Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5. As I said to you, we do have an interview that's starting at this time, and it's with someone we've spoken to on numerous occasions. She has a pretty interesting article in today's Guardian newspaper, opinion on page 813. It's headlined in our leaders we trust, question mark. I don't know how many of you have had the opportunity to read what was said this morning. A bit of it, actually. Much of it relates to what's going on with the front page story. Rushton Parry, his comments, his calls for the election and Ramona Ramdial's opinion. Let's welcome her to our program here this morning. Good morning to you. Welcome back to the show.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Hi.
[00:00:51] Speaker C: Morning. Satish Morning to all of your listeners. It's a pleasure to be here this morning.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: It's nice to have you with us here this morning. We'll get to the nitty gritty of your article this morning, your points of view. Correct me if I'm wrong. Were you once an elections officer for the UNC or involved in. Yes, you were?
[00:01:12] Speaker C: Yes, I was. I served as the elections officer from 2010 to 2015.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:01:22] Speaker C: And I also served as the director of the party school during that time.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Okay. You would be able to tell us, what's the protocol? What's the modus opera? How does it work when it comes to national executive elections? Somebody sent us some information saying that the natics elections have been held since 2010 regularly. But what, okay. Now Rustin Parry has come into the public domain and has made a call that some people are saying, well, Rushton boy, we make that call for you at the party and tell them that they're going to postpone the election. Why ask and why you're saying these things? So he, he has said that the term of the national executive comes to an end in June. Are there things that, according to the party's constitution, which you would know, other things that should have happened already or should be taking place with this timeframe? Is there a time frame that we need to work with or whatever?
[00:02:12] Speaker C: Yeah, there's a process. There's a process according to the constitution, in order for the electoral, the internal elections and those preparations to take place, there is a process that must be followed. Let me initially say that I fully support MP Paris call for the internal election.
And like everybody else, the majority of the membership was, of course, asking questions when misses Posad recessed her. Said a few weeks ago that, you know, an early election was going to be called. I don't know how she figured that one out. And that therefore, the parties in an. On an election footing and nominations were open, and then they would be closed on April 11, and then there were going to be screenings thereafter. So that period satish, that April to June period is also the period that has to be used to prepare for the internal elections due in June. So the process is that a national congress has to be called by the Natics. Now, usually it's called like a month, three weeks to a month before. So we're looking at that month of May, if it is that you're gonna have your internal elections in June. So therefore, when. When the National Congress is called, the political leader will invite all of the constituency executives, and then motions were. Motions would be presented to call the elections, and then a date would be confirmed. At that national Congress, you'll have a voting process, and then the date would be called. Now, what we've seen over the years is modification of a modification of that national Congress, where usually it turned out, and it turns out to be a political meeting with just the political leader speaking at the end, without the proper process of the voting really taking place by the constituency executives. And that usually happens after the political leaders speak. So whatever modifications are made, the point is the National Congress has to be called by the Natics. And when that Congress is called, the natics at that point in time is now dissolved, because now you have confirmed the date for the internal elections and the Natick has the natics. Now, of course, the existing Natics cannot operate. So what was the problem? Satish is that you can't say you're going to have screenings in maybe for a general election, when in that same month, you need to have the national Congress to call the internals then that NAtics would be operating illegally and not according to the constitution.
[00:04:52] Speaker A: Because.
[00:04:53] Speaker C: So. So you have. That is why MP Paris call and then misses Posad Besessa's statements in public, together with deputy leaders Mooney Lal and Julene John and everybody that you know. And then we saw on social media one or two of the UNC supporters and pages stating that this is not the time for an internal election.
We think it should be deferred because there's a general election to be called soon. So all of these components added to the distrust in the leadership, the current leadership, and hence my article today, the distrust in the current leadership as to the calling of the internal elections. And I want to commend MP pare, MP Ragbear, MP Rodney Charles and as of this morning, MP Anita Haynes, who came out in support of the call.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: You see the reason why I'm asking you these questions? Um, because initially, when I announced that you were going to be on the show, people, people get all up in their feelings and all kind of thing about Ramona Ramdial, and she don't like this one and that one. And I told them, I said, listen, I throw no line for nobody, but at the end of the day, we need to find out what needs to happen. And Rushton Parry, Rushton, pare to his credit or describe whatever, whichever side you sit on is not one to be known for controversy and Bacchanal and all of this kind of movie long talk, because he has not exhibited those traits in anything that he has done while in office politically. So for him to take this stance, it goes against every grain of his performance thus far.
