NEW UNC LEADER NEEDED

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5. [00:00:08] Speaker B: Let's welcome to our program Naparima MP Rodney Charles. Good morning to you. [00:00:12] Speaker A: Morning, sir. [00:00:13] Speaker B: Nice to have you. [00:00:14] Speaker A: Good morning to your listeners. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Nice to have you with us here this morning. Our interview with you is one that we should have had. Well, we asked for a long time ago. It's nice to have you with us here this morning. There are several things that we'll discuss with you. You're a shadow MP for the UNC as well. For which area, again? [00:00:34] Speaker A: Foreign affairs and national security. Great. [00:00:38] Speaker B: So definitely we're going to have some discussions there, that's for sure. You were one of the first mp's poured for the call made by Mayara MP Rushton Parry for the executive elections to be held. But even prior to that, you had announced publicly that you're not seeking re election. And that was an interesting development for many reasons. I don't know if you have, maybe you had explained to people your decision as to why you've decided. Well, listen, I ain't going to mark up for this thing, but let's begin there so that we can set a platform for the other discussions that are to come. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Why? [00:01:21] Speaker B: Why would Rodney Charles not seek reelection for what is essentially a safe seat? [00:01:27] Speaker A: Well. Well, there are a number of reasons. The first is that contemplating three terms in opposition is not something I would wish on my worst enemies. Right. Right now, I believe that the UNC is the only vehicle to take us into government and to change the politics of Trinidad and Tobago and turn around the economy, etcetera. So it is the UNC. But I felt that there were need for changes in the UNC to make it the best possible vehicle to win an election in 20, 2025. So that was the reason, number one. The second reason was, I believe that there should be a seamless transformation of leadership in the politics of Trinidad and Tobago. When I look at around the world, including Singapore, the prime minister of Singapore, at 72, has handed over leadership prime ministership to his successor, the deputy political leader, who is age 51, I think. And the third reason, I think if I wanted to help the UNC to be a vehicle for change, that I could do it better outside than inside. Because once you're inside, you are. You have to toe the line. You have to keep quiet. You cannot speak freely. So I think not going back to the election in 2025, give me the freedom to talk. For example, the UNC does not have one functioning party group. The UNC has organs that function in name only, the woman's arm, the youth arm. They function in name only. We have a natty that is totally subservient to the leadership. And in my view, they should not compete with the leader, but they should be able to give her arm's length advice. That does not happen. So what we have is a. Is a decision making process that does not allow for a feedback of information from diverse sources within the party. But. [00:04:03] Speaker B: Okay, now, when did you. Because I'm looking at that timeline. When did you make the announcement that you're not seeking reelection? How long ago was that? [00:04:14] Speaker A: I made the announcement when it was announced that screening will begin. And a lot of us were the view that the internal elections, according to the UNC constitution, should be held by 2030, 5 June. The general elections would have been held in two years time. Right. In November 2025. Latest. And I saw this as an attempt to force, again, individuals to fit into the profile, to keep quiet, shut up, say nothing, go to the election and lose again. And I felt at that time that I had, I needed to make a decision. [00:05:01] Speaker B: You said some pretty interesting things there. One of those. And you may reference to Singapore and the hand of power and all those kinds of things. [00:05:11] Speaker A: Yep. [00:05:11] Speaker B: But the argument has been that there is a democratic process within the UNC to select a leader, and that democratic process is the executive elections for the post of leadership. So. And at this point in time, those. Those elections are not due. Those elections are due next year. [00:05:34] Speaker A: Correct. [00:05:34] Speaker B: So signaling that you're not going up because you're dissatisfied with the present leadership and you do not think that the UNC, under the leadership of Kamala Pasabi Saysa, can win another election, which is something we've heard numerous times from. From various people. [00:05:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:49] Speaker B: Are you suggesting that the democratic process for the selection of a leader within the UNC be circumvented one way or the other? Because if you subscribe to the democratic process, the position should be, let's have the election, let's see who wins and whoever wins, we respect the outcome of the election and move forward. [00:06:10] Speaker A: And I agree with that. And that is why I have, while I may have my views on the leadership, the only thing I've called for is internal elections with respect to NATO, because Natex is supposed to advise the leader in terms of the direction of the party. And if we have the best and the brightest in Natick, the leader would be in a better position to make decisions that all go well for the victory in 2025. So I see. I see no inconsistency with calling for the. But when you, when you call for screening, for example, and we have a Natick election. Sorry, you know me. