CHILD TRAFFICKING

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. [00:00:04] Speaker B: The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5. [00:00:08] Speaker A: Once again, good morning Trinidad and Tobago. It's eight minutes after the hour of 8:00 clock. Welcome back here on Freedom 106.5 FM. We are talking with Dawn Petgrave and we are dealing with the issue of child trafficking and what it connotates. So when children don't want to talk, what happens, how the state can pursue these things. And we want to delve a little bit now. Dawn, thank you very much for staying with me. Get a little, a little bit heavier. A texter drop a message for us. Let's hear what this person had to. [00:00:33] Speaker C: Say daily morning with respect to your guests there in Jamaica and this conversation that you're having about raping of this child that is very, very prominent in Trinidad and Tobago, unfortunately, and it continues today. We these rapists. I find the laws of this island should change. The mother must be aware. The mother must be aware whether she was in, she is in abusive relationship. She is a big woman. She's supposed to bore this child and protect the child till the child is able to protect herself. 12 years. No. So the mother, the mother is really culpable of this scenario, right? She's also called culpable of this scenario. These men that do these things to these children, they are heartless and they should be placed on a list of rapists so the public can see their faces. We have a thing in this island. Oh, that is confidential. You can't do that. They can't do this. We don't know who the hell this rapist is. No, no, no. That for them old time thing, it done, it done. That has to stop now. Their faces should be publicized, right? So the public could know who the hell these rapists are. And the law has to change to put these fellas in jail. We have plenty room. But I'm in jail. Oh, gosh, boy. Think about the child now and what this child, this little beautiful creature that woman create, man or woman create to bring into this world. And, and no, no, no, no. Even thinking about it, it is draw tears to your eyes and break your heart. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Boy. David boy. No, no, no, no, no. These fellas and them should be kept away for life. And their, their pictures should be posted. I have been, I have been asking for that for years. Post it up. Let them with their name, their age and all, all the information needed from family. What the family name is. No, no. Embarrassment is a hell of a thing. And this island lord father. So point up Davy, let him point up. [00:03:34] Speaker A: One of the things with that it encourages vigilante justice. And while you know, based on how you come across so emotional about the issue, I am no psychologist but if dawn chimes in and I say anything that she disagrees with, she will let me know. And you know me, I never afraid to apologize. But the thing is, I think it is it would not be prudent of government or to post the people's information, especially family members and say there's. Because if you can't get to the, to the. The perpetrator then the little brother, the little sister could be deemed. Could be treated with with a measure of hostility. The parent of that man could be treated with hostility by the community and others in. In society who don't know. Now if you happen to know the family and know that dawn, pet Grave and the husband, they did everything the church going, they really try with the child and the child just bad, you find. We understand Dawn. We know you make the child. We don't make the mind. But most times we judge the family members. We judge parents, you know, because the parents and family members, they still support their loved one, you know, they still love the person. My child is a murderer. But they would prefer the child be in jail than you sentence the child to hang. It doesn't mean that if their child commit the most heinous crime and we put them to death by the state that the parents and siblings of the child are going to cry. But then when you, when the wider society see the. The relatives and family members pouring out their heart and crying, they tend to think that you supporting that what you crying for what your child do. So sometimes, you know, you need to protect the innocent in these matters. And I don't know before I get to the next point, dawn can probably chime in there quickly and see if I me and no doctor, you know, Dawn. [00:05:27] Speaker D: All right. My background was a little loud so I was trying to mute it. Can I just thank that caller? I don't know if it was a call or a message, but thank him and I could feel his passion. And Davey, when you have experienced this firsthand, it hits differently. So there are a couple of things I will say for this particular mother with the pregnancy involved. Obviously, you know, that's, that's very apparent, you know. And again, when you're not in a