Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: We have with us, of course, Mr. President of the Prisons Association, Jared Gordon, no stranger to the forum. I am so happy to get him back. I did send for you since last week and tell them by Wednesday. Let's make this happen because a lot is happening in the prison space and I feel that we're not talking about it or highlighting it enough. And I think the time has come for us to thoroughly get into that. Now. Let's kick things off. Mr. Gordon, first of all, thanks again for coming back and welcome back to the studios. We see anything that's taking place in the newspaper? Yeah, this gun that was found. We heard somebody was held recently with drones.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I saw that story this morning.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: That story broke with drones that can be used to bring things over the prisons. You know, I never understood how this works. I would imagine that you all perused the perimeter.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: I don't know. I've never. By all intents and purposes, I would love to visit the prison system to see.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: Firsthand.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Don't know how to get that done yet. As a, as a, as a.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: Just write and ask permission. Ask permission to get a tour. Yeah.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: You know.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Right.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: And come in there as a, as a host of the morning show, just to get a consensus and a better idea of what the prison population faces.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: What the officers face, you know, to explain it, to explain it doesn't do it justice. I don't think we have words that could aptly describe what the reality is.
And yes, you see, I don't think people realize the. Now if you know how happy I am and that I saw that story this morning, that the police were able to make that. Through the investigation, make that intervention, that arrest. There's eight drones. This person has eight.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: Nobody.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: And that is one person.
Wow. And I don't believe it's one person.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: Alone, but we get eight of these streets.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: But you get eight.
And the trouble with the drones, and you know that we take a lot of flak. Prison officers, anytime something's. Something happens, the prison officer bring it in. Is the prison officer bring it in. And we have been seeing ad nauseam that that is not the only route. We accept the fact that, yes, we have some rural people who we actively try to get rid of. And you know, I want to say again to the public, if you have any information at all, at all. At all. At all, at all, please share it with the prison authorities or with the police so that we could have these rogue elements removed. Removed.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: Let's get to the crux of the interview this morning as we talk about this 9mm, this firearm that was found, was it Port of Spain? No, it was in Aruka.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: How has that affected. Oh, let's first back it up. Let's describe the danger of that weapon being there when. When that weapon was found. It wasn't found unarmed. You know that that weapon was loaded with at least seven round live round of ammunition. Of ammunition, which means it was intended to either harm other inmates, it could.
[00:03:18] Speaker A: Only be intended to cause harm inmates. Officers.
[00:03:22] Speaker B: Officers. Something like that, yeah. What does it mean for you guys when you all discover that?
[00:03:27] Speaker A: The thing about it, I always like to throw back to 2015 and I am seeing that this is not the first time that we have this issue of firearms behind the prison walls. And what is disheartening for me, especially seeing this year, July will be 10 years since the prison break that happened in 2015 where the inmates shot themselves off Frederick street. Correct. This is 10 years. So in 10 years, notwithstanding all of the requests, begging to be properly resourced, we have spoken about the failing infrastructure. And I don't, I mean, we keep saying it, but I don't think people fully understand how impactful having a properly designed space to hold the various classes of offenders can truly positively impact us. Meeting our mandate, I call for the closure of Port of Spain Prison. So finding the firearm, of course there's a lot of concern and we are saying, I'm seeing it here, that if there's one, there could be more.
And so that in itself does not. I mean, prison officers, generally, we engage an environment that has been hostile for so long that I think that it is not that people are not concerned, they are concerned, but it is almost as if, what is called this thing, Stockholm syndrome, you know, you have been abused so long that you start to.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: Fall in love with the abuser.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: With the abuser.
You know, it really is. It is not a good time at all. It has not been a good time for a long time behind the walls of the prison.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: Let's talk a little bit. You mentioned something there about finding adequate cells or accommodation to separate offenders for various offenses committed in our society. What is the importance and significance of. Of separating remanded inmates per offense, by offense committed?
[00:05:59] Speaker A: Well, I wouldn't even want to say by offense initially.