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Go ahead. [00:06:54] Speaker A: Yeah, we have a Natics election coming. It seems to me that, that incoming Natics, whatever it is that or whoever is in the membership, that Natex should be advising the leader in respect of the screening of candidates, so that to have an outgoing Natex screening candidates for election in 2025, I figure there's a problem there. I sense there's a problem there. So that there's no inconsistency in calling for NATO's election and making a comment on the leadership. And let me also say I am a UNC party member first and foremost. If the NAtics members are reelected, I will abide by the decisions of the new Natics. And if the new Natick says that the screening of the old Katex, the candidates elected, are the best, I will go with that. And if the Natick says that in the elections that they advise the leader that she remains and she goes in 2025 and she holds the election and she wins, we will support her. So the question is, let the constitutional process roll out sequentially, and then all of us will be. All of us will be firm that the membership has decided that this natick is the best, and this political leader in 2025 is the best to lead us through, and she will face the PNM with a full mandate from the membership. [00:08:35] Speaker B: What makes you think that Natick's elections and elections for the post of political leaders going to change what exists? Because you are saying your decision to not run again is hinged on your perception that, well, if things remain the way they are, the UNC is going to lose a third consecutive general election. But now you're saying that if the natick's election is held and the very same people who you don't have faith in now win the election, you will support them, but win the outcome because. [00:09:08] Speaker A: They will be forced to defend their tenure in that kind of debate. The leader will be forced in her elections to give reasons to all of us why she is the best to take us forward. And once you see, you see democracy is an untidy basis of government, but it's the best. We have a leader, and the framers of our constitution were very wise. For every two years for Natex, there must be a refresh button. So the existing natics members have to defend themselves. They will have to argue, present a set slate of policies, and in that process, they become renewed. And our leader, if she goes into election without a mandate, there will be suspicion that she does not represent the views of the entire membership. [00:10:03] Speaker B: But wouldn't she? Okay, I understand what you're saying, that the campaign is going to bring out a track record. People are going to have to defend their track record. Basically, that's what you're saying. But then at the end of the day, you end up with this. It's like if you have a horse race and you're saying prior to the race, well, here we're going see this, what says mean to mean too confident they go win any race, you know, so me, I wouldn't bet on any of them. And then for some reason, there's some process that says, well, all right, these are the best horses and the same horses that you didn't want to bet on before, you're now forced to bet on again. You can't expect different result because these are the very same people that you're saying have led the UNC into defeat so many different times. And if they remain, their defeat is going to face the party again in 2025. [00:10:50] Speaker A: Just one correction. If they remain there on and without a process for them to reinvigorate themselves, we head in for defeat. If we have that Natex and that Natex has lost so many elections and they go back without a review, without an analysis, without the membership pronouncing on them, then we headed for defeat. But if they're forced to, and I'm not saying they will win the election, but if they do win it, it will only be because they have presented a case, a solid case, that the membership has bought into. And as a Democrat, I am forced to go with the. Go with the wishes of the majority. I will give you an example. In the last election, local government election, I'm, 70% of the pop voters decided to park to stay home rather than support us. 70%. Now, the question which some of us are, should we not do a poll and find out why the 70%, notwithstanding all the nonsense that Rowley is doing, preferred to remain at home than support us? [00:12:08] Speaker B: Well, the. [00:12:09] Speaker A: When you raise this question to the present NAFTA, we are told, no, that doesn't arise. We've won the election. We've won the election. What Charles is talking about now, if we have a democratic process in which Natasha has to defend why it is, you were part of a process that presented a slate that the majority of voters, swing voters, decided that they did not buy into. They did not buy into the PNM and they did not buy into us. And if you could give us a solid defense for that, then okay, we have to go with, we have to go with what the majority say. But I am sure that they will have difficulty justifying a number of decisions. I could give you another example. We have meetings all over the place. They busse in people. They are meeting in San Fernando. It was held at Naprima College. You had people from Sandy Grandi, you had people from Porter spades. You had people from Faizabad. All of them in the meeting. And very few people from San Fernando itself. Contrast that with the P and M. They held a meeting in the panyard. Julia Riguel was at skiffle Bunch. 