Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: The all new talk radio freedom 106.5 Trinidad and Tobago. I'm expected to be joined by Captain Gary Griffith or former NTA in just a few moments.
Hopefully we'll get in here quickly.
Just had a brief conversation with him and he's expected to join me very quickly here this morning and.
Oh, here he is.
[00:00:36] Speaker A: Right.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: All right, so as we continue with our conversations this morning, we was a 6:20 start on this interview that ran a bit late.
All right, here he is. Good morning to you.
Good morning to you. Good morning to you. You have to unmute your thing.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Good morning.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Good morning to you, sir. Let me first apologize for our delayed start here very quickly on Freedom. We were going through it and we sent it. Apparently there was some kind of mix up. So, Gary, good morning to you and welcome Back to Freedom 106.5 FM. Please pardon our error this morning and forgive us for our tardiness in getting you in. However, let's squeeze in as much questions as we can and much information as we can.
We understand that at this time you would have resigned from the National Transformation Alliance, a party that you founded back in 2014, which is about 11 years ago and I mean, it's coming off the heels of 5860 thereabouts votes for you. Let's get some insight as to your resignation.
What sparked it, what conversations happened on the executive for you to make such a. Such a decision?
[00:01:46] Speaker A: Okay, sure. Good morning to you and to many listeners. Well, first thing is just, we're just over 2 years old, not 11.
The NTA were founded just, just about a few months before the local government election.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Wait, wait, I have some insight here from 2014.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: I don't know what that is about.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Was it not 2022? Sorry, wow. Where did I get 2014? It's something, something else. I was watching. My apologies. There's something else. I.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: That's fine, that's okay. So I just wanted to clarify.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: That's fine, that's fine.
It's two years.
Two years.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: And the reason for it is simply because this is. This has been the situation in Tobago politics for the last few decades. There's always been a possibility to give the country an option of a third choice. We all, the whole country for five years, wait for it. It's going to come in the next few weeks. There'll be bad talk in the UNC and bad talking to pnm and the whole country is going to say, yes, we need a third choice. We are fed up of both parties. And then when election day comes, 90% or 95% vote for the same PNM or the UNC. It happened with the ONR in 1981, it happened with the NR in 1991, of which Kamala Posad recesso was part of by the way. It happened with the Congress of the people in 2007 and now with the NTA. So everybody will back talk, everybody bad talks, the PNM and UNC that we need a choice. We fell up both parties and then on election day they go into fully mood, they forget everything they spoke about with bad talking. So 4 years, 11 months and 29 days of bad token changes on election day. And then they vote for the party and then, and then the third party because unfortunately like I think for this election they got about all the combined third parties got just less than 8% of the votes. But there's no representation in Parliament. The Congress of the people, the NAR, the ONR got about 20 odd percent and no representation because of the first past the post rather than proportional representation. So all that we did was to give the country an option, a third choice.
And what basically it is is that the country, many people may be dissatisfied with both political parties, but because of the fear or hatred of the other, they will, they will filter back to their home base. And there's nothing wrong with that. So the sons in the PNM would say, look, really I believe if I vote for you to cause the UNC to get in, people in the unc, so many of them may want to vote for a third party, but if you have a third party, it could cause the votes to split. So that's why the two parties will always be at the back end. Let's not even talk about campaign financing. When both parties had over $100 million they were able to spend. Other political parties didn't have that because they didn't have contractors who were given $100 million contracts. And then it was payback and thank you timing. So that is how it works.
I have no regrets. The nt I mean I am the only political leader in history in this country that was able to walk the length and breadth with their candidates. I had 16 candidates. I worked with them from, from Diego Martin to Arima, from point 14 to Chagonas east, everywhere we went. The good thing about that campaign, I enjoyed it, is that there was no animosity, no hatred, no bitterness. I could walk anywhere in the country and be welcomed.
Not all political leaders could say the same.
And the Good thing about it is that they all said, listen, we love Gary, we love the nta, but it's always hard to vote for you because you'll split the votes. That's how it is.
