TTFS SPEAKS OUT

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability, the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5 welcome back. [00:00:19] Speaker B: 23 and a half after eight. As I said to you all, we do have a pretty interesting interview at this point in time. Joining us this morning, President fire Services Association, 2nd Division, Kyongai. Nice to have you with us in studio here this morning. [00:00:32] Speaker A: Good morning, Satish. Thank you for having me. [00:00:36] Speaker B: I know that there's a lot of focus, intensified, renewed, whatever you want to call it, on fire services at this point in time for the obvious reason we've been having a lot of conversations with fire services, but just before we get into that, people may know, people may not know, but let me allow you to tell us about your position as president of the Fire Services association, second Division. Tell us about it. [00:01:03] Speaker A: Well, again, good morning to you and to your listeners. Firstly, let me extend condolences to those who died in that tragic incident a couple days ago, to the minister, Morris and her kids, of course, our thoughts and prayers of the fire service and all fire officers are with them. I took office over the past, I think it was December 13th last year, as president of the Fire Service association for the second division officers, second division officers, the ranks from firefighter, which is akin to private in the army, all the way up to a fire station officer, which is, let's say, like an inspector in the police service. And we represent them at the collective bargaining table with the CPO and their interest. Otherwise we have engaged in a lot of welfare plans and programs to support our officers. And as well, of course, we advocate from time to time to ensure that the fire service is well resourced so that we can properly carry out our main core function which is the protection of lives and properties of the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago. [00:02:13] Speaker B: Now the discussion about fire services resources, their response to these events and everything else is back on the front burner. For the obvious reason. Yes, I had a conversation prior to Diwali when we usually have persons from fire services and then come in and speak to us and so on. And I can't remember the individual or the division that they represented or. But the conversation went on to focus on Princestown and the closure of the Princestown fire station and the challenges that it brought to Rio Claro and San Fernando having to now cater to their own districts and for this additional space that Princeton would have catered to. And I remember clearly in that conversation I had asked the question, you have one fire truck in Rio Claro? Yeah, one fire or two fire trucks? How many ever in San Fernando if there are more than one fire, what happens? And we went into the conversation of how dangerous such a situation is, but how real it is. And when this thing took place on Monday, I went back to that conversation because that's exactly what happened. You have one fire truck and you have more than one fire. A fire truck can't be more than one place at the point in time. [00:03:34] Speaker A: Of course not, you just can't. [00:03:36] Speaker B: So when we had the conversation Tuesday, yesterday about the fire services response, the poll question was on that. But I understood probably more than the average individual the challenges. We spoke to Leo Ramkes when he said to us that fire stations have half the amount of fire trucks they need for the number of fire stations that we have and all those kinds of things. Let's start with the criticism that some people are leveling against the fire services about its response. What do you have to say to these people? [00:04:09] Speaker A: Well, unfortunately we've had, you know, some calls in the quarter or at least some persons indicating that the fire service might have some blame to take on for the death of these three individuals. And I understand that persons are frustrated, they are grieving the loss of the minister and her kids and which is common human nature. We look for someone to turn to, you know, to put that responsibility on. I can see that the officers on the day who responded, we've spoken to some of them and they remain pretty disturbed by that. The fact that they responded with the limited resources that they had. And despite being under equipped, under resourced, they tried their best to bring that fire under control as quickly as they could. Now what has been persons have been pointing to is the proximity of the Arima fire station to the incident. And if anyone look at Google Maps or notice the area, well you'd see it's 62nd Drive. We'll get the officers there. Now at the time of that incident, the Arima fire station was already engaged in another commercial fire on the Tumpuna Road, the end of Tumpuna Road area. And that call came in approximately 10 minutes before the fire on Farfan Lane which led to the death of the minister. So had the Rima fire station been at station, had they been at, had they not been otherwise engaged then that might have been warranted criticism by the fire services late response. But because they were already engaged, the are fire station officers, that call now turned to the Tunapuna fire station. We pointed out in our press release yesterday afternoon that that station is located approximately 15 kilometers from the incident. That would take the officers, I mean we could all Kind of estimate in our minds how long it'll take to drive 15km or how long the driver is from Tunapuna Tarima, and that's with a functional vehicle, a vehicle that is not required to drag along the roadway 2000 liters or 2000 gallons of water rather. So these officers responded to the best of their ability. They arrived on the scene within, I believe it's 11 minutes or so from the time the Tunapuna Fire station was informed, shortly after joined by the officers from the Arima Fire Station after they completed firefighting operations on Tumpuna Road. So, I mean, I don't believe that the criticism is warranted, but I understand the anger and pain that the citizens feel. And we want them to direct that anger, that pain, that