Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5 we welcome to our program this morning. They've been with us before and let's welcome them back again. We have Head of CARICOM Single Market and Economy Unit, the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs. That's Ms. Joanne Brooks. Good morning to you.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: Good morning Satish.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: And we have with us as well CARICOM Single Market and Economy Specialist Ministry of Foreign Caricom Affairs. That's Mr. Brittany Peters. Nice to have you with us here.
[00:00:36] Speaker C: Nice to have you. Good morning.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: And this morning we're discussing CARICOM Single Market and Economy implementation and procedures. It's a forum to be held in this country and it takes place during the period the 18th to the 21st of March 2025. So, sounds pretty interesting.
So tell us this National Consultation on CSME implementation, the arrangements and procedures sounds, as I said, interesting. What's it all about?
[00:01:05] Speaker B: All right, so just to clarify some definitions, the CSME stands for the CARICOM Single Market and Economy.
It's an arrangement between a member States. It came into effect in by the Treaty of Chaguaramis in 1989 when heads agreed at the granance at the meeting of heads and granance and declared that they would accelerate the economic integration and functional cooperation between Member States.
Part of that there are nine. There are nine functions of the Treaty of Chaguaramas, nine protocols which each Member State is obligated to implement.
It allows for the free movement of capital, goods, services, persons and the right of establishment. Now if we take our minds back to the post Covid era when economies all over the globe were severely, severely implicated and severely most of them were in need of resuscitation.
Heads met for the Prime Ministerial Subcommittee on the CSME which is chaired by Prime Minister Mia Motley.
Heads agreed at that meeting that the region needed to resuscitate its economies and that the full implementation of the CSME the protocols in the revised Treaty of Chaguaramas was our best bet for generating increased development and growth.
Therefore, Prime Minister Motley undertook to contact her colleague heads and provide each Member State with a list of outstanding areas for implementation. She also mandated the CARICOM Secretariat to take a high level delegation to Member States to discuss ways in which we can remove the barriers to implementation so that we can accelerate the rate of economic growth in the region.
And that is where we are today. Our assessment and consultation will take place from the 18th to the 21st of March in Trinidad and Tobago. Well in Trinidad. And also we will be traveling and taking the delegation to Tobago to meet with stakeholders there.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: You know, I've had the opportunity to attend CARICOM events as part of the media. They are so vibrant.
[00:03:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: Unless you've experienced them, you can't understand what goes on at a CARICOM event. You have people from across the region and they come together and you get to meet people from places that you may never visit. And if you start island hopping, you get addicted to it and you really do and you want to visit all and all this kind of thing. So I understand the synergy that goes along with CARICOM nations coming together and all of the objectives. But the consultations here at home, what are we seeking to achieve?
[00:04:35] Speaker C: Well, during the consultations, as Ms. Brooks would have said, the CARICOM Secretariat, actually delegation will be led by His Excellency Wayne McCook, who is the Assistant Secretary General of the CARICOM Secretariat and a high level delegation. And what they're really seeking to do here is to assess the level of implementation of the csme. The different facets of the CSME in Trinidad. So for example, that is the free movement of people trade. So with the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM affairs, we deal with the movements of people within Ministry of Trade. Of course, they do trade in goods. So there are different facets of the CSME and they're coming to assess all those different facets. They're also coming to identify some of the challenges and assist us in developing some solutions to those challenges so that we can foster and accelerate our implementation as well as it's a great opportunity for public awareness, you know, to spread the rights and responsibilities and the benefits of the CSME to all of the CARICOM nationals. As you know, many are not aware of it and it's also a great opportunity for them as well to engage with key stakeholders, so the private sector, the media, the students. So all of these things we are hoping to achieve with the national consultations.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: Who's organizing these consultations?
[00:05:52] Speaker B: The Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM affairs has the responsibility for CSME implementation, for organizing and meeting with ministries and stakeholders. We also have excellent relationships with the CARICOM Secretariat and also with Member States. So we, the Minister of Foreign and CARICOM affairs is also the.
