BEYOND THE BUDGET

[00:00:00] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio freedom 106.5. All right, I think I found your microphone. Yeah, as you there. All right, good. So I already know yours. So we good any place. Good morning Mikhail. How are you doing this morning buddy? [00:00:16] Speaker B: Hi, good day. Mr. Davey Murray, the senior one in the business. I mean it's a pleasure to be on the morning rumble. I mean in a different dispensation I was there where he was grilling me about 100 days in crime and then we were upstairs. But now in the capacity as a, as a friend and not a foe. I look forward for this discussion this morning. And good morning to TNT and your listeners. I know your list of base is very large and I'm looking forward for this discussion on the pre budget to see what is in store for us today. [00:00:44] Speaker A: First to begin with, let's discuss very briefly a budget wish list. One that we can say is realistic in the true essence of the word. But just before we get to that, let's open the lines quickly before we dive inside because it's going to be serious this morning. [00:01:01] Speaker C: Hello, good morning, good morning DV and good morning to you. [00:01:04] Speaker A: We're going to hold you to two minutes this morning. Good morning. [00:01:09] Speaker D: All right. [00:01:10] Speaker C: Good morning to Trinidad and Tobago. Today is budget day and my budget wish list is that the minister would try and concentrate less on the people who have salaries and think about those who does not. And he can do that by ensuring, like in the area of national security, scrape something from it and use that in order to create jobs that would add to the gdp. There are many such ideas that you can create jobs that would add to the GDP and those jobs are going to be sustainable jobs because at the end of the day when there are no jobs, especially for the small man out there, the doubles man suffer, the roti ladies suffer, the mini mats suffer. The suffering is just all over. So he has to have a, he has to have a design that does that. One of the things that struck me last evening, I listened to former Minister Bo Terrari stating, well, we have to find a way to fix the bir. Well, he was there a very long time ago. It's since 2009, Mr. Manning has seen that the BIR is a major mess. And if you did not change the way in which you do things, they will keep running rings around you. Because we must admit that within the public service there are criminals who are stealing the public's money. [00:02:34] Speaker A: I thank you very much, Eric, I appreciate it. I did say two Minutes. All right. I appreciate that this morning and going down that rhetoric this morning does not augur well for the direction in which I want to go. You sort of take me on a history lesson for no apparent reason. I'm all right. Good morning. Quickly. Good morning. Hello. [00:02:53] Speaker C: Good morning, Mr. Davey. [00:02:54] Speaker E: Good morning. [00:02:56] Speaker A: Good morning. [00:02:56] Speaker C: I just want to make a quick two minute response to Central. [00:03:01] Speaker A: Could you load on your radio please? [00:03:03] Speaker C: Sure. [00:03:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:11] Speaker C: Right, so to make it clear, first of all, this is Javier from Takarigua. I do not. I'm not a fan of ketchup. I'm not a fan of mustard. Pepper. Yeah. The social jobs versus the sustainable jobs. Mr. Carney. Central has to take into consideration that the people in European and CPEC are not well educated people. And I could say that with a certain level of confidence to get into KFC and this from the 2000s is three trio levels at least. KFC to get into the bank in the early 2000s it used to be five O levels at least. Now is a degree to get into the bank. Entry level. Entry level. So if Jane Paul and Harry apply for the job, it doesn't mean any one of them going to get, I suppose the person with better qualification, they still have to do a back test and so. So you have to take into consideration sustainable. Yeah, but livelihood. That is why they have these social jobs. Thank you. [00:04:17] Speaker A: All right, thank you very much for your contribution. And I mean with the uneducated factors for those grass cutters, as the Prime Minister put it to the CPE workers, maybe, maybe less academically inclined individuals. I will go with that. But you are correct, the chicken and chips place was three O levels. Three O levels and the banking sector five. Now everybody have that more or less. Mikhail, good morning. Before we get to our guest, welcome again your thoughts. [00:04:51] Speaker B: I really want to get into the conversation to hear the procurement specialist in terms of what is he looking forward for within the budget. While I understand what the caller is saying in terms of he like pepper. He did like ketchup and mustard. I really do want to get into the conversation to hear what our Gen Zsa. [00:05:09] Speaker A: And this is where we're going this morning. Good morning to you, sir. Welcome to the program. [00:05:12] Speaker D: Good morning and thank you for having me. Davey and Mikael, good morning to Trinidad and Tobago. I must commend you, Davey, on being able to wake up this early and come to this show every day. It was a challenge, but we come to speak serious business. [00:05:28] Speaker A: I appreciate that. I mean I didn't think I could have done it either. I used to watch those in the morning and especially on television. My good colleague there, my good friend jw, he does it. It's not an easy stretch, but you did it and I thank you for it. As a procurement specialist, you know, you would have had a chance to pay attention to budgets of the past in the most recent past as well. Now we are set again. We are hours away from a new installation of a fiscal package being produced by this government. Your thoughts on the previous one, especially as it deals with procurement processes and what we see happen in Parliament just recently. You know, one wonders why would we interfere with something they say don't fix it unless it's broken. Right, let's get to your thoughts from a Gen Z perspective. [00:06:15] Speaker D: Okay. I believe that we not only need to look at the previous budget, but budgets before and in recent times our budget has solely been focused on making more money. Right? But Trinidad and Tobago has in recent history been recorded as a country with a shrinking budget. [00:06:38] Speaker C: Right. [00:06:38] Speaker D: Or shrinking economy. And I believe that we need to focus on the money that we have. Right? And in doing that, we need the opr, we need the Procurement act and we need to focus on how the money is being spent. Right? Easy example of this is that when your household, the income in your household may be shrinking, you will be more focused on how your money is being spent. Yes, you would be looking for investments, but you will need to consider how you would save money. But this is not me saying that saving money just means closing programs, but just being strategic about the way that we are spending. [00:07:16] Speaker A: I love that approach. Does the word diversify comes into play for a shrinking economy or an economy where for the layman to understand we are simply losing money or the expenditure, the output, what we spend does not match what we are earning. Can we start to look at diversification? [00:07:37] Speaker D: That's a funny, that's a funny concept for me, right? Because from since I was in secondary school, I've been hearing the conversation about diversifying the economy. You always end that conversation. And it has been a bit of empty promises by budget after budget where you would hear plans of diversifying economy. But I believe in this budget and I would hope that in this budget we would actually see strategic, strategic ideas on how we're going to diversify the economy as well. As, as I said, more focus needs to be put on how we are spending the money. [00:08:13] Speaker A: But you're like knit to a household and you said if you're losing income or your income is shrinking, one has to not just simply close programs or get Rid of stuff to save money. But if you go back to the. Because the budget, a lot of our listenership, not just in freedom, but in general may not understand, you know, the gross domestic product, how we need to ascertain GDP as it relates to the index, especially coming into our budget. We have been functioning on a deficit budget since Manning era because heavy investment went into the waterfront projects and all these things with a sustainable plan going forward that would have seen us somewhere in 2020 getting a relief. We still tightening the belt. We still looking at a long winded month approach, systematic play where we can then start to receive money, which is the gas and all these things. Late 2027, a projection that came from the former prime minister of this country. Now, when we look at diversifying, even in your household, you said you've been hearing about it for a while. How does a house, and I want to take you from there in the procurement process, how does the head of a home, whether it be mom or the dad, navigate challenges in terms of diversifying ways of income to supplement for what is being lost? [00:09:28] Speaker D: Okay, well, what you would see in homes and we could look at Covid, for example. Covid would have built a lot of entrepreneurs and you would see parents in the, in their household and just families on the whole where they would use skills that they would have had. An example that I had in my, in my home was that my grandma, she used to produce wines. So what we did is that we [00:09:51] Speaker B: would have beautiful wines right here and [00:09:53] Speaker A: then bring a bottle now. [00:09:54] Speaker D: Well, next time Davy will get you tomorrow. So what we, what we would have done is we would have take the same skills that my grandma would have had and I would have used the social media platform and what we have in our generation to sell these wines. So I think is a, is a good way that we as a country need to start looking at the skills within our society and try to, you know, export those skills. [00:10:21] Speaker B: And I want to tie in procurement because that's what your designation says under. When we speak about colleague Vincent and procurement, and it's only within the recent years, procurement has become an act and then it became implemented. And if you can recall, there's a point in time when every company, state, agency or private sector, they were looking for procurement personnel. Because this act requires you to operate this particular way. You are the specialist within the room at this point in time. What are you looking forward for within on the backdrop of what took place with the procurement and its teeth and its powers, what do you expect to see in this budget, I would expect [00:11:01] Speaker D: to see in this budget every focus, as I said, on the way that we're going to spend the money because procurement is not just producing rare tape, procurement is also planning the way that money is spent. So before the, before the fiscal year starts. Right. The OPR would have had it before where public bodies would have had to provide an annual procurement schedule. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:26] Speaker D: Right. And in that way, not only the citizens, but the body itself would understand the way that money is being spent. You would have an estimate of how money is being spent. And that way, at the end of the fiscal year, you will know what projects you would have put in place and how it will affect the people. So for in this budget here, I would like to see and continue seeing a plan on how we're going to invest in the country as well as provide the services that citizens need. [00:11:56] Speaker B: Do you share the same view that if you are, as you said, in terms of a household, you have to save and also invest because the economy is shrinking, do you believe that the OPR in its previous life form would have assisted in terms of making sure that procedures and things was done properly for money to be spent well, or the removal of those safeguards, so to speak loosely, puts us in a different direction. [00:12:24] Speaker D: Yeah, the removal of those safeguards put us in a dangerous spot. Why is we need to have some form of auditing, we need to have some form of watchdogs in terms of the way that money is spent. Right. A public body puts out a tender, A public body puts out a plan on the way that money is being spent. And we need to have a overseeing body stating that, you know, we watching the way that money is spent and we also making sure that these projects are being fulfilled years after years. We have budgets where it would have had a plan, they would have had a plan for housing. And then you would, you would see two years after those houses, it wasn't continued, it wasn't completed. And those are things that the OPR are important for as well. [00:13:12] Speaker A: When we look at the, as you mentioned, the OPR and the challenges with this new infrastructure and this bill. All right, you mentioned it, good and bad. Let's look, let's dig a little deeper into it. You are the procurement specialist. When one is procuring something in terms of resources, whether it be materials or services, what should that look like? [00:13:38] Speaker D: Okay. A lot of people think that procurement starts at the tender process, but it actually starts with identifying the needs. So, you know, in our country where we have, I like to look at housing when it comes to this, people tend to understand what matters to them most. Right. We need to understand the needs of our citizens. So in Trinidad and Tobago, it is actually challenging for a young person to become a homeowner. So understanding that need, we would need to procure houses that are low income houses, as they would say, houses that young people can afford. Right. So after understanding that need, you will then put out the project, you will have it tendered, you will have companies bid. And a very important part of the process is the value valuation of these tenders. We're not just selecting a company at random. Right. But we selecting the best value for money. That's a very important thing actually coming out of this budget. We need to ensure that this budget and the projects that we take on provide the best value of money. We don't have, you know, an unlimited resource when it comes to money. So we need to focus on that. [00:14:47] Speaker A: On the front, on page three, five this morning, the budget is taking to prioritize productive citizens and maintain economic growth. Housing is also part of that. You mentioned that for the average young person, when we take a look at who is financially vulnerable in this country as opposed to the lower income, we start looking at 7,500 as financially vulnerable. Vulnerable. Our ceiling for taxes range at that. Well, that seven, five. It's the, it's the benchmark. Anything beyond that, you get to pay as you earn. Lower income bracket is now ranging between 75 and $12,000, which takes you roughly around 144,000, between 90 and 144,000 annually. And then you have the lower middle. So they're still on the lower end of 12,000 to $20,000. Those are considered low middle. Before that used to be a kind of middle base. [00:15:47] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:15:48] Speaker A: Now it's not. You talk about understanding the need. And you mentioned young people. Housing is the furthest reach. [00:15:55] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:15:56] Speaker A: Unless your father dared and leave something fair that's far off the bench for you. Then how? And then when we look at building sustainable houses, lower income houses, how can government spend when their materials are currently at a figure that they must sell at a profit? This is not a charity organization the government is running. So even if we are