concern and even that blame onto the right source, the Fire Service Association. As you cited before, my predecessor has highlighted several times the challenges that we faced. When I took office last year, I continued on that same train and we've held several press conferences, we've written several correspondences to the Minister of National Security, to the Permanent Secretary as well as to the then Chief Officer and making calls and kind of ringing the bell as it pertains to the challenges that we are facing and the likely outcome. And for those reasons, it is even more frustrating to hear that my officers are now being blamed, when in fact we would have highlighted issues several times. And not only that, it's not only that we were not supported or changes were not made to assist the situation or improve the situation, but we were told that we were alarmist by the Minister of National Security. We were told that we were Confucianists by the Minister. The Minister went into the Parliament and indicated that the fire service is properly resourced. He indicated several times that there's no equipment shortages, that the Point 14 fire station is fully equipped, that they are breathing apparatus sets across the country. Despite, despite the several injuries to officers from smoke inhalation, and in my case more severe one, which was partial thickness burns to my entire face as a result of the lack of the breeding apparatus sets. So five of us remain dedicated, but we extremely stressed and demotivated and I don't believe the comments and the attempts to blame us for this outcome here will assist with that at all. [00:08:57] Speaker B: I. I find it unacceptable that these concerns of the Fire services department have gone unanswered for such a long period of time because no one can tell when tragedy will strike. And the fire services is an element of national security that is of paramount importance to the nation's safety. And yet still you have all of these issues that are not being looked at. And I mean, last night when I spoke to Leo Ramkuson about it, he went back how many years and how many people before him were talking about some of the very same things. And this morning you're sitting here with us, and from what you're suggesting, it does not seem as if, as if any progress is being made in addressing your concerns? [00:09:54] Speaker A: Unfortunately, no, I don't have any good news to report as relates to that. [00:10:01] Speaker B: When, okay, when last did the fire services get equipment? [00:10:09] Speaker A: Now equipment is abroad. [00:10:10] Speaker B: Okay, let me. When last time I got a fire truck, Right? [00:10:14] Speaker A: So even with that, I'll try to clarify a bit. The short answer to that is last year we received a firefighting appliance. But that appliance is what we call or we consider a support vehicle. It is not the first response truck that you expect to see if you would dial 990. So we received a truck that is known as a high tranche. And that truck is. It gives us the capabilities now of drafting water from an open source like the, you know, like from the Gulf. We could draft water now and use that to assist with firefighting operations in the city. But that really did nothing to assisted our. To ensure that all the fire stations throughout Trinidad and Tobago were outfitted with a firefighting, with firefighting capabilities. Now we have many fire stations that are without appliances. That was the case in the past when my predecessors highlighted it, and it's presently the case right now. In fact, after the budget or during the budget debate, when we had a look at the draft estimates, the Fire Service association for the very first time made a response to the budget. And we produced our own document and we named it the Firefighters Perspective. And there we delved into the allocation to the fire service and what it would mean and what it indicates the government strategy is and what we recognize in several key areas. There were major cuts. I'm not talking about 10% cut. I'm talking about cuts greater than 50% for appliances. For instance, the government, at least in this fiscal, reduced fire service budget by more than 60%, by approximately 60% for the purchase of new vehicles. So that vote had allocated $4 million for this year. A fire truck costs $4.5 million. So what the government is essentially saying to the fire officers, take less than the cost of a fire truck and get one. That's what it's saying when we look at other categories like healthcare was cut by 50%. Training vote was cut by 50% and it goes on and on and on. And that is despite our claims that we are under resourced. So clearly the issue of public safety when it comes to firefighting and developing and improving that firefighting capacity is not truly one of the main objectives or high order goals of this present administration. And it's unfortunate that now they are, with that on their conscience, are left to mourn the death of their colleague. [00:13:02] Speaker B: Well, what you're saying is not necessarily new, but it's greater detail because when we have these conversations there are people who seek to defend, for political reasons, for whatever their reasons, and suggest that, well, other than fire services, or they're just looking to make bacchanal. [00:13:25] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, confusion. [00:13:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Or they're just all they like the government or they wouldn't look bad and all that kind of nonsense. But you've presented evidence, or what can be construed as evidence of the government not putting the priorities where they need to be. And that is, that is saying it as nicely as I can on the radio. Because if you're going to cut allocations for purchase of new vehicles and not even allocate the amount of money that is required to get one, how is this situation going to improve? And what makes it even worse, and a greater indictment against the administration of the day is we have not one, but two very clear instances where a lack of proper equipment or a lack of sufficient equipment resulted in deaths. Had a mother and a child who died in Queen Elm for the very same reason that the fire tenders just, they were