Let us understand that remanded people are innocent until proven guilty. The state has not proven these people guilty. And I cannot stress enough the dangers that we continuously face by Having this group of people, you know, we say, when the police hold you, you know, the police say, I lock you up.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: You lock up, you lock up. We like to say that that is.
[00:06:35] Speaker A: Not a conviction and we have to be careful. Devi, I can't stress it enough, the psychological mind, the psychology behind somebody who is remanded, somebody who, whether we want to believe them or not, is fighting for their freedom, is different from the man who is convicted. And so if this person is not convicted of any crime, why then is the state having these people in this sort of condition?
These are the questions we have to ask. You know, if I am not guilty, but I am already being punished just by simply the environment in which these people are being held, in which this environment in which the prison officer has to hold them. Because, mind you, the officer, the prison service generally, the officer who interacts with the inmate has very little influence over the environment to make it better. He can't build a new prison. He can install toilets.
He can't improve the security system that is beyond his remit, how they say that is above his pay grade.
So we are caught in a system. So when you talk about the importance, the importance is this.
We have to be able to understand that if you treat somebody as an animal, they are going to behave like an animal. Let us not fool ourselves. The longer we continue to, and I've said it numerous times, we as a people have to decide what it is we want.
And I'm saying, in what we want, what is justice to us?
And if you are saying to me that justice to us is that the police, in the discharge of their duty, arrest someone, place them before the magistrate, bail is denied, they are placed in prison, and then they are kept there. Not one year, Devi, not two years.
You think about how much you would have done in the last 12 years of your life.
You think about that. We are holding people and they have no end date.
The end date could come at the next court date. It could come five years from now.
That level of uncertainty is what is hindering the ability of the prison service now to treat. Because we can't rule out programs really, for the remanded individual. You know, remember, this person is not convicted. We can't rule out a treatment plan for this individual, you know, and we keep skirting the issue.
We keep leaving the judiciary alone, because nobody wants to interfere with the judiciary.
Nobody is speaking about, do they? And I keep saying it, do we have enough magistrates? Do we have enough judges? Do we have enough judicial spaces? What is the issue why is it that we are being burdened as a people with this?
[00:10:13] Speaker B: When I look at the case with Marcia Air Caesar that came up recently with the Chief justice and the Privy Council, she had approximately 52 cases pending, criminal cases pending in the magistrates court. And what that told me is that there are other magistrates that has 85 cases, 72 cases. And they have to listen and adjudicate on all. They also have to read.
[00:10:40] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: And many of the persons on the remand section of the prison, their lives are hidden, hinding, hinging on the magistrate's understanding of what they're reading. Because if you're reading, if the. And remember these people are their personal lives and these. What people don't get. The woman might get horn.
She might be going through a divorce from the husband. The. If it's a, a male magistrate, he having some woman issue, family issue, a death in the family.
I don't, I don't.
[00:11:10] Speaker A: People are living. People are living.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Life is happening. Life is lifing with these people.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: Mickey Mouse.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: And then they now have to sit and adjudicate serious matters that affecting another person, another family's life. So when you talk about, when you make pronouncements and statements such as they are in the prison system and you cannot roll out an effective rehabilitation plan or treatment policy cannot be for these remandees, it simply tells us that our, our system, our judicial system in this country is not working working if we are having persons on the remand section for decades.
[00:11:49] Speaker A: Because this is what we continue to see when you, I mean when you look at other jurisdictions and you know, you run comparison. So you're looking at a system that you, you want to aspire to be.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: Like, are we far from.
[00:12:03] Speaker A: There are clear demarcation between the remanded population and how they are treated and the convicted population, they are even further subdivided because you have people who may be serving less than three years, so they are treated differently, they are in a different sort of environment. And then those who are spending more than three years, even those who may have been convicted of a capital offense, there is a different way that you manage those particular populations.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: Well, let's get to that very quickly. Let's break down the science of it because I want to ask you about your election wish list and I want to get to the parts which your conversations as an association with other political entities. So let's talk a little bit about how do you to help the populace understand what you are speaking about?
[00:12:54] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: And the treatment of these convicted inmates.
