Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, Instant feedback, Accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Sir Rodney Charles is in with me this morning and that interview is about to take root and I want to say good morning to you, Mr. Rodney Charles.
[00:00:20] Speaker C: Good morning. Good morning to you and good morning to your listeners.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: Good morning to you, sir.
[00:00:27] Speaker C: Morning sir.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Good to have you. Thank you so much for joining me. For the benefit of those that are unaware, you are a UNC MP for Naparima, Am I correct?
[00:00:38] Speaker C: Former mp.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Former MP for Naparima. My apologies. Former mp Since.
[00:00:43] Speaker C: Since Parliament is closed.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: It's closed, yes.
[00:00:46] Speaker C: There are no MPs right now.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: That's correct. It's only candidates. You are very correct. It's only recording in progress. It's only candidates that we have happening here now. Mr. Charles, it would be remiss of me if I didn't ask you very candidly and straightforward your reasoning for not putting yourself up for re election at this time.
[00:01:09] Speaker C: Okay.
I am at age 76 years, right? It means by the end of a five year term I would be in my 80s, early 80s.
I have done a number of things in life. I worked at Cohen Hamilton as a teacher. I went to Ministry of Education.
N.P. costa, a diplomat at the United nations and also an mp. And I felt that the time has come for a younger generation to take.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Over.
[00:01:51] Speaker C: All the things I have in life to achieve. I think I've achieved most of them. Four children. One is a doctor, the other one is an engineer in Japan. Another one's a lawyer. She's in deputy Director in Nassau, Bahamas, Deputy Director of Legal Affairs. Another son in it. So I'm into the mode of grandchildren. And in the Hindu philosophy there are four stages of life. Starting the Brahmaputra, who is the student and the householder. Then the retiree and then total the final stage, Sannyasa, which is the final stage of renunciation. You become, you renounce all the earthly properties, all the material things. So I found myself at a stage in life where I felt that the time has come to move on and to pass on to another generation. And looking at examples in the Caribbean, a number of the prime ministers are very young, including the President of Guyana, Ovanali. We have had in Singapore, Lawrence Wong, who is 52 and his predecessor handed over power to him. Predecessor was 73 years old. So I feel the time has come in Trinidad and Tobago for a generational change in the leadership so that a young generation that we have spent a lot of money educating and training some of them in the Global arena, doing wonderful things. The time has come to pull back and encourage them and hand over. And that's my philosophy. The other thing too is the last five years, ten years in opposition. You. It was a situation where you can't achieve anything. All the decisions are made by the government. You get up and you talk. You get probably coverage on news, on Radio, on page 10 in the Guardian and Express on Tuesday and nothing happens. The government, the executive controls the Parliament, they appoint the speaker, they control the agenda, they control most of the legislative agenda through except those with a 3/5 majority. And this PNM government has found creative ways of doing away with the three fifths majority. So I can sit down, enjoy a good salary, have a good time, palm the desk, make speeches, cost Rowley, Rowley cost me and. But is that how I want to spend the next five years, my life? And the answer was no.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: You know, I must once again tell you, thank you very much for what you just said.
Choosing to bow out of politics, understanding within the next five years where you're, where you would be in the grand scheme of things, age wise especially. And the fact that you have chosen to remove yourself and allow the generation that's before us now that we would have spent millions in educating, that statement holds a lot for me at this time. Now, 76, we have the opposition leader coming in, I think at 73 or 74. 73. All right, 73. Celebrated her birthday. I think it was Monday.
[00:05:07] Speaker C: Well, yes, it was yesterday.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: Yesterday. Sorry, yesterday was yesterday. Right, so it was. Yesterday was her birthday and she celebrated, no doubt with her membership and family, friends, well wishers and what have you now understanding that the former Prime Minister, Dr. Rowley, carrying an age in the 70s as well, would have chosen to bow out. What are your thoughts? You were very critical at some points, you know, speaking out against the leadership of the UNC. In one article dated back 2024, you also made statements there as well, where, you know, we lost elections. So do you think she had any capability with her style of leadership to win another, another general election? Now, before you answer that, you were also very vocal on how persons are treated when they voice their opinion, which they should be entitled to, how they are treated. And it seems as though if the narrative is not aligning with the leader, then you find yourself in a pickle where you are in the political doghouse. But, but do you think that she should have stepped aside at this time? Does she have what it takes to win another general election?