situation, it's easy to say so why she don't report or why she don't do this or why she don't But I'm telling you, you don't know. You don't know. Is it hard to digest? I mean, this is something that I've have had to deal with firsthand in my own family. And persons were quick to make comments, very quick to make comments. So she didn't know, so she didn't see. You know, that's why I don't let any man around my children. You get these comments and then it's all mothers who are actually trying are not protecting their child enough. But we have to understand that an abuser, whether it's a sexual abuser or physical abuser, most of the time it's being done in secret. I just spoke to a past student of mine. She posted something on Instagram and I had to call her immediately. It was untold stories and persons listening if they want to look it up. Her name is Kim Kelly Mua. So this is public so I could share this. And I called her and she says, auntie dawn, it was my uncle. And every night he would rape her until one night it got so bad he busted her up that the blood seeped through the mattress. And that was when the family now recognized that wait, something really, really something is going on. And as you said, the perpetrators are somebody's child. The mother of the uncle, obviously her grandmother hid him, did whatever they could to send him away. Now, I first came across when she was a student. She was on a. She was on a project with me and she was doing makeup and I saw her arm and I saw cut. So I grabbed her hand and I said, what's this? And she says, nothing, Auntie Don. So my students call me Antidon, Nothing, Auntie Don. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. What's this? She didn't want to talk, so I didn't force her. So I said, promise me you will find another outlet. So David, this topic is such a hard one, number one to talk about, number one to even imagine. Because in my own private practice, Devi, over 90% of the women that I see have either been raped or molested as a child. And the statistics shows that only 1 in 10 persons report. So now I have the opportunity to speak with this young lady and I said, I need to understand why didn't you say anything? And she said, auntie Dawn, I felt like it was me, my fault. I didn't want to mash up the family. I didn't want them to say I was lying. And so the victims most time feel that it is their fault. And so many times when we see children acting out because remember, the man is not fully developed until age 25. And I speak strongly to teachers because when a child come to school and they're acting out, it's so easy to shove them in the corner and label them boy, this little girl bad, or this little boy bad. But we need to now start taking the time out to talk with them, just to find out what is happening. Because most of the time, David, they do not have the capability to articulate what is going on with them. And so they act it out. So cutting self mutilation is a big thing. And you will see them sometimes drop into drugs, alcohol, explicit sex, and literally, when they become adult, join the cycle of now being in abusive relationships. And like the gentleman said, it's so prevalent, it's so prevalent in the Caribbean that it's almost the norm. It's almost the norm. And it breaks my heart because we're not talking about this loud enough. And you know, churches, I get on churches a lot because most of the cases that I've dealt with, the perpetrator is somebody who is in church. Davy, heavily involved in church. And this is why it's so easy for them to get away. Because nobody, if I said I'm a pastor, I would hope that my character and people are going to trust me. You know, David, if you said you're a radio announcer and you're a host, chances are somebody's gonna invite you to host a party or an event because of, right? So a lot of time children drop their guard. And here's another thing. They look for children who are most vulnerable. Who are most vulnerable. And you know, like I said, this is such a difficult topic to talk about, but I want to speak to parents and teachers. Don't take anything for granted. Don't take anything for granted. So even if you see the child start developing maladaptive behaviors or just abnormal behaviors, and the child keeps saying, nothing is wrong, nothing is wrong. Don't take that, don't stop, don't stop until you get to the bottom of what is happening. Now, like you said earlier, if a child don't tell, you just won't know, right? You won't know. But for the most, don't stop trying until you get to the bottom of what is happening with that child. And not only our daughters are being raped and molested, we need to think about our boys also. And they worse are not going to tell. [00:12:16] Speaker A: I am very grateful for that preamble there. Why I said, if the child doesn't want to Speak. It simply means when the police are investigating who did this to you, who is the boyfriend? I don't know. I don't want to tell you. So you