Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5
[00:00:08] Speaker B: it is now time to look at what is taking place with the stability of our energy sector here in Trinidad and Tobago. And when we look at BP taking full control. A story written just about nine days ago in the Trinidad Guardian. Trinidad and Tobago's largest underdeveloped offshore gas discoveries. A move energy experts say could accelerate development of a project expected to strengthen the country's long term gas supply and export capacity. Now, the London headquartered multinational energy giant BP along with Woodside Energy, they had some kind of 70% deal that is now leading into 100%. But who better to explain this situation to us and tell us exactly what we are looking at other than our dear friend and former energy minister herself, Mrs. Carolyn Sipasad Baichen. Good morning to you, Mrs. Baechan. Welcome back to the Morning Rumble and how are you?
[00:01:08] Speaker C: Good morning to you Devi, and to all your listeners. Thank you for having me this morning. It's a pleasure being here.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: I thought about you when we reached, when these deals were being hammered out, when these conversations took place in our public spaces and when it reached the papers, it reached our press rooms about what is taking place in the energy sector, the revitalization of the Point Lisa Steel plan, what it means for Trinidad and Tobago. We are being cautioned to look at the fine print. You have been engaged in different deals during your tenure. You would have, you spoke extensively about the coquina mannequin fields and the Calypso fields. You know, you helped me to appreciate the energy sector even more understanding about these deep water exploration. So this morning I want to start off the interview quickly by asking you when it comes to bp, any deal with bp, how can we benefit as Trinidad and Tobago's government when bp, as most people are saying, it's an international company, it's based out there in Europe. You know, they're saying now it has nothing to do with us.
Fact or fiction? Can you share some insight?
[00:02:23] Speaker C: Well, I think most important, I think we need to distinguish BP's role in different projects, including Calypso, whether it is in the Coquina mannequin, whether it is in Ellora and Manatee. Recently there was some changes there, so it's no longer exclusive to Shell, I.e. the Laura amenity Project. But coming back to, I think you started off by talking about the Calypso field. And Calypso is totally within our waters, deep water acreage and it has a very checkered history in fact.
So when I was Minister of Energy. When I became Minister of Energy. Let me start by saying that there was the shallow water bedroom that we had in September, which closed In September of 2010, a couple of months after coming into the administration.
And there are. What we did at that point in time is we closed the shallow water area because it was, you know, depleting and you know, very little, much more, you know, in terms of exploration prospects.
So it was a fully utilized, what we call the Columbus Bayside. And we moved into the deep water acreage. Now deep water acreage was having its own challenges for many, many, many years. And we opened a deep water acreage. I don't know if you recall during that time, that was in 2010, but we tried to revise the fiscal incentives to be able to make it more attractive. Because during that time, from around 2000 to 2010, there were some attempts to open that deepwater acreage and there was not much success, much uptake with it. We were able to get an uptake with that, with that deporter bid round.
It closed in January of 2011 and we were able to evaluate the results within about a month or two. And we had the results. BP at that time had acquired two of those blocks. And those are the two blocks now that make up. I don't want to get into all the technical issues, but it became two of the blocks that is now associated with Calypso. So just to talk a little bit, we have talked a lot about cross border unitization, but this was an example where we had because wherever the law requires and in accordance with the production sharing contracts that are signed for those blocks, immediately, if you find a reservoir, the reservoir, after they're doing their size pick studies and so on, they find that the reservoir struggles the border of two contractual blocks, two licensed blocks, they have to stop and report this to the Ministry of Energy and to start looking at what we call unitization for the same reasons that you do it with cross border fields.
It's more efficient, it's more effective, there's more protection, less damage to the reservoir if you have one drilling, let's say one operator extracting from that reservoir instead of two, you know, because you know there can be a competition for, you know, race to who drills first and so on, which damages the reservoir. So because of that, over the years this was developed and hence CALPSO became a unitized, you know, the approach for unitization of two blocks that were awarded under separate contracts, which was during the 2011 period.
