Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight instant feedback accountability the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5 Trinidad.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: And Tobago Unified Teachers Association Martin Lumpkin Good morning to you sir.
[00:00:13] Speaker C: Good morning and good morning to your listeners of Freedom106 under me. Permit me to say Happy Emancipation Day to everyone in advance.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: It is the night before the holiday.
[00:00:25] Speaker C: I'm a naive my, my Emancipation Day clothing right now.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: You know I'm happy that you mentioned that and ashamed to say, you know I have no Emancipation Day clothing.
[00:00:37] Speaker C: I recently bought.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: Well God bless you. I do not own any. I don't own a dashiki. I, I wonder how good looking one you know much to be desired but I thank you for reminding me so much issues burning this morning that I had to dive into many of it. And one of those issues is the story that says that the unions are now calling for clarity after the Prime Minister's leaks wage increase or links rather wage increase to faith in God.
Now, are we blowing this out of context?
What do you interpret that to mean? President sir.
[00:01:15] Speaker C: Well, thank you for having Tutor on your show. Once again let me start off by saying that Tutor is also faith based as well. And we always believe in a higher supreme being and whenever we begin any of our activities we call on the presence of whatever faith that we do. So for the Prime Minister to use that term, we have no difficulty in terms of turning to God to assist as well.
However, when it comes to this issue, we are hopeful that the government of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago will find ways that will not negatively impact the country on a whole.
Let me see. As well too.
Tutor always takes into account the bigger picture. Yes, we want the best salaries, we want the best terms and conditions for our members. And we have been saying it's on record that we understand the economic challenges that the country is facing at this time and to put additional pressure on the economy by way of emoluments and regions. Now, because the cost of living has been soaring and our members have been finding it difficult to bridge that gap, we have to fight for better wages for our members because they have been negatively impacted. However, it is hopeful that what is presented to the public sector unions. So the chief personnel officer has been lumping all the public sector unions into one and offering all to the same package to all which, you know, in terms of collective bargaining and individual bargaining, it's, you know, a little bit difficult because we have certain situations that like any protective service and the teaching service that's unique and not common in the public service. So when we have those negotiations. We want to ensure that these factors are taken into consideration, compensable factors.
However, again, so when we signed off in April, just before the elections, as you're aware, we were accused of being pro government at the time.
Quite frankly to be said, we were PNM and we were trying to influence the elections. However, we would have taken quite a bit of the factors affecting. So besides local economy, you have geo factors in terms of.
So America had recently announced the tariffs on Trinidad and Tobago. Then you have the geopolitical issues as well too. You had the wars taking place in Europe and the Mideast. All of those things affect the economy. And so we had to take a decision and rightfully so.
You realize not one of the other public sector unions have been called to the table to continue the negotiations.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: But do you think that the government have the money? I mean at the end of the day they're now making the 100 days, the three months or whatever.
It's pretty early.
You know, budget is expected to be presented in a couple months. You know, do you think it's prudent now for us to push this narrative of this 10% supposed wage conversations with government at this time? Because she said she proposed a 10% wage conversation as far as I remember I didn't think it was. As I get into power I'm going to gift. It's a conversation. Those are. That's the language. I understand it to me which means when we get to the table, yes, are coming to the table with 10% as a conversation. But the reality is I could give all your seven would you accept it?
[00:05:39] Speaker C: Well, we have to look at. Well we have signed off already on the so called 5% and I'm saying so called because we utilize the external labor market survey and measure of the gap. Right, right. It worked out about roughly 28 or so closure of the gap.
However, what we want to point out as well too and tutor is consistent with this because the then Hon. Minister of Finance at the budget presentation 24 to 25 spoke about that 5% and we would have said negotiations takes place around the table. It does not take place by public decree.
The then prime honorable minister Tom Elmwood did say that and we came out and said it. We also on the political hostings would have taken note of the promise. But that is not a proposal, that's not around the table.
Politicians can see anything on the hostage in a political platform and then say to the persons they are promising it to. We didn't realize the situation at this time. And so now that we are in, we have done our analysis right. It may not be feasible, and I'm saying it carefully, it may not be feasible. The honorable prime minister did say we will keep our promises and we look forward to that and take note as well.
What we understand is it said that starting at 10%, so if you are starting at 10%, there is the expectation that is going to be greater than 10. It could be 10.5, 10.1, however greater than 10. And what wasn't clear as well too, what period are you offering that 10% and is it that it's going to be for every period or is it collectively because there are certain public sector unions that have not settled the last two and have this third one? So is it going to be that now when we met around the table with the CPU and persons can say we shouldn't take for granted what the CPO says because the CPO represents the employer, but we have built a relationship with the CPO who represents the employer. And he did say for our settlement, government will have no other choice but to borrow so to fulfill one, the new salaries and then two, the arising arrears out of the salary settlement.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: The thing about it is. Oh, my apologies, I didn't mean to cut you.