[00:12:59] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Your Recommendations, you say treated differently. So walk me through the process of a person that's serving a nine month hard labor.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: Okay, so you're serving nine months hard labor.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Are you in a dormitory setting or.
[00:13:10] Speaker A: Are you in a cell where you are? That is what I'm saying. Our system has no consistency across the length of breadth. You remember, we have ecrc, a converted warehouse. We have Golden Grove Prison, which was our old army base. We have the Reman Yard which was used to hold the old voting machines. All, all of these things have been converted. The women's prison was purpose built. So there's a mix of both cellular confinement and dormitory type confinement at that facility.
When you look at the. I'm not talking about the Utrian center because that going into child justice, I'm not dealing with that.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: We're not dealing with that.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: The maximum security prison was designed for convicted inmates, three to assail. We supposed to have water, there's a shower, there's a toilet in the cell.
But it wasn't designed with remandees in mind. Then you have the Port of Spain prison, 200 years old. Carrera, 200 years old. So the thing about it is that the infrastructure is supposed to facilitate.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: The.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: Trinidad and Tobago Prison Service ability to meet and treat with the varying needs. How do we determine what are the criminogenic factors that led to this man offending? We could only start to have those discussions when the person is convicted.
And then when you look at it, we have no aftercare in Trinidad and Tobago. What is aftercare? There is no monitored release. The person served in nine months and they walk out of the prison, no one there to meet them. Your mother may have passed away, your father may have passed away and you are there left alone. Who is the last people that you were talking to?
The criminals.
And because classification and being able to maintain classification is such a challenge because of space, the, the, and even to do programs for us to be a classroom, something simple as a classroom and a space to be able to know what somebody might be saying. But this is the Prison Officers Association. Are we talking about the, the prisoners and, and what to do with you? The fact of the matter is that you cannot divorce what is happening with the prison population from what is happening with the daily work of the prison officer. In that said environment, you cannot separate the two. And so we find ourselves as a division trying its best to do what it can with zero, with nothing.
And another big factor now that we are facing Davy, is that our officer, we have not had a recruitment for the last five years, pal.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: Within recent weeks, I driving, I'm leaving home because I live up in the East Darby area. I'm coming down the highway, I'm seeing a lot of cars up to this morning, yesterday morning as well, parked outside the prison, lined off by the MSP on the highway.
What is this?
I said I was so happy that you're coming.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: That. That is. Most times they may be having. They may be. They probably. I think they had a search yesterday, another search. So that is what you would see. They would call out officers and they will say, listen, it's only when the officers reach, they will meet them at a particular point and they will take the officers, whether it be. Remember we had a search recently, they had Port of Spain Prison.
So that is. That is what you would have.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Oh, so those vehicles you're seeing, there is basically officers coming from different parts of the country coming in and to get it done. Yes, your officer prison population, your officer population. At the moment, it's, it's.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: We are losing.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: Well, I know you're losing. You're losing about 100 officers. About 120 come next year, between now and next year to retirement previously.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: And then we're losing people who pass away, unfortunately, while in active duty and those who sick, then we losing those.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Who fed up and just decide to quit.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: Yeah, they throw in their papers. All of these numbers are adding to the.
And we have not had any batch, any number of officers gone into the last five years. Nothing.
[00:18:07] Speaker B: Five years. So that large prison drive they had looking for officers, they're still waiting.
[00:18:12] Speaker A: We know they had. We would have done our part and we would have submitted those names and addresses and whatnot to the Public Service Commission. Because I think I need to explain the process for us. We are not like police. So when we have that first interaction, that first selection is just to determine to sift the sheep from the goat. Where you meet the basic criteria, you have the educational background, you meet the particular height.
[00:18:38] Speaker B: What is the educational background to become a prison officer?
[00:18:40] Speaker A: It's three level passes.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: Three level pass. What type of exam? What type? Okay, what type of exams do you have to sit at?