90% of the people there were from San Fernando. I saw my neighbors, I have a neighbor, doctor, I forget his name. He raised the point about the property tax. He was there. My neighbors were there. There was Chris Kishan Singh, I think head of the San Fernando businessman. So he was there. When we have a meeting, we have people from all over the world talking in San Fernando. So the question is, I would like, and I think the framers of the constitution wanted us to have an opportunity for them to defend us so that, and maybe there is a defense, but in defending that, they will have to think about their modus operandi. And this, to me, orders well for our party. [00:14:14] Speaker B: Do you. Okay, so, so the discussions have focused a lot on whether or not these, our tax elections are going to be held. The position of the political leader. Her comments are that these elections will be held when constitutionally due. And to her credit, she has held, or she has under her ensured that elections are held when they are due. And she has said that this is no difference. The elections are going to be held. Do you think these natick elections are going to be held? [00:14:48] Speaker A: Well, I have to believe my leader. I have to believe my leader, right. If she says it's going to be held and credit to her, let's give her credit, credit to her for saying it will be. But for heaven's sake, give us the date. I have spoken to her and I said, leader, you could defuse all of this. You know, just call a date and put up your slate and hold free and fair elections. So why are you dilly darling with the date when you have given a commitment to it, but at the same time, you advancing the process of screening candidates? And it leaves some with some suspicion that if the politics works in a certain direction, that the NATO election will be postponed. And in fact, we have heard, I have heard actually senior persons in the party saying that NATAs will not be held. Right. So the question is, this could, could easily result. But the other question is. The other question is, will the elections be free and fair? I trust that my party will hold fair elections because we cannot go to the EBC and criticize them. When the EBC publishes a list of all the voters. I'm from San Fernando region. I could go in the grocery in Royal cup and see the names. I could check my name. The EDC gives you an opportunity. The EBC gives you an opportunity. Your name is not there to regularize your status with the office. And the office is on Royal Road, San Fernando. So, you know, before the election whether I could vote or not, and this is the question why we can, we are a little concerned, or I am concerned about the Natex elections. You haven't given the date. We do not have a list of voters. We do not have a closing date for people putting their names on the list. If they are members of the UNC and they want the abuser. We do not know who are the polling division officers. We do not know where they will be located. We do not know about the list and whether people are dropped off. I have been involved in the UNC elections. When people came to vote, they were diehard UNC supporters. And when they reached their turn back, because your name is not on some list. And the question I asked is, it is not only a question. My political leader, my esteem politically of calling the date is starting the process to give us confidence that that team is the key, that reflect not the people on your list, but the membership. The entire membership of the UNC. [00:17:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Is we've had, in the public domain, calls for changes at the leadership level of the UNC before. There's not something new. In 2015, after the general election, there was an executive election for the post of leader, I think in November, December of that year. And that was contested by Kamala Pasadebi Sessa. We had Vasanth Barrett. We had, I think, Doctor Rural Munilal as well, going up against her. That was just after the defeat, and she came out smelling like roses with over 20,000 of the members voting for her. But that campaign began the discussion about Kamala Posad be Sessa's stewardship. So many years later. We are having the same discussion. She has been able to. To win every executive election for political leader since then, even though the numbers have been dwindling. I think the last, the last poll, she won by 12,000 votes or something like that, down from 20, 12,000 votes. Yes. So my. [00:18:36] Speaker A: But let me just raise a point there. 12,000 out of a membership of 300,000. Right. And the question I asked, even at the level of the membership, why there is there such disinterest in an election? You see, we tend to judge the future and the present by the past. She won with 12,000. Okay, hurrah. But it means 283,000 and more decided to park their vote. And this is a dangerous statist, that when I talk to the young professionals, the doctors, engineers, there's a professor in UE, a tenured professor. He's Unc. His parents were Unc. His grandparents were DLP. And I tell him, well, we need you to join the party. We need people like you to replace Rodney Charles. And he says, why must I join? To take instruction from who I see there. This. We're not talking about the leader. We're talking about the people who come to you with instructions. The leader say, there are number of people, boy, Rodney, leaders say, do this and, and you're not sure they're acting on their own or they act in with her guidance. My challenge with the leader is that she's a good lady. Right. She has done a lot for the country. We can't deny that. But I suspect that there are a group of people around her whose only hope in life is to be a politician. They won't survive anywhere in any other profession. So they have been able to convince her that she is the goddess Lakshmi, she is the best thing in the world and that. And that she should remain forever and ever. Amen. But. And until the membership, and I'm looking for about 30 to 40,000 people voting. If the elections are free and fair. If that happens and they elect Kamala Prasadi, says Rodney Charles will be first in the line to support her. [00:20:35] Speaker B: Yeah, but do you think there's growing support for this call that has been swirling around for such a long period of time? Because this time around you have some MP's who are calling for the Natox elections first and foremost. These