[00:06:19] Speaker C: The question is not whether she has what it takes to win a general election. In fact, she possibly could win this election next week. That is not the question. The question is 1. What principles of governance are we bequeathing to Trinidad and Tobago? And what precedents are we, we are setting up for future generations, for future prime ministers? We could adopt the position that I will die with my political boots on. That is one position that is not the position I subscribe to. My position is there comes a time in life where you, you try your best, you give it your best and the need to hand over to mentor to create a generation that would succeed. That is my position. That's a principal position. And I have reasons for coming to that position and I stand by that.
The question of staying on until we die, that has bedeviled African politics. Right? We have Museveni who is in his 90s. He's wetting down himself. He's definitely outlived his usefulness. We have had Mugabe who started off as a fighter, freedom fighter for independence of Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe. He stayed on too long. And that we had Eric Williams. So if you look at Eric Williams governance in the early stages, his governance in the latter days, I see many of the problems we have today are direct responsibility.
A direct result of the second phase of Eric Williams leadership in Trinidad. To be so many of the problems we have. For example, there's no grooming of okay, the PNM did something, yes, but I am not seeing a plan, a structured plan where you join as a, probably a counselor and you become a chairman and then you, you, you, you get enter the party and then you are sent to successive ministries. So you gain a broad spectrum of governance and then you become a party leader and then political leader. So you could see the. Let's look at Lawrence Wong in Singapore. The present Prime Minister, the former Prime Minister handed over power to him last year. The former Prime Minister was 72, that is Li Loong handed over to Lawrence. 72, handed over to 51. Wong has a BSc in Economics from the University of Wisconsin Madison. He had public admin from Harvard. He joined the party. He held about six to 10 different posts in the, in the, in the governing party in Singapore. And now he's Prime Minister. He is groomed. Who in and it's my party, the UNC who is being groomed, who has that kind of background. A Harvard trained successor who was trained and handed over leadership. Who we have and let's face it, that is the difference between Singapore and Trinidad. And may I see, may I see that when I Grew up as a University in 72 in Canada.
In fact, I in residence was in the room next to Trevor Sudama and he was a ULF or whatever at the time, pdp, I don't know. I was PNM at the time. And we had arguments day and night at Indian University. Of course, different perspectives. And one of the things, one of the things that.
Notice that when Eric Williams took over from the Colonial Masters, he had a dream team, a dream team. He had Ellis Clark, he had CLR James, he had people like Willie Demas. He had Oxford trained economist A R Robinson, his wife Pat Robinson. We had Lionel Simongal was him, yes. We had Dr. Winston Mahabir. We had the foremost off white businessman in South Trinidad, Jared Montano, who went on to create the Point Lisa estate via the San Fernando Energy Chamber. And the question is who we have today in our lineup to match that. This is after 70 years of free education.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: But you know, Rodney, just to add to what you're saying, Mr. Charles, you know, is it a stage now where the leaders, the political leaders, political luminaries that hold these high offices, they are not willing to relinquish. We have Ms. Kamala Posad Bisesa holding on for dear life. She is not giving up loss or win. She is not moving. We would have seen a precedent created by Dr. Rowley who attempted to do what you are now itemizing here this morning about grooming. So whether you say that Prime Minister Steucheung was Dr. Rowley's blue eyed boy, whatever that took place, that grooming went down, he was there, he sat next to Dr. Rowley with many deals, many conversations. Dr. Rowley trained him, if you want to call it that.
If the political style in Trinidad and Tobago is one where once I reached the high office, I am not letting go. I want this power. I'm not interested in looking at nobody. So guess what happens. We end up with you, you know, Mr. Rodney Charles in the party so long, he seems to be knowledgeable. Larry game the battle, he gone up and he put a campaign for the party leadership. Next thing you know, he wins party leadership. He's the leader of the party and then he moves on to become the prime minister. So where's the, where is the constitutional reform style that we are now looking at training persons? We are watching you. Not just one, I don't want to single out one. You pick some young ones who is in the party and you start offering them these positions, have them, as you mentioned, the Harvard and so forth and Oxford and let them go through the rhetoric and as they are going through it, you would sift out and you would find someone that you can or a couple that you hold on to when you're out of the country, a pass on the torch to them to. To act as Prime Minister for you. But when you want to hold on to the thing, you find yourself giving the battle or somebody getting the leadership. Who has been there long. The PNM was crying out for Ms. Penelope Beckles. But does she have the qualifications or is it that she. She was just there long. You understand the point.