And I've been asking, and he's supposed to join us tomorrow, but you're giving us the information here now as to what indicators he might have been using to come to the conclusion that the UNC is not going to have these internal elections. And you outlined it clearly, the process that needs to take place. And the two processes can't happen at the same point in time.
[00:06:58] Speaker C: It can't. It can't. It can't. It has to be the internal elections first. And then you screen, then you let that new natics move forward with the screening of the. If you want, if you still want to stick to having early screenings, then the new natick should be charged with that responsibility. Now, there's something else that I need to flag satish to your listeners and to the public this morning. Misses Prasad be Sassan I said it to another media house last Friday, has never deferred an internal, since she assumed leadership of the party. She has always called the internal elections when due, and therefore some sort of panic would have been created this time around when she herself would have said on a political platform, well, we are getting ready for a general elections and we're going to be screening this month and that month and so on. So that's one thing. The other thing is, however, when she, when the national Congress, at the national Congress, they usually move a motion to pull the two elections together. So as it is right now, according to the constitution, the Natick says every two years, that is due in June this year, and then the position for political leadership is due next year because that's every three years now. Usually when the National Congress takes place, a motion is moved to pull up the political leadership elections. And that took place in 2020 and in 2022 also where both elections were done. So that's another thing that we would need to look at and see because there's a strong possibility that misses will also call the political leadership position for the internals together with the natics elections of this year. So that is something also that we need to take note of.
And if so, well, then that would be a full on process for the party, a full change management process for the party.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Yeah, we need to take a quick break. But when we get back, we delve deeper into this, because the narrative that's coming out from some people is that these processes that you've outlined, some people are, and the supporters as well as persons within naticks and MP's and senators and everybody else, they are already in their minds of an opinion that it will make a difference whether we have these processes or not.
And that's an interesting perspective to have when it comes to a democratic process. We'll speak about that some more when we get back after these messages. Our time is 28 minutes after that time check brought to you compliments JTA supermarket.
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[00:10:15] Speaker A: We definitely welcome JTA to our program here this morning. Nice to have you with us.
And also with us, our special guest, Ramona Randreal, former minister, former MP. So as I was saying to you, you can't help but look at some of these comments that have been made. And, you know, there's a saying, I think Dodd protested a bit too much. And you really have to ask yourself the question whether or not, and it was a poll question this morning, whether or not what Rushton Parry has asked for is really that bad and if it is warranting of the vilification that he has faced, even, even this morning. I see there are MP's issuing their press releases and telling Rushton that it's ill time and it's this and it's that and the next and the other. And you can't help but ask yourself why, why is there the need for all of these MP's to come out now and to further inflame the situation?
Because I thought after the political leader made the comment that. Listen, you know, I was saying here this morning that misses Posadi says that to her credit, has held national executive elections when they need to be held. There was no need or there is no need for all of these MP's now to come out and. And for people to probably be of the impression that, yeah, all the batting and all the crease because nominations coming up just now and everybody wants to be any political leader. Good books. But there's a lot at stake in the general election of 2025 or whenever it's going to be called. And the UNC has said that it is the government in waiting. And there are persons who are of the opinion that they aren't too happy with the way the country is being run. Property tax has made a lot of people unhappy. And they want a change in administration because they believe that is going to address some of their concerns. And that is why these discussions about the natics and the UNC and what they do and their preparations and their readiness and everything else is so important. But what's your take on some of the pronouncements that are being made by MP's and senators?
[00:12:22] Speaker C: Yeah, well, like you, I was surprised when there was this frenzied sort of response from MP's supporting her. Because as we all know, and the country knows only the natics elections that is due in June. So when I read those press releases and I saw that we are fully committed to the political leader and we support her and she's the only person to take us back into government. Mind you, having lost two general elections before that, I was quite piqued by why they were coming out to endorse her. Because their press releases was, you know, they were all about endorsing her. So I suspect that, true to form, that when misses Posad be Sesa were hoping make the announcement at the National Congress sometime later on in April or early May, that she would be in fact calling the two elections together, both the natics and the political leadership elections together at once.
