Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106 point. We have a special interview at this point in time, second anniversary of the pariah pipeline tragedy. Yesterday, several events were held. There was one in Cuva. And the, the relatives of the men who died at the Soul survivor and other stakeholders, they were there.
Joining us this morning, we welcome to our program to speak to us a bit of what's been going on and what is going on, what's expected to come and all that we have. The government has this report that was compiled by the commissioner of inquiry and all those other things. Let's welcome to our program the wife of Rishi Nagesa. He's one of the divers who perished in this tragedy. Let's welcome to our program. Vanessa Kusi. Good morning to you. Welcome to our program.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: Hi. Pleasant good morning to you as well.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: Nice to have you with us this morning. I'm speaking to Councillor Kusi. I'm correct, right?
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Yes, you're Vanessa.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: So some positives have happened in the past two years.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:01:16] Speaker A: I would say it's my pleasure to have you on. And yes, it's good to have you on, but I would have preferred that these things never have happened. But that's water under the bridge now. We can hope as much as we want, but it is a reality, and it's a reality for the nation that looked on, but it's a different reality for you and for the others like you all who experienced it firsthand.
I can't remember if we ever had the opportunity to speak. I don't think so. But no, I'd like very much for us to go back before we go forward.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Okay, no problem.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: I can't begin to imagine at all what you and your loved ones and the others would have gone through having to experience something like this.
The loss itself of a loved one is a traumatic experience.
Losing someone under the circumstances under which you and your loved ones did is. It's magnifying it a thousand times.
What has life been like for you all since this tragedy? How have you been coping? Have the children been coping? What's been going on?
[00:02:33] Speaker B: Well, just to begin, since the tragedy had happened, I don't know how far back you want me to go, but you did ask the question, and I'm going to reply, yes, our lives have changed drastically, and not only on myself, but my whole family. My family, meaning my neighbors, my very close friends, my children, everybody, because our home is like an open house for everybody.
Everybody will just walk in, anyone.
And they always know Venny they call me Venny home, by the way, Vanessa. So our home is like, everybody will come in when something to eat, you get it to eat. And this is where Brian had picked up this when he come by me.
And we started living together since we met, like 13 years back. So he was like, this is the way our family operates. And I was like, yeah, this is how we are. He says, like, everybody comes home by you? I said, yes, this is how it is. So he adapted from my home. So the life I had before and the life I have now, it is two big difference in living.
Our home is not the same.
The happiness is not there.
You can come in my home now and you would feel that distance between everybody. It's like we there, and if we have to say something, we'll just say it.
We need something for the house. Somebody will go get it. My sons, my elder sons, we do not have this sit down and talk anymore like we used to have because somebody will break down.
The living we have now is like, I don't want to dwell on anything too much, but it's very difficult and hard as a single parent to run a, it's very hard when you have to face the groceries and you have to face bills and you have to face every single thing. Because Nashik at that time, he was just a year and a few months, and he was now talking and you can understand the words that he was saying. So I do blame pariah for not allowing my husband to get to enjoy Nashik's life that God had given to us. And reason being that he always been asking me all the time for his dad and where his dad is, and he knows the accident that had happened. But we are all parents. We try to protect our children. We do not tell them because he's a tender age and he will not understand. Exactly. Because I try to bring him up the right way, the correct way.
And your topic before. Yes. If I was listening to your topic and your topic about the school, yes. And I tried to bring Nashik up in a very decent way possible. So I do not want anybody harming know? And every time something wrong, like he get injured or he gets something, he fall. This different love you have for your child.
[00:06:18] Speaker A: I assume not because of what happened, maybe overcompensate is the wrong word, but your attention to him is going to be magnified because you believe he did.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: I will not take him off my eyes. I will not send him anywhere. The only place he will get to go is by my sister's home because she's like his second mom.
When the tragedy had happened, my sister, well, forgive me, but I do not know half of the things that happened there. Like after the accident, all who came to look for me, all who called me, there were people throughout the world trying to talk to me and I did speak with everybody. But tell me now, I will not remember because there was so much. Hundreds, hundreds of people were calling. And these few months, my sister had taken the role of her mother. She had taken Nashik at her home because the theatre was that I could not recall myself holding him, trying to be with him. And all the time because I was like at pariah trying to fight for my husband and the rest of the divers, I were doing so much. And then my sister said, she's going to take him. She took him for three months at her home and she nursed him as well. And this is something that you don't forget. You don't forget the people who are close to you. And this is a time that we had reached out to the government, reach out to pario officials, and neither of them came to help the families. And it's sad being a two year anniversary yesterday. And I know that they were looking on and they always do, but it is very sad that they did not come forth and say, well, okay, we are going to really meet with the families. They probably say it on air for the people of the nation to hear.