[00:13:21] Speaker C: Well, I understand the point clearly and it hits at something that there is, given the philosophy that I am there for life. And it is very possible. Dr. Rowley left at 76. He's my age at 76.
What happens is that you discourage brilliant young minds from coming into government.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:13:45] Speaker C: Where is the Vasan? Where is the Kevin Ramner? They're hanging on.
They're almost begging for a seat at the table. Where is the Fouad can? Where is the.
I could call names. I don't want to. Right. Where are those people and why are they out? And is it a deliberate strategy to keep them out so that you remain and people ask, there's nobody to put who we go put. And this happened with Eric Williams also, so that you found. I recall I was a PNM at that time. I recall when Del Motley, brilliant, Yale, I think he went to Yale University and he was a brilliant economist. And one there was a poll which said he was more popular than the Prime Minister and guess what? He kicked out. And a slow descent out of politics. Why? It is unlike Singapore, unlike Japan, unlike Australia, unlike Canada, unlike the uk.
Why are our best and brightest running away from politics? And it means the vacuum is filled by what I call second. And I don't want to make any comment on anyone. Right. But by objective analysis, the best and the brightest are not in politics.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: In Trinidad then, as you mentioned that I want to ask you, I mean you have been with the UNC for quite a some time now.
[00:15:11] Speaker C: 30 years. 30 years.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: So let's, let's talk a little bit. We would have seen after Bastio Pandey's downfall back in 2000, I think it was 2001. We look fast forward to 2010. We would have seen at the time Ms. Kamala Passant Bisesa sat in opposition in 29, 2009. In 2010 she assumed she ascended to the office of Prime Minister under the People's partnership and she governed for five years and then started losing on the local election scenes and coming down to the general and another general. And what do you think is preventing the UNC from winning an election?
[00:15:54] Speaker C: Well, many factors because our politics is based on race and therefore you have a group of people, I think probably about 25% of the population who will vote for race regardless on both sides. And you also have a group of, I would swing voter who more educated, more diverse, mixed race.
They tend to be professionals. And one of the thing about professionals in Trinidad and Tobago is that they do not want to be part of politics. And I do not think in the past that the UNC has been able to win over that swing voter, that middle class person for all kinds of reasons. It may change this election, I don't know. But it is part of the other problem is that I have been told that people say when we look at the uncle and here we're talking about the unc. I'm not making a comparison with the pnm. Say when you look at the unc, you do not see a Minister of Finance, for example of the, of the ilk of let's say Winston Duke or A and R. Robinson. Right. We do not see a Minister of Foreign Affairs. We may see somebody, but we're not seeing a tried and trusted person capable of taking us into the 21st century dealing with the Trumpism and a chaotic global order where we have a breakdown of the, of the rules based international order. Who do we have really who could, who could navigate? I listened to Lawrence Wong of Singapore saying what Singapore will do given the chaos in the global international affairs. And here itemized six, six or seven policies tied to outcomes. If this happens, this is how we are going to operate. If the global economy, growth in the global economy is reduced by 1%. This is what Singapore is going to do. And we have plans to create the kinds of jobs and kinds of incentives to navigate that. Now I look at our both manifestos and I'm not seeing a clear cut, I'm not seeing a clear cut path to making us a first, you know, not even a forceful country to getting us out of the problems that we have. And that is part of the problem. You ask the question why people don't vote unc.
I think the swing voter has come, came to the conclusion we may change. Came to the conclusion that they're not seeing that elite team of Batsmen going into a test match. Given the problems we face and given the challenges, for example. I'll give an example.
Everybody is saying the UNC did What they did in. In. In n. In the year 2010 to 2015. Oh, yes, we gave laptops, we gave that, we gave that. We gave. So therefore there's a track record. We could do it again. It does not hold. So, price of oil at that time was 100 to $125 a barrel.
Today it is down at 65, $70 a barrel. You. You cannot do what you did into. In. In 2020, 2000 to 2015 today, even if you remain the Prime Minister, because you do not have the money. And this is my fear. My fear in this election is that you're promising 10% to workers. You're promising open the refinery. Let me just tell you, if you open a refinery, that refinery point up here requires 150,000 barrels a day just to keep running. We produce about 40,000, 45,000 barrels, means every. Every day. Every day you have to import a hundred thousand barrels of oil at, let's say, $70 a barrel. That works out to 7 million US every day just to keep the refinery running. You have to do repairs to the refinery, you have to pay staff and you have to keep the thing at a level to make it operational. Trinidad cannot afford 10 to 12 million US a day on a refinery that is going to lose money. Yet that may be a promise. I heard today, Roger saying no promises were made, but I am sure that if the UNC wins, he is going to demand that it be open and the government better prepared to have us every day, minimum, to keep that refinery going. And therefore, what is going to happen is there's going to be a euphoria. All right, we're going to do this. We're going to get 10% to workers and water and it cannot happen. It will not happen. And you will have frustration. And I went through this in 1986 when I was a manager in NP. And we now came into power with good ideas, brilliant people, decent people and whatnot, but could not deliver.