So that is why I feel that there is this frenzied sort of promotion of the leader. Because usually that is what is done. You also mentioned Satish about why the call for the internals. And I want to say the MDs, MP's who have come out and MP Pari who have come out to. To call for it, they know more than us what is taking place on the inside. They would have feedback from their counselors, from the chairman. They would have feedback from the constituency executives and they caucus regularly, so discussions would have been at the table. And therefore he saw it fit at this point in time to call for the internal elections and also to make the statement that we need the best version of the UNC to move forward to beat the PNM in 2025. Say that I fully support that statement, especially because it is the same team, the same current leadership, the same natics, the same campaign manager, the same PR people, the same constituency executives and the marginal seats that have not changed since 2015. The majority of them still sit. So it is basically the same team who have been losing. Under their guidance we've been losing. And under their campaign strategies, we've been losing general elections since 2015.
So there is an urgent need, more than ever now, to change that, have that change process take place from the lowest level within the party to that leadership level, because we can't. I don't think anybody could stomach a third term of the p and M post 2025. I don't think anybody can stomach that.
[00:15:11] Speaker B: But there are some.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Okay, go ahead. No, go ahead.
[00:15:15] Speaker C: And history has proven, I mean, the track record is there. Misses Prasad Bsenser has never won a national election since 2012, when we lost the the in 2012. And then after that 2013 by election with Jack Warner. And you know the history as it is. So under her leadership, we have been unable to win national elections. The best we have done is to tie at the local government elections level. And we tied this time around even. And despite Gary Griffith and Jack Warner supporting Misses Posad be Sesa.
And we need to ask, if those guys weren't standing next to her, what would have been the results of the local government elections? It would have been worse, right?
[00:16:00] Speaker A: Well, there are some who are suggesting that, well, if you really want to beat the PNM in the next election, the overtures that are being made and actions like those of Rushton Parry are not going to help. What's your opinion?
[00:16:17] Speaker C: No, I don't believe that. Because in 2010, again, we need to remember history and we need to look at the past and the evolution of the UNC. In 2010, the internal rumblings misses posad recess. A challenge. Mister Pandey. There was pressure to call the internals then. Many people don't remember that. In 2009, Ram, Jack G. And that faction with Ramish, Lawrence Mirage, Jack Warner and the others, they mounted a campaign constituency to constituency. Gypsy, Rupert Griffith, all of those guys. And they mounted a campaign to call and to put pressure on Mister Pandey to call the internals because they were facing the same hurdles and that culminated to an internals being called and of course, misses Posad Besessa and whatever took place there. Misses Besad be Sessa emerged as the person from the collective, from the whole as the person to challenge Mister Pandey. And that happened. And Misses Prasad be Sessa won. But there was a campaign that came a year before and I was part of that campaign. As a youth member, I was part of that campaign. I traveled across Trinidad and Tobago with Misses Posad visas and the team and Suraj and everybody to call for that internal elections. It was called. And do you know what that triggered satish? That triggered Mister Manning calling an early general election in 2010.
We had won in January. He called an early election for May of 2010. So we had less than three months as a new natics to get everything together, to forge the partnership, to talk to our partners out there and to move with the leadership of Kamala and Jack and others who were the seniors of the party. I went to Tobago with Jack Warner. Kamala Posadi says that doctor Moonilal to speak to Ashwood, Jack to broker that arrangement with top. I was there. So I know exactly what took place and what it took out of us. And right now, the entire nation want to change. The entire nation wanted to change. They were fed up of the PNM. They wanted change. So they gave support. The political parties and the opposing forces and the unions and everybody gave support to the UNC. And we came together via that Faizabad accord. And in less than three months from winning the internals, we were able to trigger an early election call. The early election. And we won 29 seats. The greatest majority at that time with misses posad recess under a new leader. 29 seats.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: Well, therein lies the overall challenge. Because back then, Basdeo Pandey had already postponed the leadership elections. I don't know the national executive elections as well. For a number of times.
