Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5. Welcome back. As I said to you all in this hour at this time, we put those topics, those political topics down, change gears and talk about something else that is really, really, really engaging our attention. And that is what took place at the port of Spain General Hospital with these babies. And joining us now to speak about the matter is one of the attorneys representing the families. And let me allow, let me introduce her to the program that is attorney at law Suan Deuseran. Good morning to you, and welcome to our program.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: Hi. Good morning. Satish, could you hear me?
[00:00:49] Speaker A: Yes, we're hearing you now. Thank you so much for being with us here this morning. This is a topic that has sparked an entire debate on an issue that many of us wish that we never had to discuss.
We're speaking about the deaths of seven babies. There's the possibility that others may succumb, and it has started a discussion about who's right, who's wrong, what can happen, how do we prevent who is to be held accountable and all of those things. But just before we get into the nature discussion, let me allow you to familiarize the listener with you and tell us about your role in this matter.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: Of course. Of course. So based on facts and the instructions that we have been receiving from these families to coming forward, we are still in the process of receiving the instructions. And we are trying to put the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together so that we could get a complete picture of what was done, what was not done, who would have pulled the strings and why, and whether the lives of these innocent babies were carelessly sacrificed. So at this point, we are just gathering the information, and we, too, are concerned in terms of what exactly led to the deaths of these babies. You know, because on a day to day basis, we have been interacting with these women, these families that have been coming forward. And while currently on record, we have seven recorded families that have been highly publicized.
It ought to be noted at this point that this is just the tip of the iceberg. You know, as every second goes by, as every moment goes by, we are getting to see a clearer picture. And it's horrifying, you know, and based on what the information we are receiving and the instructions we are getting as well, it appears as though that there's some sort of dangerous, severe systemic failure on the part of the port of Spain General Hospital. So we just want to bring that forward. That's our priority. You know, at this point in time, we, we will leave no stone unturned in our quest for justice for these aggrieving families.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: It's.
It's, as I said, a case that you really don't want to wish on your worst enemy. Because apparent myself, I understand what it takes for a family to go through the rigors of a pregnancy. There are some people who. They've been trying to have a child for the longest while. I don't know what the case is with these parents. If they have other children is their first or whatever else, but to go through all of that and then deliver a baby and then to be told that, well, something caused this child to die, it's. It's. It's traumatic. And unless you're in the situation, I don't think you can really understand what people are going through. But we have. I don't want to say precedent that was set, but we have other cases within the medical fraternity. Not necessarily babies dying, but persons dying while under the care of medical institutions.
And one of the more prominent ones that has made its way into the discussion, I am assuming, because of the number of babies, is what took place in 1992 at the St. Anne's hospital where 14 patients died after drinking something contaminated. Now there was a commission of inquiry launched into that incident headed by former chief justice Isaac Hayatali, and he concluded in his report what you said, systemic failure. But he said that no one could have been held responsible since it was a massive case of systems failure.
So if I don't know how the law is going to adjudicate and use this moving forward, but are we looking at a case here, once again, where something tragic has happened? And as a nation, we won't end up holding anyone culpable to the point where we identify that this is the person that was responsible.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: Well, at this point in time, what is of major concern to us, in addition to the systemic failure, is that our clients remember we are operating on our clients instructions, right. And our clients have instructed that another baby from a prestigious private nursing home into the port of Spain General Hospital, who would have been suffering from a serious viral infection. Right. And it appears as though at this point in time, no necessary precautions and preventative measures would have been taken to prevent the transmission and infection of the other baby. Of the other babies. And our clients have also instructed us that they noticed the medical staff who were dealing with them, who they have interacted with on a daily basis while they were in the hospital. They weren't sanitizing and they weren't washing their hands. And the failure to do so could be detrimental because when you take into account the fact that these babies, they are premature, they would have been admitted into the neonatal intensive care unit, right? That's an intensive care unit for preterm babies, for ill babies. So when you are dealing with babies of this particular nature, it's only obvious that you will need to take extra precautionary measures in order to ensure that no diseases, no infections can be contracted and can be spread to them, right? So at this point in time, the hospital has to explain how these babies have died whilst under their care and control. Because as you had mentioned, these women, they placed utmost trust and confidence in the healthcare system, the public healthcare system, right?