Robinson had offered 10% or 10 to 14%. They refused that. You know what happened when he now won? I had to sign a letter as a manager and all the other managers in MP saying that we will accept a 10% decrease in our salaries because there was no money in the Treasury. So therefore, the only reason why I say this is I as outsider looking in and I'm not tied to the unc, I'm not tied to the pnm. I am a. I tied to God, country, family.
And when I look at what there is going to be given six months there's going to be massive, massive lack of enthusiasm in Trinidad and Tobago in six months time. And the problem with that is we will have disillusionment with government institutions. Yes. You promised to openly remind me. Yes. You promised to give us 10%. Yes. You promised to reduce property tax. Yes. Where it is now. I voted for you. What are you doing? And I have been here, been there, done that, seen it before and I'm seeing it happening again. That is because.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Go ahead.
[00:22:26] Speaker C: We do not have an honest debate based on real figures, based on measurable targets, based on time frame deliverables. We have. I've given you this. I've given up giving out. Giving out, giving and giving up, giving and giving. And when you realize you can't give, disillusionment marches around the parliament. And that is one of the problems I foresee that there is going to. If the day, the day the army, army officers, police officers, whoever reach in and, and they go to the bank and the mountain and the salary is not there, you're going to see the kind of disruption the society. I've been there, you've been in.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: You've painted a very bleak, you know, circumstance that could be befall us in the not too distant future given the election promises. Now your background is in pr, right? As it were.
[00:23:20] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Do you think that any of the political parties have they done good and balance when it comes to public relations to change the image of the parties, the various parties very quickly on that.
[00:23:31] Speaker C: To change the image of the party, to change the image of the country, to change the image of intellectual discourse and realism. So that you need. We have to, we have to reach a stage where a voter is going to say okay, these are the challenges we face. Health care. Right. In health care, in education. Our education system is nonsense. Nonsense. I mean we talk and I could go off, we talk about prestige school and I am the principal of CIC and, and presentation.
Yeah. And we say we get a thousand passes at a level and everybody and we better than them other schools. Realistically, you get the top 10% of our students intellectually.
Do you have to judge like with. Like I have to judge a graduate of Naparima with a graduate of the best school in India, the best secondary school in Finland, the best secondary school in Japan. And I could tell you the graduate of a Japanese, because I have grandchildren going to Japanese school could speak four languages.
The top Japanese school could speak four languages. They top in math, they top in English, they could play music, they could place.
They have life saving levels. In swimming.
My grandson. Where are we feeling and Utech. I went to Naparima and I was best all around student in 1978 and I went to Canada. I can't play. I can't play when. When they have lawn tennis, I can't play tennis music. I can't play the pan, I can't play the this, I can't play the that. And. And you end up learning. Well, what am I. Yes, I could beat everybody in exam but exam is not the totality of life that I'm going to meet post secondary school. So sorry post university. So we have to rethink our education education system. We have to put our best and brightest teachers in the government schools because the best and brightest teachers are needed there.
Not in the schools where my grandchildren will go to and they have extra lessons and they study 10 questions of which five will come in the exam and they pass and they get a thing and we say hey, they must top class students. No, they cannot rank in a global village with. Because they're competing with the brightest in Singapore. I was in Finland some years ago and on the road you could stop anybody, any child. And they speak in English fluently. They could speak German, they could speak French, they could speak Finnish.
Our best and writers could match that Math international scores. They come first. I don't know where we come but we have the best education system. CIC is the best school and Naparima and Prez is the best school. And, and I went to Naps. My, my children went to prayers and, and, and. And Naparima and all that. But I have to look clinically at our education system and say we are woefully in the doldrums.
[00:26:33] Speaker B: Wow. Those starting revelations. I'm quite certain many of the callers I have persons would be willing to reach up to and chat with you. Moving up slowly to the news. Are you willing to stay with me in the next hour as well? Maybe take a couple calls?