have no idea where you're going to go. So you really have to come down to some brutal policing, real policing. You had to pull out forensic and forensics. You had to get the, the, the, I forget the name of that famous detective out of England. You had to come out with your, your little thing there and really look your, your microscope and look to find the evidence and clues that this child, because she doesn't want to tell who the man is or prosecute for fear, you don't know. All right. Yeah, we spoke a little while ago. [00:13:07] Speaker D: Women are also molesting. Let me just share that too. So women are also molesting or little girls. There was a case that I had to deal with the young lady, her mother works and so the neighbor didn't work and so the mother would have her stay by the neighbor after she comes home from school until the mother gets home from school. Well, it was that female neighbor that was molesting this little girl. [00:13:31] Speaker E: Wow. [00:13:33] Speaker A: We look at this consensus here in Trinidad, once upon a time, 16 years could give consent for sexual relations. 17 years. But at 16 you could tell a man or a woman, yes, I want to have sexual relations with you. And you could engage legally, but you couldn't legally obtain a driver's license. You couldn't drive a car then at 17, which is still the norm in Trinidad, you can drive a car, you can get a license at the age 17, but you couldn't buy cigarettes or alcohol or even vote. And then you had to reach until you're 18 in order to sign a document, be able to vote. And then the minister then changed the law, she advocated for it very strongly and it was dealt with in, in Trinidad. So we no longer have 16 year olds giving consent to sexual activities. You have to be 18 now, but still at the age of 17, you can handle a motor vehicle, you can go down, get your license, your learners and you can start, you can, you can get your license at 17, drive yourself to school for six, for six form. But you cannot legally have sex in this country. So we're grateful for those laws. And Jamaica, Jamaica is behind, so they need to get up to times with it. So we're grateful for that. But that was a thing done right here in Trinidad that happened. [00:14:57] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:14:58] Speaker A: All right. Just a few years back, we were in the same predicament as Jamaica where we have 16 year olds saying yes for sex. But the thing about it is this. You said a mind of an adult develops at 25. So how could an 18 year old say I can have sex? 21? Do they really understand? Have they passed the bloom of youth to know what relationships are like? These are just some questions that I'm throwing out there for persons to pay attention to. You know, good morning. My husband used to beat me for years. My daughter was a preschooler. She used to bawl and cry and run out the house. She witnessed it till late teenage. Now she is suffering from deep depression. What would you say about something like this? [00:15:48] Speaker D: Okay, so DV doesn't just affect the two individual but it gravely affect our children, especially boys and mothers. So boys grew up feeling helpless and unworthy because they weren't able to protect their mother. Perfect example. Will Smith just launched his book. I don't know if you have read it yet, but one of the things that Will Will spoke about in his book is how all his life he's been a coward. And so he developed this very charismatic character for people not to see how coward he was. And that came from one night he watched his father, I think broke his mother's jawbone or something and he did nothing about it. And he grew up with that all his life. And so children grew up afraid, ptsd. Every time they hear noise, a quarrel, just somebody even raising their voices, it brings back trigger. They feel worthless a lot of the times. And then they themselves, because this has been their blueprint, they themselves now attract an abuser to them if they have not gone through therapy. I was working with a mother and her three children. The mother went through a divorce and I was working with the three children and one of the child said this to me, Ms. Petrave, I am glad that they divorced. I said explain. He said, because there's no more fighting in the house. But when I go to work, if a pun drop pet grave I'm running. If somebody raised their voices, my heart is beating like it is going to come out of my shirt. So we need to understand that persons will say, oh, them young and them don't understand domestic violence affect children terribly in their adult life. We have to raise our voices. We have to raise our voices with our girls, talking to them about these things, having conversations with them. We need fathers. We need fathers for the little girls to understand how they're supposed to be loved by a man and how they're supposed to be treated by a man. So the first sign of any form of abuse that can catch it and walk