Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The best insight Instant Feedback Accountability the All new talk radio freedom 106.5 still waiting for Ms.
Omer, president of Human Resource Management association of Trinidad and Tobago to join us via Zoom so that we can talk about the human resource aspect of the budget.
Oh, good morning.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: Greetings.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: Oh my goodness, I am. I do apologize but I did not see you in the room. But let's go straight into the conversation. I'm glad that you're here because I was now about to give you a call and hope that you were here now listening to the comments. So far as it relates to the budget for 2026 and the expectations of listeners and citizens of TNT, doesn't it fascinate you that they have not really focused on the human resource part of it?
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Good morning and thank you for having me.
We are all counting down to Monday, October 12th. You know budget is a time where everybody pay attention. Actually pay attention. It's one debate that citizens tune in for and the Minister of Finance, the Honorable Da Vinci Net Tan Kohe, will be presenting the budget at 130 and every citizen at this stage counting their pennies.
And as hillmart's president, I want to remind everyone that the national budget, and as you've rightly identified, is not just about dollars and cents. It's about people.
And every line item is a worker, a family, a workplace. It impacts people at the end of the day and sometimes, at least over the years. When I've listened to budgets, people are often left out of the equation for some reason and you have to wait until the debate starts and you hear from the respective ministers to get a sense of the impact it will have on the average citizen out there and on the workspace especially.
So we are entering this budget, interestingly, with low headline inflation. Inflation as of June based on the statistics available was at 0.3%.
But high price levels when it comes to the prices of goods and services, people are still feeling the pinch and household debt is increasing.
Wages as we know has been a topic of conversation for the past year and the unions will tell you that we have not kept a pace with the rising cost of living since 1998.
Forex exchanges business will talk about forex exchanges and how it's actually strangling the small and medium sized firms and growth has been sluggish.
So persons in the non energy sector will say well okay, they are the ones now. Basically you had to focus on the current economy because we see there's so much turmoil in the energy sector overall with what's happening globally and how that impacts us as a smart island nation as well.
So we must really ask ourselves how, in the largest context, how does the budget protect, develop and productively deploy our human resources? Because if we lose the people, we will be losing the recovery that is needed. You know, and sometimes we fail to realize that we leave the people out of the equation for some reason. But you actually need the people to help with the recovery. So I'm happy how you introduced the topic basically because every time I listen to a budget speech deliver being delivered to me that element is always lost for some reason. We don't connect the dollars and cents to the people basically.
[00:03:54] Speaker A: Now in terms of dollars and cents, especially as we've witnessed many sectors of the workforce vying, negotiating, putting on the table, we need wage increases. The dollar value attached to that conversation also needs to be considered. What can we expect for 2026 into 2027 in terms of the wage of that work that is given by the workforce in Trinidad and Tobago?
[00:04:31] Speaker B: Well, the thing is we know that that would continue to be a conversation until it is settled because there was a promise made and it's part of the overall manifesto, without using a different word, there was a promise made to unions in terms of this 10%, 10% and how it's going to be settled. And that is a problem because at this stage in our economic history, we know it's a difficult thing to settle finding that cash and then also having the back pay element of it as well too. I know that there has been negotiations happening for non cash items such as offsetting mortgages, tax arrays, tuition at state institutions, medical coverage. So there are ways in which you can look at non cash incentives to settle that. But it requires skillful negotiation and parties to come together for the overall interest of the country at the end of the day. So it will be tantamount to 10% but not 10% in cash. And that is the problem right now. The problem is having the cash to make that, that is a real mad problem. So they have to become a bit more creative with the negotiations. Right? And the thing is when the public sector is settled, it usually trickle down or has an impact on the private sector as well or on other unions that are not necessarily part of that bargaining unit. So PSA would have made, they would have advocated on behalf of their members.
You could see now, for example when you listen to cwu, the Communication Workers union, they also now clamoring and insisting on your 10% because the PSA members getting 10%. So it does have an impact.
How you settle with one union has an impact on how you settle with the others as well. Because the first thing they would say is we want parity and equity and all of that. You'd hear words like that being utilized as well too.