Yes, he said he's going to meet the family. The government is going to meet. The prime minister is going to meet the family.
But no, no phone call as yet. So it's just a word of mouth.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: Okay?
[00:08:31] Speaker B: And that is all they had done since the accident. They were just talking, talking, no action, nothing but in their right mind, well, point guns at people who are willing to save lives. And this is something and a question I've been always questioning myself. People save cats and dogs throughout the world and our country. They choose to point guns. Who instructed the coast guard to point guns as medic willing to go down and the very same pipe they are custom working with. And they stop men from saving life.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: You know what.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: Hurts me a lot now is that seeing my husband on the 7th day when he came out from the pipeline, they flushed him out. And I was like praying to God that, please don't bring out Ryan in bits and pieces. And I was begging God on my knees, do not bring him out. I do not want my children see him like this. And I don't want to see him like this because he left for work, not to die, but to work and make honest dollar to bring home. And this is what we have to live for.
That particular day that I had to go and view his body, and I saw this man, this man who I know. And this really hurts because you're looking at somebody who you're thinking, well, he probably died. As they said, they die so long ago. And I am looking at this man who is my husband, and he's looking like if he's sleeping and you just take some water and you just throw it on him and he's wet. And he had no oil. No oil in him, so on his clothing, nothing. He didn't have any oil on him. So this leaves me to think, where was Ryan?
Where was Ryan? If Ryan was in that same pipeline and that same oil, why did not he come out with oil like the know, the other tree? And he came out just as. And sorry to say, they flushed him out the pipeline alive. That is the only thing you have in your mind, because how can. If he was in the same pipeline with the others, right? And all these men working in that same pipeline, how could they acknowledge the first three had died, right? And I had went because one of the guy they mistaken for Orion because Ryan is a dark person. So they mistook him first, and then they were, like, swollen three times their body. So it was like, vanessa, you need to go and see. And they give me strength to go look at this person, to see Ryan. So when I had seen this diver and I had known that it was not my husband, there's a reason why I look back at so many days had passed knowing that if Ryan had died, he would be in a worse.
Like in the other diver I saw.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: Okay, I want to stop you there because those issues that you're getting into, I want to come back to later on in the interview.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: Okay, no problem.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: Because you're getting there. Some nitty gritty details there that we will deal with, but a little later on.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: I'm assuming from all that we saw, there's a sense of injustice that you would have felt when this took place and. Or how it was handled since then. And with the inquiry submitting its report, having done all the sittings and the hearings and whatever else, and producing this 200 and something page document which the king's council, Jerome lynch, spoke to us about and gave us his opinion and everything else, do you feel any sort of justice with that entire process that took place with the inquiry and the investigation and the report being submitted?
[00:12:51] Speaker B: The commission of inquiry, I will not say it's a waste of time because the world needs to know what really happened. And being as the final report came out and people are aware that, yes, there was an accident and yes, no one did save the divers. They left them there to die. Yes, it's a big impact on the family. And I think the people of our country, I think they failed us as well. They did not come out to support us in any way because carnival were high on swing and nobody, well, it was only like the few who were there at the site. And then when the media had known that what this big accident had taken place and then they didn't know, the divers did not came out yet.
At that time. To be in like a few months after I was like, this country is really in a bad state because in another country every single person who were working at a company and an accident take place, everything needs to shut down. Pariah still went on, continued do their work. They had big ships coming in, doing whatever they were doing. They know exactly what they were doing. Big ships coming in, doing their normal routine. And these men were down pounding the pipeline, screaming for help. And they sent no one to help them.
So this is very unjust for the families of the divers. It is very heartbroken for the divers. And I'm very much sorry to say I'm a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: Do you think this report that was compiled by the commission of inquiry is going to bring about the justice that you think you and others deserve?
[00:14:44] Speaker B: My lawyer? Certain things I cannot say. But yes, we are going forward.
But whatever we have as our proofs and whatever documents that we have to put forward at the faults of Pariah, we are going head forth. If they do not come and have a chat with the families, I don't want to use certain words.
Meet the families.
This whole thing can be resolved.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: Okay, let's talk time frames. Because the report has been submitted, the prime minister said that it has gone to cabinet. And there are certain things, certain things need to happen. But what time are you all giving Paria and the government and everybody else before you act? Six months, a year, five months, a day, a week? What?
[00:15:43] Speaker B: We are going to act as soon as possible.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: And what would that action look like? What are you.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: We are going to face court. If that leads the way, we are going to face court. We have enough evidence to face barrier.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: What would you be seeking when you go to court?
[00:16:04] Speaker B: I want justice. Justice means me. They have to compensate the families, at least for life, because they had left me and my children without our breadwinner. How do I expect them to live just like that? Just know we are not beggars. My husband didn't went there to die. They left them there to die. It was an act of man, not an act of God, as Mr. Lynch had said.
