Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio freedom 106.5. So with that being said, let's start our conversation as it relates to the procurement of these 67 new vehicles. I want to get the thoughts of the president and the association at this time, please.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: So anything to do with combating crime has to be viewed in a very positive way simply because crime is not in a silo for any particular sector. How does it affect the gas station owners? Now you have gas station operators and. Well, we represent the owners. The big difference is that we own our property and we don't depend on government subsidies and grants and so on. Right.
In terms of crime, if you, the customer cannot feel free to move around in Trinidad and Tobago, therefore you do not need fuel.
It's as simple as that. But it's not only to come to my business. You could go next door, you could go to the restaurant, you could go to the beach, you could go that you see in Trinidad we have a serious freedom of movement problem and it's really self imposed. I mean to say, Devi, you and I look in and around probably around the same age and when you look at how we were brought up to take a bicycle and ride to go from village to village or to jump in our maxi and we go to the malls at a tender age, I really cannot see children in primary school taking public transport to go to a movie by themselves. It's just simply not safe because we seeing the fights in school. Imagine a school being a safe place that you have so much fights and all of that. You know, I was listening to your program early this morning and I'm taken back by a comment you made. Imagine going to pick up your child in school only to realize that he has been murdered or she has been murdered and these things are not far fetched. But coming back to the vehicles, I think that, and this is just my opinion that we certainly have dropped the ball in terms of having a police presence in our communities on our roadways. And you know, the truth is that people do not fear them anymore. 67 Vehicles is a phenomenal asset addition to the police service. But let's understand what it is that $23 million being spent at 343,000 thereabout and according to the release was fully outfitted and I will assume lights, radio markings and whatever. And when you juxtapose that to what a normal ralph for sells, it's still significantly less. So of course it looks like it has some bulk purchasing savings there. Of course I Do not know because I do not have the receipt to see if motor vehicle tax was added, customs was added and so on. And these duties because of course, once you start to shave off that and you look at it as a real customer, right, Then you understand whether it's any true savings or not. But let's put this $23 million spend towards or against our budget allocation and from national security, that is 0.003 something of a percent.
And if you're using this mathematical equation, a thousand years to replace all your vehicles.
So the real question we need to find out is, is it an addition to a current fleet, is it a replacement or is it an upkeep? Because I have wore several hats over the years and I will tell you, under the business association, we repaired 18 vehicles. And that was probably about six years ago. And I found out very recently they have one again.
So where are you going?
Who is being responsible for these fleets? Right? And of course, we as a population cannot draw the line or the connection between government spending and our tax dollar is almost as though it is from two complete separate pools. So, you know, as I say, while we are happy, we need to be accountable. We need to feel our presence. People, our citizens, our customers, our staff need to feel that freedom. I mean, I said I'm speaking on the Freedom Radio, but we need to, we need to have that freedom to exercise whatever our country has to offer in our movement and the way we carry out our daily lives.
So anything to do that is very much welcome.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: I want to agree with you on something that you mentioned a few moments ago about the free movement of persons being able to traverse us, our children for that. And I remember some years ago, I am talking, I don't want to say how many years ago because I will expose, you know, but I remember a break in at our family home and having to report to a police post.
This is a house in the area that the police station is in. So there's a post. It's not a station with a bedroom as a holding B cell if they hold a criminal.
And I remember, you remember the chopper bicycles. I remember the detective coming to our home on a chopper bicycle. That is the bicycle for those of you who don't know, with a big wheel in the back and a small wheel in the front. And the officer riding and three gears, three gears on the bar that you could change. And the police officer was riding that to our residence and he came with a little brush to do fingerprinting. He had a notebook and a pen In a small. What. What it is called a fanny Money panning. What what? A pouch, a napsacker. Them little pouch go around your waist. Them fellas is where people that's weighed around your waist and clip it. He had one of that and he came with that. And his, his id, it wasn't a badge, a little ID card thing saying easy police and so forth. Over the years we would have seen police officers saying we have no vehicles.
The owners association saying they are very pleased. But do you think 67 is significantly a great accomplishment in my opinion, I'm asking you, do you think that is a great accomplishment?
[00:06:26] Speaker B: And if so, why it's a great accomplishment by.004?