building houses that are affordable to those, what exactly can one say we could build given the fact that these materials, the cost factor is up in the sky? [00:16:27] Speaker D: Well, Devi, you point out a very important topic here. [00:16:30] Speaker C: Right. [00:16:30] Speaker D: The government is not meant to spoon feed citizens. Right. And we understand that. So in providing home households, we need to look at the income of the citizens as well. But in doing so, it doesn't mean that, you know, you're just going to match the income that is currently there. But the government, the government and all the other stakeholders involved, they need to look at actually investing in the people of the country. And that doesn't mean just providing them with a higher salary, but it also means providing them with skills. It also means providing them with education. We need to give youth the hope, you know, the hope that they can, they can not only earn a job, but they can get skills to provide for entrepreneurship. [00:17:14] Speaker B: But gentlemen, I want to say something that has been happening for years as well. When it comes to the Housing Development Corporation, most persons, most governments will tell you on their camping trail, we are building affordable homes for young people, young professionals, and for families who can't afford it on the open market. Based on what Davey Points is saying is that, yes, we understand, we cannot afford to sell you this like if without a markup. But even with this idea of selling you the homes with and saying it's affordable for you, when I go to this corporation to get the home I am, my pocket cannot reach there. So you are telling us in one budget and this has happened across the floors, across the floors. Young professionals are only young professional. Go to the, to the Financial Institute, the financial institution to tell them, well, I want to get a home. They sit there asking you where your [00:18:07] Speaker F: partner [00:18:10] Speaker B: really and truly the same. You cannot afford to pay for the home. Buy yourself with your income. While you would have gone to the polls and say, I am voting for this government because, hey, they told me affordable homes for young professionals. I have benefited from gate. I have benefited from the skills and the programs they put forward. And now I want my house. That is something I think government has to navigate to ensure that, hey, all right, if you, if you're a young professional, I'm saying I can guarantee your home, but I'm putting measures in place to ensure that if we go back to the system, and this is me talking loosely to your end, to own where it is reasonable for you to finish pay for it. Because you are now a young professional with life ahead of you. So if a mortgage lasts 30 years, the government could go into that contract with you through their corporation of referring to the housing corporation and say, young professional, you have confidence in you. You have a beneficiary of GATE now, hey, let me help you in this regard. And they will see that cash flow going on. [00:19:14] Speaker A: I don't want you to just use GATE as your benchmark and are coming back And I'll tell you why, because not every young professional would have benefited through gate, would have gone through that. So I don't want it to seem as though we are only giving it to those who went through that process. Now, tying right back to your procurement understanding, first the need, if we understand where the problem exists, we need a markup. We are not a charitable organization. Then can we look at the materials before, as we get to the understanding the needs, do we look at a sustainable way in getting cost effective materials to build these homes where the young professional can start their journey? [00:19:53] Speaker D: Yeah, that's a big part of procurement as well. In terms of the way that the materials are sourced. I believe that they need to have more focus in terms of actually the bidding process. And not only that, actually going within the scope of works of these companies who would have bid. A lot of times you may see an awardee of a contract and you question if it is a government friend or something like that. And those things take away from actually providing for the value of money. If it is that the public, and not only the public, but we have the use of the OPR actually going within these organizations and seeing how these projects were bid for as well as awarded, we will see where the companies they are awarding based on the best value for money. So instead of purchasing a block for $20, they will actually be going with a supplier that's giving it for let's say $15. [00:20:52] Speaker A: But how is the supplier able to give it to you for that price when they themselves are facing it at the VAT counter? Because these taxes are there, they pay tax they pay for their raw materials is government. And government makes money on that back end. So making money on that back end, circulating the finances of the country and then again procuring these materials from said institutions, passing on or the contractor having to do that and the contractor says to the government, listen, as much as we want to give these low income homes, unless we put in one bedroom, one kitchen, one toilet and a bath and a living room, we give you a box and you allow the young homeowner to expand on it, that that's the only way I'm seeing it sustainable. But then would it be attractive to you as a young person to buy a home that carries one bedroom when you want to start a family? But that's what is affordable because that's where the materials could reach. Yeah, to match an income of 75 to $12,000 a month. [00:21:50] Speaker D: Well, the thing about it is everything should not be seen in a stagnant way Devi. Right. So what the government could do as well is provide a supplier relationship with these suppliers. So instead of, let's say that the supplier is providing these blocks and the suppliers providing all these building material, the government could come at an arrangement on a deal where VAT is not included on these items. Because we understand that the society has a need and we want to provide that need. [00:22:18] Speaker A: Let me take a. Before you get to your point there, let's take a listen quickly. [00:22:22] Speaker C: I think one of the major contributors to the high cost of building in Trinidad is, is unreasonable building codes that seem to make housing here over engineered in some way. You know, if you look at the method of construction of the average K block home, you will see that the load bearing walls and the external walls are built exactly the same way as the internal walls that don't carry any load. And that is over engineering that is more than is necessary. And you know, we really have to [00:22:49] Speaker E: fix things in such a way that [00:22:51] Speaker C: you could get functional safe homes without having to pay for so much extra material, so much extra, you know, because, because town and country engineers have put it that in order for you to pass an inspection you have to have all this, you gotta have a piece of steel every three feet and you have all kind of nonsense that's not necessary for a home to be safe. I don't understand, I don't know if you guys get what I'm saying, but I, I think that we had a look at cost effective methods of construction, you know, where you're not over engineering the homes but making homes that are functional and can serve a family. Well, [00:23:27] Speaker D: I understand the caller's point, but we also need to study safety and then the actual sustainability of these households. So you're not just going to provide a home and you know, you want to provide a low income house and in 10 years, you know, the household, we have to be considerate and we have to study that these are homes that these same young persons, they may want to pass it down to the, you know, their next generation. So you're not just going to provide a low income house. And as I said, In 10 years the house blow away or hurricane pass and that's it for the house. We still need to provide sustainable resources for our citizens. [00:24:09] Speaker B: Even on that point. Vincent, there was a point in time when there was a program, David, called the Age VIP program. Remember that program, Age vip, [00:24:19] Speaker A: the Housing and Village program? Yeah, I thought you said aged, but [00:24:23] Speaker B: Age vip and they were building homes for persons who were considered squatters. But they were in, on the land for over a decade or 16 years and more. And that was a big thing because people who are on the vulnerable spectrum were getting homes built by the government. And afterwards, if you go back by some of those homes, you see expansion. Who went up, who went to the left, who went to the right to add on something? And that's after your point and I'm going to pose a question to Mr. Vincent afterwards. In terms of you said if the government could afford to build a one bedroom for a young professional, you add a factor of saying if the, if the wrong professional want to start a family, hello, the government responsibility is not to provide for you forever, but if I'm to give you a start with a one bedroom, which, which, which requires you to go before an institution and you get this mortgage within your name, it is within your name, then you build from there. It is to give people a start. So I would, I wouldn't mind if I had the opportunity to say, well, look at one bedroom. I will work like Davy, get up in the morning, be traffic, God is good and get my own home and build from there. But in a Gen Z perspective, click. When you look at procurement, I'm glad [00:25:44] Speaker A: you mentioned that because that's where I was coming into Titan. You know, when we look at the, at the Gen Z's, we looking at the late 1990s, coming in to the earlier part of 2000s, which takes things as far as 2012. How do we get the Gen Z's now to appreciate the budget, understand the context of it and how it applies to their lives? [00:26:04] Speaker D: Well, who are touching on first? [00:26:07] Speaker B: Touching. [00:26:08] Speaker G: Okay. [00:26:09] Speaker D: So I think a good way for the government, and not only the government, but other stakeholders need to get involved in getting young persons interested in the budget. Right. But I think a way that we, we can look at it is getting them to understand how the budget affects them. You know, a budget is not just merely figures, but a budget also shows the focus of the government. You know, when you look at your, your life, you spend more money on the things that you are focused on. Right? So we, we need to get young persons to understand that this budget is not just, you know, 59 million or 60, 59 billion or 60 billion. This budget is also speaking on what the government is focused on. So young persons need to be concerned about their education, they need to be concerned about the skills, the programs that may be provided for them, but also just the life and the quality of life that they would be afforded. You know, a lot of times we Complain about the potholes a lot of time we complain about. Well now in recent times we complain a lot about water and all of these things. The budget affects it. The budget is the way that the government is going to spend to fix the problems that we have as well as provide sustainable development for us. [00:27:26] Speaker A: I want to give a few minutes, about three for some calls to come through. I'm giving you at least 30 seconds to make a contribution or a suggestion or even ask a question. Very quickly please. Good morning David. [00:27:40] Speaker C: Morning. Morales here. [00:27:41] Speaker A: 30 seconds here. [00:27:44] Speaker C: All right. Based on the present dimensionally what faces the country in terms of homes, the government will have to move away from that, from that whole system because even I look at the data, I mean we be the extended family. People no longer want extended families. As a young boy and a young girl get together they want their own home and we're not able as a government to provide that when they look at the data. So we need to look at a different model and remodel HC in terms of maybe giving them land and allow some form of building arrangement or assistance giving them. [00:28:14] Speaker A: All right, thank you very much fanstruck for your contributions. Very quickly, 30 seconds. Good morning. [00:28:19] Speaker C: Yes, a pleasant good morning once more, Davy. I have an issue and with several governments with regard to the town and country approvals of buildings and you touch on it and that's the reason I called many times. We build houses ourselves. The ordinary mason, the ordinary laborer put a block and so on and we have had earthquakes and they survived and the one that the engineer put up in Port of Spain and so on, they were damaged and so on. So I am saying town and country is a little too harsh on poor people. It has been so forever. And I wish that they start allowing you have five acres of land and you have children, allow you to subdivide it to give it to your children so they wouldn't have to go through the big set of loans and so on. So I hope that something will be done. I don't expect it but that is something I wanted to raise. I raised that with Mr. Pandey and I fought with him but it never happened. So we'll wait and see. [00:29:10] Speaker B: Thank you gentlemen. [00:29:15] Speaker D: I agree with the first scholar in terms of we need to look at different ideas and different avenues on how we're going to provide for persons in the country. So the example that he gave, maybe we could start looking at the housing corporation are giving out land, you know, maybe if it is that the entire home is too expensive for persons they could just give out land. The second caller, however, I think that people need to understand that there are legislation and procedures in place for reasons as he said, if the parent just decided to separate and split up the land, you still need town and country, you know, to approve the way that this land is divided in years to come. Let's say these siblings decide to fight and quarrel for land. This is something that always happens in the country. So you need to understand, we always need to understand that procedures are there in place for a reason. [00:30:13] Speaker A: And on that note, I press it too quickly. 