[00:18:47] Speaker A: Public Service Commission. At the entry level, the basic Public Service Commission exam. So it will have a little bit of math, it'll have a little bit of English, it will have some current affairs, a basic examination, and you pass that. Once you pass that, then you are placed on an order of meritless because some people obviously will score more than others. And then we would then do a rounds of interviews where they will get another set of scores again and then those scores are added and the average found and they are placed on the final order of merit. So we get the scores from the exam, we do interviews and then we place them on order of merit list. And then from that list from number one we start coming down. We will start contacting people once we get the approval to commence training.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: And how long does training go for?
[00:19:36] Speaker A: Well, training over the years. That is a kind of pet peeve.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: With me because let me look at the police.
[00:19:41] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: The police to become a TTPS on your shoulder, which is Transbago Police Service. That takes approximately seven to eight months. But you can become an SRP Special Reserve in six weeks.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: Yeah. The thing about.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: So what is the prison?
[00:19:58] Speaker A: The prison I could talk. For me we would have trained for nine months.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Nine months. This is classroom and practical.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: Practical and theory, physical. The whole works. Right. That training of course they would have had some changes and we had batches. Three months.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: I think nine is a stretcher. But I don't.
[00:20:17] Speaker A: But. But the. The thing about it not whether the time. The time is not the issue. The issue for me is is the training truly preparing the individual to one, contribute positively to the work environment.
Two, to be able to deal with and manage all of the challenges that.
[00:20:41] Speaker B: They will face within.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: That they will face within that said environment. Because at the end of the day you want people who could add value of course with them having the necessary support. But what we have happening is that we are training the officers.
When we do train, when they come out into this alien environment.
Everyday officers are doing the wrong thing Davy. To get the job done. Because if.
Let's use an example. I'm working in a division. I'm posted there with two other officers and the division has 250 inmates on two different floors.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: So we. Let's say we have 125. 125.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Right? Right. 250.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: And the three of us and we have to manage food, we have to manage recreation, maybe medicine. But we may have a team. We have medicine meaning making contact with the infirmary to make sure they get whatever special medicine. Correct.
[00:21:55] Speaker B: That we need to. Need to take.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: How we doing this?
How we doing this?
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Three of you all 350.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: How we doing it?
Do you think we could see unlock a manageable amount?
[00:22:11] Speaker B: Can't do that.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: You think we could say if we. Now if we could do that. But what I would. I would love for them to do that. What. But that was A big discussion on one of our chats, that whole thing about ratio and some bright person in government talk about, okay, let's say you have 3,000 officers. You have 3,000. So it's one to one. We're just saying. I just show you all figures, which never happens, but that could, how that is even possible. That's not making sense because you don't have the 3,000 officers on duty to make it one to one, 24 hours a day, right? So you have, so you have, so you break up. So you have three batches, you have the main shift, you have officers working in other departments. Agriculture, construction, garage. We have clerks, we have accounts, you name it.
We have people on vacation, we have people on sick leave.
So when you, when you just do a very coarse calculation, it is more, it is more in the line of 25 to 1, which is not good. No how it could be good, how it could be good? And this is what I've been saying is that.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: And these are dangerous inmates.
[00:23:25] Speaker A: Prison is dangerous. It's not that the inmates are dangerous in a Devi. If you're holding anybody anywhere for a long period of time and they don't want to be there, it's a dangerous. If they hold you. Devi.
True.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: And you don't want to be there.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: And you don't want to be there.
[00:23:42] Speaker B: Anything else could happen because you want.
[00:23:43] Speaker A: To get away, you want to get out of that.
[00:23:45] Speaker B: So let me ask you a question. We would have been talking with the Minister of National Security in the past and of course, falling on deaf ears based on the association for the last nine years or so, you all would have been back and forth toiling with them, trying to get, I mean, it's over five years now and no inmates. Given the fact that we are in election year, have you all, as an association sought any sort of conversations with any other political entities that are aspiring for governance in this country?
[00:24:14] Speaker A: Yes and no. Not, not, not officially.
The challenge with that and, and you know, we have to be careful. I, I took the stand that I am not.
I will engage. But you see, because it's silly season, people want some sort of support, outward support. I can't speak for my 2,700 members. I don't know who is PNM, UNC, Patriotic Front, whatever. But what I will say is, is that we remain very open to having discussions with anybody who is willing to not only listen to us, but action what they say. But action what they say.