You could see. You could see that from the articles that have been being published as well, right? As we have one client from Tobigo, she came down, Miss Charisse, more. She came down to Trinidad. She had nobody with her, no family members and friends, nothing like that. Right? At this point in time, she was just placing her faith and confidence in the nurses and the doctors who she would have been interacting with on a daily basis, right? And the thing is, throughout her experience and these mothers experiences, nobody, not once ever mentioned anything about an infection, a possible infection, right? So in terms of how the law will deal with this, right, we intend to seek an order for disclosure regarding the transfer of that particular baby, which would have placed our clients babies at a serious risk, right, and a compromise to their health. And in addition to this as well, we also seek full frank disclosure regarding the number of babies that have died at the port of Spain General Hospital since January 1. To know.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Is that is requesting that information.
Can the public infer that this is not the first time this has happened?
[00:08:46] Speaker B: Well, I mean, as these parents are coming forward, we are seeing that the deaths have not occurred just between the period of April 4 to 7th, as the Northwest Regional Health Authority would have disclosed in their press release, in the media release. My mistake, right? It appears as though these, these babies have been suffering from these infections. They have been exposed to these infections from a period of time, from before.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Okay, so let's, let's speak about where we are at this point in time because the families have signaled through their attorneys that, listen, we, we necessarily satisfied with what we've been told and we intend to pursue this further.
What are the possible outcomes that can arise from taking this matter to court?
[00:09:46] Speaker B: So first of all, before we could even proceed to file the claim for medical negligence, we need to obtain the medical records, right? Which is why we have imposed a deadline upon the Northwest Regional Health authority to provide it by this evening, right? And the hospital is very well aware that we need those medical records in order to properly advise our clients and to give these mothers, these families, the closure and the answers that they require and the answers that they are searching for, right? So only upon receiving these medical records, then we can. Then we'll be able to take the matter to court. And in these circumstances, we will be seeking compensatory damages. But these mothers are entitled to monetary compensation.
But the thing to note is that in these circumstances, based on these women's experiences, based on their personal experiences, right? No amount of money could ever compensate for the loss of a baby. You see that void, that. The loss of a baby that you would have been working so hard to prepare for, right?
Nobody could understand that. Only a mother would truly understand, right? So compensation is secondary. Our priority is not in terms of compensation. What these mothers want out of taking this matter to court, right, should settle, not arise. I might add, what these mothers really want is to ensure that this particular situation does not happen again. Because, as you rightfully said, this has been a trend, right? It has been happening. The public healthcare system has been continually failing. The public.
The public who have been relying on them for assistance in their times of need. You place in your utmost trust, faith and confidence in them, and they are failing you time and time again. So what these mothers want is to ensure that this does not happen again. They believe that no other mother should lose their baby in such tragic circumstances. And they want to ensure that there needs to be a total overhaul of the system so that the systemic failures that occurred in this matter identify with strong recommendations put in place to prevent a recurrence of this matter. And also that these implementations must be made swiftly. And aside from that, as well, you see, in the public healthcare system, right, in relation to this matter, specifically with the port of Spain General Hospital, what these mothers are concerned with as well is the treatment that they would have experienced at the hospital. You know, imagine you see your baby, right? Some of these mothers, this was their first chance at having a baby, right? And this was their last chance at having a baby as well, because some of them would have undergone tubal ligation, right? So these babies have meant the world to them. You know, in charisse's case, for instance, you, she referred to her baby as a precious miracle. So that just goes to show how valued and how cherished these babies were.
And to this day, these women, they have not, they cannot be expected to just overcome this level of heartbreak, this level of pain and this distress and depression that they are undergoing. Some of them have even come forward and indicated that they are going to therapy right now. But not even therapy could help them. Right. So what these mothers are concerned about is the treatment that they would have been administered during this time. So when they went to see their babies now, and you see in this child bleeding at the head and the feet. Right. You see in this coloration, you are seeing all of these symptoms that this baby is showing. You are constantly asking, right, what's going on? Why is my baby looking like this? My baby was healthy just. Just a few moments ago when I held her. What happened here? Right. And to be greeted with these hoggish nooses, you know, saying, like, oh, um, that's normal. They'd be pretty premature. Things just happen, you know? And these women now, they felt that maternal instinct that something was going wrong with their babies, right. And to have been constantly lied to. Right. Upon asking consistently about the conditions of their babies. Right. This is something that is just unacceptable. Right. So moving forward, what these women's priorities is to ensure that this does not happen again and it experience this level of disregard, this level of this. This level of incompetent and unprofessional and irresponsible manner in which they were treated.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: Is there a time frame within which matters like these can be filed?
Statute, limitation or something like that?