MP's are not necessarily known to be mired in controversy. And I said that to Rushton Pare. He has been more or less out of the public good. Apart from when he makes his pronouncements in parliament and all these other things and issues, his press release. He's not known to be one in Bacchanal. Just as doctor Rai Ragbird, just as. [00:21:07] Speaker A: Anita Haynes, a decent professional businessman. [00:21:11] Speaker B: So here's the other question. You've hinged your decision not to run again based on the status quo that exists with the political leader and the natics and everything else. If by some stroke of divine intervention, these elections are held for both political leader and natics, and there are changes, would you reconsider your position for running the next, in the next general elections? [00:21:35] Speaker A: No, I will not. Because I am genuinely of the view that the time has come for a generational change in the politics of Trinidad and Tobago. And this has nothing to do with old people being irrelevant. It has to do with the problems that confront us as a society. And I think the people who will be suffering because of the problem should have a say in it. For example, climate change. If you go to Mayaro, if you go to Manzanala Sea, just and whatnot, you could see where the sea is encroaching in Trinidad and Tobago. And I feel that the problems will arise in ten to 20 years. So those who will be facing the brunt of that problem ought to be making the decisions now. We need to be moving to a digital economy, right? Young people are more. My grandchildren could do all sorts of things. You saw the problems. I had to connect this morning to speak to you. If my grandson, we seven years, were here today, he would tell that you see it, the digital economy. You think Doctor Rowley could take us into a digital economy? Do you think that Doctor Rowley could diversify this economy? He's lost. When I look in the parliament, I see who among that group can, can create the new industry, who can confront the first world. For example, Mia Motley, when she speaks in global for everybody, takes note, including Biden. Before I came on this program, I listened to Doctor Irvin Ali from Guyana, lecturing a BBC reporter, putting him in school about climate change and Guyana's responsible action. Notwithstanding the fact that billions of exporting fossil fuels right now, those new leaders exist and they have to take us to the next level. I cannot see Doctor Rowley arguing with the BBC successfully and making the case for Trinidad's approach to climate change. In fact, the reality is we have done nothing. The question about hydrogen fuel, where are we on that? Where is Doctor Rowley in that? Where is our leader on that? And that is going to be talking about the United nations is committed in 2013 to move into a fossil free economy. And where are we waiting for God as a trinity to help us? That is a reflection of my generation. God is a trinity. God will help us. [00:24:28] Speaker B: Yeah. The discussion we are having, there's an obvious question that needs to be asked because I've asked the question of others, and they don't seem to have the answer. But I'll ask you, because you've made it abundantly clear that you believe change is necessary for progressive. And the progress that we're talking about here is the UNC possibly winning the next general election, and you've outlined the change that you think needs to happen. So the obvious question is, well, if not Kamala Posad be sasa who? [00:24:58] Speaker A: Well, as it stands, when I look at my party and I look at who are the lineup and I look for somebody of integrity, I look for somebody of humility. I look for somebody who can create jobs, not get government rent, like Faris Alwari. You get rent and you come rich. I talk about somebody who has created jobs, somebody who could plug into the 21st century demands for hydrogen fuel economy, for digitization. When I look both sides, and as a personal opinion, a personal opinion, I see it is rushly and parry of the choices we have. Now, if in the indian comes up a dream team, a dream team comes up, I will. And the membership buys into it, I will support that. I am for the UNC first. Sorry, I'm for Trinidad. I'm gone first, Trinidad and Tobago second, my family third. The UNC port. Whatever is necessary to bring us into governance, I will support nothing else. And if I see we're taking a direction that is inconsistent with that goal, because we cannot take five more years of Doctor Rowley. We cannot. And I don't want. When in 2025 we lose, somebody will say that you should have spoken up. We have to. I have been there before. I was the only. I was the only campaign manager to win an election for the UNC by itself. It was Fazal, the late, great Fazal, Karim and myself. We won it. And then three dissidents joined with the P and M and we had 1818. And the rest is history. The rest is history. But the point is, I have a sense of what is necessary for us to win. You think I want any of my colleagues to sit in parliament? And you have a speaker boofing them up, insulting them? When the speaker stands up, you have to sit and she says, I rule and you have to humble yourself. I don't want that for the UNC. I want a pro UNC of young, talented, brilliant people. And one of the problems we all have in the UNC is the question. We have been tagged, rightly or wrongly, with corruption. So if we have a group of people going up there who have tags with corruption, we're in trouble. The PNM is going to launch the campaign on that and we will be defensive. No, the wrong is the ttPs bias. That is. That is an argument we have to put to rest and put aside. The PNM right now is padding all over the place in San Fernando west. If you go by the roundabout you see three tall buildings. Lord knows where who will get, who will be in those buildings. We are seeing padding