Those words speaks volume I remember looking.
[00:16:41] Speaker A: At the press conference where the king's council, Jerome lynch, commission chair, spoke. And it's very rare. I listened to a lot of press conferences, and it's very rare that I actually listened to an entire press conference, or at least the statements being uttered by speakers. And when you listened to what Jerome lynch had to say to us as a nation, you can tell that this job that he performed impacted on him personally.
And I'll tell you, because I was looking at some of the sittings while the commission was having its hearings and so on. The entire nation, as much as you may think that the entire nation did not, maybe they didn't act the way that they should have in the numbers that they probably should have, but this incident impacted people that you will never meet in a manner that you may not understand. I know people who sat and cried while this was taking place. People who were totally unrelated to the divers and their families would never meet them, probably have never met them. And people are still traumatized to this day.
What was the response from people? And to this day, do people still offer support?
[00:17:58] Speaker B: People still call me. Up to yesterday, people were calling me.
They know it was a two year anniversary. And I had a lot of phone calls, a lot I could not answer because I had memories in my own little moment yesterday. Really bring back this Black Friday. As I would say, it really was sad.
I did our normal routine. I go to the temple, and after the temple, I went to his gravesite. After the gravesite.
He loves the ocean. We always at the sea all the time. I did went to the sea also. I did offer flowers, come home, cook. And then I went back to, as they call it, sugar park, pleasant Park. We did candle visual there, and we had a little ceremony there as well for the divers. And I saw tears on every single person eyes. And this route, really heartbreaking.
People still were still calling us all that time. People were still calling, lending support, sending their love. I have many phone calls from the states as well. From the beginning. Yes, a few people had sent money to buy pampers and milk for baby Nashik because they were following our story. They know exactly how. It's a big struggle for the families as well. When they send for me, they would ask if I would send for the other families, and I did the same as well.
Christopher. A lot of them had called Christopher.
Christopher had. Well, we were in contact with each other. So whoever called Christopher, yes, he did the same as well as myself.
And yes, we did try and help all the families who we could as possible. But it is very sad. We didn't get much help here from our own pariah and our own government. While they were always trying to help other people, other countries. It is very sad they can't help their own people in our own country.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: You've been forced to move on a bit with your life because life goes on.
Life does not stop. And you have children. You have those under you that you need to take care of and you need to move on. Moving on does not necessarily. Moving on means. And for you, I'm positive. And for these people involved in this, you will never be able to forget. We'll be speaking about for a long period of time, but you have been able to get some elements of your life moving forward.
Let's talk a bit about your.
I assume it's your entrance into politics.
Given all the challenges that you would have been facing at the point in time, emotionally, financially and otherwise.
What made you decide that you want to get in politics and become a counselor?
[00:21:12] Speaker B: Okay, this has to take me back to when the tragedy happened. Okay, this is my answer to you. When the tragedy happened and I had went to Pariah.
Well, the first day I was seeing a lot of people coming at Paria when they're here from the surrounding areas, that is, before would reach at the other throughout Trinidad.
And the people there who was coming to support me was people. I didn't look at it then like how I'm looking at it now. But yes, they were mostly the people from the UNC. And I didn't even know some of the counselors.
Most of the counselors, I knew the mps, and immediately I saw all of them there.
My uncle, who is a counselor as well, he was there with me from the very beginning because he was the first person I had called. So when we went up to Pariah, he was there. He was asking all the questions because I fall at my knees when I reach at Paria, seeing my husband's van, and I cannot go, even hold that van, touch that, know. It's really sad. Only when it takes your home, you feel that pain. And it's really sad that they had all the time said, there's no accident happened. They're not aware of any accidents happened at Paria. This is a security word. I asked them to speak with somebody from the pariah officials, the office. I need to talk to somebody, the secretary at least. They said they have no phone numbers to give me. How could you? So they were lying from the very start.
And this is the people I saw coming in at Pariah. When we did get to going into Pariah car park, they were actually at my truth. They were calling me all the time, telling me they don't want me there, keep go home. And when they get word that my husband, well, they are trying to do their best, which I know they were lying at the very start. They was not doing anything. They were just leaving them there to die. And I said, no, I'm not leaving. And you have to take me off from here. I'm not leaving. The only way I'm leaving to go, take me where my husband is. If you want me to put on top of the pipeline, I want to knock the same way he's knocking and let him know I am outside waiting for him.
So this is the people I saw at Paria. Only there were, yes, some people from the PNM as well. I cannot say because I cannot say. But there were some people from the PNM as well, if you want to it in a political way. But at that time it was not no UNC and no PNM or anything. It was just the people who cared for lives that has been there left to die.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: Okay, Ms. Kusia, I need to caution you a bit. Because if you are intending on going on the road of legal action, there are some things that you really shouldn't say about who's responsible and all those kinds of things. Because it could prejudice any matters that to come. I know I'm putting that there because I don't want you to go down a road of outright on the radio accusing this one and that one the next of doing things. And somewhere down the road somebody called me to testify and say, well, she accused this one without having evidence.