Now the point I'm trying to make from 2011. And I said this today to the media about a week or two weeks ago. If you look at what happened in 2011 to today, today is 2026. And if you look at the time frame involved here, it shows you again, it reinforces the point. From the point of award to the point of getting anywhere close to investment into production.
We are not going to see anything from the2030s look at the time frame we are talking about. These are very long term projects. But I think one of the things that it does say to us is that we need to review to how we make decisions as Trinidad and Tobago in terms of probably I've maintained and I've advocated in the past that we need to look at how we need to review our Petroleum act, the production sharing contracts. Because I think those unitization discussions probably contributed to the protracted delays in the Calypso feed. Now, Calypso has a tremendous amount of potential. It's a deep water hecarage, it will be the first and it's about what, 40 CF, which is what we need in terms of revitalizing the petrochemical sector and the energy sector. And it's one that was needed probably, you know, a bit, you know, much earlier than today if we had that coming on stream. So I make that point because I think it is time now that we start reviewing our laws and we start reviewing our contractual arrangements, you know, to assist in, you know, expediting this decision making, the decision making both on the government side, because there would have had to be negotiations among the various operators that will get well licensed for those blocks. And the government of Trinidad, we go to Ministry of Energy. So I make that point.
So that was the whole issue. So this went for a checkered history. It was awarded first to BP in a consortium in 2011 and after that it changed hands. You know, as usual, you know, this is something that goes on in our energy sector. Blocks change, you know, in terms of ownership and now it's reverting, you know, to BP once again. The benefit of that, the value of that, the advantages of that is that it's no, again, by acquiring the Woodside stake in that project in the TDD, what we call one of those blocks, the TDD A14, it will allow for better decision making, quicker decision making, because you now have one operator for this unitized block, Calypso, and you know, to bring it to fruition as quickly as possible, you know, so that's on the Calypso side.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: All right, I do have a commitment so as we head towards the 7:30 mark this morning, let me take a quick commercial break. But just before we take those commitments, I want to leave Ms. Beacham with this question to ponder on two things. One, I got a message with someone not understanding what the bid wrong really is. We have heard about it a lot of times, but they don't understand what this bid wrong is. And the other question had to do with what you said last in terms of the partnership and the handing over. Let's look at the switching of government. So if a deal starts up, if negotiations started with the previous administration and due to, you know, elections, there's a shift in politicians and in government in the country, what happens to those deals? Are we going back to a fresh round of negotiations or is it something usual that, you know, we continue with the deals of the last government, whatever they were saying and then we try to make negotiate that same deal along the lines of the new governments. All right, so we're dealing with the bid wrong.
What is, what, what is it really?
You know, they want to understand that and then with the deals because if we switching deals, if we switch in, if we, if we renegotiate in something new, that means what, Whatever bureaucratic process took place in the last administration is not going to happen in this one. And that is going to see an extension of these deals. We take a break and we'll be back.
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[00:10:29] Speaker C: It's a magical place to be. Cause I know you love me. Terry Dairy.
[00:10:34] Speaker E: When you fill that world with love, it's magic.
[00:10:37] Speaker C: Derry Dairy the milky milk Cricket Fast
[00:10:43] Speaker F: get ready for the biggest party in sport. The Trin B Night Riders are back in action in the 2026 Republic Bank CPL T20 CNC3 is bringing you every TKR match live.
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[00:11:01] Speaker C: six of the day.
[00:11:04] Speaker F: And watch every six, every wicket and every game changing moment.
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[00:11:48] Speaker A: Expression is who we are. Take control. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5. Speak your mind.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Once again, good morning Trinidad and tobago. We are 27 minutes on the upswing to 8o'.
[00:12:11] Speaker G: Clock.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: We say good morning again to Mrs. Carolyn Sipasad Beijan, our former energy Minister. And we are dealing with the well, the deals being hashed out and reached with bp, what it means for us, the deep water exploration with calypso fuel and all these different hydrocarbons. However, there was a bid rung question asked and Ms. Beijan, can you share some insight on how these bid rungs, what exactly is the bid rungs?
[00:12:39] Speaker C: Okay, so the bid rung is a competitive process which is where you invite investors, mainly multinationals which have most of the time deep pockets and the technology, the wear it all to be able to carry out exploration and development of acreage.