just too far away. It's not their fault. You know, logistically would have take time to get to this scene. And we all know that with fires in three, four minutes time, our whole house could be engulfed. And we saw what transpired with the mother and child. [00:14:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:35] Speaker B: Fast forward to this week. We saw what happened to Lisa Morris Julian and her two children. And we've had other instances. There was an instance in Maraval, I think, some time ago where three or two children were trapped, three of them were trapped in a building and it burned and they died. And more and more evidence of why we need to fix this thing. But it's not being done. [00:14:58] Speaker A: No, it's not. [00:14:58] Speaker B: So, so, so what are the options available to the fire services and to the firemen? [00:15:05] Speaker A: Well, the options available is to do what we're doing here is continue to make that public call and ask the public to join us in the call to ensure that those who run for office and vie for the leadership of this country takes Their public safety seriously. I was asked at a earlier interview whether or not I believe coming out of this, we are likely to see a change, a reassessment by the government in the way to allocate resources to the fire service. And immediately after the incident. I'm talking about the first few hours, I might have been a little bit more optimistic than I am now. And that's because when I look at the situation, what is different between yesterday's incident, day before yesterday's incident, and the one in Queenham? In Queenham? What's the difference with that incident and the three children in Marvel with the elderly man outside the fast or next to the fire station in Santa Cruz that doesn't have enough plans, took all those persons in bark in, not barkpaw, but in penal and surrounding areas that lost their homes because the penal fire station doesn't have an appliance. There's no difference. The only difference here is that the person who succumbed to fire and her family members are closely related, in fact, were part of the government of the country. The fact that it will take the debt of a minister for the government to recognize the recklessness of their continued underfunding of this organization to me is a thought that is very difficult to sit with. Right. It's very difficult for me to reconcile that fact. So I am, unfortunately, as the days pass by, growingly believe that it is unlikely to see a change from this administration, and especially not in the 90th hour, not when we are probably months away from the election. We. As I've indicated to the officers within the fire service, this is a political issue. It is a political problem. This is a decision. When the government goes to the parliament and reads a budget, that's a political decision they're making to prioritize some items over another. Maybe the solution for that is a political one. [00:17:36] Speaker B: Do you think a change in administration will bring better fortunes for the fire services? [00:17:40] Speaker A: I believe that's the only thing that we can look forward to. That's the only thing we can look forward to. We've had no response from this government when it comes to public safety and fire increasing our firefighting capabilities. We've had no statements from the prime minister prior to this incident surrounding the issues with the fire service. We've had no. No statements. No statements that are in line with what the facts are on the ground for the minister of national security. He has chosen at each turn when we highlighted the challenges to go to the parliament and provide political cover to his cabinet. And that's his job. But the consequences are what we saw on Monday morning. And the consequences, unfortunately, are what we might see in the future, again because of this lack of investment. [00:18:31] Speaker B: One of the most troubling elements of our discussion here this morning is the possibility that what happened on Monday, what happened in Queen Anne, what happened in Santa Cruz, what happened in Maraval, could happen again today. [00:18:46] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:46] Speaker B: It could happen again tomorrow. It could happen so many different times moving forward. And that does not seem to be the. To be the impetus for. For us to get the kind of action that is so sorely needed. And this is not about want, because, you know, many times when you have negotiations taking place in trade unions, raising their voices is about our want salary. [00:19:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:19:11] Speaker B: You know, we want more money. We. We want this. We want better terms and conditions and everything else. This is about need. This is about the fire services needing equipment so that they can get the job done, so they can run in a burning building and rescue people. They don't have that. And the response that you've outlined, and I must say, kudos to you for being as frank and as blunt with the conversation as we've been having, because many times when you have these conversations, people are guarded in how they make their comments simply because they fear repercussion. But I take it from your tone and from the things that you are saying that involve, number one, they're truth and factual because you can back them up, of course. And number two, you understand or you feel the urgency that is required, and that is why you are speaking out in the manner in which you're speaking. Because we don't get interviews like these. I'll be real honest, we speak to a lot of people, but there's always a politically correct approach to the thing. They want martial minister, too. They want to say this, they want to say that, but you've grabbed the ball by the horn. [00:20:19] Speaker A: Listen, the nature of firefighting is that we need to be absolutely decisive. We required. We have a standing operating procedure requires us to leave the station in 30 seconds in a day after that call comes in, and a minute by night only because it's dark. We get 30 seconds additional on arrival. That fire can grow at a rate of approximately double its size every second. Right. So we don't have time to sit by and play