away. So, Davy, we need families. We need families and we need fathers. There's a role that fathers play because think about it, David. If the person who is supposed to lead, provide and protect is the person that is causing the abuse, do you understand the confusion in a child's mind? And this is why sometimes we have so much trauma bonding, you know, Stockholm syndrome. Because he's supposed to be my father, but he's the one that's causing the pain. But I love my father. I remember this one young lady, she, in her session, she told me that her father was, was. Was raping her. And they finally found out and he got arrested. And she said, Ms. Petra, I miss my father. She missed her father, the same person who, who was sexually abusing her. So you have to understand, the poor brain is not able to articulate that something bad, this person did something really bad to you. And most of the time, David then left feeling like it was my fault. Most of the time it was my fault. [00:19:34] Speaker A: You know, these things are very touching because we don't understand as adults what we do to children. You know, Davey, I'm hearing Dawn, but parents need to do more parenting and stop allowing home parenting and social issues to transfer to school to be fixed. My wife is a teacher, and many of the issues that rear its head in school is because of really poor parenting and uncaring parents. The quality of parents in this modern era leaves much to be desired. Just the perspective of that teacher, mind you. And then I have another texter that says here to me also, davi, Emotional abuse is something people need to learn to understand. I had a friend, her stepdad raped her from the age 13 and threatened her that he would kill her mom if she talked. She even blamed herself and stayed silent. Somebody says it's wrong to. Is it wrong? Wrong. This is an important question, Dawn. Stockholm syndrome. Is it wrong to love an abusive father? That's a question. I, I don't think it should. It should be rhetorical. What are your thoughts on that? [00:20:50] Speaker D: Well, you have to remember that a child is going to see this person as, this is my father and I'm supposed to love my father. And before the abuse start, this child would have had love for their father. And that's where the Stockholm syndrome comes in, right? You, trauma banned. You want to be in the presence of this person more and more and more. So first of all, hating the person is not gonna make it any better for you because it's only going to create diseases in your body. But what we need are for more persons to get the necessary help that they need. And the texter that speaks to the. To the home. You're right. We have a parental crisis worldwide. Worldwide. And I mentioned school mostly because teachers have the ability to make a child or to break a child. Sometimes children will believe more what the teacher said and they will believe what their parents said because of the role that the teacher play. And it's not to put any more responsibilities on teachers because God knows they are already doing so much. But the fact is, a child may not speak up at home, but they may speak up at school. Right. Also, I don't know what it is in Trinidad, but the Child Protection act in Jamaica says you can report any suspected. Suspected signs of abuse. So you don't need evidence, you don't need to say this is actually happening. A teacher, a principal or something can report and say, we believe that this child is being abused, so we don't have to wait until something physical. Right. So it's the power that they come with. Devi, we have a parental crisis. Here's another thing too. There's so much single mother homes. And when a mother we were built to nurture, that's innate for us. So when you now have to be the one to go out, to go find the money, to go, you know, to take care of the children and to still come home and nurture. A lot of times, baby, a lot of things go through the crack because you're so focused on trying to ensure that there's food in the house, trying to ensure that they have a roof over, over their head. Right? And so there's so many elements that creates child abuse. So many elements. So many elements. One young lady told me one time, she said she didn't report her abuser because she knows that that's where the money was coming from for the food. So the things that goes through a child, mine, it's. It's hard. It's very hard. It's very, very hard. Yeah. [00:23:50] Speaker A: One texter is saying here, could you imagine the fear this child must go through during this heinous ordeal? Every time it happened, I feel as if it's my own child. Even though me as a child, I shudder to feel, to think about the pain. One other texter is saying the mother could be charged for failing to allow her daughter to report a rape. And there's a fine of $15,000 or imprisonment to a term of seven years. I think that's not enough. That's not enough statutory rape. Sex with a minor under the age of 18. I'm