Has the responsibility for implementation for the CSME as well.
So we will be. We have a series of meetings over the four days. We begin with the opening ceremony on the 18th, which will be held at the BRICS. And then we have a series of meetings that day. There will be meetings with Ministers of Government, with Permanent Secretaries and senior officials.
We have an event planned with ue. We like to bring in some sort of academic celebration on the issue of integration. So we have an excellent panel lined up to speak on the issue, if I am allowed to share a few names. We have Dr. LaGuardia, we have Professor Winston Dukeran, we have Professor Bryant, Jennifer Marchand, Trinidad and Tobago's Ambassador Extraordinary and plenipotentiary for Caricom, we have Dr. Kian Skeet and we have Anthony Gonzales.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: So.
[00:07:20] Speaker B: So we have an excellent lineup of persons versed in regional integration and also hemispheric and global issues. So we are really looking forward to that. It takes place on Friday the 21st at the Teaching and Learning Centre at UE from 10 o'clock to noon. And we are also inviting the public to go on our website. If you would like to attend in person, you can register on our website and also on the website of the Institute of International Relations.
And hopefully you will get a seat. But you will have an opportunity to have your seat to ask a question and to hear what is going on in the region. What is coming down, you know, scanning the horizon, what is coming down the pipeline. We know there's a lot of change that can be taking place in the region because of sort of hemispheric shifts and how that is going to impact on our regional integration.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, here at home we, some of us have a love hate relationship with this thing called Caricom and that's because of history. But it's also a sad thing that so many of our citizens have no idea what happens outside of this country. Some of them don't even have an idea. Half of the things happening in the country, much less for outside. And we have citizens who live their entire lives and never even go across to Tobago. That's a fact.
And it's a sad reality because experiencing just a little trip to Tobago is a big deal, you know, because Tobago is part of Trinidad and Tobago, but yet still, when you go to Tobago, the culture is different, the people are different, the society is different, things are different. Just as when Tobagonians come to Trinidad for the first time, it's a culture shock to them. I remember having the opportunity to travel to Antigua for a conference and when I went across to Antigua, the people who came for us at the airport was so proud to tell us about everything that was going on. And they said, as you came out at the airport, there was Stanford bank and it Was it was amazing what Stanford had done. And the lady kept saying that, you know, that there's, there's this new highway and we're going to get onto the highway and whatever else. So we're driving for a long period of time. So eventually I asked the question, well, where is the highway? She said, well, you're on the highway and the highway was two lanes, you know, and, and when you come back home, it gives you a new sense of appreciation for where you live and all that is taking place in this country because we take it for granted, you know. And I went across to St. Lucia for another training and when I went there, there was a small construction taking place where they were repairing a pavement and that was such a big deal for them because they don't have that kind of construction taking place and they call it development. And I watched it and I said, well, that's a regular weekend for ur.
So you understand the differences that exist.
But when we take it back here and the public's participation, why do you think the public should get involved?
[00:10:48] Speaker C: Well, as Ms. Brooks said, well, they have the opportunity at the university to engage in live question and answer discussion. But as you also rightly said, so many people are not aware especially of the benefits of the csme. You know, it's a regime that allows you to move across 14 member states. And currently in 12, we have 12 skilled categories of workers, ranging from university graduates to artisans to holders of associate degrees to household domestics. So there's a broad. And agricultural workers very important at this time. So there's a broad range of opportunities and a broad range of categories that you can move live and work and importantly, you can take your family with you. Right. And it allows you to also stay indefinitely in the member states. So there are so many benefits under the csme and I think that this is a prime opportunity for us to spread awareness of it. The CARICOM Secretariat will also be doing media interviews when they are here. And this week Ms. Brooks and I will be doing a couple interviews.
So we just trying to get the word out about the csme.
[00:12:02] Speaker B: Yes, and I'd like to concur with what Brittney said.