Well, right, it's a great accomplishment by.004. So I don't want to be facetious, but. But nobody in Trinidad and Tobago, right, as a population really know what is the foot of the TTPS vehicle matches what it should have that is clearly guarded and all of that. So 67 is great because I 67 they would not have.
Let's understand that there's an additional resource that they needed that they don't have. So of course we welcome. That being said is we do not know if they need 6,000 and that that is where he point lies.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: Because I will tell you, there's no transparency.
[00:07:20] Speaker B: Well, because national security stuff clip guarded, heavily guarded. Right. I suppose that is why we don't have it to the public. But I'll tell you this, as Trinidad and Tobago citizens, there's only a mere small percentage of us that really commit crime but terrorize the 90 something percent of us. Agreed this is a reality.
We the 90 something percent see a police vehicle on the road, suddenly we make sure we have a seat belt.
Suddenly we make sure we do have selling in hand. We're not speeding, we obey the laws, right? But the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5% don't really care about that.
And that is the sad thing. So we need to make sure that we carry the fight from TTPS to the criminals. Now because I have said numerous times on the media, crime in Trinidad is not due to lack of opportunity, but a mere lifestyle or vice. Because these 3,4% of the population there are opportunities.
Prior Ministry of Youth had plenty things that were given stipend to elevate yourself education have the same thing. Now the new minister, Mr. Alexander, Roger Alexander, he being a man moody grom as we call him in our area, he would have a lot of, I don't want to say knowledge, but he will have some Experience, he will have intelligence, no intelligence or the ability to get intelligence. Now, having this office for one month, there are two things here is one that we welcome him and we welcome that he's meeting with all the various stakeholders including associations here and the cries what they could do and he will let the partner. But I honestly hoping to see in the very near future that the action man, Roger Alexander takes into effect and start to go into any crime riddled areas. Because coming out from the last state of emergency, that is what we as associations and in business groups we're expecting to see something that really pushed back at these criminal elements. And not until we could do that, I think that we're spinning top in mud.
So on your program you're talking about the commissioners.
Well, nobody really knows him. I certainly do not know him. But that do not say that he's not qualified nor does it say he is.
Because you can have a lot of academic qualification and really do not know how to manage your business like the minister.
I say the commissioner has to be CEO equivalent.
Okay, we know policing is investigative and all of that and all that. But as an organization that you have to manage assets. You have to know what is your rate of return. You have to know what is being depreciated and how do you manage all of these together as one. And if you don't have that, well, the most important thing is you're willing to get help.
The ODA stands ready and available in any way it can to help any ministry or any office holder. Because we understand that is not about politics.
It is about leaving Trinidad and Tobago for our great grandchildren so that we can stand proud to know that hey, we have done everything in our career, in our life to make sure that that generation is there. As you know, our parents really would have gone at great lengths to make sure we were educated. That was the legacy. But the socio economic lifestyle was not really important because they had it. We were raised by a community.
Community look out for each other. I'll tell you this. In most cases people don't know their neighbor anymore, much less a talk or like or dislike. And that is where crime is yours problem in your 5,000 square foot in your apartment. And you don't understand that it is the whole apartment building it impacts is the whole street, is the whole village, is the whole hot spot, right? Because there are areas in Trinidad that once was booming and now crime is riddle at it and it's a good storm. Market values are real estate for people not coming to commerce. And then it's just being taken over by. By. By elements that nobody wants and a.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Handful of them are data. Not to say is the wider populace a handful of miscreants in an area tearing down this entire place. Now what is the ode the association's position now acquiring these 67 vehicles as you said, is a good thing.
It's 0.0, 0.40, 0.004% out of the grand scheme of things. When you look at the the budget allocation for national security in Trinidad and Tobago under the past admin.
So 23 million spent or so thereabouts.
But that's getting the new vehicles. These vehicles require maintenance.
When these vehicles go down, we end up with a graveyard of derelict vehicles in various police stations. And if you're passing down the highway on the left hand side, if you're heading west and on your right hand side if you're heading east, there's a set of derelict vehicles there. What is the association's position on maintaining and upkeeping these vehicles when the time come?