surprised that the age for consent in Jamaica is 16 years old. Why are you surprised, Dexter? That has always been right. Here in Trinidad and Tobago we have had that 16 years old. I agree with this last textile voice note. [00:24:40] Speaker C: I think we should take it one step further. [00:24:43] Speaker A: Rather than publicize them alone, we should have a website where anybody, anybody could access at any time with their names and faces. You know, Don, as we continue, you know, with our discussion this morning, I want us to talk a little bit about child trafficking. What is child trafficking? We understand human trafficking, but before we get to that question, let's take a call. Quick. Hello? Hello? Hello. Good morning, David. [00:25:12] Speaker D: Morning. [00:25:13] Speaker F: Remember yesterday we talked about the sex offenders registry? [00:25:16] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:17] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:25:17] Speaker F: Boy, Davy, you can't blame the mother. It's easy for society to blame the mother and even charge the mother. But life as it rolls out differently for everybody and this child has a father and all too. And you don't know what is the role that the father plays in the child life. If he can play a role, if he's unwilling to play the role, if he's prevented from playing the role. There's so many variables that go into these things. It's very difficult. You don't know what the economic circumstances of the mother and all too. Maybe she has no choice but to leave the child to go to work somewhere. Maybe she work in ship. Maybe this person, as abusive as they are, was the only person available to take care of the child under the circumstances. You can't just blame the mother and put all the blame on the shoulders of the mother. Because being a mother, being a single mother, which I suspect she is, is not an easy thing. It's very easy for people on the outside to look in and be judgmental. But trust me, no two cases are alike. [00:26:22] Speaker A: I've gone by David dawn, your thoughts on that? [00:26:29] Speaker D: Yes, and that was what I was saying earlier that it's so easy to point a finger until. Until you're there, until you're in the situation. Because we don't understand the impact of domestic violence and when a person is wrapped up in an abusive relationship and the threats and stuff that comes with it. David, I don't know any mother in her right mind would willingly allow a man to rape her 12 year old child over and over and over. I don't. You know what I mean? I don't know if this is a stepfather. Obviously the mother trusted him with the child. And just like the gentleman said, you hear all the elements coming up. We talk about fatherlessness we don't even understand the impact of fatherlessness because most of the time when, when another man gets to do this to a child is the fact that they don't have a relationship with their father. Because if you have a loving father, he would have been talking to you about these things and protecting you. He would be protecting you. So even the first sight of anything you could have tell your daddy because you know you have a relationship with your daddy. So we're looking at single parenting, we're looking at fatherlessness. Right. And the impact of fatherlessness. I hope that someday we can start a campaign that shows that we need fathers. I don't think men understand that we need fathers. Children need fathers. We need fathers. You know, most of the time, Most of the time when a child is abused, we've heard of those cases, that is the biological father. But for the most time it's a relative close to the child that the child would have trusted. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Hello, Good morning. [00:28:26] Speaker G: A pleasant good morning. Good morning Mr. David. [00:28:31] Speaker A: Good morning, Good morning. [00:28:33] Speaker G: I just heard lady said that no, no mother in their right mind will allow their daughter to be sexually molested. I agree that nobody in their right mind. But I want to tell you this is something I know personally. A friend of mine told me her mother used to put her to lie down and spread open her legs and tell her let the stepfather have sex with her. If I am lying, I am lying based on young ladies testimony. [00:29:11] Speaker D: Right. [00:29:11] Speaker G: I don't know how often things like those things happen but I am telling you a mother did that to her daughter. She knew that the stepfather was molesting all the children and she said nothing. That's sad. [00:29:26] Speaker A: Yeah. But let me ask you something though, okay. The caller gone. I hope when you did get that story, that is a story where this child was now an adult and sharing because if you got that story while she was still small, you had an obligation to report that to the police. So I hope that that story you got was a person giving you a testimony in their later years. Hello, Good