30 seconds please. [00:30:18] Speaker C: I just wanted to comment on the honest necessary by Arima and I want to tell Arima that he might be well informed but that isn't right for society that is developing. Trinidad and Tobago is an earthquake zone. We have sometimes 100 earthquakes for the year. We do not know when we're going to get a big one. These strictures which are put in place will stop walls internally from falling on people and killing them. Just yesterday we had a major earthquake in Venezuela and major buildings just crumbled to the ground. And people wonder why they crumbled to the ground and once next to them were still standing. So we have to ensure sure proper standards are done because we never know when that they may hit us. [00:31:00] Speaker A: I thank you. I thank you. Good morning. Quickly, 30 seconds. [00:31:04] Speaker C: Yeah, good morning, Davey. I want to take this from a disability person with disability perspective. I think that the government and private partnership needs to be worked out because a lot of people who receive disability grant don't bump for it because they have. [00:31:19] Speaker A: We're not on that part of the topic as yet but thank you very much for raising the issue. Mikhail. [00:31:24] Speaker B: Yeah, there's some. There's some contribution that was made before and based on how the dynamics in this video goes my mind sometimes runs [00:31:31] Speaker A: and that's why I'm trying to keep it on track. Yeah, there. [00:31:33] Speaker B: There's a point that was made previously. I think it was about how the budget impacts Gen Z's in terms of. That's why the water. If people were complaining about that and potholes on these things and when you come to potholes and the waters and this is things that impact real people and I think we all to give every government its due kudos because balancing a country such as Trinidad and Tobago is not easy. I think the former Prime Minister well this is. Prime Minister Patrick Manning indicated that the thing that Trinidad and Tobago governance is easy but it is not. When we talk about potholes and are going home to bayou. Colleague Because I mean, while you are a specialist, you're also a citizen that lives in a community. Potholes cause shocks, it cause bearings, it costs you going to a mechanic who may tell you, come and check in two weeks. And then in two weeks you'll take 24 weeks and you see a car by some food pharmacy that you know how things go sometimes. Do you believe as, as a young person, without that type of specialist, enough focus is given to, let's just say, local government or its allocations, or you believe that we just look at, okay, 55 billion is the total, 5 billion went to education, 5 billion went to national security, and then the local government just takes a pie and that's it. [00:32:55] Speaker D: Well, I like that you raise that. And I believe, I hope, that citizens not only listen to the budget, but the standing finance committee where you actually hear the line items of how money is allocated and in terms of money being allocated to local government. From my experience in local government, I would have seen that one councillor is only given one DP project a year, right? A DP project might afford that councillor to pave one road, but in his district he have, let's say, 20 something roads with potholes. So as it stands right now, the concern has always been that local government has been underfunded. So it is my belief, and I really do hope that in this budget we see more effort being focused on local government. Because local government affects all of us. It affects the way that garbage is collected, it affects the road that we drive on, and it affects just public safety generally. And we really need to have that emphasis on local government. [00:34:00] Speaker A: The young person all the time does not understand the context of local government. That is why I met Michel for the first time maybe about two years ago, when we had that conversation in depth as best as we could to help them appreciate what local government does. Now, for me, we are looking at local government representatives that are attached to different parties. The ruling party may be in government and they would have counselors that support them. And then you have the opposing counselors. So then there is a conversation of monies and funding being expected upon you because I'm supporting you. So I'm supposed to get the creme de la creme of the pie. But then you are on the opposition side. But I still have to care about you because you represent Trinidad and Tobago. But how do we navigate and negate the biases that happens when it comes to central government and local governance with those structures in place, that current regime, that current constitution that exists allowing for opposing factions to occupy prime real estate seats in local government. Even though I am opposed to central government's ideologies, thoughts and processes. But I'm still looking for my slice of the pie. And because I know you don't like us and you're not on board, you support that next party, I tend to not pay attention. How does the Gen Zs see that where an idea to bridge that gap can come into play? [00:35:33] Speaker D: Well, that's a serious topic and it has been a concern, I believe from since 2022 as a serious concern where you would have had it being raised about local government reform, where local government should not just be afforded money by central government because we understand that it has that political bias and that central government would allocate money based on their political bias. But we need local government and we need local government representatives to have that, to have that allocations for themselves, to have that decision making for themselves. It is a challenge. I don't see where it can be navigated with the current law, but it needs some form of redress and reform for that to take place. [00:36:22] Speaker A: My fine. And I like the road you use reform. Let's get into that so I don't have to go there. My final question for you before we take a break to get to the news, is the procurement bill that was passed or that they seek to amend? Amend, Sorry to seek to amend. Left in our respected opinion loopholes because I believe accountability and all these things were already in place. What was the amendment about? To allow for more for one person to have a higher allocation when it comes to decision. So before $1, now you could do 100. How is that leaving room for corruption or corrupt practices? Given the fact that we are now about to table out a 60 point something billion dollar budget, that is a [00:37:00] Speaker D: big concern going forward in this budget here. We would have seen the OPR lose all of its teeth. We would have seen the Public Procurement act and the Disposal of Public Property act lose all its heat entirely. Where you can now have simplified procurement up to $2 million. Right. And in terms of local government, a lot of the local government projects fall below that. And the simplified procurement takes away a lot of the. Not accountability, but the way that it is managed, the way that procurement is managed, the way that OPR oversees these projects. So it allows, you know, like as they say, a floodgate to be open where projects will just be awarded. Projects may just be awarded without a proper evaluation taking place. And we as citizens need to be concerned for that. [00:37:53] Speaker A: All right, I gotta take that break. You Must thank our last guests for passing through. Though it was difficult for them to get up this morning, they understand the severity of. Even though you're a Gen Z, understand what it takes to get up and earn that bread. When the day comes, you have to make that sacrifice, boy. Mix, boy. You had to get up. You want wife and children. You understand? This is what it takes. This is what it takes. All right, as we get our turn, our attention to the morning poll question courtesy Mirage, west side supermarket in Arima and Jumbo Foods in bartaria. The first 20 of you this morning, we are looking for your answers, yes or no. Do you think this year's budget will reflect an increase to their senior citizens pension disability grants and minimum wage, things that we haven't seen risen in years? Do you think this budget will give us some relief? An increase a little bit on the senior citizens pension disability grants and minimum wage? Do you think we'll see a slight increase in those things? What are your thoughts, yes or no? The morning pool courtesy Mirage west side in Arima and Jumbo Foods in Bataria. [00:38:59] Speaker D: Expression is who we are. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Take control. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5. Speak your mind. All right. As we open the phone lines, yes or no? Hello. Good morning. [00:39:15] Speaker C: Yes. [00:39:15] Speaker A: Arima says yes. We're seeing it. Good morning. All right, Tone, you don't get a chance to vote on the WhatsApp board this morning. I am seeing starting things off. Snoops is telling me yes. And Takarigua also telling me yes. Good morning. Tony trying boy. Hello. Good morning. Trinity says no this morning. 625-2257 and 6273223. Looking back on the WhatsApp board, Monroe Road is telling me no. Good morning. [00:39:48] Speaker C: Good morning. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Penal says no. Hello. Good morning. [00:39:52] Speaker C: Hello. [00:39:54] Speaker A: Hola. Kali says yes. We getting some kind of dust. All right. Labra on the WhatsApp board is telling me no. Also Todd. Well, Todd is saying yes. We're going to get something. Hello, Good morning. [00:40:07] Speaker C: Hello. [00:40:07] Speaker E: Good morning. [00:40:08] Speaker C: Yes. Separa. Yes. [00:40:10] Speaker A: Separa says yes on the WhatsApp board. Long island says yes. The question do you think this year's budget would reflect an increase to senior citizens pension disability grants and minimum wage? I zeroed in on those three things. Only we ain't talking grocery prices, gas, nothing, those three items. And why? Because in recent budgets we did not see an increase to these things. [00:40:37] Speaker C: All right? [00:40:37] Speaker A: So I'm asking you yes or no. Good morning. Canopia is telling me no on the WhatsApp board. Sita is telling me no. Hello. Good morning. [00:40:48] Speaker C: Funerals village. Yes. [00:40:49] Speaker A: Funrose Village says yes. And bees in Grandy says no. We have the final five callers and whatsappers. Good morning. [00:41:00] Speaker C: Good morning. St. Augustine say yes. [00:41:01] Speaker A: St. Augustine telling me yes this morning. [00:41:04] Speaker C: Good. [00:41:04] Speaker A: Good morning. [00:41:05] Speaker C: Port of Spain, I hope yes. [00:41:07] Speaker A: Port of Spain says Yes. On the WhatsApp board, school bus driver says no. And Anand Taxi Service is telling me this morning a resounding no. Final call. Good morning. [00:41:20] Speaker C: Yes. Good morning. It's too early for that. Next two years we'll read that. [00:41:25] Speaker A: So your answer is no. [00:41:29] Speaker B: He's gone. [00:41:30] Speaker A: He's gone. I want an yes or no. Good morning. [00:41:33] Speaker C: Good morning [00:41:36] Speaker A: says yes. Is it Tanapuna? [00:41:37] Speaker C: Yes. [00:41:38] Speaker A: All right. Thank you very much. That concludes my official count. But I would run off the rest very quickly while I do a tally. Good morning. [00:41:44] Speaker C: Oil is a hundred a barrel. Yes. [00:41:47] Speaker A: Oil is a hundred dollars a barrel. Yes. Good morning. [00:41:49] Speaker F: Good morning, David. [00:41:51] Speaker A: Navid Village, Rio Clarity. [00:41:52] Speaker C: Yes. [00:41:53] Speaker A: Navid says yes. Princess Tongue says Yes. On the WhatsApp board, Kali Bay says no. St Julian says yes. Brazil Tal Parro say yes. What is Corial saying this morning? Corial is saying yes. Another texter from Navid Village, Rio, Claro, telling me yes. La Sluma saying what is last Summer saying no. Claxton Bay saying no. And 684 on the WhatsApp board says no. Chagona says no. And Stacy from St. Mary's says no. Good morning. Quickly. [00:42:23] Speaker F: Good morning, David. [00:42:25] Speaker A: Kirap is saying no. Kirap is saying no. Hello. Good morning. [00:42:29] Speaker C: Good morning. San Fernando west says yes. [00:42:31] Speaker A: San Fernando west says yes. Officially on the board this morning. The 20 of you, I have a split. 50% of you believe we would see an increase in those three items. Senior citizens grants so pension, disability grants and minimum wage. While another 50. 50% of you believe no. We not going to see those things. Your morning poll question brought to you with a kind compliments on Mirage, west side supermarket in Arima and Jumbo Foods in Barataria. Cindy, what are you doing home so early? [00:43:01] Speaker F: I come to meet you first to go grocery shopping and to get the kids stuff for school. Boy, I hear my co workers talking about a grocery in Arima and one in Barataria who have the best prices. Come. Let me go right now. [00:43:13] Speaker C: Oh, God. [00:43:15] Speaker B: Look at this place. [00:43:16] Speaker A: I never see a grocery like this in this country. [00:43:19] Speaker F: Darling, look at parking. Like these people only hold streets. [00:43:22] Speaker A: Look at these prices. Like everything reduced. [00:43:25] Speaker B: And unc how helpful and friendly their staff is. [00:43:29] Speaker F: You see, we get everything and still have lots of money remaining to get the kids stuff for school and also to carry them somewhere good for the vacation. If you want to save money and live better, shop at Mirage west side Supermarket in Arima or Jumbo Foods in Barataria where shopping is a pleasure. [00:43:47] Speaker A: Shake up your morning with the morning Rumble on Talk Radio Freedom 106.5. All right, 12 minutes as we await our next guest. Mikel, as our Mikhail is a host on Freedom these days. Well, now he's no longer a guest but he lives here. All right. So he has the privilege as being a co host on the morning Rumble for today briefly to give us a financial tip. [00:44:17] Speaker B: Thank you very much, Davy. And the financial tip for this morning is when you look at your salary that or your income that comes in, I will tell persons to try their best to operate on at least 85 to 90% of it while we do. Yes. Their savings also allocate a percentage towards investment because you never know what not good when a good opportunity may come and you may not want to interfere with your saving. So allocate within your budget an investment fund, even if it's just about 5% so that if somebody come and tell you they have a good opportunity to make some extra, extra money or income, you could allocate your 5% investment fund as opposed to your savings. And that is my financial tip for this morning to the Freedom 106.5 listeners. [00:45:02] Speaker A: I thank you very much. Mikhail, pay attention, pay attention. 85% of your salary might be a stretch to try and utilize a loaner if your income does not allow for you to do that comfortably and save. But it's a very, very good financial tip and I thank Mikael for it. More conversation on budget talks beyond the budget. It's coming. [00:45:35] Speaker B: All right. [00:45:35] Speaker A: Good morning and welcome Back to Freedom 106.5 FM 16 after the hour of 7:00'. [00:45:39] Speaker C: Clock. [00:45:39] Speaker A: Good morning. Our next guest is in this morning, Mikhail. [00:45:44] Speaker B: Chrisette Benjamin. Crystal. Benjamin is someone that David, the way which you said this morning when he was being very humble with you with your position that somebody could go toe to toe with you when you said that this morning and he was referring to me. [00:45:58] Speaker A: But is the fact Chris said Benjamin [00:46:00] Speaker B: is one of the persons that I will go through when it comes to. She's very, very objective and neutral. A master's degree holder. She is a strong woman's advocate. She, I mean I don't want to talk her business, but she's one of those young persons that if you look at Trinidad and Tobago, you could tell that there's hope and I really want to hear her contribution today as relates to the pre budget discussion going forward. Krista, good morning. [00:46:25] Speaker A: Good morning Krista, Good morning. [00:46:27] Speaker F: Thank you so much for the kind word Mikhail and very nice to meet you as well, at least virtually TV and good morning Tobago. It's a pleasure to give my perspective on this year's budget. [00:46:39] Speaker A: Well, let's get right into it. We're dealing with Gen Zs from the late 70s, sorry 90s, 1997 and beyond as up to 2012, 1112, somewhere thereabouts in the year 1997. I don't even remember what budget was happening. All I remember those budgets were long winded, three hours plus. I remember working in a particular newsroom and had to sit and you know, look for stories within the budget and I sat whole afternoon bored out of my mind looking at it. I don't want to see which generation I come from but when we look at the Gen Z's we're talking to youth pretty much young persons, 20s maybe as early 30s. No 20s. 20s, yeah, we reach 30s as yet you'll be 20 something 10 day depending on which year you're born. How is this budget? How do we get them, Chrisette, to be paying attention to this budget, understand the severity of it, how it impacts them long term or even in the short term. And what can the Gen Z's, what can the youth, what should they outside of education? Because that's