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Yes. So according to the Limitation of Citizen Actions act, we would, in order to bring this action to court, we would have to bring it within a period of four years time from the date of the incident. So from this year, it would be, we have until 2028 to bring the action.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: The reason why I'm asking this is I know of cases that happened in the past, not that long ago, actually, where persons delivered babies that were premature. I know one case in particular where the baby was delivered in the morning and the father left, went home to get her, change her clothes, whatever else and everything else for the child. And when he went back in the afternoon, he was told that the baby had died and the baby was delivered healthy and everything else as you can. Well, as he was told. But when he went back, he was told by hospital, well, look, the child died and this and that and the next and the other. And he couldn't for the life of him. Nobody to this day has given him a good explanation or the mother as to how the baby died.
And so I understand, because I know the individual personally, I understand the trauma that persons go through and things like these happen and these people were trying to have a baby for a pretty long period of time, and the gentleman was so frustrated and everything else, it really took a toll on him. So I, even though I can't empathize with persons who have gone through something like this, I really do understand how it affects people.
And we do hope that in an instance like this one, we get to the bottom of it. Now, investigations are being conducted by the relevant regional health authority and others.
Do the families have faith in those investigations, or is this going to be a situation where the medical records will have to be presented to an independent practitioner to get some sort of determination as to, well, this should have happened, that didn't happen, and all of these kinds of things, because I know, I've spoken to attorneys in the past, and they say one of the greatest challenges in pursuing medical malpractice or negligence lawsuits is getting somebody to adjudicate independently on the information. Is that where this matter is going to have to go?
[00:17:46] Speaker B: Yes. No, I understand your concern. And the families they have, based on the experiences at this point, it's safe to say that they have advised us that they don't have that much faith in the regional health authority investigation. After the level of disregard that they would have experienced and the fact that nobody would have empathized with their situations and all that, they don't really place that much trust at this moment in time in those investigations. So you are very correct in saying that with medical malpractice lawsuits, we will need to receive those medical records as soon as possible, because we already have international experts who have expressed grave concern and they are ready to testify against the northwest Regional Health authority.
Right? So that's why the disclosure of these medical records is so critical.
And the fact that to date, these medical records have not been disclosed is extremely suspicious, because the thing is, in this day and age, right, technology is everything at this point, these medical records are digitalized. Right? They could be sent via the click of the mouse. Right? We have one of our clients who came forward, one of her babies, Ella Molino, she would have died exactly one month ago.
Right? She has been requesting those medical records. Her mother has been requesting those medical records since the date of her death. And up to now, we have not received it, you know, so in order for us to move forward and have these experts review these medical records and to provide their opinion and their take on this entire ordeal and to bring closure, most importantly, to these families and to these, these parents, and we would need to get those medical records as soon as possible. So in light of that, if it is, we don't get those medical records by this evening, we would have to make an application for specific disclosure, the hospital, to finish these medical records because as I mentioned before, they could easily just click on a mouse and send it across to us. We have indicated that they could email it to us. They have to email it to us. Right. So that is another one of our concern. And time is of the essence because even though we have four years, as I would have mentioned by according to the Certain Actions act right, time is of the essence because our clients, they are extremely worried that these medical records could be doctored. And our main focus right now as well is to ensure that the integrity of these records are protected. And we understand the concerns of these parents in these circumstances. We appreciate their fears and their anxieties because we have been involved in medical negligence cases in which we have reason to believe that medical notes have been doctored and changed, and in other cases, the entire file containing the patient's medical records mysteriously vanished. So we understand that these concerns are legitimate and reasonable, and that's another reason as to why it is it's so critical for us to get our hands on those medical records as soon as possible.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: I understand the challenges that are confronted because this is not the first matter like this kind and attorneys of have been speaking about how difficult it is to get assistance. I don't want to say assistance, but to get parties to act the way that they need to in matters like these. This morning I described the investigation that's ongoing as himself investigating himself because I don't know how else to describe it because the Ministry of Health has asked persons within the Ministry of Health to investigate an incident that happened under facility run by the Ministry of Health so as to whether or not people are going to believe what we are told. We are wait and see. But I understand the challenges that it presents for our legal team in trying to meet the statute and to get your act together because it's seven families and not one and all of these kinds of things, even though the issues are similar, we will have to wait and see.
But do we have a timeline that we're expecting this matter to be up and running? Because I know you have to wait in the ministry and all these kinds of other things, do we have any sort of possible timeline within which we can see this matter going to court or anything like that?
[00:23:01] Speaker B: Well, at this point in time, more families have been coming forward to us with their concerns, as you would have mentioned as well. And with their personal experiences upon seeing these instances being highly publicized in the media. Right. So they are still coming forward. And, you know, given the nature of the situation, given the experiences that it would have faced, like, they will take time to come forward, you know. So at this point in time, we can't speak with certainty in terms of when we will proceed, but we are in the process, as I would have mentioned, of still gathering the information.