morning. Hi present morning Mr. Davy. Good morning. Protest man. Yeah, protest man. David, you're feeling the pain. I know. [00:29:57] Speaker H: How wrong is that wrong? And don't make excuse to condole wrong. Making excuse to be excused is wrong. And we as a society, what we going to do? [00:30:16] Speaker A: I know. Thanks for Save our Women. [00:30:19] Speaker H: Save our children. [00:30:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:22] Speaker H: Save our agenda base. Stop domestic violence. [00:30:27] Speaker A: Thank you very much. [00:30:29] Speaker H: Are coming with in parliament on Friday. [00:30:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I hear that man. All right buddy. You know somebody just messaged me and said that, Davey, you never cease to amaze me. You know, you come up with some amazing topics and now you have me crying in my car in traffic going to work. I don't mean to have you crying, ma' am. I do apologize. She went on to say, I am crying. And people asking me if it's tears of joy because they don't know what I'm listening to. And I just had to shake my head and I'm in traffic right now. Thank you so much for a wonderful job. And you need to have dawn move from the afternoon to the morning to join you from time to time. All right, We. We hear that. Hello? Good morning. [00:31:13] Speaker G: Yes, Mr. Davey, good morning. I called just now. Yes. When that young lady gave me that information, she was 25. [00:31:24] Speaker A: Okay. [00:31:24] Speaker G: I. I am a social worker and I know what is required when cases like that come to me. Putting into children. [00:31:33] Speaker A: But then let me ask you something as I have you on the line. If you get a story of an alleged abuse while the person is 25, could we retroactively handle a matter like that against a perpetrator if we have evidence to support that the person. Because the person against the person would. Right. But if we can have, let's say for some weird reason, that child would have videotaped the act and kept that cell phone somewhere. I'm just asking, could we retroactively prosecute someone for something like this? As a social worker? [00:32:04] Speaker G: It could still be reported. [00:32:07] Speaker A: Okay. [00:32:07] Speaker G: It still can be. [00:32:09] Speaker A: I imagine that. Because Bill Cosby, the lock up detail after so many years. [00:32:14] Speaker G: Yes. [00:32:14] Speaker A: So. Okay. And I thank you for clearing the issue. I thank you. I thank you. Let me take this voice note. R. Kelly is a good example. R. Kelly. R. Kelly is a good example. The prosecutor tail years later Good morning, Davy. [00:32:27] Speaker E: And good morning to the guest here, Ms. Dawn Davy. I disagree with the position being adopted by you all this morning in terms of not charging the mother. And I'll tell you why. If you look at the report yearly coming out from the child protection Unit, the amount of children in this country that face abuse, it is astronomical. And unless we start charging people and putting things in, it will continue to fester. And in this instance, you see the fine in terms of where the mother could be fined for not reporting this matter. And we can adopt that approach in finding the mother because more than likely she will have to help the daughter as well. But you're letting people know that in circumstances like this, you will not get a free pass. We have to put things in place to assuage this issue as it's going to continue year after year is the same team think. [00:33:23] Speaker A: Hello, hello, good morning. All right, 625-2257 and 6273223. If you wish to get in on the conversation quickly before we depart, we still have about 15 minutes in conversation. So dawn, as we continue with our conversation this morning, when it comes to child trafficking, what is it? Why do we take children? I keep trying to get to that pointer, but. Hello, Good morning. Hello. All right. Yes. So let's get to it. [00:33:49] Speaker D: All right. So David, even before we get there, just the last caller or voice note, we're not saying don't charge the mother. I hope he understands that. [00:33:58] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:33:59] Speaker D: We're not saying don't judge the mother. We're saying look at the circumstances, you know, behind what is happening first and. [00:34:07] Speaker A: Treated case by case. Hello, good morning. [00:34:10] Speaker H: Blessing to the panel. Now this thing goes both ways. Now you have the children authority, you have police working on these things. You have homes of battered women. So they could go and report it. Now before this, they couldn't report it because the breadwinner and most of the time the woman, the mother of this nation know what's happening with the daughter and encouraging her to get a p day. Thanks a lot. [00:34:38] Speaker D: Well, well. Hello. [00:34:41] Speaker C: Hello. [00:34:42] Speaker A: Good morning. [00:34:43] Speaker H: Good morning