[00:13:03] Speaker B: So around my conversation you need to have a CEO level experience in managing assets. This is where it is. So in my previous hat as the Arima Business association president, what we have found in fixing the 18 vehicles is that I do not know if this is still the case. So you know it's just right to exact vehicles were done one more dumb than the other. Like we call one write off and you could take part from the write off one to get that one working. And they said no, they can't do it because they had to have approvals and TRA la la. And so. Right. Of course in our industry, in any organization two can make one. At least you get an asset on the road. So any thinking has to change.
2 accountability.
Oh, you think that is jumbi that caused all them vehicles? What we're seeing in Barrataria, the damage, any graveyards?
No. If somebody was using a vehicle that caused his damage, who is being held accountable? I understand and I'm subject to be corrected because these six seven years information previous right. That it was too much for people to write up.
All right. What about insurance?
Have you ever heard that the state made a claim for insurance? Probably they have. I'm not saying yes, I'm not saying no. But you're not hearing it. So where is the taxpayers value for money in maintenance? Maintaining these vehicles and these that only maintaining these Just fixing up damaged vehicle and holding people accountable. All right, let me talk maintenance.
They once upon a time used to have police mechanics that has since changed and then they started to use I believe couldn't handle workload and then they.
[00:14:57] Speaker A: Have more than could only work more than the workload they were owed monies.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: Well they're all government so it's part of where subsidy going where tax dollars going, right. And if you pay any government let's just say for argument's sake to change oil, right. And it costs $100 but you could get it $20 on the outside. Shouldn't we look for value for money not because it's a government agency that we must take it. And of course you'll hear in time and time that I'm going to refer to these sort of statements because in our industry where National Petroleum is continuing to make a loss year upon year, right. And that is taxpayers money and of course we the owner dealers have no say or how to say it any clearest point of terms it is understated because owner dealers like us bears plenty of the cost that NP don't have.
So it's the same thing with the police and where the spending and is where the taxpayer dollar going and where which is the the best way Maintenance has always been a huge issue with ttps.
However the answer simple answer could be providing we have the money and God know we don't have any money is to have somebody accountable per car. So just like these states because of course as the presence is where it is right, not everybody have a kind not practical but so if it's not practical, where's the next step? Well you have a checklist. Every station has somebody who is I don't call them a fleet manager but who is more or less in charge of the cars make sure it clean, make sure it fuel etc. Well you go with a checklist now and at least you hand it over to this shift and that shift and hold them down. But is yourself holding your counterparts accountable? And that I think where lies the.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: Issue because you know and I agree with you and I want persons to know not every officer in a station sometimes the police tell you we don't have a vehicle available. It's not and you look at your audience two vehicles park up but it's not every officer authorized to drive the police vehicles. So sometimes the driver on shift didn't come out he on sick leave or he didn't come out on this shift, this shift is abandoned because if there's a an emergency the bureautic red tape to get at one of these other officers to jump in that vehicle and drive it to the emergency the backlash Is terrible for the officer. So officers will tell you listen, we. We have no arm, no vehicles available to respond. Let's try and get the nearest e99 respond and they will call for another station down the road. Let's say in St. Joseph they're calling Kwai Dong San Juan Santa might be put on a patrol somewhere up in mover. So there are no vehicles and you in distress into Napuna or.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: Well, they said that it's not a jurisdiction. I cannot, I cannot respond because that is not my area. And you being a victim of a crime, you don't want to hear that all is ttps all. All is national security. All oil is to protect and serve. Can't you just as you want our policy do the initial investigation, do the initial thing and then then transfer to the station.
Anything is to you raise up on you're seeing vehicles people not authorized. So this vehicle might be assigned to somebody senior so they can use it. This vehicle might be assigned to a department or a department and your car use it. You being a victim of crime that is of no use to you.
You paint off. Understand that all the citizens in this country, regardless they pay grade or class or whatever you all are paying for this tax dollar, you are contributing towards national security payment. And we as a citizen need to have a proper rate of return on it.
We need to have feeling safe because when you look at budget allocations, right, your top three have always been national security.
And tell me any last 15 years where you feel comfortable, 20 years where you feel comforted, hey, money well spent, it's just not happening. So we need to do something different.