[00:26:48] Speaker C: I. I'm willing.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: All right.
[00:26:50] Speaker C: So I just want to establish a lot of people come critical why you didn't do it to the unc. I passed that stage. Right. I. I'm not here to prove to anybody.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: Well then I like, I like the way, I like the way you mentioned that. I love the way you mentioned that. So I mean let's clear the air very, very quickly on that.
You have been there roughly. You said 30 years, right?
[00:27:12] Speaker C: 30 years. And before that about 20 years in the PNM.
[00:27:15] Speaker B: In the PNM, right. So you've been senior levels in the PM, you would have seen you. You operated like you was like a Ralph Mirage. You swing on two sides. You. You see what was going on. So let me ask you a question. You know, let's clear the air. As you mentioned the question. People want to say why I didn't do it and why I didn't do it. Let's get that out very quickly.
What was the parameters in which you were functioning, especially in the unc. And so you can't do it.
[00:27:37] Speaker C: You can't do it. It's leader centric. When you get an instruction, the boss say, the leaders say you must do that and that you must write a letter praising her and say, I mean, no. Why I understand my friends who are doing it. No, because I did it. I had a mortgage to pay to read in university and in school to get the salary and whatnot. But I'm free now. I don't have. I'm not. So I could, I could. I could. If you send me a letter and say, sign a blank letter and I do not know. I'm not doing it now. I'm not doing it now. So therefore that is the problem.
And it happens on both sides. I suspect if it happens in unc, it happens in the PNM side. You get an instruction. This is how you will vote. And you told us at the point when voting starts in Parliament, voting starts now. When you look around and you see somebody dominant and says abstain and okay, Oliver, let's abstain.
That is the reality. You have no. As an ordinary mp, you have no. And look who have been selected. Look who look at it with all the people who are likely to be. To have an independent voice. They're not in safe seats.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: Check, check that all the people and.
[00:28:49] Speaker C: All the fellas who would say yes, jump high, jump low. All of them in safe seats.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: But should a safe seat be ever at all be considered, we should both parties should never have what we know as safe seats. All seats should be as scary as hell. All seats should be in a position where I hope I am fighting tooth and nail to win it. I shouldn't be smoothly, comfortably running through saying, well, I living in. In. In. In. In. In room X and I live in. In. In. In valley Y. And if I hear in valley Y, you give me a valley. Well, I know I could. I could. I can even show up on the campaign trail and I sure we win in that. That is a bad precedence, you know.
[00:29:31] Speaker C: And I know it don't work. So right. There are seats in Naparima. Naparima, for example, I would win by 14,000 votes. The PNM would get 3,000 votes, right. And I. I could tell you if the PNM were to give a million dollars to every household, each household in Aparima, they would still not pass the threshold of 5. And that is. And it's probably the same thing would happen probably in Digomart in West.
[00:29:58] Speaker B: Very, very, very, very startling revelations. And I want to thank you. I'm always of the opinion that persons can't do. I always say that young MPs and ministers coming into political parties. They come in there bright eyed and bushy tailed and they want to do well. But then they meet these tall wards. They meet them who there and telling you hey, hold your brakes, hold your brakes. You see what you want.
[00:30:18] Speaker C: Your bricks you're starring too high.
Will look good with the leader. Shut your mouth.
And then here, here the last problem. You, you, you are you are told by your constituent we want roads fixed. We want this fixed. But I have to go and beg Rohan Singhan to fix the landslip for me. And, and the same party wants me to criticize him next week. You know what I'm saying? Because he's not performing. So he would say well Charles, I fixed three land slips for you. I get a child transferred from one school to another school. I got the whatever and now you're criticizing me. So you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you're opposition politician mp, all right, you have to take instructions. Else the day you ask a question and you ask how do you dissident and you're pushed to a corner. Those are the facts.
[00:31:08] Speaker B: We're going to talk in the next hour. I am so sorry. I find a jumping into the sentences as well and you know, but I watched my time we're counting down so I'm heading to the news. Stay with us. You can probably mute a little bit if you wish, but stay with us. We're coming back to you after the news and we'll allow callers as well. We ask that you be respectful, keep your contributions and your questions a minimum of two minutes or less. You would have heard his. His preambles about what could have been done. So trying to ask him. Don't waste your time to ask him why he didn't do it. He explained why. We'll be back with more stick and stay.