the easy answer. Education, employment, what else can the youth truly pay attention to in this budget? [00:48:13] Speaker F: Great question. I think it first starts with making the budget youth and child friendly and I'm including children in this because the budget also impacts them and their friends and we do understand that the budget presentation there is the formalities in Parliament. So as you mentioned before, it's very long winded. There's also if you aren't able to look at the parliament channel, they usually post the budget speech online. But the reality is no young person is going to sit down and read the entire document unless you are naturally interested in the affairs of the country or you happen to work or do volunteerism or civic engagement in political feuds or you belong to a political party but definitely having simplified versions of the budget. Even sometimes the infographics that different news channels or different stations that helps breaking down the budget. But good people, like people do try. For example, Mikhail himself does explain some complex national issues very simply and even at the government level that's something the Ministry of Finance can do to appeal to different groups of the country. Because reality is not everybody is going to understand all these big economic terms. Realistically, everyone doesn't understand that. So I always say a good orita is able to break down complex, complex terms and make it very digestible for the general population. And in terms of the question how to get young people interested in the things that are affecting them, I would like to see that as of recently a lot more young people are understanding, understanding that their vote, or rather withholding their vote has real life consequences. And especially given recent changes in legislation, you are seeing more and more way, way more commentary on political affairs that are impacting people. That's very true but surely people are paying, especially young people are paying a bit more attention to what, what is happening. Because the reality is we are all feeling the impacts of decisions, changes in legislation or rather lack of action towards the very pertinent issues that are impacting people today. So you are seeing an increase, but it's gradual. [00:50:42] Speaker B: I want to commend that initiative, that comment on child friendly budget because if a child could understand it, practically anybody can. And creating that infographic because some persons learn visually. So as opposed to allowing them to go through a document that probably has about 99 pages attached to it with a glossary that your eyes can't see. I think if, if and I know the ministers and those who are occupy office now listen to this program realistic, that would be a good strategy to get persons from the common man to the most intelligent to understand what they're presenting. And Chris said a question I would want to pose to you because I know David would have ruled out the your cast. Do say education, do say employment because that's the easiest one. But in terms of this budget, when you sit with your peers, what are their expectations, their realistic expectation as to what they want to expect from in that level. [00:51:45] Speaker F: Great question. Some of my peers like I, we do call ourselves consider ourselves a mini cabinet. And some of the expectations we were discussing, we do expect a deficit budget. For the past how much ever years there's always been a deficit budget. We are also expecting a lot more infrastructural and housing projects to be priority in this budget. Yeah, I personally, I can't touch this to everybody else but I do expect that there would be possibly some new taxes because that's the recent strategy that we have been seeing the government applying. There will definitely be large allocations for national security because that has been the main focus for the government. I'm hoping that there will be increases in the Allocations health specifically setting aside more money to address mental health in this country because it is a very serious issue. I do expect a large allocation for education and training. And even recently we do know that there is a local government bill, local government reform bill on the horizon. I am expecting that there would be an increase in the allocation for local government given that there will be no three new municipalities once that legislation passes. [00:53:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:10] Speaker F: So I would increase. I would expect. Sorry, that would be increasing employment. You would literally have to invest in infrastructure for that. You'll have to buy machineries for these new municipalities. Correct. So I do expect that there would be an increase in that allocation for local governments. And again I also expect as I mentioned before, with infrastructure, more money allocated to the Ministry of Housing to try to address the housing crisis in this country. But that is a very big complex issue in and of itself. [00:53:48] Speaker B: It's interesting that you mentioned that increase towards local government because we had Dr. Shin Mohammed here I think last Friday and he was anticipating that there may be an increase towards that particular sector of society. Because when you, as you were saying, when you look at three municipalities being added so from 14 to 17 you factor in the administrative building which these municipalities have to operate from the new, the amount of staff resources. And of course you want to be able not to end up in a position that happened last year where some corporations couldn't. Will possibly basically they couldn't pay their workers as they comfortably could have paid it. So I mean I want to agree agree with you on that position. You mentioned education and training. Before we go to the education. When you say training, are you talking about software skills or something other than soft skills when it comes to training for young people or just for the entire country? [00:54:52] Speaker F: From my observation of pre gross budget, sometimes they do group together education and training as an overhead in allocation of funds. I have not been able to fully see what they allocate training towards, but I am guessing that that may have been some of the. Yeah, as you were saying, soft skills, probably some programs that they may launch into the public. For example, I do know some ministries right now have some free courses in artificial intelligence etc. Oh yes, that to fall under that pillar. [00:55:30] Speaker B: And last question before I ask David to chime in on the conversation as well too. When you, when you think about this budget, is there a particular project that you would want to see probably returned or invented and funded well to benefit people of our generation. [00:55:53] Speaker F: I love that you mentioned returned truthfully. And this is my position, my position and my position alone. Nobody else his position we do need to. And I would have hoped that this would have been the approach to revamp the youth programs that were discarded as much as yes, these programs had very high administrative costs. You cannot measure accurately the impact of a social program on the life of a young person even beyond. Because I know some of the arguments were what were the pass rates? And I think that was solely dependent on their CSEC passes. But were we even measuring the impact in terms of change in behavior? Were we measuring the new skills that they were able to attain? These things do impact persons. I would say currently in this economic environment way more than C SEC passes. I always boast that those who are in the service industries, for example those who are nail techs, hairdressers, barbers, those are the ones who are making big money right about now. Because persons as a young lady, realistically some people do prioritize their, their self care and giving that young person the opportunity to develop these skills as well as change the trajectory of their life. Sometimes you can't put an economic value on that. And I do understand that these programs definitely had significant gaps. But it's really an opportunity to review what are the gaps and make the necessary changes rather than discard it totally. Because the reality is development is never a bad investment. And when you literally set clear objectives and you have a proper plan in place to achieve these objectives through your strategic day to day functioning, for example, whatever was the how the program was set out, once you revamp that and change that, you can achieve the objectives that you have initially set out. So I'm hoping that they can go back to the drawing board when it comes to some of these redevelopment programs and simply revamp it. And also probably just review how you scale the project. Perhaps currently cannot afford to have more than 300 persons. Okay, reduce that and literally evaluate how you go about your staff probably even consider having a volunteerism program because there's a lot lot of older persons who are willing to give back to young people in this country. But the opportunity doesn't exist for that intergenerational exchanges. So there's unique ways to go about impacting young persons lives. But the answer simply isn't to just get rid of it because our young people need us. We see it more and more each day. And having heavy police presence is not the way to address the social issues that our young people. [00:59:05] Speaker A: I am very happy to hear you mention that. We continue our discussions in a short minute. It's 7:30. So here is today's Cyber Insight brought to you by 800 Tech. Imagine your critical systems went offline this morning. How long could your business continue operating? An hour? A day? A week? Cyber resilience isn't only about preventing attacks. It's about keeping the business running when something actually goes wrong. Today's Cyber Insight brought to you by 800 Tech. Your tech tip in a minute. Good morning again and welcome back to beyond the Budget. The budget conversations happening this morning one of Freedom 106.5 FM's host on Fridays Inside Hub is here with me, Mikhail Campbell. And we're dealing with the Gen Z era as it relates to understanding the budget. One of the things I love about what Krista mentioned a few moments ago is more police on the ground does not mean well for the economy or even for that of the youth. Restructure the programs that was already in there, invest in them. Because let's face it, right when it comes to the Gen Zs, your bare minimum starts on a degree level, an associate degree perhaps, and then it moves on from there. So competing in a 5o level environment doesn't seem to be 5o levels is what, like a school even certificate these days? [01:00:42] Speaker B: Yeah, that's cxe full certificate. [01:00:44] Speaker A: Yeah, that's like a school even certificate, you know, because while it's still attainable for certain jobs, you are still meeting persons that carrying a degree or an associate degree and then going into that [01:00:54] Speaker B: degree is becoming like a full CXC certificate. [01:00:57] Speaker D: Derby. [01:00:58] Speaker A: Yeah, and that is frightening because we're being honest, not everybody carries that academic inclination. And because they don't carry it doesn't mean that they're less contributive to the society. [01:01:10] Speaker B: Correct is right. [01:01:11] Speaker A: Because when we look at the evolution of education, we can't negate it, you know, and those social programs that government would have shelved as a way of saving money from a Gen Z's perspective, you talk about investing in the youth, but continue along the lines very quickly for me within the next minute as to how you or how the youth is looking at the revamp of these projects for sustainable growth with youth development going forward. And that's the uchrista. [01:01:43] Speaker B: Chrisette. [01:01:43] Speaker F: Oh, Chrisette, sorry, can you restate the question? Is it that you're asking if youth are expecting and really want these programs to be back? [01:01:53] Speaker A: The thing about it is we want to remove society from the dependency syndrome because since time immemorial we have a Trinidad and Tobago culture of a dependency syndrome on government initiatives, government handout. Government does not run an ngo. This is not a Non profit organization when it comes to government, they run a country based on the gross domestic product. They run a country for growth, for economic stability. And they do this through various channels. In Trinidad and Tobago, we are pegged on the oil industry, we are pegged on energy sectors. In order to bring that economy, we seldom look into the green economy, we seldom go across to the orange economy. But we look at the energy sector. Despite dwindling of infrastructure globally, prices fluctuating, especially on the decline, we still seem to peg our budget on it. We have this government have moved away from social intervention programs, the MYLAT programs. They've shelved those things, citing corruption, overspend. How do we get a government to revamp these initiatives to help the youth? Not much more police on the ground, as you rightfully mentioned, is not the way. All right, so then how do we get these youths sustained to understand the importance of the budget, what it means for them, for our future going forward? How does government revamp these projects and stymied or curtail the corrupted practices that they are saying was there? [01:03:22] Speaker F: Great question. I would like to humbly suggest that we need our technocrats, the same people who are beneficiaries of the GATE program, who are very well skilled and qualified to do needs assessments or look at the feasibility of programs to do so. Not from a political lens, not because this is what they want to do or this is the direction, but look at the facts and from those studies revamp and make the recommendations to the program. So example, I really did like the perspective of Senator ATS, Dr. ATS, with her points in terms of doing her private motion on the national workforce and manpower plan. I understood people were upset with her when she was saying that we need to track where persons who were beneficiaries of the GATE program are to find out where they are right now. But that is important. You need that data to understand [01:04:19] Speaker A: are [01:04:20] Speaker F: we adequately or are we effectively investing and spending towards the GATE program? I don't think our point was to reduce the amount of persons who could access gate. But the reality is our labor market, there's a mismatch in skills. There is literally saturation in certain fields. Like just last evening I was having a conversation with someone, I was telling persons, literally with the University of the West Indies at Augustine campus, majority of the campuses in the Faculty of Social Sciences. Realistically, you cannot continue to have 200 psychologists persons qualified in that degree program of 200 persons. [01:04:55] Speaker A: And I don't mean to cut you, but I want to just chime in on this during my time as well, even within recent years, I noticed everybody and the dog have a business degree in management in business management, everybody studying business management. So how do we deviate from that? How do we add more youth initiatives when everybody underdog seems to think business management is the way to go? [01:05:17] Speaker F: And the reality is there's so much layers to this. Like starting with education, you go to school and they tell you that there is certain fields that guarantee success. And the reality is, again, the reason why we need the data is to understand where are the gaps in the economy. This way you could recommend and really mentor young people to fill these gaps. And on top of that, if you look at how the world is going right now, there are certain fields right now that need people to be qualified in them. But yes, when you look at