taking place on the on the highway in Harmony hall. They have put 1500 people inside there. When we were in power, we built houses in De Be. Think about that. We put it in Debe and pulled people from San Fernando west for Debe. [00:28:28] Speaker B: We continue our discussion with our special guest, Napariuma MP Rodney Charles. Stay with us. [00:28:38] Speaker A: This is the morning rumble with Satish Mahabir. [00:28:43] Speaker B: Three and a half minutes off, we still have with us a Napa rumor, MP Rodney Charles. We've got your sport report. Before we get back into our discussions, listen to this. [00:28:51] Speaker A: Good day. [00:28:51] Speaker C: I'm Katherine Cupen and this is your sport now for Tuesday the 23 April 2024 we start with some cricket. Jamaican all rounder Fabian Allen is one of the surprise inclusions in the West Indies, a team squad that will tour Nepal starting on April 27. The 28 year old last donned the maroon in February 2022. The team for the five t 20 matches will be led by barbadian Reston Chase and will also include Marc Dial as one of the lone TNT players. There are also call ups for youngsters Joshua Bishop and Kadeem Allen. Selena Lorraine has declined an almost region wide appeal for his return to the West Indies cricket ahead of the 2024 T 20 World cup in the Caribbean and the USA, the result from Noreens blistering IPL form for the Kolkata Knight Riders this season. He has so far attained a best knock of 109 and reached the most wickets by one player for an IPL team with 172 wickets for KKR. In a statement issued by KKR media, Narayan said he was flattered but remains retired. Claiming to be at peace with the decision, Narayan reaffirmed that the door remains closed on his international career, but he pledged his support for the players to be selected for the upcoming World Cup. Cricket West Indies president doctor Keisha Oshalo is defending the election of vice president Azim Bazaraf. In a letter dated April 20, the Guyana Cricket Board served a notice of legal proceedings after it insisted that Bazarat should not have stood for last year's election after the GCB's withdrew its nomination of the Trinity Bagel administrator. The GCB contends that it restated its withdrawal of Basrat's nomination on numerous occasions and objected to the CWIS decision to proceed with the election. Responding to a text message request from Guardian media for a comment on the matter yesterday, doctor Charlo said he was surprised by the GCBs attempt to upstage their teams triumph in the just concluded Western east chairmanship with what appears to be a personal vendetta. The GCB claims its decision to withdraw its nomination of Bazarat was taken after receiving information of serious allegations of misconduct at the TCB prior to the election. Evan Lewis smashed a 28 ball 70 as marching Patriots rose to second in the TDC Premiership division of the 50 over league on Sunday. Clark Road, the reigning champions, made 167 all out, batting firsts at the marching recreational ground in Charlieville. Marching reached the target for the loss of one wicket in 10.3 overs led by Lewis, who hit nine sixes. It capped off a good weekend for marching as they also beat power Gen on Saturday by four wickets. Martin climbs to second in the standings, exchanging positions with power Jen, who also lost to presal on Sunday. That was your sport now provided by the Guardian media Sports Desk please grab a copy of your trainer at Antobago Guardian and tune in to the CNC Three News tonight at 07:00 p.m. And. [00:31:48] Speaker B: Of course your sport report mornings and afternoons right here in freedom, 106.5 FM. We continue with our discussions. Our special guest this morning, Naparima MP Rodney Charles. He joins us on the phone. For those of you who'd like to get through, you're going to have to call us on 627-3223 we have the MP on the other line, so. 627-3223. I urge you to keep your comments brief, keep your questions short so that we can get as many in as possible and see who's with us. Hello, good morning. [00:32:16] Speaker A: Good morning to atees. And good morning to Mister Charles calling from sargonal. Mister Charles, I agree with your assessment this morning on how the UNC is run. I personally do not. I am not a member of the UNC. But I think that the UNC needs to change leadership in order to be effective in the next general election. Thanks a lot. [00:32:41] Speaker B: Thank you so much for your call. 627-3223 hello. Good morning. [00:32:47] Speaker D: Good morning Satish. Good morning. Honorable member of parliament, Mister Charles. I heard you most eloquently state a while ago that you questioned whether or not Doctor Ali. Sorry, whether or not Doctor Rowley could have been as eloquent with the BBC as doctor finale was well, I have no such questions. In my heart, in my bosom. I will tell you why. A few years ago, some people decided that they wanted to invade Venezuela. And Doctor Rowley said, is this the time for gun that has come? He went all over the Caribbean, even to the UN. And he changed the desire of people, even like Canada, for it to happen. Because had we husband that idea, Port of Spain could have been ashes in minutes. Some people does not understand what is to be done. Especially where foreign affairs is concerned. And I thank God for Doctor Oli being an officer at that point in time. Because had the UNC been there, I. [00:33:46] Speaker A: Do not know what would have happened. [00:33:47] Speaker D: To Trinidad and Tobago. Yes, I have faith he could have been as eloquent as Doctor Ursanali with the BBC. [00:33:53] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:33:54] Speaker B: Thank you so much. [00:33:55] Speaker A: Can I respond? [00:33:56] Speaker B: Yeah, sure, go ahead. [00:33:57] Speaker A: The question is not what I think, or what you think, sir, is what the world thinks in terms of leadership. And