Mr. Rodney, Charles is in with us this morning. Mr. Rodney, again, good morning to you and welcome back.
[00:31:45] Speaker C: Good morning. Good morning.
[00:31:47] Speaker B: All right, so we would pick up where we left off in our conversation as we were talking and having dialogue as to what happens, why certain things cannot happen within political parties. You explained a lot. When it comes down to the narrative being spewed out by the leader and how it happens now, just as how you mentioned a few moments ago, for those of you listening where, you know, you hire children to send to school, you hire your mortgage to pay, you have different things to do, you didn't have a choice. And I guess most MPs are in the same predicament where they can't look at this job, look at the situation, the circumstances that they're in on their political career as here to serve the people. They are forced into a position where I just have to see this as a job. So as you mentioned, because if I'm here, being in politics is servitude to the people you're here to serve. You want to help, you want to give back, but you are forced to look at the situation and circumstances politically, as you know what, I'm here now. I can't do what I need, what I want to do. So if I do that, I go end up jobless. So I had to sit as a job now and just work, just do the job as required.
[00:32:58] Speaker C: And the problem with that is in Trinidad, once you are politician, an ex politician, there's no, there's no job. Nobody wants you. If you're in opposition and you go to a private firm, they will say, you know what? If I am bidding for a contract with the pnm, if your name comes up, you're going to be, we're going to be blacklisted. So therefore you are. You have to hold on to this job because once you commit politically, that is the end. And that is the problem with our political leaders. There's no job after being prime minister. No job. You know, chambers run away from the population. Right. And not only prime minister and governors. Our first Governor General, Solomon Ochoi, he isolated himself in Blanche shares. I have been in situations where people avoid you. They will tell you. And it has happened, that has happened with some of my colleagues who are now in the, in the unc. They would say, charles, you know, we're friends, we go way back when, but we can't be seen together. You know, if a picture is taken with you and I, my chances would be zero.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:34:09] Speaker C: So therefore you understand, we understand you've been in this game. This is how the game goes. They invited up a wedding when you are mp, and then they will Call you afterwards and say, you know, mp, you know the new MP is we invite him and it could be awkward for you so you know it will be better if you, you know, don't come. It's as bad as that.
It is. People are not talking. But once you sign into the M to that MP political party, you are in Trinidad, you're tanked, you're labeled and you're and and is a limiting factor on your career development outside of politics. So you have to stay inside.
[00:34:52] Speaker B: Is there a.
[00:34:52] Speaker C: That is why there are some people will kill if you interfere with their prospects within the constituency. They will kill you. Not kill.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: I know what you mean. I know what you mean. They will. They will. What I want to ask is it that you all sign or persons sign a secrecy NDA when you're getting there, that you sign this non disclosure agreement. Is there something, is there a conversation happening where you are warned and you are told as to how to tow the line? Does this conversation happen?
[00:35:24] Speaker C: There's no non disclosure agreement, but there are many ways of letting you know what, what is expected of you. There's a formal way. The chief will right. In England there's a three line whip which means you must toe the line and vote else you'll be expelled. There's a two line whip which means yeah, you could. And there's a one line you could be absent if you wish and whatnot. We don't have that in Trinidad. They are whispers and if you criticize too much, you have to learn how to criticize. You have to say, well, isn't there not another way of looking at it?
And if you do too much of that, you get ostracized and you get accused of being a dissenter, you know, dissident. A dissident and you are otherwise there are committees, you're not put. I was on one committee alone, Foreign affairs, although as a shadow for national security. I was not put on the joint select committees. So in government the power is greater because they could appoint you a minister, a parliamentary secretary, they could appoint your family on the board.
There are things they could do as inducements. That opposition leader only has six senators and she has to dance and maneuver that because there are only six and there are plenty aspirants in the party. There is what there is. Well, the threat of not being put up as a, as a, as a candidate. And this is why when the leader made the statement that she was opening up things for to select candidates, at that point I said, I'm not going back Because I knew what the game was. If you, if you, if you misbehave, if you talk freely, you will not be selected. And so I've been the case with all the five, well, all the four. I am not going back. I done with that before and I, I, I, I, I knew they were not going to be selected. So coming up and you know why? There's a lesson in that. You have to teach all these young boys who just got selected. It you see what happens if you don't to the line. If you don't to the line that is your and one, one of my colleagues said it, you will be condemned to the political cemetery because they feel in their minds that a safe seat is the, is the end power of everything.