I decided as a leader, that is where I was trained. I've been a soldier, I've been a politician. I've been a police commissioner leading 20,000, 7,000 persons at times. And the right thing to do is if it is you take part in a mission and you have not been successful, the right thing to do is to step down and allow others to move forward. That is all this is. So there's no animosity or bitterness or anything like that. Some others have left with me because they came specifically because they believed in me.
That is unfortunate.
I was hoping that persons will remain, but many persons are replacing these individuals. So it's none of the NT is shutting down. It's just that Gary Griffith is taking a step back. I believe it is time, if it is, that we were not successful, that we find new blood to be able to move us forward in the future.
What the future holds for Gary Griffith, I do not know.
I think I have suffered from. I have been a victim of my own success, what I had throughout the campaign.
We want you back as commissioner. We want you back as security minister. We want you back to protect myself and my family. And I said, well, no, I'm a political leader now.
So it seems that, you know, as I said in a couple interviews yesterday, it seems that everyone said, listen, I don't want you to leave Gotham City. I just wanted to protect it.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: Well, the thing about it is, again, I must congratulate you. I think two years was not sufficient time for you to pay your political dues as history would dictate with other political entities that enter the realm. But let me ask you this question.
I am of the firm belief that you can come back as commissioner of police. Is it something that you would consider, given the fact that it's a new administration?
I don't know. It's an acting commissioner, as usual, right now on the seat. And nothing confirmed.
The confirmed commission of police is on leave pending an investigation. And if she does return, she has to retire because it's her age. Would you consider tossing your. Your name back into the ring?
[00:06:58] Speaker A: I don't think that is an option. I mean, as I said, I will always say that I will do. I will serve my country as my country sees fit. That seems to be the sales pitch that everyone would. The majority of the country wants. I mean yes it was. About 79% of the country were very satisfied with me as commissioner of police. Now it's less than 10%. But the difficulty with that is that how the process is now. When Dwayne Gibbs was selected as commissioner of police it was an international team of Penn State qualified experts who selected Dwayne Gibbs and he defeated Steven Williams and the rest of them. They were nowhere near Dwayne Gibbs standard.
When I applied the first time in 2018 they were international experts. So I got 82% and I defeated everyone then because the then police Service commissioner was appointed by the previous government. They went and rigged the whole system and said listen Gary, even though you got 82% we're going to put your foot. That is how it was. And up to this day I would still challenge Martin George, Commodore Franklin. How could you as a Police Service Commission see somebody get 82% by international experts? And you decided to still see that even though you came first. You beat Stephen Williams and Harold Phillip and everybody. Dulalchan never even applied. You decided to change and put in for it because you feel so that is the danger now. And then when I reapplied again I got 94%.
Christopher did not come in the top 20 by the international experts. The law was then changed to have the Police Service Commission do the grade in the Police Service Commission is not trained qualified in any arm of law enforcement. None. So this, this whole comedy show of the circus of Judith Jones, Maxine Atong and others, they selected electricity first. So a lady that couldn't come in the top 20 when I got the 82% she got 50 something percent. She was totally out of it.