So over the years we have always used bid rounds. So Starting back in 1995, 1996, there were several bid rounds. I just want to say that a policy of mine, because I did observe it under the administration at that point in time in 1995-2000, how much those competitive bid rounds did for Trinidad and Tobago in terms of its investments. And we got a number of investors that came in at that point in time. It was under Mr. Pandey at that point in time. And you were able to invite a number of multinational companies to bid for what we call.
So you take you. What the Ministry of Energy people would do is look at the acreage, so let's say our offshore acreage, the deep water acreage for example, and they will divide it up into blocks, licensed block, you know, to be licensed, which is where you would now grant an expiration and production license for the expiration of those blocks and then for the, you know, the data.
So in terms of that you would have all these blocks developed. So we always talk about this block, that block, etc. So you would have remembered that we had something called the teak salmon and pui, which is one of the most prolific blocks that we had, you know, a set of acreage that we had, we supplied Trinidad and Tobago with natural gas and oil, etc. Over the years. So subsequent to that, you, we used to maintain what we call these companies competitive bid rounds where you put out like a whole, you know, like any other competitive bidding process, you put out all your technical specifications. What you think are the prospects for that, any data that you may have, genealogical data that will assist the investors in making that decision on how much money they would want to invest. It is evaluated based on the selection is based on what sort of prospects DC1 to what sort of work they want to do. What we call for example, how much seismic work they would want to do, how much exploration drilling they would want to do as well, in terms of proving up what the reserves of this country. So in terms of those bid rounds, what it does for us, it helps us to prove up our results because as we know it, yes, there may be some gas out there, so it's possible, probable. But how do we know how much we have and we actually use that process by awarding this license and these multinational companies who come in sometimes we do what we call a carrying interest together with our own national companies like the NGC or Petrotrend in those days. And what you do is that you are able to allow for the proving up of our reserves. So for example, I don't know if you recall, but in 2000, one of the alerts that I kept with raising to the country was the depleting proven reserve. We weren't proving up enough. We were extracting more than proving up our reserves. And that is because what was happening, we had started a number of downstream projects, including LNG which was extracting, but we were proving up at the same rate. And that to me was because our bid rounds, we had decreased the frequency of bid rounds. So my rule of thumb is that we should be running two bid rounds every year to be able to prove our poor reserves. And what has happened over the years, and this is an important point, something that I advocated for when I was in the Senate as an opposition senator, is that the continuity of this is what helps us even to learn more about our acreage in terms of the prospects in our acreage. So that was one reason that I advocated for that. And when I came in as a Minister of Energy, I advocated that we will be running two bid rounds every year. You know, and this was one of the reasons for opening back up the
[00:16:39] Speaker B: whole deep water acreage as it goes with negotiations. And thank you very much for clearing up that issue for us. As it goes with negotiations, what is the usual or the norms when switching governance following an election where negotiations started with one energy giant or one energy company, even with continuation of that company's existence into the country, how does it work?
Is the transition smooth or is it that we have to scrap those previous arrangements, negotiations and enter fresh ones?
[00:17:08] Speaker C: Well, no, because if you keep doing that, then you're going to be starting over every day. Energy projects are long term. It's longer than the five year cycle, the political cycle, the election cycle. So therefore we always expect there will be continuity. Furthermore, one of the reasons that Trinidad and Tobago was always considered to be investment was one of the recipients, a destination for foreign direct investment, especially in the energy sector, was because of that continuity, what we call stability.
So investors know that if they invest in a country like ours, when there's a change of administration, you don't change the terms and conditions on them again too. We have had a situation with that once or twice where, you know, we've had to remind governments that, you know, if they do that the uncertainty creates what, you know, increases the risk profile of the country and hence the reason why. And I will always say this, and I go back from the years of 1995 to 2000. It was one of the reasons that we were able to reach the conclusion of the LNG projects in the time frames that we were able to, to, to negotiate it, because we were considered to be politically stable in terms of how you have continuity of decision making and if it is every time an administration changes, you change the terms and conditions or you change the negotiations with that term with the prospective, the investor, you're not going to be able to attract foreign direct investment easily to this country. And we've always wanted to be a destination of foreign direct investment. Just to say it's one of the reasons why we will probably second in the western hemisphere for foreign direct investment during the 90s and you know, leading up into 2000.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: I appreciate that and that speaks well for political stability in this country. Despite the fact that we have varying political ideologies from varying political luminaries, we still appear to be very stable politically with governance in this country despite, despite whichever party is in, is in governance and attracting these FDIs. This is very, very good. Let's take this call respectfully and quickly. Good morning.