to your guests. Good morning to you, David. Maybe we may need to consider, right, I don't have girls actually boys but at the end of the day men supposed to be very wary because you see the courts don't really give men guilt children but the men supposed to be very wary of leaving their guilt in the company of mothers who are, who may, who will not make. I mean there's a woman want to go wrong, you know, someone tackle them. So maybe the court might have to revisit this because at the end of the day situation like that, there are a lot of girls within father and then the girl children, they are left with the mother and any mother now invites to have some friend coming. And I mean these kind of, these kind of cranky men, the sick man. That was idea Sometimes we shame for being in my being a male. But the end of the day they're looking at the daughter, they're with the mother but watching the daughter one time and that is basically what happens. Maybe the court and the Ministry of Social Development needs to look at that, that instance. But sometimes, I mean it will be challenging. You know, the cases are so overwhelming, you know, my so high. It's beyond the capacity of the, the, you know, the services but the end of the day, in between, we may have to incorporate, you know, the, the NGOs like the churches and so on to assist. You know, they know what we're looking at there. Everybody talking about government, but the churches and different NGOs need to assist in there, do what they have doing their corner. And they are following along on the, on the job. They are following on the ball. Because I showed a lady, she mightn't be actively going to some institution, but she might have had some connection to some religious organization. All of us do when we are small, at least everybody will try to christen our child or baptize others, call it when they are small. So I'll listen on for your comments later. That is my suggestion here at this point in time moving forward because I don't want to hear that happen to another child again of that kind of tender. [00:36:33] Speaker A: All right, thank you. So, I mean, the topic is not one for the faint of heart. I'm sure parents are looking out or thinking about their young ones that they just dropped off to school. Dawn, you know. Hello. Good morning. [00:36:45] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:36:48] Speaker A: Hello. Your radio please. [00:36:50] Speaker D: Yes, I did. [00:36:51] Speaker A: All right. Good morning. [00:36:55] Speaker G: You know, we spoke about fathers not being fathers, but who, where go and learn to be a father. Where do you go and learn to be a mother? The parenting is a problem, but that is why I'm saying in our education system we have to teach the children now what supposed to be, otherwise we will never get over this situation. That is my comment. [00:37:25] Speaker A: Thank you very much. [00:37:29] Speaker D: Oh my God, David, this topic, man, this topic is. Yeah. You know that 49.6 million people is reported caught up in modern day slavery, which is human trafficking. And here how many of it? Children. 12 million children. 12 million children. And I know you were asking earlier, you know about child trafficking. So we know that trafficking is the exploitation of a person against their will, you know, for, you know, either sex or labor trafficking or such for it. All right, but the thing is that once a child is underage, it's a crime. Even if they consent, it's a crime. Right, but why people choose children, especially for sex trafficking is because you can get more years out of them, David. And we need to understand that trafficking in person is the second largest organized crime worldwide. And a myth about trafficking is that they have to be, they have to be exported. A person does not have to be exported. A child can be trafficked online. Persons asking for nudes, asking the child to show them themselves. Right. Also you can have a lot of the children play video games Daisy. And they play virtually with many other people all over the world. Now you have a lot of men who are perpetu, who are. Oh, God. Showing up as little children, but they're actually big grown men. And so once they befriend you, they start asking things like, you know, so do you have a phone number? You know, because now you think this is another child, right? And this is how a lot of times children fall prey to trafficking. So they don't necessarily have to be exported anywhere. They can be trafficked in their own home. Another thing too is labor trafficking. So. And families are doing this too. You might live in the country and things rough. And somebody in the city said, oh, send the child. You know, let me. Let me help you with that child. But then the child goes to live with auntie, so and so. And auntie has that child. Washing, cooking, cleaning, never going to school. Nobody sees this child. So that's labor trafficking. And just like that mother who would. The