But when you bring the locals who are unqualified in law enforcement to select someone, that is what happens. That's when you get that curry favor because 50% is interview. So it just takes two biased persons in the Police Service Commission because everybody knows everybody. Or maybe I was appointed by a president and the president takes the directives of the prime minister who selected me. And then you give Christopher 50 out of 50, give everybody 0 to 50 and that's all I get said it has to change. If it is, we go back to this. The local based persons are unfit and unqualified. The Police Service Commission they do not have the training to still elect the best commissioner. They can assess the standard of the commissioner because there's a template, there's an idiot's guide, reduction of crime financing, public creation, public trust and confidence, so forth. But to do an interview to ascertain the leadership, the style, the qualification, the operational capability and so forth for a commissioner. They don't. So if that doesn't change, the individuals will be handpicked by politicians will hand pick and select the person who the politician would recommend by selling a phone call and say, remember, the reason you were selected is because the president selected you. Because I whispered to the president to put you there. So you know what needs to be done. I want this person there. So that's what is going to cause the difficulty. That's how Ola Christopher was imposed upon us. We shouldn't be attacking Ola Christopher. She was as clueless as they come. But she was imposed on us by a, by a, by a PNM government. And the good thing about all of this, the one thing I take pleasure in, is that the PNM used me in 2020 to get into government. They said in their manifesto, we have failed. We are the worst government ever. But we gave you a Gary Griffith. I was a poster boy. I never thought I'd be a centerfold.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: And.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: And that is what caused them to get over the edge. People say, yeah, well, at least they gave us Gary when it decided to lick up Gary. Because at that time, under my watch, crime was the number four concern. People at least they felt all right. At least they have one thing right. When I was removed, everything went haywire and they paid the price. So the country should thank Fitzgerald Heinz for his incompetence, his bias, his bitterness. And they misled the country, remembered all of the lies and the accusations. After three years, nothing in good money suing them for all the lies that they made about me. I have about 15 cases with all of them.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:10:58] Speaker A: Because one thing I'm fighting for is my name. So that, that I think the commission of police. I don't think that is a possibility. Again, judging as well. Remember, the opposition abstained. The opposition now government abstained when I was commissioner and then it was opposition members of parliament who. Sorry, opposition attorneys who, who took the state to court for me not to remain as commissioner of police. So I. So I don't think that is a possibility. All right.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: So moving further afield as we get back into the realm of politics, when we look at the political landscape right now, you did mention that it's two parties. What does the nta. I mean, have you resigned completely and remove yourself from the nta or are you still part of the executive?
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Well, no, no, definitely not the executive. I have relinquished all aspects of leadership in any form or fashion of the nta. Maybe I might decide to relinquish my position as a member at this time. I'm still a member, but I'm no longer a political leader.
I'm no longer involved in any aspect of government governance or being part of the executive and the running of the nt. I do wish them the best. I am giving them advice to ensure that the whole thing does not collapse. It would not. The NT must be bigger than Gary Griffith. Anytime an organization is based on the character and the charisma of one individual, then it's not an organization.
As I said, I'm a team player and my style is I think what I was the right thing that we were not successful.
It's not about Gary Griffith. Again, when you go back to the polls, I have the 79% public trust in Gary Griffith is the highest public trust and confidence by any public servant in the history of Trinidad and Tobago. So it's not about me, it's just about.
In other words, if Barack Obama takes over the nta, they will lose their deposit. Still, that is just how it is. Kamala Posadi Sessa went up for the NAR and she lost her deposit in 1991 when she went up against the UNC. That is just how it is. So it's not about the personality, it's about the culture and that does not change. So it is unfortunate, but that is just the way it is.
But again, just as I did with Dr. Rowley when based on all his lies and misinformation to try to demonize me. And again, the reason for it is that the government at the time, they were going out of their way to put pressure on me to target political opponents. And I said, no, I'm not going to do that.
That is the way. That is the way I am. I actually cleared Kamala Posad Biseso from Emailgate. I cleared her from the plant like substance. So when people try to criticize me with Kamala Passad Mesassa, I have shown that I am not in any way a vindictive person. When I hold positions of authority, I do what is right.
I was being pressured, remember $40 million pumped into the police service to hire attorneys spec to investigate political opponents of the government.
I thought it was rather unfortunate it would go down that road. It wasn't an illegal act, but it was rather unethical.
And regardless of how much pressure I had, I was not going to have anyone arrested without proper evidence that caused me to be removed. So be it.
The end result is same. Kamala Posad Recessa decided not to work with somebody like myself, the same person who showed a degree of standard of ethics to make sure that she wasn't arrested. But so be it. That is life.
But as I said, the fact is that the NTA would continue. It should continue.
And my quick point is that the same way I offered Dr. Rowley, even though he did all this nonsense with the lies and misinformation about myself, which has not been proven, he realized three years later not one person charged, arrested or even questioned because they were all lies. You took a padded document by an individual with no data, no evidence, no witnesses, nothing at all. And that is how it is in this country. It's a banana republic. You just call an audit team. You get them, you pay them big money, you get them to type what you want and then you come and release it to the public and you smear the person's character. I fought them. Many people have been destroyed because of the pnm. Based on what I decided to start up and take them on head on. It cost me a lot. I took them to court, but I won because my character remains impeccable. And it shows that Fitzgerald Heinz was a liar for what it is he did and the things that he said about me. So the same I offered my service.