the evidence is there. When Mia Motley speaks at United nations, the whole is full. And you see people like Biden there. You see the president of France, Macro, you see the president of Finland. Everybody looking in awe at this lady. And you have to be honest. Let us be honest. Doctor Rowley does not inspire that kind of leadership. When Doctor Ali speaks, I mean, I have seen coverage in international media where the person, and I am asking that gentleman, I mean, yes, Doctor Rowley is human. He has done his best and whatnot. But I have yet to see international media president Doctor Rowley for his international comments. I've heard it from B and M supporters in Trinidad. [00:34:55] Speaker B: Let's take another call. Hello. Good morning. [00:34:57] Speaker E: Morning. [00:34:58] Speaker A: Professor T. And Mister Charles, I would like you to tell me specifically a, B, C, D, E. What the UNC has to do to win the election. Thank you. [00:35:10] Speaker B: And maybe you missed the whole interview that we've been having all morning long. Because that's exactly what Mister Charles did. I don't know if you want to summarize for the caller all that you said already. [00:35:22] Speaker A: I think we need to have the best and brightest representing us. I've told the leadership privately that when Eric Williams wanted to replace the colonial masters, he had a dream team. Clr James, he had um. Larry Constantine, he had doctor Winston Mahabir. He had people like Montano, elite. He was the elite businessman in San Fernando. And the question is, people report confidence in third world people being able to manage this economy. When you look at our candidates, who there, and including myself, who there could. Could line up with Larry. With Larry Constantine, who there could line up with Clr James, none of us. And let us face it, we have somebody like Kevin Ramna. Right? Why is he not in our lineup? Fazal Karim. I used to drive up in parliament every day with Fazal Karim and used to cry. And I'm saying cry to me that he was rejected when he did so much from flying, from cutting cane to flying plane. That to me, that was one of the things that made me. You see, what they did to Fazal is one of the things that told me that, listen, we need a change. I could go on and on with other reasons, but those are the. In summary, the reason. [00:36:50] Speaker B: Let's take another call. Have a good morning. [00:36:53] Speaker E: Morning, Mister Charles. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Morning, sir. [00:36:57] Speaker E: Mister Charles, you say the election is due by June. Why have we jumped in front without waiting for the leader to call an election and start pressing for this internal election? If for some reason the leader do intend or call the date for the election pretty soon, then all that you are doing now is in vain. It would not have been needed. And I ask the question. Don't you think the PNM have problems of their own politically? Do you see the P and M washing their dirty linen in the eyes of the public? You know what goes on in general counsel in the PNM. There's a call within circles in the PNM for the removal of Rowley behind closed doors. Are you hearing anybody voicing that concern publicly? Like you and Rushton Parry and Dinesh Ramble and Anita Haynes? [00:37:54] Speaker A: No. [00:37:54] Speaker E: You know, I see this as an attempt. [00:37:59] Speaker A: Hello? Yeah. Well, yeah. [00:38:04] Speaker B: Okay. Once the call is finished, I'll allow you to respond. [00:38:07] Speaker A: Okay. [00:38:08] Speaker E: So what is amazing to me is Anita Heinz, Anita Haynes came into this party in 2017. Not a single soul for a minor few knew who Anita Haynes was. The leader took a lot of stick for Anita Haynes, bringing her into the Senate in 2017. And she came into the party and I was amazed that Anita Haynes will run out the block and jump on the back of the leader so early in the game. Now, these differences could have been settled without creating any confusion in the mind of the supporters, and not our supporters, really, but those who are sitting on the byline waiting to see which political party to support. And when we come out here and we watching with dirty linen, and every week, if one different person coming on the radio and a national audience and behaving like this and carrying on, it doesn't overwell for the party. And I think a man of you with that kind of political experience should have known better and should have guided the other folks, because I know this. [00:39:07] Speaker B: Organization, you've been going on for a while. I want to keep the call. Couple issues there. Could this have been handled differently, do you think? What message it sends to the persons on the fence and all of those things. Plus I think there's something you wanted to respond to. MP, go ahead. [00:39:22] Speaker A: All right, let me correct some. Let me correct a misinformation about the PNM being a well oil machine. That the present prime minister of Trinidad and Tobago. Present Prime Minister criticized his party publicly in and out of parliament such that Manning had to say, I have been living with this problem for twelve years and nobody knows that is when he call him a raging bull, right? So that's question one. PNM, they have their disputes. The second thing about the PNM, they have avenues internally for raising issues in the UNC. Let us say, I have been there, I know it. And you cannot ask certain questions. You think one could go in a caucus and ask the leader when, if and when and how she's going to hold the internal election? There are no mechanisms adding our party like the general council where an ordinary man from CJ could confront the prime minister. Our meetings are orchestrated within a set of speeches and we talk down, we do not talk up. Because if what I am hearing all over and I go in the market, Marbella market from UNC