So, and this might be political, but when Gary Griffith was there, whether you like him or not, he started to instill fear into the people. Forget about the PR&E rhetoric and he he backing at every but we still started to feel that a things was coming out. I lead the charge for ful's responses. Back then, prior to Gary's coming in the office, we was taking the then commissioner to task for response, right? People wanted firearms simply because it felt unsafe. But a firearm is a burden for anybody to carry.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: I am happy that you said that.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Anybody with a firearm in our will gladly tell a boy. When I travel, wherever it is, I feel so safe I don't have it. I don't have to watch and worry. But firearm and the Stanley ground thing, the stand your ground law, is that what they're trying to push and implement, Right?
It's all because security is where it is today.
So why not Fix that problem.
Of course, Stan, your grong in my humble opinion is very subjective because your ground could be a personal sort of impose. It could be that I feel threatened and your ground could be possession.
You buy my car, you buy my house. That is very different. So I mean I say I know that there are self defense laws and somebody shows harm and if fear for your life TRA la la. So I'm not sure. I'm eagerly waiting to see what is being put out before I comment more on it. But the underlying fact is that all of these things are because we feel unsafe.
It's as simple as that.
[00:21:13] Speaker A: And that is what persons don't understand. And I'm very happy that you mentioned two things you mentioned in, in your discourse a little while ago. You talk about the burden that ful holder carries when this firearm is on his person or her person. And you talk about the standia growing legislation that is not before parliament as yet. So much of talk in the public domain about and speculation with referrals to foreign entities, foreign countries such as we talk in Florida, Tennessee, Texas and all these places. But I think it's a very myopic approach in that because you have this tunnel vision about the standing ground law. But there's nothing there.
So we have to wait. Let's see what the, what the. The government is presenting to Parliament the wording. Let's read it, let's see what it, what it represents for us and then we can speak on it. We are just jumping ahead and fear mongering as it's saying just to try to.
To what? To song intelligence in a discussion. But there's nothing to discuss.
That's one correct. And the burden of the fulfillment. And if I am, I mean if you could have elaborated a little more on it, you know, I felt a sense of please when you mentioned that because one, one particular caller on my show will always call and talk about this government willing to give everybody guns and a society of guns, not taking into account that everybody has to go through psychometric testing, psych evaluations. You had to be competent enough, you had to be trained, you had to learn to use this firearm. You have to be capable. It's not you alone, it's your entire family have to be interviewed and spoken to investigations about you before they can issue this firearm. It's a process. The bureaucracy, the bureaucracy of the process, they're gonna, they're gonna lessen in terms of the long winded process. But it's still the psych evaluations and all these background Checks ain't gonna change.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: So. So you're spot on, right? In fact, your application, Let me talk about the application. You get it or you get right. Needs to have a timeline from the time your file goes in. They have certain amount of time. Assuming that, okay, these are your requirements one, your psychiatric evaluation, your medical competence, your eye or whatever it is, right? They have list one to five.
So it's submitted. They must have a timeline from then on for you to get a response. Because it's the same thing that we was trying to do. Can you imagine applying for a driver's permit? Well, me, I know if I'm not.
So you need to know that hey, by this time I'm inspecting this or I may need to do 1, 2, 3.
Now in terms of you're getting it. Far too often you hear people get it because who they know the qualification, whatever it is and they need to hammer that investigation or that policy and so on for that. People who are really worthy of it because in a layman's term, can you imagine everybody in Trinidad have a firearm? Okay, let's imagine that for a second.
What happened to the.004% or the 5% that are criminal alike?
Okay, what happened to the. Now in addition to that, the irresponsible people that who arrogant, ignorant, road rage, drunken behavior, do you think that they are deserving? The answer is absolutely not. So you need to have regimented terms and conditions and policy in which you qualify as well as you need to have something after that. Now after you got it, I remember, I think it was Williams who had a card so you won't have your book, you wouldn't get a card and on that card just like your credit card or to have a QR code or magnetic strip so that when you go to arrange that you have to do certain amount of training and so on and so on. But we always tend to water down the process. I'll give you a serious joke, a psyche evaluation, a real one, something that is court ordered or so on my understanding and forgive me if the information might be slightly incomplete, right. These evaluation of course maybe about 7 to $8,000 and that is for proper one done. If the court say hey, for parental custody or for whatever to show you're not crazy, you need to do it.
However, when this was imposed in the probably past 10 years to say that this was a pre requirement, there are some places giving you a one page or a two page for 500 hours.