I, I, once you get in it, you realize that that is a powerless charade that are MP in opposition, you have no money, no budget. You can, you could only talk in Parliament and you have to be told when to talk. You will speak for fifth if you answer. If you, if you misbehave, you do not speak. You know many times how many of the dissident prepare to speak and we're not people need to write a book. They need to write a book about how this thing operates. So my young friends, professors in uwe tenant profile get into politics and see you crazy bill your name first and you enter politics on your terms. Do not, do not enter politics on their terms. Because, and that is why I think they select not the most successful people in the world to be MP'd on both sides. They do not select because once you are independent like A and R. Robinson at the time, like, like Winston Mohave. Who Silvertone, like Montano. These are independent people with money and they will not put up with nonsense. When you take a little boy, just start off as a professional. You got a degree and basically he's just a doctor. He's a dentist. He's aware of whatever. He just started off in business and you get him trapped into the big car syndrome. But when you join I had a around for men say Charles, you can't. But I knew, I've been there, done that. I have nobody to impress. So I have my little RAV4. But when I line up in the beginning, God. Mercedes Benz RAV4, Range Rover. When they get you in that kind of truck where you gotta pay, you gotta pay 500,000, you get 400,000 off the guys. A million. You get 400,000, you pay 500,000 and your salary is. It was at that time, 17,000amonth and they take off 3000 in tax and they take off 1000 part 1700 party dues, UNC party dues and 1000 for something and they give you 5000 traveling hours. You're taking home 16, 17,000. You cannot afford that car. So imagine you are young, professional, honorable, whatever and member for so and so free bus pass and priority bus pass and things like that. And your salary tied up paying for this car. You had to hold on to this job for life because the lifestyle they encourage you to. Now what I noticed was they finally as everybody had small car like me, he couldn't realize this thing. But I worked with Cutbar Joseph and God was told me, Sir Charles, if ever you get into politics, never get wrapped up into cliques one never get wrapped up into living beyond your means. Because that is the trap to ensure wholesale obedience to the will of the leadership.
[00:40:50] Speaker B: I said that on my program when I started doing the morning Rumble, even on the afternoon show I conducted right here on Freedom. I know of one particular MP or minister rather that I wouldn't call his name. But under the Patrick Manning administration when that snap election was called, two years and four months into the tenure and they lost, that particular minister could not honestly sustain the car, the vehicle. He could not. And certain things that he was hoping for the five year stint to last so that he could have paid the bills and get things done. He was forced to get rid of drivers, employees, forced to sell, yet to sell it, he had to push it off. He could not sustain it. And before repossession was coming, I was shocked. Repossession was on the doorstep. On the doorstep to repossess this.
[00:41:54] Speaker C: I had that experience as start.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:41:57] Speaker C: When I was policy advisor to Emmanuel Gonzalez, a PNM minister who got caught and maybe the same minister, we're not calling it. And he said he had no money, right. Because he was open for the extension the three years. So when Manning called the election, he was hoping to pay off and clear the debt. And he got caught and he was begging us for a job.
[00:42:21] Speaker B: I feel we talking about the same person, but we ain't calling no name. But I feel we talking about the same. No names, but I know of that situation firsthand, you know. And the thing about it is what I came the consensus I drew from that when I became a talk show host, because I came from urban radio and I moved over to this, I realized and I recognize at that moment that these people are in a position where they want to make a change. But are Forced not to talk or say things because your job, it's no longer your servitude, it's your job now on the line.
[00:43:01] Speaker C: You're living your livelihood.
[00:43:03] Speaker B: Your livelihood.
[00:43:04] Speaker C: And, and it, it is the difference between somebody coming to repossess your car.
[00:43:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:09] Speaker C: You know, and the embarrassment that that will, you know.
[00:43:12] Speaker B: As a matter of fact, this person I'm talking about had a legal profession before getting in and I have heard nothing of them on that are in, in their profession after. So I don't even know if there.
[00:43:25] Speaker C: Any countries then we're talking about different persons. Well, talking about different persons, when I.
[00:43:30] Speaker B: Say not legal but meaning their profession. Their profession. I haven't heard from them after. And this is as I said, maybe Mr. Charles, you and I could talk after. But we call no names. But I, I feel these entities, they, they do suffer. And as I said before, they were forced to get rid of the cars. They were forced.
[00:43:48] Speaker C: Have you noticed that of the five dissenters?