where persons are applying for programs, and I don't blame young people, they see tertiary education as the avenue towards economic security. But the reality is that doesn't always happen. And again, because there's a labor market and skills got miss that happens all the time. And who exactly is steering young people into the right direction? Or is there any document out there that is saying, okay, this is one field that needs persons, this is another field that needs persons. We need people. And even at the education university level, I think there's high time for the universities to also reevaluate some of the degree programs that they are offering. Because regionally, and I have some friends that left this country because the other islands needed persons to work. For example, there's a lot of people who's leaving Trinidad and Tobago to either go to Belize or St. Lucia to work in legal firms because there's a saturation here in Trinidad and Tobago. However, there are different views. Even when you look at the jobs that are posted on LinkedIn, when you look at the qualifications they're looking for, they are looking for person who are qualified in evaluation, they're looking for persons who are qualified in artificial intelligence. They're looking for fields that persons do not traditionally pursue. [01:07:09] Speaker A: And then the university levels, UE in St. Augustine does not offer these, these courses, does not offer these diplomacy programs and these degree programs. So how does one get skilled in AI technology and AI training? [01:07:23] Speaker B: But did the chime in there before? Christit contributes. That's why, again, being very fair, the ministry that deals with AI and technology, I think that's under Minister Dominic. Yeah, yeah, right, correct, Dominic. They are, as mentioned before, offering free courses to try to get us into that framework of being AI savvy because we are behind when it comes to we're watching the world going forward forwarding at aiway and sometimes you go to interviews. Karen Russell's do the rules do the [01:07:57] Speaker A: show on digital world on a Friday. [01:07:59] Speaker C: Correct. [01:08:00] Speaker B: He was indicating that some with those jobs people are asking you do you want to see a resume? No. They're asking you how verse are you with AI how and not Sia Norman across somewhere in the side. But they're asking you that and they're asking you how willing or how versatile are you in terms of adapting to new change. Because this is where the place is going. So it is hard to see sometimes where we are investing billions into education but the billions we invest in it's [01:08:28] Speaker A: conventional, conventional way of teaching. I know you have to go and I want to hold you a little two minutes extra. The thing about it is I want you to introduce this guest here within the studio with us, another Gen Z. Mikhail. [01:08:40] Speaker B: I want to introduce this morning to China and Tobago Hassan Jabu, who's actually from Tunapuna, a place which I consider a lot, who's also a university student. And this morning I want us to also hear his contribution what he sees the budget to be. And I will say this and take my time and saying it too often we make budgets for the future without having the future within the room and hearing what they are saying. So we're going to invest billions in education as if you were saying in terms of the conventional way. But we're not asking persons like Hassan or Chrisette or colleague or even Jared when he comes, where do you guys think that this money should be allocated? Caveat for this they their wish or their thoughts may not be practicable. [01:09:32] Speaker E: No. [01:09:33] Speaker B: However, there's a time and a place where it will become so. And you have already received the data too often as the Viewer said in 1997, Three hours of a long winded budget. Ask Hassan what does he believe when the money should be going towards young people in the country. It may seem foolish if his answer doesn't suit what you accustomed hearing. But I will tell you something. If God could use a donkey to talk to somebody, a prophet, what he could do with young people who actually invested. [01:10:03] Speaker A: Come on, go to the front of the class and take the teacher seat. Naman Hassan, welcome to the program. I. I know you have to depart, but let's get your your thoughts. Hassan Jabu, as a university student, your thoughts. [01:10:16] Speaker B: What the budget means to you. [01:10:17] Speaker A: What does the budget means to you? [01:10:19] Speaker G: Hi, good morning. Thank you for the introduction. So what the Budget means for me, in simple words it, it means my future. The budget decides which direction the country heads into for the next year and well, I have to go along with it regardless. It affects my schooling, it affects my business, it affects how much money I have in my pocket and how comfortably I have that. [01:10:49] Speaker B: Why do you believe you have to just go along with it? You said that it needs to do with some kind of like whatever they [01:10:54] Speaker C: say go well [01:10:59] Speaker G: we clearly could see the gap of consultancy amongst the youths. It seems as if all these decisions has been made a long time ago. And that's why I feel like you just have to adapt in the, in [01:11:15] Speaker A: the university and I listen guys, we are coming to you live here on freedom. I see the despondency in you, in your, in your facial expression, you know, mommy talk and things not looking good in the household. And you seem to be helpless. The youth in the, in your class, when you, when you were in school, the corridor conversations. The last budget that was presented less than a little over 11 months ago. What is that conversation like? Have you all thrown their hands up in the air? It is what it is. What can we do? Is that the conversation? Is that how you truly feel when these budget allocations are presented? [01:12:03] Speaker G: Well, to touch on the allocations, the main conversation once reviewing the budget, especially with persons around my age is how [01:12:12] Speaker A: old are you now? [01:12:13] Speaker G: I'm 21. [01:12:14] Speaker A: Persons around your age. [01:12:15] Speaker G: So allocation seem to not mean implementation and that is the main focus where they could call any number, they could say just go into that. But once you're not being able to see it on the streets or hear someone affected positively by it, you just have to wonder what actually happened. [01:12:40] Speaker A: Hassan, do you think governments of the past and governments present, do you think when they say we have the vulnerable in mind? I don't want to just. And I want to include the vulnerable, not just the destitute on the streets but I'm talking to the youth aspect as well. When government says the vulnerable we care about you, do you honestly listening to these budgets presentation, hearing whatever they are saying is going to be beneficial to the youth when it comes down to the youth on the ground, do you think these budgets truly reflect care and concern for the Gen Zs? [01:13:20] Speaker G: For you guys personally, I won't say so. Like for example our young entrepreneurs. I believe the last budget it was around 20 million allocated towards young entrepreneurs and that is a really small percentage when you scale it to $50 billion in a budget. We need more programs that could equip young persons to be able to succeed and succeed soon. I believe the way they care is for us to succeed within five, 10 years. And this how things look in five, 10 years is kind of imagine now [01:14:07] Speaker A: when you hear the budget is being presented and Chrisette, you there with us still? [01:14:14] Speaker F: Yes, I am. [01:14:15] Speaker A: When you guys hear the budget, you know a few couple weeks ago, maybe a week and a half they said budget day October 12th because there's a date seems they seem to be calling it all government it close to the chest. They don't want to tell nobody. Like is this glorified secret. If they tell you we go lose, you know. When you all hear budget, do you all hear? Is it an expectation And Chris, that I will start with you quickly. That yes, another one. Oh I'm really excited. You know. Let me see what's going to happen now. What is the consensus on the ground for the Gen Z's when they hear budget days coming. And Mikael, I want to thank you very much for your presence this morning and have a great day ahead of you. You would be reinvited to join me again sometime after this budget presentation. I think in tomorrow we'll talk, wake up in the morning and be back here in the morning. Let's have some conversations. Melissa, I hope you're listening. So thanks again. [01:15:03] Speaker B: Thank you and thank you David for having Me and Freedom 106.5 Family. Stay tuned as these Gen Z's tell us what's on their mind. [01:15:11] Speaker A: Thank you very much. So Krista or Chrisette, sorry. When you HEAR the budget October 12, was there a brim of excitement? You guys were beaming. Let's see. I'm excited. What was the thoughts on the ground or how is it [01:15:25] Speaker F: I think they thought on the ground was people literally bracing for impact? [01:15:30] Speaker A: Bracing for impact? [01:15:32] Speaker F: Yeah. Like as we have seen not just in this administration but previously on the basis of whatever. I see changes that happen. You see people, people preparing to go to the groceries, people in abundance and the gas stations and I think it's very similar. I do understand even I have. I know someone who works in the service and everyone has to go to work because they just never know what would happen if people may riot. But this is the reality of how citizens think. They are literally racing for impact. Some are hopeful because I was listening earlier today what he called you all at summer. I hope that they may see increases. Let's see. But some people are also expecting just on the basis of what economists and even the government have been saying that they are becoming very strict with certain Things so young people, thus we are [01:16:20] Speaker A: just racing for impact, you know, on a plane, I don't know if you have ever traveled before. I'm not sure when the captain says or the senior flight attendant says, brace, brace, brace for impact. We are not bracing for something good. Usually the aircraft is about to land or ditched, so they assume the position and brace. Hassan, is that how you all feel when you hear budget presentation budget day 130 today? Are you all bracing for a negative impact? [01:17:05] Speaker G: Well, I would say yeah, we're bracing, but I do have a positive or hopeful outlook at least. I'm not preparing myself to be disappointed as yet. But of the question, like what you think when budget, when you hear the word budget day, you're really just thinking, okay, let me see how expensive this next year gonna be. Let me see if double is gonna raise. You know, let's see what that big decision or that small decision up there, how it trickles down to us as citizens, as young adults. So it's really just hearing the budget and then trying to anticipate the chain reaction it gonna take to reach to me. [01:18:00] Speaker A: I love that. So I hope the government opposition and all listening hearing the budget. And I love that what Hasan said. And Chrisette, maybe you can chime in. I want to take a couple calls real quick. How are we waiting for the trickle down when it reaches to me, you know, how we gonna when it reach? And he mentioned the doubles because I mean in university it's all about, you know, cost, cutting cost and trying to survive through the classes. And doubles may be part of the diet as it's reachable. You can always have caviar. So I love that they are looking to see how is it going when it reach me, how I gonna feel it. Boy, take a call. 30 seconds. Go. [01:18:44] Speaker C: A pleasant good morning once more, Davy. Devi, I want to get a comment from your panel because they sounded real good and you are joining with them very well. But I want to go back to the poll question. Devi, I am of the opinion that old age pensioners do not need too much of money. What they need is better health care because the elder people, their lifestyle is not extravagant. They don't spend too much money on entertainment, they don't clothing, they should not have little children going to school and so on. But I thought that there should be better health care because when you reach a certain age, people's health fails and that is where they need the bulk of the support. I thank you. Enjoy. [01:19:20] Speaker A: Okay. Good morning. [01:19:23] Speaker C: Good morning, Davy. [01:19:24] Speaker E: We better try to wiggle off the government. [01:19:28] Speaker A: Let us wiggle off the government title. [01:19:30] Speaker F: We bel. [01:19:31] Speaker E: As with the former prime minister. [01:19:33] Speaker C: We love the government and thank you. [01:19:37] Speaker A: All right. Is that how the youth, the agencies are feeling a sense of having to tighten on their budget? 30 seconds. Good morning, David. [01:19:48] Speaker C: Some time ago, the former prime minister called on young people to step forward and take charge of the country. We cannot be speaking about what you want, what you want, what, what you have to give without understanding the dynamics that Trinidad and Tobago faces today. We face a very corrupt society. It's a Napoleon pickeroon society where everybody thiefing, everybody know how to get a driver's license in this country. Apparently commissioner of police does not know. Let me tell you something. Persons within the public service are stealing our money, especially when it comes to the bir And a way of treating with that was putting in a revenue authority. Young people should advocate for proper governance in the country so that we are able to spend or we will have money or to spend, to diversify, to do things differently. All right, so all of the things that we're speaking about, all the grandiose plans and everything, it cannot come without money. Where the rubber hits the road and they have to understand the critical thing in this country is integrity, the lack of gravitas. And Karen center could talk from now to thy kingdom come. Once you keep this corrupt society, you will have a government in place that promised to give you now bullets before bread. Thank you. [01:21:09] Speaker A: Eric made a very valid point and I want to go to you, Hassan. We've been hearing talks of corruption and wanting to change that from a youth perspective. Looking at the governance style of past and present, how do you all understand corrupt practices or corruption? How does that, when it gets to the budget allocations, trickle down to your knowledge and your expectation as to, you know, curtailment of these past practices. How do you, as a Gen Z, see or understand these corruption? What does that mean for you guys? [01:21:46] Speaker G: Well, I would watch it from the lens that most things that happen behind a closed door isn't presented the same way to the public. [01:21:57] Speaker C: And [01:22:00] Speaker G: there's a lack of transparency, especially with, let me say, how the allocations and then the progress on that certain, you know, adventure, the public never knows, like, what stage that these things are in. So at any point, it's easy to just either scrap idea or change the first promise or try to, you know, jostle it in some other way. I think. Mm. [01:22:35] Speaker A: When it comes to this corruption. All right, while you meditate on your thoughts, Chrisette, tell me your thoughts with the corrupt practices, the governments pull away from this initiative. For the youth citing corruption, you have given a suggestion as to how they can approach it going forward in terms of development and keeping it. But outside of that happening, when our youth here, oh gosh, is corruption here so they can't do this no more or this coming on stream and the opposition saying