around the type of political games that some might play with issues as serious as this. Added to that, I am a fire professional. This is my profession. I've taken time to study fire engineering, science, fire safety, fire investigation and all the supporting courses. So When I'm speaking to this, I'm speaking to this from somebody who's very passionate about the importance of fire safety in Trinidad and Tobago. Added to that, the fire service do not only respond to fires but provide a number of emergency services to the citizens of this country. [00:21:24] Speaker B: I was, I was having this very same conversation with someone. There's a show on television, I can't remember where they focus on fire officers. I can't name anything, but it's about fire officers and they show you the things that they respond to. And I was saying to someone that in the U.S. fire officers are treated with very, very high regard because they are first responders in many instances. You have shootings, you have accidents, you have anything. Fire is most times there before the police, even in some instances. And from the time they get there, they start to act. They ain't waiting on nobody because time is of the essence. [00:22:05] Speaker A: It is. [00:22:05] Speaker B: And here at home we have this bastardized approach to treating with the fire services in that we don't seem to care. And I blame citizens for a lot of that because in this country we don't see issues based on the value of the issue. We see issues many times based on. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Who we support politically, who tighten our political party. [00:22:30] Speaker B: And that has come back to bite us in a very real way. And it's unfortunately it's only when your house on fire that you understand the importance of a timely response by the fire services and they having all the equipment that they need, need. So now that you've said to us that you all have been doing all that needs to be done in order to raise the issue and try to get action from the people who obviously not acting. And now you've taken a very vocal approach doing these interviews and raising the matter. What do you expect the outcome to be? I don't want to go back to do you expect things to change because you've said in nonsense in terms that things are not going to get better. You don't think they're going to get better unless there's a change in administration and a different perspective. But what can citizens expect to the people listening in to us now, if they go to bed tonight and smell smoke in the morning, what can they expect? [00:23:32] Speaker A: What citizens have to do when it comes to the fire protections. And it's unfortunate but I mean a good advice would be to as I said before, don't wait until your house is the one that is on fire. It might be good to engage in some pre planning and install like some fire protection devices. And notification devices like a smoke detector, fire extinguisher. And just speak to your family, including kids, as to what we will actually do if there should be a fire. If there's a fire in the living room, this. A fire in the main bedroom is a fire in the corridors. How we will all act. These are discussions that we need to have with our loved ones. Because the reality is that the fire service right now is so sorely we are compromised. We cannot provide type of support that people expect, especially people in the more remote areas and even in this case, some people in the heart of major towns. Right. People in. I mean, my in laws are from Piparu. Right. So I'm familiar with Piparu. Taba Keteria, the station that is responsible for responding there is the princess town. [00:24:46] Speaker B: Fire station which is no longer. [00:24:48] Speaker A: Which is no longer operational. [00:24:49] Speaker B: So that means Rio Clara had to come to them. [00:24:51] Speaker A: Rio Clara responds to Tabaquit or San Fernando responds to Tabaquit. You're talking about tacit 30, 35 minutes before arrival. Presently the sour fire station responds to Lafayette, Las Cuevas, Maracas, Blanchishe, the Sawa fire station. [00:25:09] Speaker B: You know, I listening to you and I can't help but shake my head because this is what our minister of national security says is well resourced. [00:25:17] Speaker A: Yeah, they believe that is acceptable. They believe that this is good enough. Good enough. And despite hundreds of families being displaced by fires annually, I don't think there's an aspect we look at. We consider death by fires. And that, you know, is what affects us to some extent because we've been so desensitized by the increase in murder rate. But hundreds of house fires we have annually. Where do those persons go after they are then displaced and then have to resort now on the. And friends and the generosity of friends and family members to either take them in or worst to depend on the government's inadequate government housing program that we know is overburdened. It's overburdened. So when we allow fires to occur and allow persons to lose their homes that they took their times to build and we now make them dependent on the state, that is now an additional challenge to the already limited resources that the country has. So we are not investing in the fire service. It is having real consequences. And our government minister seems to be quite fine with the status quo at the moment. [00:26:41] Speaker B: What is the mood amongst fire officers? Officers? [00:26:47] Speaker A: Fire officers remain committed to their jobs, but they are highly demotivated. We understand the importance of our jobs, so we would like to do it. But it's a difficult environment to operate within because imagine a painter being asked to paint a room and then he shows up and there's no paint, but it's been demanded of him to paint the room still, you know, the police officer being sent an emergency, and that is a robbery shooting, but he doesn't have a firearm. That is equal to what's happening in the fire service right now. We're asking firemen who. Yes, we receive specialized training, but that is to be coupled with the requisite equipment like our breeding apparatus sets that we don't have and we've not had for five years, a full complement of hoses, functional