It's very important that our nationals and nationals across the region understand the csme. It's not only about trading goods and services, it's about movement, the movement of people. As Brittany said, We have 12 categories, but also we're looking towards full and free movement. If you would recall the decision made and the announcement made at the 50th anniversary of the signing of the Treaty of Chaguaramas, heads agreed that we will have full and free movement in the region, as they have in the EU and the Organization for Eastern Caribbean States. And there is no real integration without free movement. And so that is very much on the cards. Trinidad and Tobago has been preparing for it, reviewing our legislation to remove barriers to free movement. And it's something that will benefit all of our nationals.
For example, we see already when we digitized our application process where you can stay at home and apply for CSME Skills Certificate. If you're a member of our diaspora, you can be anywhere in the world and apply for CSME Skills Certificate. Which means that as in a member of the diaspora, if they decide to return home, they're not only limited to one country, they have the choice of 14 countries where they can come home, share their skills, bring their investments and their pensions, and it's to the benefit of the region. And. And I think now we are moving beyond thinking of single islands and thinking of the region as a whole, because as we know, we are small and vulnerable and there's strength in numbers and that is becoming more and more evident as time goes on.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: Yeah, the younger generation, getting them involved in discussions like these is vital to the continuation of the work that has been done before and to continuing that work to achieve whatever objectives we set out to.
What are the plans for students and children and young adults?
[00:14:30] Speaker B: Thank you. I'm glad you asked about that.
Since 2022, we have a public awareness strategy that we have been rolling out.
Firstly, we took the show on the road.
We didn't only depend on our website and social media. We went into the community to tell them about the benefits of the free movement regime. And this year, last year, we partnered with the undp. We went, we had. It was called a Wee Ting Caravan and we partnered with them and took the show on the road. We went to rural communities in Siparia. We also went to communities in Chagonas, Arima.
We were in Port of Spain as well. And we have done a series of interviews, social media blasts, any opportunity we get with any partner. We were at the Agri Expo last year, we were at the Cal.
What is it? Career Fair. And so we take that part of our remit extremely seriously. That is why, you know, we are happy to partner with anyone who would like us to come to their community, would like us to come to their business, because there's so many aspects of the CSME that is beneficial even to the individual and we want to share the Word about that.
[00:16:02] Speaker C: Yes. And just to add on to what Ms. Brooks is saying during the national consultations in the opening ceremony, we have invited students from four schools to witness the opening ceremony, to hear the remarks from the Assistant Secretary General, to hear remarks from our Minister, the Minister of Trade and Industry and the Attorney. And the Attorney General. Sorry, you know, so that they can get, you know, an understanding of what the regional integration is all about as well as we would be over in Tobago. And we will have an engagement with secondary school students there and a live question and answer segment as well, where they'll be able to directly engage the CARICOM Secretary at any delegation on the csme.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:49] Speaker B: And we also have the CARICOM ambassadors, youth ambassadors, who will be engaged and will be taking part in many of the events that we are having.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: I had the opportunity to speak at a career day at a secondary school last year and one of the things that I noticed is that so many children have unrealistic expectations of what exists after school.
Because we continue to tell children the same things that we told them 40 years ago. And the school system prepares them for a perception that existed 40 years ago, but there are so many different avenues now, so, so many opportunities now that did not exist back then. And bringing children and when I said I'm using the term children, secondary school children, inter. Events like these can open a world to them that they never knew existed.
And I find that to be such an inspiring thing.
They are going to be blown out of their minds by the grandeur that they're going to see and exposure to these world leaders and what they're going to be saying and all these kinds of things that we can never tell what could come out of this group and they taking that back to them, friends and all that kind of thing. So it's definitely a step in the right direction. But speaking about outcomes, what are we expecting if we can predict to come out of these consultations?
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Right. One of the main expectations, obviously, is to accelerate our rate of implementation. I think having all the stakeholders in the room with the CARICOM Secretariat, the conversation is going to be very much alive and about possibilities. How can we reduce barriers? What do we need to do to implement this? We're going to be sharing best practices and charting a roadmap for the way forward and with some speed as well. You know, I think sometimes there's a bit of inertia and, you know, it's a very complex, fast moving, fast changing international environment as well.