I don't need a job. I offered free advice to Dr. Rowley because it showed that EPNN was totally clueless in dealing with national security. After I left, I will always be a phone call away to assist this government to give them free advice. Certainly it is not about me wanting anything or needing anything. I drafted the Ministry of Justice, the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Home Affairs. So I do have the capacity to understand how these ministries can work, how they can be structured, the type of units. So I would be just a phone call away if needed.
[00:15:37] Speaker B: And I'm happy to hear that because that was my next question I was going to ask you. Are you still an open option if the sitting government wanted to get in touch with you? Maybe for advice. Now, let's talk a little bit about the National Security Ministry. You once held that position. Now the fact that it's now being split into Homeland Defense. Do you think that was a great idea to do? And if you have any insight on it, what does it mean for the people, the Defense part, Minister of Defense as opposed to the Minister of Home, Homeland. And I can't remember the next part of the Ministry.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. Well, it is a great idea. It's the greatest idea. Reason is because I drafted it.
So I would say it was a great idea. This happened in pre2010, right? I. When this is before, I was National Security Advisor to Kamala Prasad Be Sesso. She wanted dynamic things, she wanted out of the box thinking. So I did immense research and I drafted the Ministry of Justice for. She spoke about it on the platform prior to 2010. I showed her how it was done and how it was to be structured.
Unfortunately, deceased Minister Volney made a mess of it. He never looked at the concept of what the Ministry of Justice was about. So when you ask anyone what was the value of the Ministry of Justice for the five years under the People's Partnership? Nothing. It did nothing that was supposed to have been. You're supposed to live in the prison. That Minister, he never went. That was supposed to revamp the prison system to reduce recidivism, to improve rehabilitation, to put an end to persons being in remand longer than the maximum sentence of the charge that he had or she had. None of that he did.
So it is hoped that the new Minister would look at what was drafted that I did the research on. To benefit the Ministry of Justice is a deal specifically to fix the criminal justice system. When I drafted the splitting of the Ministry of National Security into Home affairs and Defense, there was a reason for that.
We have packaged 20,000 law enforcement officers in one ministry to deal with prisons, to deal with immigration, to deal with policing, to deal with the Defense Force, to deal with fire, to deal with ssc. It's madness. It just cannot work.
By doing that, when I made the split was to ensure that the Ministry of Defense will deal with border protection. Taking Customs out of the Ministry of Finance, which was a foolish thing by all politicians for decades. I kept stating that you put Customs there because it is a revenue total. Nonsense. The Customs is a critical arm to border protection. So I recommended Customs coming to the Ministry of Defense along with Immigration, along with the Trinidad and Tobago Defense Force, I drafted the maritime security wall. A three tiered approach from the shoreline to 2 miles out. Tier 12 miles out to 10 miles out. Tier 2, 10 miles out to 200 miles out being our exclusive economic zone with the interceptors, the vessels, the radars, the drones locking down our borders. 95% of our illegal weapons that enter our country come through the legitimate ports of entry. Which is why I recommended a Border Protection Unit. So that's the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Home affairs, it's not Homeland Security. Unfortunately, somebody gave the Prime Minister wrong information. Well, I mean, she could Call it what she wants. She's the Prime Minister. She owns it, not me. I just drafted it for her so she has full control. But Homeland Security is a US term that is used for their border protection. Homeland Security is a US term that is used to deal with terrorist activities, which means that our Ministry of Defense is Homeland Security. So it can give the concept that is that we are duplicating it. We are not. It's supposed to be known as the Ministry of Home Affairs. The reason I called it that is because it is similar to India. They have a Ministry of Home Affairs. Guyana is a Ministry of Home Affairs. The United Kingdom has a Ministry of the Home Office. We are commonwealth. So piggybacking and calling things Homeland Security. I always hear Gavin Hero call himself a homeland Security expert. Well, stop saying that because you realize how stupid it sounded because you're not part of Homeland Security. You're not part of the US System.