[00:25:03] Speaker B: All right?
[00:25:04] Speaker A: That is the position that we take.
[00:25:05] Speaker B: I'm happy to Hear that? Because we have some talks with the PSA president, how she aligned herself with the unc, saying that once she gets into office, she will remove the pnm, et cetera, et cetera. And a lot of persons felt that was suicide. Because should the PNM retain governance on April 29, if that's what we're waking up to on Tuesday morning?
[00:25:26] Speaker A: My thing about it, and this is for me and our organization, our principals, our members.
[00:25:33] Speaker B: Noted. Let's take a call. Hello. Good morning. All right, I'm seeing you. Trying to reach me. Good morning.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: Hello. Good morning.
[00:25:39] Speaker B: Good morning.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Davy, why you wasting your time with these people, man? Come on, it's silly season.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: Good morning.
[00:25:52] Speaker C: Morning.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: Oh, gosh, yes, good morning.
[00:25:55] Speaker C: And morning to you again.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: Morning, sir.
[00:25:58] Speaker C: I feel for your guest, Davy, and that his requests are not being met.
It looks like they have been isolated and ostracized by this government.
And I can't blame him for looking for greener pastures. Politically, this government has failed in many aspects. Not only prison, like taking care of the prisons and building new prisons and so on, but they have failed any whole sphere of crime enforcement as well.
And I watch at El Salvador prison where he has this, this maximum security prison for really deadly inmates, Ms. 13 and trendy Aragua and all those gangsters and them.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:26:51] Speaker C: And they bend their heads down and all these. The prison officers wear masks so they wouldn't be identified by any gang member for targeting outside of the prison.
Are we at that stage, and this is a question for your guest. Are we at that stage in Trinidad where prison officers need to mask up when they are at work? And do we need a prison like that in Trinidad besides the one, the normal prison that house criminals and whatnot? And do we need a prison like, like a jail? Let me say, like you're, you're going on your payment. You can't put a man like that with a hardened criminal who, you know, who kill people.
[00:27:40] Speaker B: And I think that is exactly what he was. What? All right, thank you. And I think that's what you were alluding to. So you care to respond very quickly on this because our person is now asking, can inmates be put to productive work? So we'll get to that question in a little bit too.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: Yeah. So just quickly, we have reached that point long time. We have close to 30 officers being murdered since 1988. Right.
In those jurisdictions. That is unheard of anywhere in the Commonwealth. Look how many prison officers have been murdered in different territories. And you'll see often none. And When I talk murdered outside of work, that don't happen. But in Trinidad and Tobago, it seems to be a pandemic of a different sort where that is concerned. So threats against officers is something that happens daily and we continue to treat with that. What was the question, the person about productive work?
[00:28:39] Speaker B: Right before I get to productive work, somebody is asking, what is hard labor? I've explained this before, but as I have you here as the president of the association, when a magistrate gives you hard labor, now I understand it, but I would let you explain to the listener what is hard labor? What is that?
[00:28:55] Speaker A: Okay, so we have various industries and stuff at the prison, from agriculture, construction, even basic. I mean, the ration room was working, preparing meals, etc. Etc. So once you are given hard labor, that is what you could be placed to do at any one point in time.
And yes, so inmates are supposed to work, be placed to work.
But the challenge we are having is that the conversion rate from remanded to convicted is not what we would want it to be. Another limiting factor is that if we have somebody being convicted who may be there due to some sort of substance abuse, we face challenges where those people may not be able to be placed to work because they can't function as they should in the environment.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: All right, all right. So let's talk about very quickly the production aspect of things. Can inmates be put to productive use?
[00:30:10] Speaker A: Yes, I totally agree with that. But of course, you know, we. When I spoke earlier about that whole conditional release and that sort of thing, we need to look at work release programs that will allow for continued monitoring of the individual even as they leave prison, just before they leave prison. So we could do things like that. It's not unheard of, it's not alien. It's working successfully in a number of different territories. And I believe it's something that we should seriously consider.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: Let's take a look at your election wish list. We are on the heels of an election that's coming up on April 28th. What are you looking for and hopeful about? Should the current government return, we under a different national security officer. But we have to ask it. I don't want it to die a natural death. So you have to tell me your election wish list, Mr. President, what you want to see done and in the quickest possible time.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: I would be.