members and about what we need to do, and if those ideas of the grassroots politics, UNC supporters were able to reach the top, we would have an entirely different party. The other question about Anita. Anita is. Anita is a decent soul. Anita is quiet. Anita is brilliant. She was a national scholarship winner from St. Joseph's convent. Believe you remember. People like her find it difficult in the party. And you have to ask yourself the question why it is all the brilliant people in the party are now in the political cemetery. Basa and Barra. Let's talk motivari. Ganga Singh fazal Karen. I'm Kevin. Ram Narayan. Do you not see a tread among all of them? They're brilliant and independent. And it is because all of them kept quiet. Now, I have kept quiet. I could tell you things around I have suffered in the UNC. Let me tell you. I was instructed to spin the wheel, it must be said. I was instructed and I did it. Three persons were instructed. David Lee, Hassan, Bharat and myself. And when it began to get rough, I told Vasan Bharat, well, he refused. I told Vasanth, I'll take the licks. I will take the licks. And I. Because at that time I wasn't going up for a candidate. I took the licks. I kept quiet and nobody defended me. So Rodney Charles got looked for something that was orchestrated by some foreign advisors. So I have been keeping quiet. I have been taking when we analyze what we are losing election after election, we not doing the analysis. And when you ask for the analysis, you are shut down. Shut down. And the question is, do I continue at this age? I told myself, I told myself I'm at an age where at least I can speak truth to power and help my party, my party, my party be the preeminent party that the founders of this party wanted. And I could leave the. I could leave the UNC as it is. You know, they pick up all kinds of people and throw them in candidate. The PNM accused left, right and center of corruption. I could leave it. But I have a duty to leave the UNC better than I met it. The UNC is a better party than the PNM. Take it from me, I've been in both. The UNC is a much better party than the PNM, but it needs to evolve. But when I hear the criticism, when I hear the criticism that we are washing our dirty linen in public in 2010, didn't our present leader do that to Pandey? And did she not win and did not lead to a renovation, a renewal in the party? So we. So Detroit is swattish. We remain as we are and we coast along and we are twelve party, twelve seat party, 1315 seat party. And we allow the P and M to run roughshod over this country or we do what we need to do to put ourselves in opposition to beat the PNM because the 70% is just waiting for the UNC to be the best version of itself in order to beat the PNM. [00:44:13] Speaker B: Well, if the position is that the UNC is such a better party than the PNM, is it really a case where the leader is the issue? And there are a couple of things in there that we probably need to pick apart? Is Cameron Posad Besetta the reason why the UNC can't win an election? And how do you justify that? Is it because of the track record of what has transpired since the 2010 general election and all of those different things? I am of the opinion, and you could correct me if I'm wrong. I'm of the opinion. I've said it publicly on the rager, that I believe the biggest problem for the UNC, not necessarily it's Natick's and it's his leadership. I'm not in the party, so I don't know the inner workings. But looking from the outside in, the biggest problem for the UNC is its supporter. Because its supporter is so finicky and fickle that they have all of these different things that they feel are important and need to be addressed before they could support a party, which they say theirs. Now, I don't see any attempt to fix that problem. What I see is a concerted effort to remove the leader because as you expressed, you know, the track record and the UNC needs to do certain things to win. But if you have the same set of supporters who the Vex, because, well, I didn't get a work, my family didn't get work. I know I didn't get what I wanted from the party. They have this one, they have that one, they are the next one. I can't support all of that. And you don't fix that. I'm of the opinion that anybody else who comes into leadership in the UNC going to be facing the same problems and might be accused later on of being the same thing. You're carrying an election when it's really a supporter and your support base that needs to be strengthened. Am I wrong? Okay, tell me right. [00:46:18] Speaker A: The PNM, they have their 30%. The UNC has its 30% that come hell or high water, they come out and support the party, right? So that there's not an issue of the support base. The UNC could rely any dig on 18 seats in the parliament. And that is purely because of the support base. The problem the UNC has in getting into governance is winning the 70% swing voter. The fella who is a Douglas, the fella who's well traveled, he has dual citizenship, he's a professional, he has his job, he has a global view. He is seeing. He doesn't think that UNC and PNM is critical because he is all over the world traveling. We have not been able to appeal to that group. And the question we have to ask is that a fault of the supporters? The supporters have done what they are supposed to do. They vote us in, give them credit for that. From hello high water, we could win Naparima, we could win Siparia, we could win. And that is the support. The problem is the 70% that we need to appeal to. And I'm saying I am yet to see anybody, the chairman of the chamber of commerce, the IRO, the roadshow club, I am yet to see those persons come in to support the UNC. And the question we have to ask is why? [00:48:02] Speaker B: Let's take another call. [00:48:03] Speaker A: Hello. [00:48:03] Speaker B: Good morning. [00:48:04] Speaker F: Yes, hi. Good