that, yeah, the government do that because they want to promote corruption. What does the youth understand where corruption, corrupt practices are concerned when it comes to a budget that will trickle down to you all? [01:23:17] Speaker F: Great question. I want to start off by saying that the corruption isn't just at the head. You see it happening even in the government offices in big and small ways, truthfully. And the reality is our society, I guess we are born and bred into it, we see persons doing it. So we think that we also should eat our food. And it really requires accountability and transparency and having a watchdog to hold people accountable. And also it requires consequences because ever so often you'll see a news article with allegations of this one got a contract who really shouldn't have a contract because that is it really isn't right in any form or fashion. And what comes out of it realistically, is it being investigated? Are people literally paying the price? And when you see those in authority where these allegations happen, nothing really comes out of it. You don't see anybody being demoted. You rarely see any legal or justice happening. Or on top of that, if someone is sued because of a corrupt practice or something goes wrong, for example, ttps, who pays the price. So there is so much to rethink when it even comes to accountability and transparency. And I would say it starts even with the ordinary citizen and having the guts to also hold those accountable in authority. But even when young people open their mouth, we are afraid of being blacklisted. That's a concern and there's some. Two things I wanted to respond in terms of the callers very, very quickly. I hear the thoughts on old age. Persons don't need an increase. But if you really do a needs assessment of the cost of living for an older person, reality is $1,000 in grocery cannot sustain an old person. On top of that, not everybody is in the position to care or they have like someone at home to care for them. Sometimes you do have to put them in old age homes and that is nothing. That is $500. It is expensive in and of itself. They have bills, they may have debt based on how they were living before. So I don't think it's a fair statement to say that they don't require this amount of money. They also have needs, they are also persons. And we need to have a lot more respect and pay a lot more attention to our old age persons because they have contributed to this society as well. And on top of that, someone else said that we need to wean off the government and tighten our budget. How much more do you want young people to tighten their budget? Realistically, we are fighting to make a living. We are fighting to enjoy life. When it comes to even getting home ownership. There was an article recently that said to even qualify for a home that is 1 million and it's very rare to get a house in this country that is 1 million. [01:26:07] Speaker A: Chrisette, can I keep you for a minute? Stay with me. We go to the news that's coming up at the top. Let us talk. Hold your points, take some notes. We're coming back after the news break. Immediately after the news break. You raise some very important issues. And Hassan, I hope you're paying attention because I want to get your perspectives. Some of your students in your class, what are their thoughts? The best insight. Instant feedback, Accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom. 106.5. Six minutes after the hour of 8:00'. [01:26:44] Speaker B: Clock. [01:26:44] Speaker A: Good morning again, Trinidad and Tobago. Joining us on the program this morning, my good friend Emuale Henry. We have Krista with Chrisette with us still and Hassan. Good morning to all of you. Take a listen. [01:26:56] Speaker C: Morning, Davy. Join the attention to corruption and the youth and whatever. [01:27:00] Speaker A: But right now there's a sitting MP [01:27:02] Speaker E: in, in, in the office. [01:27:04] Speaker C: As a young person back then or whatever, I think very young, just a [01:27:08] Speaker A: couple years ago with about three or four CPAP contracts. [01:27:12] Speaker C: Being a counselor or whatever, I think you understand at the same time, and [01:27:16] Speaker A: he know it was wrong, he knew [01:27:18] Speaker C: it was wrong being a counselor. [01:27:19] Speaker A: Counselor and having those. But it sat there and it blossomed, [01:27:24] Speaker C: it blossom until he became imp right now. So these things, these things need to be addressed as you say and I hope carefully it is addressed. [01:27:34] Speaker A: All right, thank you very much for that. I hope you guys are listening. [01:27:36] Speaker F: Good morning, Mr. Baby. I disagree with Carney Central. He probably have the money to take care of himself and go to the supermarket, but presently we have to buy most of our cedar. And on top of that, even if we get good health care and we get a prescription, we get any prescription, feel free, we have to spend money. And any doctor you go buy prescription medicine is very expensive. So I disagree with him. Tell him he don't want to take his pension. None. [01:28:11] Speaker C: Okay. [01:28:11] Speaker F: Leave it for we who need it. Okay, Bye bye. [01:28:14] Speaker A: Chrisette. As we continue with our budget talks this morning, you were speaking along the lines of that same conversation. And I'm glad Mwale Henry is now joining us here. You were speaking along the lines with that same conversation. As it relates, as it relates to the Gen Z's perspective on how the senior citizens of this country should be treated. And you did mention that they would have contributed. So now why would we want to lessen their allocation when the cost of living is raising? COLA is exceptionally high in this country. Please continue along your trend of thought, please. [01:28:48] Speaker F: Right. And I want to preface with what I will continue saying. The reality is we are living the longest with the consequences of those before us. So the statement that we need to tighten our budget is very unfair to young persons because the corruption in nepotism, what that caller previously mentioned, we are now coming into this. So telling us that we have to basically scale down is is not fair to us. I was mentioning homes, right? Whereas, and I always hear my parents and those older than me reference how much easier it was to afford a home. You need to have $17,500 monthly in order to qualify for 1.3 million dollar home. The reality is they don't even have much homes as one $1.3 million majority of them in the market is 1.82 million 2.5. So homeownership for young persons is literally a dream. And you could only hope that your name ends up on a list of hdc. And we all know the reality of that, that is politicized. You have to go into the MP office, our consular office, and play a case and your name will end up on the system. It's not even fair or equitable. And then we also know that persons who own more than one HCC homes, that is, that is the corruption that seeks to continue over and over and over. On top of that, we don't even have the luxury of being able to afford. Yes, education is free, but they tightened up on the GATE program. So you have to make the decision, should I fund my masters for myself, should I fund the bachelor's for myself or should I fund the diploma for myself? We don't have that same luxury. There's also ever increasing prices. And again, we are living the longest with the consequences of those before us. So it really is unfair to tell us to tighten our budget when our budget right now is really. We can't even plan for the future. We can't even plan for families when you add child care into that, that's a whole different ball game. So it is unfair to make that statement, especially even saying that the older persons don't deserve any increase. The reality is that 3500 isn't even enough to take care of an older person. And sometimes they're dependent on their children and their grandchildren to help them afford their expenses as well. And that's the reality. [01:30:48] Speaker A: Emwale Good morning. As we continue with the Gen Zs and their approach to the budget, their thoughts on it. I am Chrisette. In the last hour in collaboration with a gentleman sitting in studio with me, a university student, Hassan also Chrisette used some very, very strong words. Brace for impact when the Gen Zs hear budget presentation. Brace we know as traveled individuals. When we hear a captain on an aircraft say that what it means. Hassan also alluded to it. Before you respond to that final thought, she mentioned about the housing affordability. Doing some research. There was a time when middle income was ranging anywhere between 75 and 12 grand a month that was deemed middle. Now we're seeing that is on the lower end of a working income. We ain't reached middle yet. So we're looking at financially vulnerable persons under the threshold of 7500. So a person working for seven for $7000, flat 6000, they are considered financially vulnerable. Based on my research, lower middle income ranging from 12 to 20,000, which I honestly thought was pretty much middle income, they're saying middle income would have exceeded 20 to 30 grand monthly, which was seeing somewhere in the vicinity of 240 to 2, 3, 60,000 per annually. Your thoughts? In reachable, attainable goals that a government can put forward practically, especially when it comes to housing and education in this country. I will start there. You will have to unmute yourself. Mwali, can you hear me now? Yes. [01:32:56] Speaker E: Okay. Good morning. Thank you so much for having me. And to your panelists, good morning to you as well. So there is an affordability crisis amongst young people. What you have identified also if you look at the CSO statistics, youth unemployment has increased. The last Data looked at, Q1 I believe is around 12.6%. And then you have the national employment. Employment is further up. So from an affordability perspective there I would say five major challenges. One, young people are facing disproportionately, as I say, higher unemployment than the national, national rate. That's by 2.3 times the national rate. Educational experiences, you know, your panelists talked about, okay, what educational choices do I have to make? But even when they make those choices, the educational choices are not translated to consistently employability. So that in itself is another crisis. And then you have some young people who are disconnected from work training opportunities. There was a recent United nations report, there was around 16, 16 or 17% of young people who are not educated and don't have the type of employment trainability. Then you know, discouraging job seeking opportunities, all these different things. So how does the budget address this? So we're seeing the term brace for impact. How do we brace for that impact? I want us to follow the breadcrumbs. The administration has admitted at some level that there is a cash crunch, there is a revenue issue and we have another deficit that we're facing. How do they decide to deal with that political question to bring some type of sensibility or satisfaction? Look at the recent portfolio realignment. So what I predict is that there's going to be a lot of expenditure in the OJT program to do some form of absorptive capacity to bring some type of relief. Is that enough? The short answer is no. Why is it enough? Because the state sector can only hire so many people. If you look at the Tobago experience, Tobago, the THA is its major employer and they are having absorptive capacity. They have temporary programs that hire a lot of young people, make work programs and they fire them. That's what's happening right now. So if in Trinidad, one of the dependent components that helps the economy is the private sector and what are we seeing in the private sector? They're laying off workers. So I wouldn't say we have to brace for impact. We are stuck in a cycle and a cycle that can only find Some ease late 2027, when energy futures begin to see a little much more rosy and the government has some more disposable income to inject into the economy. My final point is that when you talk about talking about housing, the housing crisis presently is not just about affordability, but is about housing stock. The HCC's vision was designed to add housing stock to drop the housing market. Now this administration is pushing for a much more private public partnership. The real question is would these new houses that is coming online would fall in the affordability category because once you have a private partner involved, profit margins are different. So that I'm not, I am uncertain and that it will fully answer that question. The budget is going to determine what are the remits for these private public partnerships and what's the price point for these houses and how soon they could come on stream. [01:37:13] Speaker A: I'm happy that you mentioned that because in the first hour Hassan and Mwali I did speak with my co host and colleague Mikael about the pricing structure and how the raw materials to building these affordable homes the cost factor because the government is not an NGO I said that earlier this morning and I repeat that it's not an NGO the government is designed it's there to make money generate economic growth and stability for a country raise the pay attention to the gdp, the index and all these things Let us focus a little bit on the Gen Z's understanding where the government is expected to get these budget to get this this monetary allocation Our budget is normally pegged in this country on oil prices do you think that the Gen Zs and I speak to you Hassan Is that a conversation in the university where they're thinking about you know you mentioned how it trickles down and affects me but does the Gen Z understand how the government is pegging the budget to begin with and do they pay attention to the fluctuating oil prices you run in university I don't want you to give me don't feel I need an answer to you that sounds super educated or up we just because at the end of this conversation and Mwali will be a testimony to this I believe that the average citizen must understand our conversation and again it must reach their hearts so do you think the Gen Zs of this society well outside of that even with you understand where the budget is being pegged on or pay attention to the prices to understand whether we're in a deficit budget so we're being fed I don't want to say lies but propaganda or a fictional thought as to what could happen in the future from a university's perspective in the classroom when you hear the budget outside of Brace Brace Brace is there conversations around oil prices and what it means for us come to [01:39:12] Speaker G: the Micah so knowing that our budget is primarily I guess pegged off of oil and gas it's a little worrying knowing that it have a lot of other things we can diversify into especially like our food security in the country and managing our agriculture just trying to delve into different areas for revenue we also can do a lot more when it comes to green energy orange like it have a lot more ways to go and building our budget on what a few a future promises is pretty risky and knowing that we might have to contort certain ways to get what we want especially coming down to late 202029 with dragon stuff like that it isn't promised you know it's it's not [01:40:11] Speaker A: guaranteed but then Let me ask you from a university perspective we talked about the education factor this morning and the five O levels and the degree Emwari, you could chime in after his response on this one. Do you think government has made it attractive enough to get young persons interested in the agricultural sector and even the orange economy in terms of producing promotions, film industry? Because you all are talented. We are talented people in this country but outside of the energy sector, outside of the academics of business degrees and these degrees in engineering, how many