And then of course, all governments have to identify their priorities. Trinidad and Tobago very much is so very committed to regional integration, to deepening regional integration as well. So we already have commitment at the political level and definitely at the level of ministries and the CSME unit. We're fully committed to driving this process forward. And so I think the private sector is also very much included in the conversation and they will be part of the solution as well.
[00:19:54] Speaker A: Somebody's sending a message here about medical professionals and they're being able to move freely.
Are they part of the category?
[00:20:03] Speaker C: Of course.
There are several categories in which they can move. Of course, we have university graduates.
In order to move under the university graduate category, they would have to submit their bachelor's to our E application platform and they would also have to give us a letter from their medical institution. But there's also the category of nurses. Right. If they are registered nurse that they can move under as well.
[00:20:32] Speaker A: Yeah. I could tell you exactly why he's asking that question, because we had the whole conversation this morning about Cuban doctors and that's why the question came about, because we were also. The conversation was about, well, you know, can we get there from other parts of the Caribbean because we need specialists here at home. And there is a category that we just can't cater to and getting persons from within the region to come and assist us. Assist is the correct word, because we do need that assistance to fill the gaps that exist in the medical fraternity.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: Yes. And that is what free movement is all about. Skills will go where they are needed. So, for instance, just coming out of the COVID pandemic time, we saw a lot of movement of skilled nationals in the energy sector. So I think at that period in time, probably about 60% of our applicants were applying for their skill certificates so that they can work in Guyana or Suriname. We have a lot of professionals going out to Jamaica and Barbados as well. I mean, and then we can see who's coming in. So there is movement. And the great thing is that if the movement remains in the region, we're all contributing to the growth and development of the Caribbean. Whereas previously the flow was outwards to North America and to Europe, where chances are the skill and personnel is lost to those countries may probably remain return at the pension stage. But in the region, I see it, I chair the committee, I see so much movement where skills are needed within the region.
[00:22:28] Speaker A: I think one of the reasons this is an important discussion is we continue to hear complaints that we have medical professionals here at home who don't have opportunities or maybe, maybe they don't think that these opportunities exist within the region. It's not something that they consider and maybe it is something that we need to speak more about so that these people won't be frustrated by saying, well, look, I have my qualifications and I can't get a job in the hospital here at home and whatever else, but there are significant opportunities that exist within the region that they should be exploring. And it's not just medical. I mean, we have a number of skill sets.
I have a friend who started off a small woodworking business.
Small, small. And it grew here at home. And he somehow managed to get in contact with someone. He put up a post on social media or something of the work that he did. Somebody contacted him from Antigua.
[00:23:32] Speaker C: Right.
[00:23:33] Speaker A: To come across there because they were putting up apartment buildings. He spends the majority of his time with his workers in Antigua. The bulk of his business now is in Antigua. And I know of a couple of those people who do woodworking and metal fabrication. And we don't think that that's an exportable skill.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: Yes, yes, exactly.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: We think that's only local. We look for a little walk here, you get a little PJ there. And. But these are skills that can bring people significant money by exporting their business.
[00:24:06] Speaker C: And I just wanted to interject here because under the free movement regime, they can move under the category of artisan. But also there's something called the right of establishment which allows you to open a business in another member state. So, for example, if you are from Barbados and you would like to open a business in Trinidad and Tobago, you can apply through the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs. You give us the relevant, relevant documentation and there is a Right of Establishment committee that will review your documents and once approved, you are able to open a business in Trinidad and Tobago. Also important to note, businesses in Trinidad and Tobago, through the right of Establishment, they can employ CARICOM nationals from within the region under technical, supervisory and managerial staff. So there's also an avenue for businesses to thrive within the region. Right. As well as through the skill certificate under artisans. So there are many opportunities.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: So.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: So apart from assisting people wanted to come in here and set up shop. Do you offer the assistance for people to set up shop outside to come to the Ministry of Foreign affairs and say, listen, I want to go, I want to go Guyana, I want to set up garment manufacturing, because just know you're going to need plenty coveralls over there. Do you assist with that kind of thing or can you guide?