I don't have a wish list. What? All I want is the same thing we have always wanted, which is that we are no longer ignored.
That the state recognizes the important role and function prisons play in society and so we are properly resourced and outfitted to continue to work for and on behalf the people of Trinidad and Tobago who cannot come and do it themselves. They cannot hold the prisoners. What we have to do is hold, treat with them, rehabilitate them so that when they do come out, they are coming back out into our society. One, that is ready to receive them and give them an opportunity and two, to allow them to contribute to our country and nation building.
[00:32:12] Speaker B: All right, somebody's now asking what amount of money is spent for prison transport.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: That has reduced greatly because we don't really have. We have some courts operating virtually. Virtually. I think the last figure I heard that they get probably was about 20 million or 18 million for the year. Yeah. And that was down from like I think all 80 something million and yearly. Yeah. So it's contrast.
[00:32:44] Speaker B: So is there facilities within the prison system right now to accommodate office inmates attending court?
[00:32:50] Speaker A: Yeah, we have, we have a number. Yes, we have a number of. The judiciary would have set up a number of virtual courts. Just to give an idea. I would have worked at one of the virtual court that one at maximum security prison a couple of years ago that all in the midst of COVID I tell people I get Covid three times because of course we had to continue to work.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:12] Speaker A: But for the month we would have processed probably about 1700 odd matters in one month.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: All right, so that's. So have they made accommodations for that in Port of Spain? Is there a room.
[00:33:29] Speaker A: Yes, there is that in Port of Spain.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: So they have the ability to do the infrastructure and upgrade it.
[00:33:34] Speaker A: Well, not upgrade. I want Port of Spain prison closed down.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: I agree, I agree. But to keep these virtual courts running, you have to have an Internet supply.
[00:33:42] Speaker A: Yeah, they have a very robust system generally. Davy, I think that it is, I mean, giving them some kudos for it.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: But how does that, how does that room affect the, the wider populace that we trying to keep away from outside contact with Internet? Because we don't know the jammers ain't going to work in that room.
[00:34:04] Speaker A: No, no, no, it's not, it's not. They have no access like that. It's not wi fi, everything is hardwired and that sort of thing. So it have nothing like that could happen with that system. The, the IT department and the judiciary, they're doing an excellent job where that is concerned.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: So. And we have the maximum security prison with outfitted with such. Golden Grove outfitted.
[00:34:26] Speaker A: And you have, what about the, you have women's prison and what about that.
[00:34:30] Speaker B: Ecrc they outfitted so if prisoners within being held in these various facilities are able to attend court virtually with their lawyers as well. Lawyers don't come in there?
[00:34:40] Speaker A: No, no, the, the attorney would come on virtually also.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: And they will address matters.
[00:34:45] Speaker A: Yes, we have had cases done, trials would have been complete, person's convicted or released. Yes.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: And once, okay, so once a person is convicted on the remand section of the prison, they're automatically removed from those cells and taken over.
[00:34:57] Speaker A: And then they had to be processed and, and that sort of thing. We had to wait for the warrant to come up still, the paper warrant to come up from the particular.
[00:35:04] Speaker B: So it's not an electronic system where once that is done, you can send them back. You go up, you go up on your computer, you pull it up, access it via database.
[00:35:14] Speaker A: No, it wouldn't get lost. But the thing about it is that those things are signed and managed electronically, but they don't send it up until the end of the day.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: So the prisoner, even though his matter would have been heard at around 9, 30, 10 o'clock in the morning, he goes back to the remand section of the prison and waits there?
[00:35:31] Speaker A: Well, no, if, depending on the determination of the matter, if he is released or to be released on that day, we keep him separate, he's kept separately until we get the confirmation from the court and then he is released.