[00:08:39] Speaker C: I thought that's okay.
[00:08:40] Speaker B: All right. The thing is, you all accepted the 5% already. So that's already done.
Should go. If the government comes back to the table, is it that you all would like an additional five to make up the 10, are you going to seek for that? What period did you sign for?
[00:08:55] Speaker C: We signed for 2020-2023. Our period is not calendar year but academic year. So it's 1st of September or 1st of October of the year 21st of September 30th of September. It's around that period. So it's not January to December. Right. So.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: So you now have that is 2023. So you have 2024, 5 and 26.
[00:09:17] Speaker C: More or less, yes.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: Right. So would you be rallying your troops to the table for a round of negotiation talks for an additional 5%, whatever.
[00:09:29] Speaker C: The other public sector unions will get for that period?
We are quite clear, we are going back to the chief personnel officer because he has said around the table and proven that he is giving the same, the same offer to all public sector unions. So the previous two periods, all public sector unions were offered the quote, unquote 2% and 2%, which is the 4% for the two periods. And for this period all would have been offered the same quote unquote, 5%.
And so if the administration now through the CPO offers a difference and settles for one, we are confident that the CPO will come back and say to us, since we have given that offer, we are offering that additional to the unions that settle.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: The unions that settle. Understood. So as we get a bit further, are you also satisfied with some of the remedial works taking place at various schools throughout the country?
Have you taken a proactive approach to look at these things in order to prepare for the September opening of the school term, the new school year?
[00:10:46] Speaker C: Yeah. We met with the honorable Minister of Education approximately a month and a half ago after he would have made certain submissions in Parliament as it relates to the infrastructural works and the July August vacation program. And he spoke about roughly 265, 268 schools. When we met, we reached out to the honorable Minister to get a copy of the list of schools that have been earmarked. Because I want to say on the upfront, secondary school principals do go do report for work during the vacation period.
Primary school principals do not. Their vacation is the vacation of the students at this time.
And so if you're doing infrastructural work in primary schools, principals should be made aware in advance just in case they need to attend to anything in the school while repairs are taking place.
Two, we ask for the list because we ourselves can monitor what is taking place at the schools because we have representatives and we can give feedback as well too. And three, it is to us as the major stakeholder, it is best practice to share with us those lists. Now, the Hon. Minister did reach out to the association. We have not been able to meet, but we are looking forward to that. We are coming to the end of the third week of the seven weeks vacation.
Repair should have been at a heightened pace at this time because you want to complete. But we also are aware of the economic situation facing the ministry and by extension the government of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Now, it would be remiss of me if I didn't ask you this because what is happening? Schools are out.
Students are now sea is over. They are now going into new schools.
Let's revisit this conversation that you and I had roughly when you came in a while back a little while ago, because you're no stranger to freedom. From time to time, you chat with me on the morning rumble. This fee registration when you're going to schools. Schools are still asking for 600, 500, 1800 in some instances. Depending on the college or whatever it is. Is this legal?
[00:13:17] Speaker C: It is not. Schools are not supposed to be especially public and public assisted schools. If it's a private school then they are allowed. But public and public assisted schools are not. Sorry, are not allowed to have parents of new students pay a registration fee. So what do you mean sorry?
[00:13:42] Speaker B: What are the money for? Because students parents are saying they're going and in one particular school they say I had to pay 600. They didn't call it a registration fee, they call it other fees.
[00:13:54] Speaker C: Yeah, there are other.
So for example the schools PTA or PTC as they call it. They will have their fees that they would ask the parents to contribute to.
There are other areas like report books.
The schools do not get those report books free. They have to print them themselves.
And there may be other associated fees that now we have been seeing from the onset. If the Ministry of Education provides the necessary funding for our schools basic funding and those for infrastructure and provision of stationary photocopy. Because photocopiers in schools years ago were given by the Ministry of Education but the maintenance of such has not been forthcoming. Even purchase of printers and the serviceable and the consumables and printers. When you get your funding it does not include that as well. And those schools have to now get the necessary funding to keep their schools running. Especially in some areas of.
Because the funding have categories that you have to utilize the spending and you cannot go outside of that. There are some government assisted schools who have to pay for security.
The government schools fully yes, security is paid for. But government assisted they have to pay for their own security.
And secondary schools have to from there their vote and what they get funding from have to pay for telephone bills. Primary schools don't have to do that. So it is not straightforward and is not equitable within the primary government. Government assisted. Secondary government government assisted as well.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: Because these secondary schools now if this is the case right where some of these costing. Let's forget the government assisted. That is the government. The schools where government is helping out as it were. Let's go Lehman.