So you can't tell a worker of course to take their mortgage to the grocery or non cash balance to buy books and whatever else. So I understand that that is the argument unions will present, that you can't take certain things to the bank, you can't take it to the groceries and all of that. All well and good. But then we have to consider overall, what are the interests of the country.
In other parts of the world we see that unions, the business sector and government work very closely in making decisions that determine the course of history for that country and that economy.
And it would be good to see that kind of language and positioning being taken in Trinidad and Tobago for sure, where we could all come together for the collective good of the country. That so to speak, you know, it would be good. But liquidity is an issue and, and we know that on all fronts, it's not just the state, but for even you as an, as an individual as well.
Let's take a week. We can understand that.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah, let's take a call. We have a question coming in. Hello, Good morning. Welcome.
[00:07:52] Speaker C: Good morning, Ms. Tufka. Good morning to your guest, Princess Song. Ms. Stuff. I want to take the opportunity to call on the trade union sector across the board, our leaders.
Trinidad and Tobago today is at a very critical juncture in our development and we are back perhaps to a situation like 1986 with the NAR government when they had offered shares to workers as part settlement, especially with the arrears.
And I would want to, to encourage the union leaders that shares also should be included of government bonds, et cetera, as part of the settlement of the arrears. Because I mean, the former government was offering what, 4%?
This government is saying 10%. That is, I mean, it's a vast difference and obviously everybody knows there's no secret in terms of the liquidity and governments finding funding and so on. It is not what we would like it to be. So I think the unions need to rise to the occasion, engage their membership and probably have some educational program and explain to them the benefits. Because if you have shares of government bonds and so on, that can be used for collateral, lending, institutions, etc. Etc. So it can be a win win for all parties.
But I think the leaders have the responsibility to rise to this New reality and challenge that the country faces. And it could be a win win for all of us.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: Thank you so much Princess Town. Now let's focus on that for a minute. In that as a human resource manager and understanding that the conversations happening with workers with these I would say more intangible because it's not cash forms of payment.
Is the infrastructure there to honor these types of transactions really working and exist so that the employees feel more comfortable accepting these forms of payment?
[00:10:04] Speaker B: Yes, this has been done many times before, even in the past where I existed in a unionized environment at one point and we went through that collective agreement article by article and successfully negotiated and settled at 7% at that time. The union started off at 25%, we settled at 7. And then there were non cash things that the employees actually value. Now if you talk to people and sometimes what happens with negotiations is that the union perhaps not always will conduct a survey of their members to get a sense of what the ask is.
They often go into negotiations. I've seen that where they've gone into negotiations and they've not asked the employee what they want because sometimes it can be things like daycare solutions, tuition expenses offset for their kids, those things that always non purpose cash, it has a value of financial value and a financial saving for that employee. So if my employer is offering tuition payments or purchasing books for my, my children, things like that, that is a real, that is a real tangible benefit there. That is cash that I don't have to find as an employee now because this is a benefit. That is what we're talking about with non cash items. You know, it has value is just that the employer is not required to find the cash immediately, but it has value.
As opposed to saying that it can't work. It does work. It has worked. So when you talk about the stock of government housing right now and in the past where the police service and especially the protective services, where they've settled for access to AGC homes and all these different things that has value to that person in being provided with an opportunity to access home ownership, access reduced mortgage rates, if able to utilize financial institutions from the government, those things have real value. So to me we just have to be more creative. Look at the total asset base that we have and what could be extended to workers right now that has value to them that will make a significant difference in their lives and doesn't cost the government significant cash at this point in time. Plus cash is the issue, you know, and not having it. And the challenge we have too is that collective agreements are not settled in real time. We often talking about 10 and how many years in the past, as opposed to keeping it current.
I've spoken with union, some of my union colleagues. And even again in my days when I did negotiations, they would say to me, first of all, we prefer fatal lapse, because how else would our members have savings? And I found that to be such a strange rationale that you would delay in submitting your proposal for a period so that that back pay now becomes a saving for your members. Why not teach your members financial literacy?
[00:13:13] Speaker A: I was not about to ask this question.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: Yes, you know, and in other parts of the world, like when we often compare ourselves to Scandinavia and all these countries, but they actually work very closely with employers and they. The unions in those territories do your research.