[00:35:50] Speaker B: All right, so have there been an increase in activities or any sort of infrastructure post finding this gun to protect officers and prisoners alike? What have you all initiated so far? Because the searches are.
[00:36:03] Speaker A: What I've seen is that I don't know. But the lockdown of the prison continues.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: What does the lockdown mean?
[00:36:09] Speaker A: What does the lockdown mean? That the normal activities no longer are being facilitated. Whether it be visits, programs.
You're more in cellular confinement. People are being held within the cells. They may still get their one hour airing, which is part of an international convention for treatment of prisoners.
They receive their meals and whatnot. But there is a complete route rollback on all of the satellite activities to kind of maintain a certain level of control.
[00:36:45] Speaker B: So the lockdown simply means if you're in your dormitories, within that confinement, if you're down on the, on the cell blocks, you're down there, that's it. So there's no visit, nobody's coming to see you, there's no contact?
[00:36:58] Speaker A: No.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: Because it's on a lockdown.
[00:36:59] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: And it's minimal movement.
[00:37:01] Speaker A: Minimal. Minimal movement? Minimal.
As much as possible.
[00:37:06] Speaker B: So you're getting your meals?
[00:37:07] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:08] Speaker B: But the officers, your Car come out. There is no pushback. They understand this. And this is a temporary measure to prevent.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: Well, there's a lot of things happening in the atmosphere, Davy. There's a lot of. And I am certain that because we have been working so closely with the police, they would have been giving us information, we would have been sharing information with them. I don't think the commissioner made that decision lightly. And certainly he did what he was either advised to do or based on the information he received, he decided that this is the best course of action at this current point in time.
[00:37:48] Speaker B: All right, let me hear this. What is B sound is in this prison officer on the radio. He have an answer for any. Every single question you pose them.
[00:37:58] Speaker A: I'm sorry.
[00:37:58] Speaker B: Right, but yet still you have the prison system feeling. But on the air this, you know, I listened to that voice that and I thank you VO texter for sending me that voice note. Now, the prison officer, the president of the association is not that he has an answer for every question that we ask him. He has been making numerous calls for serious upgrades and improvement to our judicial and prison system which seeks to have to serve as safety and security measures to put in place to protect your uncles, your aunts, which is. I'm talking on the prison officer side of things. Your sons and daughters, your dads, your moms who are out there because these are family people. Your son, your brother could be a prison officer in the morning. That's a job.
So he comes on the radio frequency and I will continue to invite him from time to time because we cannot let this die a natural death. We have to have these conversations and if you listen to the conversations I would have had with the president over the last few weeks. We speak on different issues.
[00:39:02] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:39:03] Speaker B: But it transitioned back to the same thing that we need the government of the day, those in authority to understand the severity and seriousness of which we are facing in our prison population. When you're talking about closing down two 200 year old buildings that you worried about him being able to answer a question. You're not worried about whether these infrastructure will fail and crumble at one at some point releasing persons into society who may be seemed as the police just tell you, armed and dangerous.
[00:39:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:31] Speaker B: So you it's how much all this Watch Batman by and watch Gotham City. I carry all your back dog. You know, I mean we just laugh at Batman and, and, and, and when, when they lock up people and Commissioner Gordon put them in the asylum. You ever watch an episode?
[00:39:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:49] Speaker B: And they'll come out, come on a man. It's like watching Ghostbusters. Every goes the lock up if that that whole thing, whether it contaminate, contaminator or container, wherever they put them in burst or blow up, is all them thing coming back out in society. And you're getting a mixture of innocent and guilty persons. Now despite the fact that every remand prisoner is innocent until proven guilty, doesn't mean that every remand prisoner is not guilty, you know, Correct. Some of them are guilty.
[00:40:16] Speaker A: Some of them are.
[00:40:16] Speaker B: It's just up to the state to prove it correct. That's it. And then there are those that are innocent. Jared, I want to thank you very much. We are out of time and we will continue. So to you texter. Yes, be grateful that the president didn't come here and waste time. He was able to answer the best.
[00:40:31] Speaker A: Insight, instant feedback, accountability, the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