[00:25:28] Speaker B: Yes, we definitely. One of our main goals is to ensure that we have an excellent customer service platform. And therefore, if people need advice, if they need to get in touch with the competent authority in another member state, we provide that information and guide them along the way.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I think these interviews are important because people don't, some of them don't even know that that's an opportunity. That's a possibility that exists because you often hear people saying, well, you know, the economy is slow and then they're not getting the kind of jobs that they, they used to get and they're making the money and they don't know what to do. But they don't think that maybe right next door somebody needs what I do.
[00:26:19] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:26:19] Speaker A: And we have a lot of skills in this country.
Yeah, we do have a lot of things.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: When I am reading the list in the committee meeting that takes place every month, even I am surprised, I am pleasantly surprised and impressed with the range of qualifications that our Trinidad and Tobago national qualifications and skills. We're talking on all levels.
[00:26:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So let's, as we wrap up our interview here, I know you mentioned it before, that there'll be some media appearances and so on. Tell us more about that.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: Okay. The media will be at the opening ceremony, they will be at the UE event and we are having a very important wrap up session on the 21st in the afternoon where we will speak about the ESG and the CARICOM Secretariat will give their impression of our level of implementation. They will have an assessment of it and we will speak about the achievements of the engagement.
[00:27:29] Speaker A: Yeah. So as we wrap up, let's tell people once more what's going on with the entire consultation, when it's going to take place, how they can get involved.
[00:27:38] Speaker C: I'll start. So the national consultations will take place from the 18th to the 21st of March. It is a series of events. It's a four day in country mission where the CARICOM Secretariat will be coming to Trinidad and Tobago to really assess our level of CSME implementation, whether that be in the free movement of people, trade and goods, our transportation, agricultural sector.
They will be gaining best practices from us as well as we will be learning from other member states and how they implement the csme. We'll be going to Tobago, putting a.
[00:28:16] Speaker B: Courtesy call on the Chief Secretary.
[00:28:18] Speaker C: Correct. Which is historic.
[00:28:20] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:28:21] Speaker C: As well as there'll be the UE event which we would like to invite all the members of the public to participate.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Yes. And we will be ending with the wrap up session and we will be engaging with the private Sector, the Trinidad and Tobago Manufacturers association have very, very kindly agreed to host that session. And I would like to take the opportunity to thank our sponsors without whom we could not put on this four day event. They are the Guardian Group, the idb, the EX IM bank, the National Gas Company Phoenix park, the European Union, the UNDP for the Culture, our social media handler, the tha, the Embassy of Chile and the uwi. If any companies would like to get on board, it's not too late, we will be happy to, to receive your sponsorship. And let me just say that these companies who have come on board, you know, they have shown a commitment to our regional integration and the development of Trinidad and Tobago. And for that we're very pleased and grateful.
[00:29:38] Speaker A: Ladies, this is where we're going to drop the curtains on our interview. But I'm sure that we'll be speaking again on this matter when the consultations are going through. After the consultation, some of the things that have.
But as one final question, what happens after the consultations?
[00:29:54] Speaker B: Well, that's where the rubber hits the road. We implement as we have been doing, but we accelerate implementation, we review, we implement best practices and we move forward in as short a time as possible.
[00:30:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it's always a work in progress. Yes, definitely. And it's just one of the other steps towards achieving those many, many goals that CARICOM has set its heart on for a long period of time. And for whatever reason, some of these wheels take a very long time to turn. But I guess when you're dealing with so many different entities and they themselves have entities to deal with in their own very region, it's a complex thing.
[00:30:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:41] Speaker A: It's not one administration. Yeah. So I can just imagine.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: And capacity as well. I think financial and personal capacity always is always a factor that we have to take into consideration with our economies.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, ladies, and thank you for coming. And there's always very insightful interviews. The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