In this instance, it has not yet been stated. Even though what she's suggesting is that the chain of events suggests that the internals are not going to be held. But the internals, that's the first hurdle. Because Rushton Parry, if the national executive elections are held, can put up a slate, and if the leadership election is held in tandem, can contest. But winning that election is an uphill task. And that's describing it very mildly, because.
[00:19:37] Speaker C: Yes. So that's another hurdle that we would have to deal with when the elections are called. Because as you know, in the past there have been allegations of rigging I myself have experienced discrepancies with the electoral process under, when we ran with Basant in 2020, then with Fuad Khan in 2022, there were two membership listings. We have to make sure that there is one membership list given to all of the challengers. Then there were members who were being called by the Star team to say, do you support us?
And they were being sent text messages. I have records of those text messages. So it's quite the electoral process alone we have to deal with, legally or otherwise deal with sorting out the discrepancies of that leadership process. And therefore, we need to look at a third party hosting those elections and an independent body hosting those elections. We may need foreign observers like how misses Posadi says, I have called for foreign observers for the national elections. We may need observers for our internal elections because it has been quite an unfair process as a candidate, a past candidate, who has always, you know, put her hat into the ring and fought and experienced those discrepancies. So we will need all hands on deck to deal with those discrepancies to make sure that there's a free and fair elections.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: It boils down to how much support is there for this perspective that Kamala Posadbi Sessa needs to be moved in order for the party to win, because you hear voices, you do. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, and really and truly, it's the UNC's membership that needs to decide who they want to run the party. When that democratic process, if we can describe it as a democratic process, because that's what it should be, is conducted. We have all kind of variances now. But I remember bars de Upande because back then, that was my television days. And I remember speaking to Basdeo Pandey, and even Basdeo Pandey had a problem with the internal election. And he was saying that.
So it seems that that's a recurring.
[00:21:56] Speaker C: You know, you are aware, I mean, the membership listings, I have, all the versions from 20 20 15, 20 20 20 22. The Pandey's name are not on those listings. The entire Pandey family name has been cut from those membership listings that I have. So, I mean, he's right. If he's the founder of the party name, not only membership lists, what do you expect the man to say?
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Okay, but let's, let's look at the future. Let's say, let's say the elections are called because track record suggests that Kamala Posabi saysa does the right thing and she's been doing the right thing when it comes to these elections. And this election is called.
No, forgive me, I do not think that there is this groundswell of support within the party that will carry Rushton, parry or any slate he supports into office.
[00:22:44] Speaker C: Because I beg to differ. Tell me.
[00:22:47] Speaker A: Tell me why you beg to differ.
[00:22:50] Speaker C: Because we have been getting feedback. We have been on the ground. I mean, as a former MP, when I go out there, people are not me alone. Everybody, everybody is disenchanted with the performance of the opposition UNC. I mean, I've even heard it in comments on this program, both from your listeners and, you know, your good self. There's a disappointment in how the UNC opposition operates, how they take on national issues. Why is it in eight years, we have not been able as a party, to have a national march of strength of numbers to mobilize the country on any one national issue?
Why we have one when petri trend closed down in 2018, why it is that the party was unable to mobilize a national march. That's a simple thing, a national march. I think I was the only UNC MP that held Roger hand in Coover when he passed through Coover with the union in his protests against the closure of Petrochin. Why is it that the party would not. Was not able to mobilize a national match? Property tax. Let's look at property tax. Everybody complaining about property tax. The party, they're talking on the Monday night forum, why the party has not been able to organize a national march on property tax similar to that of section 34. When Doctor Rowley was there and he had the section 34 March and the whole country came out and he was able to get those opposing factions to come out. And you had Philip Alexander and Kirk may go and. And Abdullah and everybody marching with Rowley in 2017, 2016 for section 34. Sorry, before that, 2015. So why is it the opposition has performed poorly? Everybody will tell you it's like the weakest opposition we have had in the history of Trinidad and Tobago, and our membership is disenchanted by that performance. Well, one other example, in eight year Satish, why is it that the political leader has been unable to bring a motion of no confidence against Keith Rowley and against the government? Why? And Keith Rowley, he boasts about this. You know, he made history. He said, I am the first prime minister where there's been no motion of confidence ever filed against me in the parliament. Why? Why is that? As a sitting opposition MP, when I raised that question in caucus during my tenure as an opposition MP. I was shut down. I was told, oh, that can't happen. And for whatever reasons, I don't know why. I don't know what, what it is. I still trying to figure out why an opposition who likes to say that they are the voice of the people and that they, they represent people and whatever it is they have been unable to bring a motion of no confidence in the eight years, nine years. Next year will be ten years in all opposition and no motion of confidence ever filed in Wurawli and the government.