[00:19:15] Speaker H: Good morning Devi and good morning, Ms. Bchan. Ms. Bchan, do you see any downside from BP gobbling up which side? Because I know it's always better. Two is better than one in my view. Right, but do you see any downside to withdrawal from our financial receipts from it? And secondly, when I hear talk by people that BT is going to interfere with the Lauren side, there's one field, it's called the Lauren Manatee field and Shell went on to secure 1.7 trillion cubic feet of what is in Loren from Venezuela.
Now when these international companies do business with Venezuela and they buy the gas, so they, let's say they buy it from them at 10 cents, I know they're not going to sell me back at 10 cents. So all of these different things is happening. I think that it's becoming a bit more expensive for us to have gas in this country in order to run plants and then get the proper rents from them.
I hope my question does not confuse you, but I am concerned about the multinationals making deal with Venezuela and then selling those deals to me. I listen to your comments.
[00:20:34] Speaker C: Okay, I think, let me start with the BP Wood side is still in terms of that, that is totally in our, in our local waters. If I may say that that is domestic totally. And already what has happened here is by BP acquiring that, you know, it assists with the unitization process and therefore you can have one operator. I don't see any downside because, because the contracts itself, what would have happened is you had to contractual license for the two blocks and what all the various blocks. And then what will happen now is the Ministry of Energy would have worked out what would be the unitized contractual arrangement because you would try now to consolidate the area and make it into one operation, a unitized operation. So I don't see any disadvantages. I think I see advantages in terms of how the, you know, you'll be able to get better or what we call quicker decision making. Instead of, you know, the issues that arose. We must remember that roadside profile, you know, their whole profile would have changed and hence the reason for them giving up their stake in that. In that, in that, in that block to, you know, and being acquired by bp. This has, this happens almost every day all over the world. As you know, they change their investment profiles and so on. We have tax.
The terms and conditions of that depends on how the Ministry of Energy allow the terms that contract for that contractual license, that unitized license. So in terms of operatorship, so I don't see any downside. It is up to our Ministry of Energy to continue to regulate and to ensure that we maximize the benefit to Trinidad and Tobago.
You mentioned the whole issue of the lower humanity. I don't know how much time we have. Before you go to your break or should I take it?
[00:22:11] Speaker B: You can take it.
[00:22:12] Speaker C: Okay. The laurel mandate we have, you know, you talked about the again to be changing.
This is really not so much, you know, this is also a unitized field. And I think the most important issue here is the unit what we call those OFAC license or what are going to be governing. So the caller did mention, and I think it's important to understand that in all these cross border fields we do have. You have to have an agreement between Venezuela and Trinidad and Tobago for the development of that field in terms of how you extract. Now I would like to see more details on that. Laura Manatee. I'm not sure if they are reunitizing the field or if they're going to operate it as two separate blocks because you will recall that Laura Manatee had to be de unitized because of the ofac license. In 2010 we signed a unitization agreement that would have allowed the operator again to be able. Because you're finding a reservoir that is straddling the two blocks, one on our side and one on the Venezuelan side. And hence we call it a cross border unitization field. And you have arrangements between the governments of contractual arrangement which was governed by a framework before that, but now you have a unitization agreement that would have covered how this particular field would have been developed and how it would have been extracted. They would have identified what was on our side and what was on the other side of Venezuela and how that gas was going to be utilized. So to say, now that you know that they're buying the gas and I'm not sure if that is going to be the arrangement, you know, I would have thought that they wouldn't have been looking at reunitizing the field and you know, acquiring the appropriate OFAC license for that, as is happening right now with the Coquina Mannequin, which is one of the projects that was mentioned with BP and NGC in terms again too, we have to be guided by what will happen with the OFAC license. And so you remember we always talked about with these unitization agreements or these unitization fields, these cross border fields, that there are three parties, that is the Trinidad government, the Venezuelan government as well as the US in terms of the terms and conditions of the Oprah license.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: Beautiful.