It's not about calling the name, you're talking about the organization. And I just want you to be safe. Because the last thing I would want is that any matter that to go before the courts would have some loophole in it that does not see you getting what you think you deserve. But taking me to the point of what you deserve, this is a matter.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: This is a matter people that came out even though at my home.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: I'm not bringing the UNC, I'm not bringing the PNM, I'm not talking politics because once you start to talk politics, you devalue the issue. And the issue here is getting justice and compensation for the families.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: And that is all we are looking forward to.
[00:25:36] Speaker A: But that brings me to my next question.
What is going to satisfy you and the others? The prime minister can in one fell to deal with this matter, have a discussion with you all and say, well, listen, this is what I think should happen, but what are you looking to get out of it? Can you put a dollar value for me as to what would satisfy you and the others?
[00:25:56] Speaker B: I will not say that on a, as well because I know a lot of people on lockdown and listening as well.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: But apart from monetary, apart from monetary.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: You had asked me a question and the question was, why did I come out into the politics? Being a counselor now. And that was my answer. And then you had said that you don't want a political politician like any other way. But what I'm saying is the people who came at my home, I know who they were when that time reached. And I knew exactly what I had to do. And this is the choice that I took. And I know I had made the right choice and they were the ones who were there for me from the very start.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: So I don't want to put it into any way, my intention, make it very clear that in any way racial or any way political or anywhere separating people. No, I'm not that person.
[00:27:02] Speaker A: Well, my intention of asking you, Ms. Kusi, the intention of asking you why you would want to get into politics was not about UNC and PNM and who you side your own and all that kind of thing. Getting into politics is a big decision for anyone, somebody who was going through the kind of emotional stress and trauma that you would have been going through.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: I know the struggles of a single parent and a lot of people who are single, not mothers alone, they were fathers as well. A lot of fathers are single parents. And they came at my home and they were like asking me certain questions and they were telling me, Gail, you need to do something. Gail, you need to go. And this is something that, this is the reason why I took this opportunity up. I took it because it was to help.
Can everybody just come home by my house? It don't even have to be my people. It could be anybody. And I do try to help each and everyone.
[00:27:58] Speaker A: Okay, now we're actually also time for the interview, but I go back to a question that I'd asked you before.
The nation is looking on as well as to what's happening. And there are people who I am positive in the 08:00 always going to, they're going to call me, we're going to speak about this and they'll speak about the injustice and what they think needs to happen and so on. But do you have a time frame or are you all just sitting and waiting until the government acts before you all act? Or are you saying, well, listen, the government, if it take too long, we're giving you two months with this thing, a month with this thing. And if we see no action in a month or six months or whatever, we are going to pursue you. Do you have a time frame like that in mind?
[00:28:39] Speaker B: No, my lawyer, according to my lawyer, we are going to act, as I said, very soon.
[00:28:44] Speaker A: Okay.
The second anniversary was yesterday, and the entire nation, some people may have forgotten. Some people. For them, it was not high on the agenda. Back at the time when it was taking place, there were people who were glued to their devices.
[00:29:01] Speaker B: People still see me and cry, moving forward. People don't even know me and they just see me and they just got.
[00:29:07] Speaker A: To cry moving forward.
You said that you did not necessarily see the kind of support that you expected moving forward. What kind of support would you like to see from the population?
[00:29:19] Speaker B: I think that the people need to voice to come out and when it has certain.
Okay, put it back into. There are so many murders and we do not see that people come out. They just say, oh, yeah, someone died, somebody killed somebody. And we just sit down there and we just feel sorry and sorry. We do not come out and act. And this is something that our country, that we just sit down. We just sit down with everything that goes by. If gas goes up. Yeah, well, you know, it's a $2 more. We just have to pay what we'll do. But they do not protest for anything. They just sit back and we just let it. It's just a nine day talk as we trainees do.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: Yes, we're going to have to leave our interview. Thank you for being with us here this morning. And we will as a nation continue to track what's going on with this matter. Because as I said for you, while some people did not personally lose, very.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: Hurtful to know that our country has reached this far and it takes you back that no one is coming out to help the families, meaning the divers of the families. And I would really like that they try and do it as quickly as possible. We need justice for our husband. We heard their voices and they were very much alive. The world heard their voices.
[00:30:41] Speaker A: We have to leave our interview I'm sorry, but we do have some commercials. I want to thank you for being with us here this morning. And of course, we will keep in touch with you as we move forward and continue to map what's going on. The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio freedom 106.5.