So the Home affairs is to deal specifically with internal security, policing, hard targeting, deterrence, law enforcement, specifically to deal with that. That is what the Minister does. So one minister deals with home affairs, law enforcement. One deals with defense, border security, one deals with the criminal justice system and the prisons. And they all now work together combined under the National Security Council, under the umbrella of the Chairman of the National Security Council, who is the Prime Minister.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Thank you very much for clearing up those issues. Coming back to the final point here, what's next for Gary Griffith? I understand during our last newscast and what we heard coming out from you yesterday was that you were willing to focus on family. Now, what's the health of your wife and what's next for you? I know you say you don't need a job, so what's next?
[00:20:12] Speaker A: You want to play golf?
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Vacation?
[00:20:14] Speaker A: I think it was rather. It was very difficult for me over the last few months to have to split myself in trying to be hold my responsibility for dealing with running a campaign and then having. Looking at the issues as it pertained to my wife. She is doing well.
We're just waiting on results to find out what's the next stage. Stage 4 brain cancer is not something you trivialize. So it was very difficult for me to try to focus on my election campaign and also this. So I said this was the best time for me to get away from the politics and to be able to be there for my family at this time. It does not take away the opportunity that. The possibility that if my country needs me, I would be prepared to be of assistance to my country. Because I really the Same way, as much as I was bitter with the pnm, I wanted the PNM to succeed because they were in government.
That is who I am as a patriot, I'll always be a soldier rather than a politician. I'll always be a patriot more than a politician, which is why I probably will feel as a politician, I will always do the right thing. If it is that people try to influence me to do the wrong thing, I will get fired, which is I've been fired many times. And the reason I could do that is because I don't need a walk.
I don't have to sell my soul to keep a job. I will do what is right for my country. My oath in office was what was important.
So. But in the same way where the whole country believes that Gary Griffith can be the one person or the main person to assist them in making their lives safer, I will always be a phone call away to support this government if and anytime needed.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Gary Griffith, I want to thank you very much and again, do apologize for our tardiness this morning. Going forward, we, whenever we get in touch with you and you are on my show, I would make sure that I reach out to you within the stipulated time frame. Thank you for understanding and do have yourself a blessed and safe day ahead. All right, take care. All right, so as we four minutes on the upswing to the hour of 7 o' clock this morning. Our newscast, the 7 is coming up in a little bit. And you heard it. He's going to focus on family, still making himself available for the country should the need arise.
The former police commissioner, Gary Griffith and the former political leader of the NTA is also there as well. And a party just over two years, you know, and now that he has removed himself from it, he has done the honorable thing as far as many people are concerned. 5860 votes for the entire thing. You know, that's not a lot compared to the overwhelming amount of votes gathered from the Patriotic Front and their first stint into general elections. Hello. Good morning.
Hello.
[00:22:38] Speaker C: Good morning, Mr. Davy.
[00:22:39] Speaker B: Good morning, sir.
[00:22:40] Speaker C: Good morning, citizens. Princess Song. Mr. Davy, even in these early days of the new government, you can see tremendous changes.
The whole thinking in terms of the vision and that new direction for Trinidad and Tobago is so evident. I want to compliment the government and the prime minister.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: All right.
[00:23:01] Speaker C: On our first news conference post cabinet yesterday, and the decisions and you can see the policy and that direction we are taking the country in. And when we talk, Mr. Davy of Ministries right now we are just in May about five months before the end of the fiscal year and all the money done in all the ministry what kind of governance is this?
[00:23:28] Speaker B: All right.
[00:23:29] Speaker C: Government told us about the better governance and good governance and everything else.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: All right.
[00:23:35] Speaker C: Yet we are at the end of April.
Well all the ministry money done.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: All done. That's it. We take a break.
[00:23:42] Speaker C: That is Mr. Mr. David that is a serious indictment on the PNM and the former government and it is a betrayal.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: All right.
[00:23:50] Speaker C: It is a hypocritical for they say one thing and they do.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: The news is coming up so thanks again for your contribution. Thank you so much. Good morning Mr. Griffith. Thank you for your service. We extend good wishes to you and your wife and all your family. All the best to you and yours. The people look forward to another invaluable contribution of our country in the future coming to from you Mr. Gary Griffin.
[00:24:14] Speaker A: All right. So the best insight instant feedback accountability the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