[00:25:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:49] Speaker C: Why?
[00:25:50] Speaker A: Okay. To take the discussion back to what we're dealing with here and as we wrap up this, because after the break, I want to ask you something about was and what's going on and this billion dollars I hear they want to spend because I want to get your views on those. And it's already just about 15 minutes before, before nine. What do you think? What do you think?
[00:26:10] Speaker C: Yes, Wasa?
[00:26:12] Speaker A: No. Well, forget Wasa yet. We ain't reach wasa yet. We can reach Wasa after the break. But when it comes to this whole big brouhaha taking place now with Ethan Pare and you suggesting that the timelines suggest one thing, can this matter be amicably resolved?
[00:26:26] Speaker C: I from again, from my experiences within the party, what you mean amicably resolved in terms of what calling the internal.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: The internals are called and you don't have the friction between the, the general election screening and the natics election and all those things. Can it happen or is it time just.
[00:26:45] Speaker C: Well, what, this is what we're trying to get the force, the hand of the leadership to call the internals first, according to the constitution, and then deal with whatever you want to deal with after. But it must be a new natics according to the constitution moving forward. You can't have a natick screening people for a general election that is doing 17 months or we don't know when because only Doctor Rowley could tell you the date. So I don't know if you know, misses knows something that we don't know. But you can't have a natics coming to its end of term expiry, its end of term screening people for a general election in 17 months. It does not make sense.
It does not make sense.
[00:27:30] Speaker A: Let's take a couple messages and when we get back we shift our focuses, but we'll take one or two calls before we get back into the, well into the discussion and with Wasa because there are some things that I definitely want your opinion on. One of those is this announcement. We heard of a billion dollars to dig a well and to do two desalination plants and everything else and that and some other things. Our guest here this morning, for those of you who may have joined us within the conversation, former MP, former minister Ramona Randrial. A couple quick messages and we'll be right back. Stay with us.
Welcome back. A special guest this morning, former MP, former minister Ramuna Ramdial. Let's take one or two of your calls quickly. Hello, good morning. Morning. Satish and morning to misses Ramdial, Princess Tong.
[00:28:12] Speaker C: Morning. Morning.
[00:28:13] Speaker A: How are you doing, misses Ramdial? If you could share with us what is the status of the youth arm and the woman's arm of the party in terms of their election? Thank you, princess.
Give me a call.
[00:28:26] Speaker C: Well, you see, that's a very important thing because after the 2022 internal elections, there was supposed to be a woman's arm election and a Utah election. Those two elections usually take place after an internal election of the natics. There were no elections. What I understand, and from what the public know, there was a fallout with the Utah, current Utah chair, the then Utah chair, and he defected to the PNM for the local government elections. There was. And then there was, I think, by selection, a new u term chair. So I'm assuming that in that ex would have taken a decision not to go into an election for the U term chair because of what transpired and then a selection would have been made. With respect to the women's army election, though, it's a little more blurry. You heard absolutely nothing. I don't even know who the chair of the women's army is at this point. I know that the vice chairman of the woman's arm operates as the chairman of the woman's arm. And they have been quite, very quiet, very dormant, not taking on the opposition, on anything at all, not saying anything. Not. I haven't. I haven't seen anything really. I saw misses Prasad be Sesa, actually, for me, from my personal experience, wrote an article last week. I was quite shocked. I think that may have been her first article penned article in the Express. I think it was on talking on women issues. So you need your woman arm to be woman's arm, the chairman to be doing those sorts of things. Not really the political leader as such. I mean, yes, she can and she can pronounce and speak on anything. But to see an actual article, you really leave that for the woman's arm to do. So, yes. Those two elections are pending. It's long overdue and we need the new chairman. The electoral process to take place for those two youth armchair and the women's armchair.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: Nobody there. 6273 223-625-2257 I don't know if we have time for another call, because I really want to get your opinion on what's going on with Wasa. We've been hearing about the restructuring of Wasa for a couple years now.