So look at the vast difference. A book of documents and tests and whatever that you would have had to go at least probably three or four times to do a proper evaluation to carry or parent or to carry a weapon that could kill people as opposed to a two page five minutes document. You know, how could this be readily accepted by the industry?
Right. Of course.
I think the law has changed. Prior to me dementing that office, there was one thing in the legislation there that has to be legal. The commissioner, I'm trying to remember the word, but it's in his discretion, he will allow it or not allowed. And how that was interpret is that if you have no documents and his discretion or her discretion say that hey, you need it, you get it, but you don't need it. Now you can get. Despite all the other parts of the world saying that you need it or you're not needed.
I believe it has changed. But that was then so that nobody could challenge any commissioner for giving none or giving too much.
As it stands then, I'm really not familiar with the loan now.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: It could be around the same, you know, because I. When persons mention about Gary Griffith and things he did and that kind of thing, I always tell persons he was. Every police commissioner would be given the office and the parameters 20 by 20. This is your running field. Most some commissioners, they sit down in a corner, they do occupy the entire office. And what do I mean by that? In layman's term, you are managing a company. We give you a budget of $500,000 for the financial year. And we tell you no, you are to take this $500,000 you had to pay over time, get stationary, whatever the department needs. That's your budget for the year. But we telling you here, we're going on our chattelgoon. You see this 500,000 here.
The more you bring back, we're gonna give you a 10, 15% step on that.
So what happens? You there now, you not paying overtime, you work to be done. The department becomes inefficient. Because in your mind, if I carry back 450,000 out of that five and you check the percentage on your step, you nice, so are you. And that is similar to what takes place now.
[00:28:27] Speaker B: So in any private environment, perhaps that might be the situation where of course savings and so on. Right now, if it's clearly management and management style, it is every manager or every human has things that he or she might be better who have his personal interests or things that he or she knows. So you tend to gravitate towards that.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: Now when I, when I made that comparison, that was in Comparison to Gary Griffith. Gary get this and tell him they gave Gary 500 square feet to work with. He worked with the whole 500 square feet.
[00:29:05] Speaker B: So Gary was in every organization to run it successful. That is what you need now in government institution partner if your budget is a dollar and you spend 80 cents next budget you're going to get 75 because he was able to run 80. So these why people or systems and ministry look to start to make sure and spend it up now if it's real value for money I really can't say. We all have our own opinion on that. How it has been done for the past hundred years in this country.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: Mr. Chattagoo and I want to thank you. I am out of time as I have some commercial commitments and then news is coming up to the top. I want to really thank you because personally I. I do usually I try not to share my personal thoughts on matters with certain things. But I think the 67 new vehicles that we attained here I am still not 100 satisfied. I'm concerned we have communities in Toko Mearo and these far reaching areas in Trinidad where persons are telling us reliable sources that officers are using their personal car to attend to members of the public in the communities because there is zero police vehicles. Not that they have one and the driver not there. I know they don't have it but.
[00:30:27] Speaker B: So go ahead. If. I mean in conclusion.
[00:30:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: In conclusion that you hit the nail on your head because when you look at crime allocation. Right. If the northern division of which I am part whether it be Curep Orema is first, second and third in every category in crime. Right. But yet Port of Spain have significantly amount of resources. I was at a conversation or in a meeting recently and there's something called a call to service in Arima station because that's why I'm familiar with Mooch. Right. The. The call to service is so much phenomenal that they don't have the resources and nobody we still in Arima living and working out of a situation that is about 50 years old.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:31:12] Speaker B: So again management and resources where what needs to be would be the best way to apply. Because you could give the 67 vehicles and say one for everybody. But there are some people that might need five.
[00:31:25] Speaker A: Exactly my point.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: That have 25 right now and you go and give them one. So I have 26 not available. Of course I don't have that data.
[00:31:34] Speaker A: Yeah but I need to look at it and. And I want to thank you. I have to leave it here. But I thank you for raising that point because it is my thought process. You have a stationary, they need three. But because these 67 allocations, you want to spread it across divisions when you shouldn't, they need it.
And you see this assignment, this vehicle assigned to this department. So if they're not operational, you want to leave it there. John, Public needs to be aware of this. And I thank you very much, Chantagoon, for chatting with me this morning.
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