lawyers could we have? How many psychiatrists and doctors could we so you find persons leaving this country and going up the region where employment is more gainful than in Trinidad and Tobago but how has the government in past and even in the last budget shown or pushed in a direction for the use of to delve into agriculture, to delve into the green economy to look at sustainability because they want to do AI film industry producing, promoting events, getting these things on stream entrepreneurship. What do you think Hassan? [01:41:23] Speaker G: Well knowing some of my peers and their optimist when it comes to to agriculture they're willing excited knowing what happened to programs like the Shade house program as well. Those were all things already set into place for this and there are persons who already completed that certificate who were waiting on what was promised and I don't think it have any lack of interest from these youth when it comes to agriculture and I don't think we need it beautified anymore as well we just need the availability to be able to go into this and succeed because [01:42:06] Speaker A: when you enter universities all about academics well not all because there are geo projects and stuff like that but I was just wondering if there's an interest for the fashion industry if there's an outside of best modeling but getting into designs if there's an interest into the film industry locally and whether government from a youth perspective have shone a light on these things to really draw in the youth. I thank you for your response Mwali, your thoughts on those same questions? [01:42:42] Speaker E: Yeah so it is important to know that yes the budget is pegged [01:42:49] Speaker C: on [01:42:50] Speaker E: oil more so gas in its reliance. The gas sector has been reconstituted with the reorganization of Atlantic lng. We have a much more diverse basket of goods in terms of pricing across the Asian market, European market and the US market. So yes it's important for us to know that because that's where our revenue comes from but here's a little stinging detail if you read the economists most Recent recent edition October 4th they have predicted because of the changes and the crunch that is happening in The Strait of Hormuz sanctions and shifts of Russian influence in Europe and the lessons learned from that they are seeing that the global market, many of the many countries, larger countries have not only reorganized their supply routes but they are building internal capacity to be much more self reliant. So what does that mean? Where most people would have depended on the western markets to supply and to fuel the economy in Europe or coming out of the Middle East. European countries in the short term term would have depended on energy that is coming out from Venezuela, Trinidad and the US to fuel the economy because of the Russian incursion with Ukraine. But here's what what's happening. It's projected that there's going to be a supply increase by 630 million tons in 2030. So very there's a high likelihood David that there's going to be a glut in the market. All the facilities are being built and things shipping routes that are being reorganized. There's going to be a gluttony market. So what does that mean? The futures that Trinidad and Tobago is depending on to fund its budget and the the windfall that we experience in now where the market is lead? Well there's. The market is buoyant. We get in much more for our gas by 2027 moving forward there's going to be over subscription. So we are going to be seeing less revenues that are going to be coming in. So whatever we have been depending on, you know, natural gas yes will buy us some time but it kind of buys discipline. We have to go into investing in different economies. And to your guests it is true there is nothing more that is needed to attract young people into the green economy or into the blue economy. I have intimate knowledge of those agricultural programs both as from a from a strategic advising perspective and understanding the participants and what took place. We have Yap, we have Shale House. We have over 300, 200 students who the programs was oversubscribed. They had hundreds five cycles lands will assign people don't have leases. The land is unproductive. And they have done this training at the University of Trinidad and Tobago in agri science, technology and agro processing. So we have the skill, we have the interests, the people are educated and equipped for it. They have the know how they did training at utt, they're training at netco. They form the business, they have the strategy. What do they don't have? They don't have continuity of policy across administration. So that is where the bugbear that's the bottleneck. So this administration needs to allow young people to participate in the economy. That's the key factor. There's no need for large expenditure. And I'll leave you with one other example. If you look at Barbados and you compare it to Trinidad and Tobago. Barbados heavily depends on tourism. Tourism business, service and some trade. In Trinidad we are still heavily dependent on energy, petrochemicals and manufacturing sector. But according to. According to the IMF and some of the Central bank statistics the growth projected growth rate for Trinidad is 0.8. You know what's your projected growth rate for Barbados? 2 to 3%. And they are a tourism sector. So what's we share the same sun, we share the same sea, we share similar history. We just a stone straw way. So what's so special about Barbados that we don't have that same ability? You know, what's the difference? We have been continuously according to the Central bank research in 2013 there is a gap between policy implementation and fiscal management. Every time we have a windfall we move away from investing in tourism allowing people to participate in the economy, allowing the agricultural sector to go move from just talk to action. And then when there's a doldrum then we say oh we need to diversify, we need to diversify. And then an administration change. Projects are stalled, there's no continuity and we go through this cycle again. So what is required now? It's action. I am, I am not, I am not positively. I have a lot of apprehension that there will be any continuity because this administration has made it clear they are reviewing programs and nothing is happening with that review. So I am pessimistic that there would be truly an engagement, a report, a reorganizing and a redeployment of our young people in the economy. [01:48:53] Speaker A: A realistic and while you raise some very, very pertinent issues I want to invite in some callers at 625-2257 and 6273223. All right, let me listen to this one quickly. [01:49:08] Speaker F: Good morning again Mr. Baby Crystal is so right what she is saying. Children have the Z. Listen, not everybody children could afford to help. I thankful and I grateful. I work very hard that my children pay me now in the sense that they pay my liability because for one reason or the other I don't know why my liability so big. They change the meter three times and it's over 1200amonth every two months. I can't for that. So one day one pay my telephone, one pay my and one groceries. And I thankful and grateful but not everybody children Children have some would love to do it, but living now is so expensive. Okay, thank you, Have a good day. [01:49:54] Speaker A: Hassan, A realistic short term, not a quick fix, but something that you think, if this is pegged in the budget at 130 today before its conclusion, how many minutes or maybe hours later you think will be strategic on government's part that will help the youth trickle down to you guys with immediate effect. It might be short term, but it's something that can grow over time. What is that one feature, that one realistic expectation you think government will do well to have in the budget today? [01:50:33] Speaker G: Well, first of all, I would say a proper communication of the budget. Have it displayed in a way where everyone could understand and be on board, be in tune with what happening. Not just dumping, you know, a 250 page document or whatever. Just being able to be transparent and have persons understand. I mean the budget would, it would state if we're hopeful or excited for the new year, you know, and I would say just, just transparency, transparency. [01:51:10] Speaker A: That's the first way to understanding and that could lend to a realistic expectation. Hello, Good morning. [01:51:16] Speaker C: Good morning, David Hassan, I want to tell you something. On the highway to development, we are moving at five miles an hour. Everybody else is going at 200 miles an hour. [01:51:31] Speaker A: He mentioned that. [01:51:32] Speaker C: Why? Because we are fools. China built a 20 story hospital in one month to house all of the COVID victims. How long will it take to build a 100 room hotel in Tobago? How long? You want me to tell you? 10 years. Because that is who we are. We are fools. We are like infant wanderers on the world stage. We have a brand new airport in Tobago. We have the sea and the sun in Tobago. We can build 10 hotels in Tobago in the next two years. If we want to do it. We can open up a vibrant tourism industry in Tobago. Because Tobago is an undiscovered covered country where tourism is concerned in the Caribbean. When this last government, when this present government came into power, there was a plan to isolate Tobago from Trinidad, separate, give them the independence. That was their plan. But when they came in, they don't spoke in the wheel because Exxon said there was oil on the east coast of Trinidad and if Tobago had divert from Trinidad, we would have lost all of that oil. So they backtrack on the plan and up to today they have playing the fool with Tobago. But I consider Tobago to be part of Trinidad and Tobago. It is part of the economy. They already made it bad when they chased sandals someday. But we need to open Tobago. We could do it in Two years. But if we sit down here, we ain't got nothing done. So I listen to your comments. [01:53:11] Speaker A: Nobody chased sandals but Hassan, you wish to respond? You don't? I, I, I hear that. Good morning. [01:53:21] Speaker C: What's up? Good contribution by Eric here. But listen to this. We joking this country concerning tourism as a billion dollar industry. Right now, Barbados, trying to get a million tourists to come to the country. They walk in and the tourism industry in Barbados, they make a joke. Not this because we have oil and gas. We forget tourism. Imagine we had a local Music Award recently. 90% of the people in this country, they didn't even know. And this is the first time this was outside New York, the first time. And everybody, all the tourism industry in this country started to do something about it. The amount of people that are coming to this party, we were scared. We stick in. We're real stickers. We're lazy. The tourism industry is because we lazy and it's slow. [01:54:08] Speaker A: Interesting point, Mwali. As it relates to tourism, we had the Caribbean Music Awards. You familiar with that, Hassan? [01:54:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:54:16] Speaker A: An award that is celebrated in New York for the last four years or so. For the very first time. Its inauguration into the Caribbean was right here in Napa, Port of Spain. And the significance and attraction in the tourism sector. A lot of persons were not aware of that award, prestigious award coming to our shores. Where did we fall? Where did we fail? Mwali? [01:54:43] Speaker E: Yeah, we failed because we. There are several components of that failure. The first would be for me, we have not adopted a patriotic understanding of development in the first place. [01:54:58] Speaker A: Patriotic understanding? [01:55:00] Speaker E: Yeah, because I am of the strong [01:55:02] Speaker F: view [01:55:04] Speaker E: the Patrick Manning administration would have made an attempt to develop what is called Vision 2020. Though it was led by the PNM administration, the attempt was for it to be a plan for the country, a national plan. And the university would have done much of that research. We had different sectors of society invested in that plan. But because of oppositional politics, from a communication perspective, it was represented or rebranded as a PNM vision. So we had a disappointment from our intellectual and professional class who failed to defend the plan and because they were instrumental in, in putting in the plan to say no, this is a valid vision. Let it now be a competition of who is best positioned as a political organization to execute the plan. Singapore has a similar plan. South Africa has a similar plan. But Swana has a similar plan plan. Many countries that are growing are executing national development plans. So when the politics of the day comes, the question is who is best positioned as a party or vehicle to execute that plan, Trinidad Tobago does not happen. We constantly have all starts, stops, restart, stop, constantly. The caller before talked about, about running Sanders. I think we shouldn't walk away from that. If you listen to the Sanders group to say, hey, this contestation, political contestation of the brand. Sanders should not be exposed to this kind of mudsling. And they pulled back. They went to St. Vincent and the Grenadines. The same, the same Beach Sandals proposal was implemented in St Vincent and the Grenadines making millions of dollars, dollars presently for its economy. So the truth is, and even by the own confession of the leader of the pdp, Progressive Democratic Patriots, he said, we don't want Sanders, but when we come in power, we will invite them to talk to them. So it was clearly political. Because if it's not a good policy and it's not a good direction, why do you want to arrange the same people to implement the same policy? Perspective OF INVESTMENT so what we require now is a realization of especially young people. I can tell you upfront, many of the companies that are happening among youth population are valid concerns. You know what is missing? Youth action. The young people are vastly passive. They complain a lot. But look at what's happening in France. The young people aren't sitting down and asking for jobs, they're taking to the streets. Where are the young people who believe that they are entitled to the economy, which they are, but they are not willing to take action to get it. And that sense of docile behavior and keyboard warrior behavior because we text about it, we Instagram about it, we in the chat room about it. But there's a sociological term that is being introduced. It's time for us to touch the grass. What that means we need to come from behind our screens and being, you know, talking heads and hit to the streets, take radical action. Because it's only action when you are. If you are invested in the future of your country, then something can change. But until then, we will be continuously talking about the same thing. And the Red House becomes the revolving door of inaction and plenty talk. And then we live in the squalor that we have caused to happen and allow to happen. [01:59:01] Speaker A: Hassan, we complain. Keyboard warriors. According to Mwali, your thoughts in mobilization, not breaking the law, but standing up for youth development. Because why I say that we have the ytep, the mylat and all these programs, some of them geared towards rehabilitation of youth who found themselves on the wrong side of the law. Others seem to go down a path. Well, you don't have book sense. You Know, it's difficult for you to study and pass an exam, but you're good at hairdressing and you could do nails good, you know, and we segue or not segue, sorry, but separate youth development between those vastly educated and those deemed duncy, so to speak. Not recognizing that you who vastly educated, as it were, who academically inclined, still needs to get to the nail tech because those pretty girls who sit down in the office, they still go to a