The straight out government schools. The Five Rivers Secondary Government School, the St. Joseph Government School, Convent, the convents, the Bishops, the Honesty High, the Corial, the Arima Senior not senior. They are in a secondary north, the. The secondary Central. El Dorado East, El Dorado West. These are government schools, but they are now these schools.
If you have to pay things for report books and. And stuff like that, shouldn't that be one figure across the board?
That because every school have A different figure. But if it's not the government assisted. Mr. Lumpkin, I'm talking about the government, government schools, the ones where government fully has to furnish and fund and all these things. Security personnel, it's not private, it's coming from mts. The government pays these janitors, the government pays for these things. Why are the fees fluctuating from school to school?
[00:17:17] Speaker C: Because different providers will charge different.
And to eliminate all of that, let the ministry provide it.
Let the ministry procure and provide to all schools and we wouldn't have to go through this. Let the schools focus now on what the schools are mandated to do, which is to educate the children and not have to raise funds, not have to seek funding in order to have their schools running.
And that has been our submission. So we would advise our principals not to charge a registration fee. That is against the regulations, the policies and so. But principals have to find unique ways of getting funding for their schools, especially when it does not come on time.
And so in order to keep it running. Yes, we've had that conversation and it is up to the ministry to look into it.
The ministry should look into it and deal with it. But ministry knows that it does not provide adequate funding, so it has no.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: Other choice to eliminate some of these fundings. Is it not prudent, would it not be proactive if these schools now look at electronic report books, for example, rather than having this printed copy that can be defaced, lost in some instances and all these things. How about they send electronic reports via email where you log in, or there's an app, a website, you log in there, put your child's ID information in and the reports from Form 1 to when they leave school generates.
So even after down to CXC slips, you get those things where you can just pull it up online and print your own copy rather than have a physical. Because to be honest, I can't even find mine.
Yes, do you have yours?
[00:19:15] Speaker C: I have my secondary report.
I kept it relatively safe. But you, you have hit the nail on the head.
We are into the, the age of technology where that could be done. Now some granted at some secondary schools have that system in place, but they would have invested in the software, which costs money up front. In the long run it will benefit, but then you also have to maintain the system as well too. Security wise, cyber security, etc. The Ministry of Education and I have to say when I was a principal, they were attempting to do such. They were attempting to have the registration, not the start of the registration, but when you have completed registration, you entered the data into the ministry's portal and it was supposed to assign classes based on your submission. And there was a part for report as well too. There was a part. Now the thing is that we have to also keep in mind that some of our parents don't have the resources as such or they don't have adequate access to as well. So when we had the first year registration there were a number of hiccups. Yes, it's the first year and you will have teething problems.
It doesn't mean that it's a bad system, but you just have to get through it. The same thing with the sea results.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: My thing is if parents come to register, they're given the option, would you like to have this E report?
Or you can pay $10 and have a board book, you know, give them. Because some parents may not have it, as they rightfully say. And they say, look, I go pay my $10 and get it because I don't have access to a steady stream of Internet. One text I saying, and they just thought that you should know. They said, and I have to do this very quickly. The news is coming up. I paid $10 for a report book to Coover Secondary School upon registering my son and $500 to Holy Faith Convent. For what, I do not know. I had to also purchase all the paraphernalia separately. Also Holy Faith Convent in Couva attempts to collect $600 to register your child for Form 6.
I just thought the good gentleman should know. And that is a texter's experience that just messaged me with this.
[00:21:42] Speaker C: Yeah, I know different parents will have different experiences depending on the school, but we are again of the submission that there should be no fee for registration into any public or public assisted schools. There may be associated and if there are associated fees that should be broken down for the parent to be aware of what you are contributing towards.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: And final thought very quickly, I have about 35, 40 seconds with you on this question. You know your thoughts as it relates to the wage negotiations and the 10% proposal. Do you think it's prudent for government at this time to really embark in such a. A hefty bill because not a one off payment. This is 10% ongoing. It's 10% increase.
It's a reoccurring expenditure. 30 seconds.
[00:22:31] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. If the government can find the funding and can give the public sector workers throughout a fair negotiations, we are for it. But the government will know the economic situation and we'll have to take that into consideration because we don't want to persons to lose jobs. And just to maintain that we want everyone. But also look at the cost of living. If you cannot afford to give in terms of the wage, bring down the cost of living such that the wages can accommodate a proper lifestyle for our teachers.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: All right. Thank you very much President Martin Lumpkin of Tutor. I appreciate your presence this morning. We will talk again in the not too distant future. Have a safe one.
[00:23:19] Speaker C: You're welcome. Thank you.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:23:21] Speaker A: The best insight Instant feedback Accountability the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