trucks, rescue lines, boats and so on. The government has been, as I said before, they have been making cuts in the fast service year after year after year without any explanation as to why. And it seems to me that they see they are set to continue in this trend for one reason or the other. It seems to be their objective to almost defund the fire service. [00:28:12] Speaker B: You know, these conversations are so important because apart from updating the nation as to what really exists, it highlights what you've said and what others have said to us, that people need to take a more proactive approach to their own safety. [00:28:32] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:34] Speaker B: And that can mean the difference between life and death. Because if you have a fire service that through no fault of their own. It's not like these fellas in M. Lyman. Even though there was a lot of criticism about what happened in Ryson Road and that proposal and that kind of thing. [00:28:49] Speaker A: Oh, that was actually a piaco, wherever it was. [00:28:52] Speaker B: But you know, those things coming at this point in time will get people upset. As isolated as it was, when you have a fire service that is as strapped for resources as this one, you have to become by force more able to treat with the immediate effects of a fire. I remember a couple years ago there was an incident in Shokonas where Diwali. Diwali night. These people, they put the deer wherever they thought was okay. And they went to bed or the thing was under some plastic and it catch. And they woke up in the middle of the night. I think somebody came outside or come out of the bedroom to go to the washroom and the corridor was filled with smoke. So obviously they closed back the door. They climb out the window to get everybody else out of the house. Call fire services. Fire services said to them that they are on another call, it could take them, whatever. So the people were able to extinguish the blaze using water, whatever else they had to use. Fire services eventually got there and the individual was saying that the fire services said to them this was about the fourth or fifth call that they had responded to on that night. You know, let's just say these people didn't wake up and, and, and, and, and the situation got to the point where they couldn't get out of the house. A simple thing like a smoke detector is such a valuable thing now, but some for some reason it's just it kind of hard to get people to do the right thing or to do things for their own betterment. Let's as we're almost out of time for the interview, let me allow you to give We've given the the advice time and time again, but you can never tell somebody didn't hear it and it might save a life. What are some of the things people should be doing? [00:30:48] Speaker A: Well, persons should again be discussing or having discussions with the entire family on the actions that we are likely to take in the event of a fire. There are also some very simple pieces of equipment that you can put in place to help notify you of a fire as well as to probably extinguish a small fire. Persons can purchase smoke detectors, battery operated smoke detectors, have those installed in either in every room or if we have multiple bedrooms that are served by one corridor, you can have one smoke detector serving that entire corridor. There are some really nice smoke detectors now that can be linked with your phones that will also so you'll have you can also be notified via your via post messaging or via the app that there's an incident occurring at my home and I will awake you or notify you to probably call the fire service or so on and purchase a fire extinguisher as well. I also want to advise persons when going to bed to be sure to close bedroom doors. That ensures that you have some additional time in the event that the fire should start in the living space or even in the corridor leading to the bedroom. I'll provide you some time to escape, most likely through a window or so on. [00:32:01] Speaker B: What about burglar proof? Because that has become a catch 22. [00:32:07] Speaker A: It's a must have and unfortunately I've gone to too many emergencies and found persons at the door face down at the door behind locked burglar proofing. I've seen it too many times and as I explained now the images come back. It's a difficult advice to give. We often recommend that persons have, at least in bedroom areas, multiple doors that have locks on it that they have that a key for that lock could be stored close by where they can easily get to. We also advise in the night to keep your keys on stands and keep them on the same place or at the same place every night. So that's a routine for you so that in an emergency you're not looking for your keys. Some persons reach home, they dump the keys in the bag, they don't look at it again until the next morning. But you must consider whether or not you'll be able to find the key and find the room in the middle of an emergency. [00:33:07] Speaker B: This has been, this has been a really interesting discussion for many reasons. The frank nature with which you've approached the discussion is refreshing because far too often we have incidents and state agencies don't really give their side of the story. They're hidden behind press releases or some of these other things and the public is left to speculate. And that kind of speculation is never good. It's not helpful because, yeah, it doesn't identify if there are challenges, what the challenges are. And I want to thank you for being with us here this morning. I wish I could say that, well, you know, things will get better because of what's taking place, but as you yourself identified, it doesn't seem that way. So the advice, ladies and gentlemen, to those listening in to us is A for apple, B for butter and C. [00:34:03] Speaker A: For yourself, C for yourself. [00:34:04] Speaker B: See for yourself in a situation as sad as that may be in a country that spends 60 something billion dollars every single year. I want to thank you for being with us here this morning. [00:34:16] Speaker A: Thank you so much, Satish. And the best insight, Instant feedback, accountability, the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.