morning Satish and good morning Mister Charles. Yes, I hear you say that the problem is the supporters but who are so loyal, more loyal than those sugar workers get. Unc from Mister Pandey come right down. That 2010 election. Miss Recess. I went on the platform and she said what you all didn't get and I will make sure and give you up to the day how much people get their land. For so many years she came and she said land for landless. Up to now when I listen to her meeting, she come near the I will open my land for landless. She's still not talking about sugar workers. So I was going to build that party, all of them. And she come and she could have done that. You know, most of them get a lot of land. They waiting to belong when they will get a lot of people die in. So she didn't keep her promise. What do you want the supporters to do? [00:49:02] Speaker B: Okay, but let me ask you. But just, just let me ask a question. [00:49:05] Speaker F: Thank you. [00:49:06] Speaker B: Hello. Hello. [00:49:08] Speaker A: Okay. [00:49:08] Speaker B: She gone. That lady, she has. That's evidence of what you're talking about. Okay, but, so it's, it's evidence on both sides of the argument that exists and our cogentity discussion. But here's, here's the thing. Do you allow your political party to lose at a general election simply because you didn't get what you wanted? [00:49:38] Speaker A: I have said on your program and elsewhere that if not the internal elections, they let Kamala pass our business. She has my support. I don't know where these issues have been manufactured about leader and whatnot. We are talking process. Once you are clear with the process. As a democrat, I believe in democracy. And I may be wrong and you may be right, others may be right. But let the membership decide and that is it. And that lady made the point that our problem is not the supporters, you know? And it hurts me when I see poor people in Naparima, people living on scraps, no employment, children with degrees, medical degrees, unemployed. And I want to know, we, I want to be in power to address that. We, we are party not for to be nice and a big crowd and thing, you know, we are there solely to win the election and get into government. Nothing else. Because other than that, I could write a thousand letters to Rohan Sinh for a lady called Miss Patty in Papua Road and a house falling down. And I write endless letters and I beg him and I plead and I think nothing happening. I don't want that. We have to help the UNC support base, who has been loyal to us. So when we build houses, we build houses and we were campaigning. And when we build the houses and PNM flag all over the place telling us, don't come in that area in Tableland, don't come in. Because we give it to them. We give it to the PNM, we give it to our supporters. Look at all supporters in Napurima. Unemployment, about 40%. Unemployment, make it 50%. And we talking about nice things about what we will do and why you don't call the election. And we should keep quiet. I want to win for the UNC, nothing else. [00:51:50] Speaker B: Okay, Mister Charles, we're out of time because we do have another interview that's scheduled to begin shortly. But as we wrap up our interview here this morning, if I were to say to you speak to the UNC's membership and to the natics and to the leader and to everybody else as to how you can resolve some of these matters that you think need to be resolved, what would you say to them? [00:52:16] Speaker A: Everything. We need to let the support base. We need to empower them to make decisions. We need to empower them by having a fair election in which about 30 to 40,000 of them become part of the process. They will elect a nattex, not of sycophants, but an attics that could talk to the leader straight up and give her the benefit of the advice. The leader then would be in a position, not. Not a small group of people who praise her greatness. And she should be there forever. She would be able to sit and wait. Rodney Charles has said that. I disagree with this part of it. I agree with that. That person who called and talk about things, he has a view. I will pull in that. But when the leader gets only the views that she wants to hear, we end up with decisions that do not reflect the interests of the wider membership. And I think that free and fair elections, and I stress free and fair elections in which people are not turned back because their name is not in a miraculous list that is created somewhere if they have a right to talk. Because the wisdom exists in the membership. A man might be a taxi driver, but he's more brilliant than me because he's been in the trenches since Club 88. His voice. There must be a mechanism for his voice to reach the leadership. At present, it does not exist. [00:53:46] Speaker B: Yeah. MP, I want to thank you for being with us here this morning and being as frank as you were with the issues that we spoke about because sometimes you have these interviews and people, they're politically correct. They don't want to give you, you know, several sides of what's going on. But you, you spoke to us and I trust that what you say to us, you are, you, you believe and it was the truth. And you've stated clearly your position on some of these matters, why you've acted in the manner in which you have and some of the things that you believe need to be addressed. I want to thank you for being with us here this morning. We didn't get to touch on the issues related to national security and foreign affairs, which I'm, I'm sure we'll speak of at another time. But once again, thank you for being with us here this morning. [00:54:26] Speaker A: Thank you, sir. Thank you. Appreciate it. [00:54:28] Speaker B: And that, of course, ladies and gentlemen, how we end our interview here this morning with Naparima MP Rodney Charles. [00:54:37] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5.