nail tech and paid in il tech. So we see the importance of both economic worlds, the fragility of them and the need for collaborative efforts between both worlds. But then how do we get those in the university's mindset to understand without breaking the law? We need to show the government where pay attention to us. Please don't put a budget for youth development. And you did not consult with the youth. How do you all mobilize on that? [02:00:32] Speaker G: Well, the first thing I thought of, you know, for example, a protest. Right, Let me watch for the example. Sorry, I can't remember her name. But the lady who got paralyzed from the shooting with the police where the guy had his hands out. Yes, we've watched protest happened for the peaceful protest at that. Once they deem that it's against their agenda, they'll shut it down. They'll lock you up. I can't remember her name, but the lady who organized the protest for that situation, she had been targeted specifically. And being keyboard was warriors or seeing it from behind the screen, it have a general consensus that if we do make noise, we will be quickly shut down. And that is the general belief. [02:01:34] Speaker A: I would say mwali. That's a dangerous narrative because I take that to the homes. Mwali. If a child does not feel safe or heard while speaking out respectfully in the household passionately. I have two sons and they do it all the time because we have that kind of policy where we invite. I want to listen. Sometimes I feel you're bordering and disrespect the way you're talking to me. But I started looking at it from a different lens. Not listen to respond, but listen to understand. Not attack the messenger, but pay attention to the message that I'm receiving from myself son. Sometimes when he says it, I realize as a parent I was unfair. You know, we in our dictates. However, the youth is saying Alyssa was unfairly targeted for standing up for something. Again, not breaking the law and not encouraging you, but protesters democratically accepted in Trinidad and Tobago. But at doing this, even as a keyboard warrior, I can be targeted unfairly I can be targeted for saying things or typing things that can adversely spew a narrative that the government could see as you inciting violence. How do we get young people to mobilize in a way where we get government to not just hear the noise but listen to the message? Mwali how do we get them to do that and do it respectfully and within the confinements of the law? [02:03:06] Speaker E: Well the first thing I think young persons and I don't want to sound like I'm lecturing the present and the future but if young people ground themselves in history they will understand where society is today and how important it is to be a part of the solution rather than standing on the sidelines and hoping someone gets the message. It is because of the movement of young people in the 1970s the Black Power movement we have an expanding participation in the public sector. Before the public sector was set aside for only specific people of a certain skin few it was because of the Cambodia riots in 1881 we have now the understanding of resistance and the importance of freedom of expression. 1884 the Jose massacre 1903 water riots where people were against the increase of water rates. We had women who were involved in these types of movements. So the more young people steep themselves in their history this type of political cowardice and I'll call it that will rot our society in such a way that we have no one else to blame but ourselves. How could we as a society look at consequences and say well here's what the decision I'm going to choose is fear. The decision I'm going to choose is private contestation but public compliance Then we are no longer living in a democracy that was fought with blood and struggle and the insistence of all of its society to participate. We are not second, we should not be second class citizen in our own in our own country we are citizens. And to your point David there are lawful means to do this, this and the more that we are afraid of the interpretation of the law then what is there to left than to be what Existing on an island and picking up the scraps so that we could just live. Here's another crisis that the society is facing that people aren't talking about because of the the sense of unemployment not just amongst the Gen Z not just amongst persons of lower class and lower means. It's creating a crisis amongst our elderly. You know what the society is not talking about. I do a lot of work in my community and the elderly have become more vulnerable because they have a predictability of income through their Senior support grants. Do you know many of these elder persons now, they don't even see their pension because the grandchildren taking it. Our elderlies are vulnerable. They are exposed to predators in their family who are launching at their pension to pay for their grandchildren to pay to help pay rent. That is no longer about supporting the elderly. So what I require now is that young people need to see that while they are passive about pursuing their future, even the past is now a prisoner to the present. [02:06:49] Speaker A: Hassan, I want you to respond to this. Do you really feel the need to revisit history to understand what is happening presently? [02:07:02] Speaker G: I would 100% agree, yeah. History always repeats itself. There's always indications as to where we are as he said. So being able to understand history and being able to able to understand patterns, I think once you ground yourself, you'll be able to how do we get [02:07:26] Speaker A: the youth to move away from this cowardice notion of standing up for what they believe in? And while you mentioned the Camberley riots and a lot have changed geopolitically, demographically, we have seen a lot taken place. I'm not advocating for violence or, or for breaking of the law, but how does one systematically remove from being a keyboard warrior, being a cowardice according to Mwali to really getting that strength and motivation to stand up as a collective group and say to those political luminaries, hear us please do not put a budget pegged on youth or a section of it geared towards our development. But you are not a youth in this generation. Because I feel emwali we make decisions as adults for our children. I'm guilty too not understanding they in a different era to us, they don't exist in the era that we grew up under. So we treat them as if we were in that space. But you all are not and it's unfair. And I believe that the political luminaries along the same trajectory we peg in budgets today based on oil prices that existed yesterday with a hope that things will turn around geopolitically on that political landscape we talk about the straight off homose. But to remove from the cowardice from behind the screens and probably stand on the line of the law. What is needed to mobilize the team to get government to listen from a youth perspective. How do you get back to the university this morning and say guys, [02:09:19] Speaker F: well, [02:09:19] Speaker E: do you want me to answer that? [02:09:21] Speaker A: Oh, sorry, you could go ahead. [02:09:23] Speaker C: No. [02:09:24] Speaker A: And while you're coming as a child, you live in a household and you, I don't know, I don't know your history with your Parents and your grandparents, whoever it was, in authority, but the coward fear of being able to speak up and not sound disrespectful to our seniors because that's how many of us, if we disagree with what you're saying. The first thing, it's easy for us to come out and say you're being disrespectful rather than we're attacking you. But we're not attacking the message. We're not listening to the message. But the first thing, because sometimes the truth being said by the youth is uncomfortable for us. The child says, mommy, but you're doing the same thing, but look how you're doing. Or daddy, you telling me to be this way, but look at how you are being. And we sit as disrespectful, but are they telling us the truth? So when we speak to governance, I mean, that starts in the home. So now you're reaching a public space as Mwali is saying, and you're behind a keyboard or you're just talking and nothing. What do you think is needed? And this is a real basic question. I don't want you to give me nothing highfalutin that you think you might feel safe to speak up or at least action your rest of classmates to do something on this. What do you think you need to feel that sense of safety. [02:10:53] Speaker G: I would say it's like camaraderie in a sense, to be whole, but as the class. [02:11:00] Speaker A: But how do you get our parliament? What do you think is necessary for those in authority? What would you like to see from them that will lend some kind of, as we just say, testicle of fortitude for you to stand up and say, okay, at least all you're listening. Here's what's happening. What do you think they need to do to take you all away from that cowardice situation? [02:11:22] Speaker G: Accept youth consultation. For sure. [02:11:25] Speaker A: Accept youth consultation. Unmute Anwali. [02:11:31] Speaker E: Yeah. To my. I think my challenge will be a practical one. There needs to be, number one, a depoliticization of guilds of students. I'll tell you why I said I attended UV. I got my PhD from UWI, I attended UTT. And I will tell you this. Any student, any student who is honest enough when there's Gilda student elections, they are political operatives who campaign on the campus to get certain people into office. Political operatives. [02:12:11] Speaker D: Right. [02:12:12] Speaker E: They are part of the campaign. I don't know if your guests could allude to this. When I was there, that's all it was. So what's happening now? The place where Free thinking supposed to happen. They are now being indoctrinated into a system of compliance and go along to get along. Now, even in universities across, I'm not going to identify any university, but you've heard politicians say. Now you have. University lecturers are hiding in the classroom being politicians, but they wouldn't want to come and face the electorate. So lectures are being skewed in a certain way. We are seeing people and this is a problem not of today. This is a problem. Our society has been struggling with that. A R Robinson said, the crisis of our society is the professional class have let us down. People are not giving objective views about things because they want to be accepted. And I'll tell you what, that from sociological perspective is called elite copation or social reproduction. We want to. We want to be aspirational, we want to be accepted. So we don't want to rock the boat. And what's happening, we now become the very thing we say we didn't want to become. And it's happening in political parties right now. When you think, I always say there's a difference between youth and young people. There is a rush, radical difference between them. Now we have young. We have youth who want to be part of the adult system, but they have no idea what young people are going through. So whenever we see a young person and you put them and adult side by side, you're thinking they're the same. So you hear words like, well, you could be out, you could be a minister one day, you could be an mp, you could be. So they begin to talk the language, they begin to take on the form of the system that they require to challenge. So when they are invited in these spaces, when they're invited in executive meetings at ue, a part of the Board of Governance for decisions, they now begin to say, you know, the annual farm, now I'm a part of the class and there isn't a rocking of the boat so that progress can happen. So what is required? We need to stop becoming the very problem that we are trying to challenge. Depoliticize education, that if you, if you are critical of the government, you are anti UNC or you're anti pnm. We need to stop this false equivalency. [02:14:56] Speaker A: I like that. Caller, good morning. [02:14:58] Speaker C: Good morning and thank you very much, Mr. Omali. David, that is why the young man that is today next to you that you put on that interrogation just now, what do you consider them? What keyword warriors? I don't know, I just tuned in, but I heard him and when you asked the question and that is why he said if he could get the collective and you're saying that you're talking about the class or the university, it had to start day and his problem is if he make noise, he would have problem going to school. He could be pushed aside and ostracized because of his views. So it's safer to sit down in my dome on my keyboard, change my name, punching how I feel because I come out. That is, that is how this administration, sorry to say, but this is what it is. That is how this administration has society feeling. That feeling that he is feeling. How to express myself is to be a keyboard warrior is because how society is feeling now under this administration. [02:16:06] Speaker A: Thank you. So that's a societal thing. So what the caller said, what Bharataria said, is that truly a reflection to describe what is happening in university. [02:16:18] Speaker G: I would say especially his how you has been like. Well university has been like politicized. There is a conformity thing where that's happening. [02:16:32] Speaker A: Yeah, well it's said the same thing. There's a kind of conformity where those operatives are there and if you push back too hard or you don't align yourself, you could find yourself in a victimized position. The conversation and it just gets thicker and thicker. One person is saying we need more youth program programs and initiatives in the agricultural industry in order to pave the path to becoming food secure. Says I hold a BS in Agriculture and an MSc in Agriculture related fields. And despite my qualifications and genuine interest in contribution to the national food production, access to agricultural lands remain a major obstacle. I've applied to the Youth Agricultural Homestead Program, that is the YAHP under the previous administration, only to be completely ignored. Every year qualified and knowledgeable young people graduate from UAE and utt. Yet without family connections, land or financial backing, opportunities to enter the agricultural sector remain extremely limited. We continuously speak about food security and increasing local food production, but where's the meaningful action? With global conflicts threatening food supplies and food prices continuing to rise, we cannot afford to keep making empty promises. We have the knowledge, the skills and the willingness to produce. What we lack is access and genuine institutional support. Food security requires action, not political rhetoric. At this point is simply plenty of talk and very little action. That's how you all feel. Hassan, thank you for joining us this morning. Mwali, it's always a pleasure. We're out of time. Big budget talks beyond budget talks was extremely informative this morning and I look forward to know after 1:30 this afternoon, you and I will be talking again. Tomorrow again as we reflect on what is being presented before it goes to debate. Thank you again, Emwale. Appreciate it. [02:18:33] Speaker E: Have a great day. [02:18:34] Speaker A: Same to you. And Hassan, thank you again for joining us and for getting up and coming in early this morning. The conversations on budget no doubt will continue inside the Human Impact as it's coming up next. I know today we wait with anticipation and bated breath. My only budget wish list right now is two things. One, do not give me a three, four and a half hour presentation and two, please make the language understandable so that every sector in society can thoroughly understand and appreciate what the budget is being presented on. With that being said, I say goodbye post budget talks tomorrow on the Rumble. The best insight, instant feedback, Accountability, the All new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.