They actually run education programs, train their members and all of that. Because the union has to operate just like how the business operates. The employees being asked to train the vehicle, develop to invest, to provide health and safety measures. All these different things the employee has been asked to do. But you have an obligation and a stake and you could also do it as well. And that is how unions operate in other parts of the world. So they would provide training, they would provide education and financial literacy, help your members manage their money better, as opposed to saying, let me let it lapse and let.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Let it grow.
Like if. Like if it's really a savings plan and interest will go on top of that. I have to. Let me take some calls here, because many people are calling, probably have questions for you as well. Hello, Good morning.
[00:14:15] Speaker B: Hi, good morning, Tusca.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: Good morning.
[00:14:17] Speaker B: Welcome from the penal area. What we'd like in the budget. The budget must bring more food. It's supposed to feed your country that only. Only import things.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: Thanks so much, Rhea.
Yeah, we will talk more on that in the next hour. But right now we are talking about the human resource part of this plan for development for 2026 into 2027. Because one of the things that has been absent from the conversation is having a workforce, one being healthy enough to get to work. And I guess that's why the last caller talked about the food as well. Because we have to rethink how we see food in that aspect, that relation to the import bill and foreign exchange, understanding what the skills are necessary moving forward to advancement. Because there have been so many advancements in terms of technology, in terms of qualifications for employees and the jobs that are existing now, some have become redundant, irrelevant. How do workers prepare for that shift, knowing that there is so much New technology coming on board. And of course we're going to use the word AI that has been upgraded by the President of the United States to si. I don't know how that applies. But as a human resource manager, what would be the advice you would give not only to employers, but employees seeking jobs?
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Well, the thing is, we are in a different.
We've seen different cycles of industrial revolutions occur in history. So what we're experiencing today is nothing new. Right. We've seen technology often come in and reshape how the world of work looks. So there's the fare. The initial thing is to fare it.
And then in starting from that position, you don't prepare for what's coming coming because you're living in faith, existing in fear. But as we prepare for the budget on Monday, there is going to be redundancy happening in Transobago, but there will be no budget line for that for sure. And it's not just what you're seeing. You hear people complain about CPAP and ERP and what's happening there with people being sent home. But when we consider technology and AI, as you've positioned the question, Taska, AI is also impacting jobs like cashers.
We see more and more. When you go to Massey, there's a lot of self checkout now.
Clerks are being replaced by AI chatbots as well too. So there's a time when you call an airline to follow up on your ticket and whatever else, you don't have to talk to a person anymore. I've traveled and not interacted with a person yet. But check it in print in my own baggage tag, all these, all these different things. So we know technology always, always results in a shift. It's coming. It's not an issue of it not coming.
[00:17:20] Speaker A: It's already here.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: It's here. So we will now have to budget for redundancy. Yes, but also look at reskilling. So it's not only about the fact that some people are being displaced, but how we rescue skill, the current workforce, for the new jobs that are also being created. So you're hearing of closures, a hearing of downsizing, a hearing, restaurants up to yesterday it was announced that a restaurant at Movie Town was sending workers home for initially a period of three months. Right. And you're seeing the impact of things. And what are we doing now recognizing so many people have lost jobs or so many people could potentially be replaced by the technology.
What are we doing to reskill them for the new things? And there are some things technology still cannot do. And There are some skills that for some reason we shy away from developing those skills. You will always need a plumber. You would always need certain technical skills that there is a critical shortage of
[00:18:23] Speaker A: those at this point in time.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: Electricians, yes, total shortage. You can't get a good mason, I mean painters. So there are jobs and roles that could actually earn you a decent living. And for some reason we've gone so professional in our outlook on what employment should look like that we do not see the value in other skills as well.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: I appreciate that you're mentioning that. Is it that unfortunately because of how we view money as well the. That some professions are unfortunately seemed lesser in terms of importance than others. And as you say, we are now coming back to the fact that you can be an electrician, plumber, doctor, lawyer, administrative assistant, all in one. You have to be able to get to the professionals to assist you in these areas. How can we change that mindset where jobs are concerned?
[00:19:27] Speaker B: Well, all those things stem from how you socialize at home and even the academic institutions.
Because I don't know where people got the idea that you cannot have a decent living as an electrician or as a mechanic or a plumber when you consider the cost right now, a mechanic coming home to do any work on your car or an electrician coming to rewire your home.