[00:24:23] Speaker C: I don't think that answers.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: I think it does when we. And just to add to what the question that he was asking, we look at the Kabulitso move with 100% BP ownership means that the project is now controlled directly by BP rather than BPTT Repsol partnership. This simplifies ownership and gives full authority over technical, commercial and investment decisions. And that is what Ms. Sipasad Beachan reiterated a few moments ago. So the final investment decision development is not guaranteed. Sole ownership increases strategic flexibility and could improve the project's chances of progressing if it can prove competitive future gas supply for Trinidad's LNG and domestic markets. That's coming from Mr. Mayaro. Now when it relates to the cross border gas between 2019 and 2024, the opportunity to develop the Loran Manatee and the Coquina Manikin Venezuelan gas fields such as Dragon existed because the process or the progress was slowed by the strict US sanctions. And that is exactly what Ms. Sipasad Beitran explained a few moments ago. Thank you very much Mr. Mayaro for sharing your knowledge and thoughts on this. He went on to say that Trinidad faces much greater need for new gas supplies to support LNG and petrochemical production while regulatory and commercial discussions have matured, making Venezuelan gas a more strategic and potentially actionable solution despite continuing geopolitical challenges. And that is something that I feel very, very proud of with what Ms. Bei Chan said, how the foreign investors are seeing us on the political landscape as stable despite the shift in political parties and governance. Hello. Good morning.
[00:26:11] Speaker H: Morning.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: Good morning sir.
[00:26:12] Speaker H: Very quickly, I want your comment this please.
Mr.
Shell and BP has a vested interest in mannequin Coquina.
Right now we have, we have the Atlantic Energy and ngc. NGC is already taxed by the government.
Atlantic Energy is owned by 45%, BP 45%, Shell by 90%.
The Sri Lanzen government or taxpayer has 10% there. 45, 45, 10. Now since BP BP is pushed, BP and Shell is pushing the market in Coquina. That's close border. What now what is happening?
President Trump is organizing the Venezuela energy sector and PDBS is handling that too. So I'm saying that with Shell and BPD it kind of easy to get that gas. Would you like to comment on that please.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: All right, thank you very much caller.
[00:27:22] Speaker C: Yes, I think he's talking about because it's BP and Shell that it will be easier access to the gas. I think it's more important for us to understand what will be the OFAC terms and conditions because new license have to be awarded. Remember what has happened so far. The OFAC license have always been a sort of conditional license so far to allow the discussions but before any finalization that will have to be revised. So I think that is going to be a governing well, I would say one of the issues that will guide how that gas is utilized. Now Nicole is making a very important point and that is what cost are we going to get this gas at towards? Because you know our sector, you know, let's take LNG for example or the petrochemical sector or even this recently announced the reopening of the INSC complex.
Those projects for them to be economically viable, they must depend on a particular gas price. So depending on the acquisition of that gas price of that gas at an economically viable price would then dictate how it will be used. So we have not yet and I think this is something that the energy policy has to it constantly have to be reviewed in terms of how you would allocate that gas amongst the LNG and the petrochemical sector. Having said that, I did see that in Manikin, Burkina with this announcement of being able to explore the other side, which I think again would be better off because you're talking about one operator, ngc BP in this particular case and NGC has been given a stake. You notice that BP sold part of its stake, the same proportion on the Venezuelan side to ngc. So they now have as a unitized feel you will be able to extract that. That however is only 1 TCF of gas. And we have to remember that will only be for medium term. It's not enough to really solve the problems of the gas shortage and the curtailments that we experience in Trinidad and Tobago's energy sector because it's only one TCF we're talking about. And usually if you look at the decline, the natural decline in these in gas fields in particular, you're going to find that this is more medium term.