So hopefully at a later point in time, we'll be able to once receive the instructions and we put together these pieces. And it's a jigsaw puzzle because it's a mystery to all of us, right? We are putting the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together. And once we get that complete picture of what was done, what was not done, who pulled the strings and what exactly took place, that what claimed the lives of these innocent babies, and once we get that confirmation, then we will proceed.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: Let's, let's take one or two calls as we wrap up our interview. Hello. Good morning. Hello. Good morning.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: Satish.
[00:24:23] Speaker C: And to your guests, ma'am, with no reflection on your ability and your capacity, we have different areas in medical that people specialize in. Do you think that the time has come for attorneys and the legal profession to have a specific type of attorney that has the ability to understand the medical jargon and medical different things so that they can better serve persons who have been wronged by the medical fraternity when it happens now, just as we have the criminal bar association, they specialize in criminals. Is it possible that maybe sometime in the future we could have attorneys that are specialized in, you know, these, these medical events when they take place? I'll listen up here. Thank you.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Thank you for your call, your response.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: So I believe I understand where you are coming from, but in relation to that, I think that's the point of having the medical experts available. Right. Internationally in order to advise the attorneys. Right. In terms of what exactly went wrong. So I understand that it's critical and it's important, becoming increasingly important, I would say, especially in light of this matter and what has been happening in recent times as well, that attorneys ought to familiarize themselves or those who are specialized in medical malpractice lawsuits. And I believe with practice, we will become more and more familiar in terms of, in the legal profession, with the medical terms, and we will be able to address the medical negligence matters a bit clearer. But that's why we have the medical experts on hand to advise us in terms of the medical aspects of it.
[00:26:22] Speaker A: Let's take one of the call before we end. Hello. Good morning.
[00:26:26] Speaker D: Morning, Satish. Good morning to you guys. This is an alarming situation that has happened where the hospital is reluctant to give information or to give their report or something as serious as this. I want to ask the lawyers, is it possible to use the Freedom of Information act to invoke, to invoke it to force the hospital to give up their report? And the longer it takes, everybody is thinking that, you know, they're going to fix the report to absolve the hospital of any wrongdoing. Do you think that, is it possible to get the correct information or actually what happened? And do you have any recourse if the hospital is found lying? I will.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: Okay. Thank you so much. Your response, attorney.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: I really didn't hear that question properly. Satish. I have a bit of an echo on my end here.
[00:27:28] Speaker A: Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm sorry because I, doing a couple other things. I probably missed the question. I'm sorry. Sorry about that caller. Let's take another one. Hello. Good morning.
[00:27:37] Speaker E: Morning, Satish. I see something wrong with my phone going anyhow. Such as, you know, they're saying seven people, seven babies dead is not seven, is nine. Two babies died in January. Right? They talk about that. Seven and two, nine. You know me. I know. I just want, let me know that there's nine babies for the year. Thank you.
[00:27:58] Speaker A: Well, I don't know. You probably have information, nobody else I have about how those baby died. So you can make pronouncements and all it, and I kind of think we're dealing with, dealing with seven babies at this point in time. And until somebody like the attorneys, it's, or other families come out and say the same thing, I don't know if they're related, but we'll wait and see. So I think this, we're gonna have to drop the curtains on our interview here this morning. This matter is occupying a lot of the public's time and attention for the obvious reason. You're talking about babies. You're talking about so many of them dying. The possibility that people are scared now, people going in to deliver babies ain't too sure. Was the, was the possibility of their child suffering a similar fate? And all of these fears that are now very much in the public domain, it has taken us back to a position where people are very skeptical of the public health sector when it comes to delivering babies and all of that kind of thing. But I want to thank you for being with us here this morning and sharing and probably demystifying some of the things surrounding this case and surrounding the issues that many people are, because I'm sure that there are people who are pregnant and are thinking to themselves, well, am I at risk? Is my child at risk?
Because for many, we deliver about 16,000 plus babies a year. Plenty people don't have the opportunity to go to a private facility. And it seems in this case, even though if you go to a private facility, your chances of your child surviving or 50 50, because the information is that a child from a private facility was sent to the public. So I want to thank you once again for being with us here this morning, Atini, and giving us some more of the information and some deeper introspection into what's going on. Thank you for being with us.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: Of course, not a problem. And thank you for having me here this morning. I really appreciate the opportunity to shed light in this situation.
[00:30:00] Speaker A: And I'm sure as the matter unfolds, we'll keep in touch and we'll speak to you again about the latest developments as they happen. Nice to have you once again.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: Of course, not a problem. Satish, enjoy the rest of your day.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: You as well. That, of course. Ladies and gentlemen, how we end our interview with attorney Suhan Dev Saran.
The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5.