They've set up a inter ministerial team to make recommendations, and we've been given bits and pieces of what's taking place or what is to take place, but not necessarily the kind of overhaul that one was expecting when it comes to Wasa. Now, this latest announcement that Wasa is going to undertake a billion dollars plus in spending and they're going to build a well and two desalination plants. As somebody who was actively involved in Wasa and water production and water resources and everything else, what's your opinion on this plan that was announced?
[00:31:10] Speaker C: Well, let me start by saying that what I saw is that it is via an IDB loan again.
So for the desal plant and the drilling of wells. So it's not monies to be expended directly, but of course, monies to be paid in the future to be repaid with respect to the financing for the project. Now, as we all know, Satish Wasa has had a lot of challenges. Even when I was there, we had our shortage issues, especially water shortages, especially during the dry season. I think what has happened is that the population has exploded over the years in terms of new developments being built, and the distribution network of Wasa has been unable to meet the needs of the population. And therefore, there are a number of things that needs to be done in order to ensure that the distribution networks of wass is efficient. So I was just reading about this water trucking racket that was going on down, I think, Mondiablo and south, with some communities having to pay for water, even though there is a pipeborne supply available. With some Wassa manager, it's alleged taking off the they stop cork and preventing water from getting through to the pipelines. So that is something that the minister has to deal with, and I think he's dealing with it in the, in the correct way.
But with respect to this new project, yes, we need more water. That, that's the underlying issue. We need more water.
However, we need to trap a lot of the surface water. The. When rain falls, it's lost, it's not trapped, it's not contained.
So that is something that could be improved in the long term in terms of water collection, even from personal households. The drilling of the wells. Whilst I was there, we had tapped into Santa Cruz a number of underground wells water to get a source supply for that area up in Santa Cruz. So that's an ongoing project with Wasa. When they do their GPS and their data analysis, they're able to tell where there's underground water. And they would go in and drill the wells to add to the distribution and add to the source of water distribution. So that is. But it's an expensive process. I understand that they have discovered some new wells in south and that is what part of the monies are going to be used for. So I'm in support of that in terms of the drilling of the additional wells. Now, the two small desalination plant. That brings into question the efficiency of the salcott, obviously. And you have heard. I have heard that this particular minister, over the years, I've heard him complain more or less about the arrangement with the salcode, the cost that the state has to pay the salcode for money. And then it's unreliable in terms of the water supply to south and central.
So there's two small desal plants. I think one is for Tobago Charlotteville. And they do have an issue with respect to their water supply also. And I think the other one is going down south, the small desal plant. So I think the minister would have been and Wasa would have been advised that, look, this is what we need to alleviate the issue of water, perennial and constant water shortages in these areas. And then it seems as though that, you know, the. The workings and the coordination with the Salcott has not proven to be successful. And therefore they've decided to go this way in terms of trying to increase their own source of water, rather than relying on the Salcott and not having a reliable supply.
So they've decided to go this way to do it. So it's via that IDB loan, it's again, money and debt for the country, something that you don't want to add to.
But it seems as though that's their only solution at this point in time. Because, as you said, we don't know the full details with respect to the arrangements with the Salcott. What can be improved? What are some of the issues there that is hampering the salcod from improving their delivery to the people of Trinidad and Tobago?
[00:35:25] Speaker A: We are definitely going to have, or we're going to need further discussions on generally WaSa and some of the challenges and everything else. And I'm positive some of the other political developments that are going to happen. But this is where we dropped the curtains on our interview with her this morning. Thank you for being with us. It was an interesting interview, not as emotional as some people thought it might have been, because it was about getting the answers, finding out what the processes are, and determining in our minds whether or not what we're hearing is really the truth. Thank you once again for being with us, and we'll speak to you again.
[00:35:56] Speaker C: It's always a pleasure. Satish. It's always a pleasure.
[00:35:59] Speaker A: Okay. And that's where we dropped the caterings on our interview with former government minister MP Ramona Randial.
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