Medium term project that will allow us just to what we say maintain the plateau right in terms of the supply. We need bigger projects whether it's Dragon, the Calypso, even Loran on the Loran. Manatee. Manatee Again to although it's coming in 2027 that's bringing in only the local side, the oil gas and that will only again supply will not reg solve the the shortage is used. But coming back again to what the call is saying in terms of. I noted that the announcement so far is saying how they're going to allocate a significant amount of the of the coquina mannequin will go to LNG to sustain the LNG operations. And you know I think about 30% might will be going to the petrochemical sector. But we have to you know the important issue here is what are our policies in terms of gas allocation and again, in terms of that gas allocation, how we acquire that gas and at what price and how are we going to sell it back to the downstream sector to ensure that they continue to be viable because they were only viable based on a certain gas price. And you have seen that being played out in terms of the shutdown of a number of plants and it was because they could not agree on gas price at this point in time. And you know that mismatch between NGC and the downstream sector will become very is becoming more and more important every day.
[00:31:01] Speaker B: And we see that as we look for sustainability with our economy in this country. Ms. Caroline Sipasad Beijan, former Energy Minister, I want to thank you very much for accepting the call and the invitation to be here with us this morning and share some insight. No doubt as this energy conversation unfolds in the future, we will be looking towards you again to your learned self to explain more and tell us about some of these developments that we may not totally understand as you can share some insight with us as we continue to keep our eye on the economy. So Ms. Bacchan, I say thank you and I wish you all the best in the week ahead and we will talk in the not too distant future.
[00:31:41] Speaker C: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me this morning and it's pleasant. Good morning to you and all your listeners. God Bless.
[00:31:47] Speaker B: Amen. Thank you. With that being said, that concludes our interview this morning. We take a quick commercial break. When we come back, we shouldn't be able to talk quickly. And then we get to the news at the top and your sport report.
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[00:32:50] Speaker A: Tune in Tune in to betterments with all space Monday through Thursday 12pm to 3pm for a program that educates and is solution based. Bass tackles the issues that matter to you, providing a platform to speak your mind and find solutions that's betterments with base with a focus on education and resolution. This is all about making things better for you. You can reach us via phone and WhatsApp to share your thoughts and find solutions to the issues that matter to you. So if you want to make a difference and have your voice heard, tune into Freedom 106.5 FM and join us for betterment with BAS Monday through Thursday from 12pm to 3pm better for you only on Freedom 106.5 FM where we believe that your voice matters Cricket Fast
[00:33:39] Speaker F: get ready for the biggest party in sport. The Trinbago Knight Riders are back in action in the 2026 Republic Bank. A CPL T20 CNC3 is bringing you every TKR match live.
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[00:33:57] Speaker D: six of the day
[00:34:01] Speaker F: and watch every six, every wicket and every game changing moment.
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[00:35:58] Speaker A: When you need the independence to speak your mind, you take it on the all new new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5 FM.
[00:36:19] Speaker G: Good morning, Davy. Davey, I, I just have a quick comment. I think the meters should be regulated for water flow. I think everybody should have a meter because without these meters a lot of people are getting illegal hookups with water supplies and that's wrong. The other thing is that a lot of people have swimming pools these days. And it's not just in Port of Spain like it was in the 1940s, 50s and 60s. Now it's all over. Even some villages with well to do people, they have swimming pools underground, like in ground swimming pools and some people have above ground swimming pools. So water supply needs to be regulated heavily.
The other question I have is this. It's kind of outside, but when you have these polls on the radio, right, and you're asking questions that are pertinent to the local population here, and then you get people from other countries who used to live here, maybe they're Trinidadians, but they're living abroad now and they're voting on issues here.
I don't know how relevant that is because they're not living here anymore. More they're paying taxes over there, they're paying for their own water supply over there. So I mean, when they vote here, how is that impacting our locals here? Or maybe they have property and they're renting it out or what? But I mean, somebody far away in India voting on a local policy here, it's kind of an oxymoron if you ask me. All right, that was just my comment.
[00:37:44] Speaker A: The best insight, feedback, accountability, the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