caller spoke about, who would have held her child down for the stepfather to have sex with her. That's a form of sex trafficking also. And we may not be able to stop this crime anytime soon, but we can prevent, which is why we have to raise our voices. Church leaders, community leaders, teachers, parents, everybody needs to know the prevalence of child trafficking. Because remember, you know, if you get a girl at 12 years old, you can get so much more years out of her than a woman at 50. So they are gonna grab that little girl. It is a sad. It is very sad. [00:40:51] Speaker A: It is. [00:40:52] Speaker D: But we don't understand how close it is is to home. [00:40:56] Speaker A: Good morning, Davy and Dawn. My mother had a friend and she had a child for her father. [00:41:04] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:41:06] Speaker A: Another texter is sending us a message this morning. [00:41:11] Speaker C: Good morning, Davy. Good morning to your host. And I know it take a lot for you to come out and deal with a sensitive topic like this, but if we don't do it, we won't be able to fix the problem. It exists in every day, in every community. And this is a step in the right direction. So we need to stay focused on this and not to put it or close the door on it. Have a good day. [00:41:38] Speaker A: A pleasant good morning Devi. Wonderful and interesting program as usual. Keep up this amazing work. Thank you so much for being here every day. To some parents from mother and father don't have an active place in their children's lives. And I know then that they themselves don't know how to be a parent. And due to this, in our society is having this type of Problem today. I thank you. A very, very important program you are having at the moment. Next texter here. Good morning, Davy. It had a movie with Mel Gibson, I can't remember sound of something, whatever it is with Mel Gibson, with child. What you call it. All right, child trafficking. Davey, could you ask Ms. Dawn, are there any known statistics of suicide because of these situations? I mean with the victims. [00:42:30] Speaker D: They are, yeah, I don't have the statistics with me but. And I'll get it for you, Davey, but that is one of the. That when you. One of the highest cause of suicide in children is because of abuse. So whether it's trafficking or whether it's just. I mean, abuse is abusing children so when they just can't handle it, they kill themselves. [00:42:57] Speaker A: Wow. Hello. Good morning, Debbie, Good morning. [00:43:02] Speaker B: Morning to you. Your guest still on? [00:43:03] Speaker A: Yes, she is. Great. [00:43:04] Speaker B: Good morning to you, ma' am. You know, another thing we can speak about in relation to fathers and parents and all these other things, but we can't always sort of decide who should be parents. It will happen. My thing is you had Mr. James on the program the other day and mom's really, really sorry about the situation because my children in growing up never stayed in anywhere and we didn't trust anybody. That's the first thing. I don't trust anybody as close as uncles, I don't trust. So I'm very careful with that. But to deal with it from twofold, if it's from parents on some level. David, you had Mr. James on the program and he said a lot of the things taking place in home has to start from the community level and that's the root cause. If you deal a sort of close up relationship between the state and children who may be subjected to, you know, people taking advantage of them. Yeah, I don't know how old your guess is when, when children were born long ago, the nurses came home to see the conditions under which they would have been living. All these things have to return. These are basic things. Davy and I would hope that what Mr. James suggested with the new government admittance. Admittance that they'd make laws with social people under the regional body to come and check on homes with children. No matter how good you feel, they're living, come and check on them and these things would not happen. It might be 100% foolproof, but at least we could get that into the children through the children's authority or whatever to stop situations like these. And I just want to tell parents, including you, ma' am, you cannot trust anybody with children. [00:44:48] Speaker A: No one. All right. Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts there, Dawn. I want to say thank you so much for joining me this morning. It is always a pleasure when you and I bounce on a show and we chat. We definitely have to revisit these type of conversations in the not too distant future as we bring an awareness to the child trafficking and the lewd acts committed against children sexually. Again. Have a great day on the farm. We'll be visiting you soon. Take care, Dawn. [00:45:15] Speaker B: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability the. [00:45:19] Speaker A: All new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.