That is not a cheap exercise size. And if you position yourself, and that's a good thing. When you see the Ministry of Labor and small micro enterprises and what they've been doing with micro firms, we tend to see things big. Everything is oil and gas and the big manufacturing companies, but the small medium entrepreneurs out there, these are the kind of jobs and businesses that they can create and be quite successful at it, providing these services.
How many people I am sitting right now tusca in your house. You could, you can, you would value a good handyman coming to assist you with whether it's a broken tile, whether it's a broken hinge from a door, whatever it might be. And we need to value these small and medium sized firms that may not be manufacturing and exporting goods and services across territories, but invest in these businesses and you could structure these businesses in such a way that people could have a decent standard of living from it. It's not only a doctor or a lawyer. I mean if a society only produced that, then what happens to the other roles and skills and jobs that are needed? The other thing would be no.
[00:21:02] Speaker A: We've got about 10 more minutes to the news at the top of the hour. But I like the vein that you're going into at the moment where in the space of there've been a lot of let gos, people being removed from jobs basically at a point where they will have to rethink. Pivot is the word and I think part of the, I think change towards recognizing now the jobs like you just mentioned is because of this do it yourself trend that has been taking over a lot.
If someone who has now at the point need to pivot and enter into exploring these jobs, what advice you would have for them? The ones that would want to be the masons or the gardeners or the skill centered jobs, what advice you'd have to give to them to start off that journey of entrepreneurship?
[00:22:02] Speaker B: Well, I think definitely we need to focus on reskilling and examining where the gaps are. So when I talk to young professionals now in mentorship programs, I identify careers that have shortages in those areas as well, not where it's saturated. So you go into areas where you know there's a few people competing and there's a definite need for it as well. So. So reskilling is important. Digital literacy is absolutely critical in these times as well. And you see it just even to get basic transactions. Now imagine if you don't have digital skills and you're trying to leave the country right now and we've changed an online system for entry and exit in completing our forms, our departure forms and our return forms. Right? That's a simple thing that if someone a basic skill, you know, is nothing difficult. But there are people out there who are, who are quite intimidated by these things because they fear the technology as opposed to embracing it. And that's what we need to do. We need to encourage digital literacy as part of our national infrastructure.
Maybe in terms of creating some kind of tripartite council that would treat with the government, employers and unions that dealing with tech and reskilling and digital literacy at the forefront in terms of those topics, not only in terms of the labor climate, but also looking at the future and how we prepare the workforce for it. To me that is absolutely critical.
And there are enough state organizations that provide support to persons who are interested in small and micro enterprise or entrepreneurship opportunities that they can now approach to get that level of assistance and guidance. And you have the, of course the chambers and all the other organizations that exist that could provide some level of mentorship and guidance as well. My thing is not to disappear.
Sometimes when a shift is happening you have to re examine yourself and reposition yourself for it. It has happened time and time Again, it is nothing new. This one is a lot different because of the pace that it's going at keeping it and we are not keeping up with the pace. So that is the reality. This one is fast. So therefore we now have to invest as a country, all of us. So in one way or the other, in every pocket, everybody has a role to play from the parents in terms of talking to your kids and giving them advice, career advice and career tips and all of that from the school systems in terms of the offerings that they have now. The traditional education cannot work in times like this. And when you look at what China and all the other countries are doing with their children from a very young age, you could tell why we would be lagging and not competing in the same way with them. Because from very young they are taught financial management, technology, things that you don't learn until later on in life. I mean, if I had access to the information that I have now earlier, I think I would have been better off in life myself, you know. So we have to reframe and reposition our system to give us the relevant information that is needed for us to survive in the future.
We have to always plan for the future. Can look at things in the current context because it's not going to last long. The current context is not going to last very long. It's actually shifting very quickly and it's
[00:25:39] Speaker A: very fast paced as well.
Ms. Joseph St. Omer, thank you so much for joining us today and giving us that perspective on how we look at human resource. And it's very important that we continue focusing on the very persons who help move the country forward. I appreciate you and we will talk again soon.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: Thank you and thank you for having me. I appreciate it and have a blessed day to you and your viewers. Listeners, thank you so much.
[00:26:08] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