I might. I'm not going back. I clear my life. Very good. Anita, she is well, I know that she has alternatives to a good life. Parry employs 300 persons. Ranbir is a successful doctor in Sherwood and Ramble is a successful lawyer. These are people who could afford to say, well you know, we would like the party because the UNC is really a good party.
The founding principles by Pandey was about equality and justice. He came out of the trade union movement and you notice things like the equal opportunity legislation, freedom of information, dollar for dollar, building the schools and whatnot with oil prices. 1720 dollars a barrel tells you about the fundamental principles of the unc. Now what it is, I will tell you a lot of the present MPs, no names called, were in the forefront of encouraging people that we had a change, we have to have internal change. And lo and behold when things start to unravel, you on your own. So I learned in the politics in Trinidad and to young people who want to enter politics, make sure that you have an independent profession. Make sure that you have the capacity, if things are not working out, to have a fallback plan plan B. Because if you go in into that starry eyed and expecting you'll change the world and thinking they will listen to you, you are in for a monumental disappointment. And I'm saying I could, I, I, our former MP should be writing books so that younger people would be forewarned. I was lucky to have cut by Joseph who told me, charles, never get into that nonsense. So I went in there and I knew that I was not going to get tying up with no Range Rover and no Mercedes Benz costing $3 million. And after every time I had a full that tank is $800 with premium gasoline. I know that that was not for me.
[00:45:57] Speaker B: All right, Mr. Charles, it would be remiss of me if I don't ask you this question. I mean you did serving in the UNC for a number of years, 30 at that. Which would have started somewhere with Bas de Obande coming down. How do you feel now? How do you feel to see the party with a founding leader such as astute as Basdiyo Pandey was in his political career to see that the now leader of the UNC has washed the UNC free of the Pandeys. And you know she talked about that. How do you feel to see that the Michaela Pande the daughter because the PNM didn't get rid of Brian Manning? Brian is there. He's not a minister but he's a minister in the ministry of. But he there. And how do you feel to see that Mikhail has been ostracized and she is not allowed period to be no way close to the party that her father would have founded. Are you would have been there.
[00:46:47] Speaker C: You really want that answer?
[00:46:49] Speaker B: I want you to tell me. But I want it. I want really what that answer.
[00:46:52] Speaker C: I look on this as a phase the growth and development in a party. And you have ebbs and flows. And I've learned in life and when I was in Mausika Teachers College used to tell you even this too shall pass away that much as we think that this defines the unc. This too and if I I wouldn't be alive. You will be alive within 10 years, 15 years time. The UNC may could short in the normal progression of influx of time. In the fullness of time the UNC will regain its glory. It will. It will be the party of the. Of the. Of the poor. It will be the party of the oppressed. It will be the party that stand up, stands up for justice. It will be the party of brilliant young minds standing up when. When let's face it who the children of the sugar workers are they. They win all the scholarships. If you go in the hospital right now, 90% of the doctors children are the sugar workers, lawyers, etc. Etc. We know the story. You see the list every year. Where are they in the party? Where is the legal luminary to take us out of this energy crisis in the unc? Who is the who could match what his name? Lawrence Wong of Singapore BSE MSc First Class Honors Economics, Wisconsin Public Administration Harvard. Who could match that when they sit at a table who could sit at a table with say Marco Rubio and you know we went to school together. You know we were seatbelt. So therefore you have a rapport with him over and beyond the politics. He must throw Trump line but at the same we have nobody. All right, my question is when you ask me about where the UNC is now and where it could be I hope to I live to the vision. I live to what it was and what it could be. I'll tell you when I joined the UNC it was Pandey who called me and I was the marketing manager in NP and Carolyn Cpassad was the chairman and I got a call the boss wants you to cherry party to be the campaign manager. He said Lord look, look at trouble. But you know in a state enterprise when the boss say the prime minister says you dare not. So I, I, I, I, I try to hide vaccinate and whatnot. I got a call and say the boss is asking when are you and he wants a reply by Friday. So I ended up in the party as president of the public relations association at the time and thing we and we won the election in 2000. Yes with James Carver. We won the election with Basal Carriman myself. So I ended up in the politics. I couldn't explain this to people. I had no choice.
[00:49:40] Speaker B: Noted.
[00:49:41] Speaker C: So then get a directive from the prime minister and you work into the state enterprise as a manager. They will say loss of confidence in you and you will get fired. So I made decisions in life. It was the best decision. I'll give you a little joke. I met Pandey at a function later on And I say Mr. And I was coming up as our BCSA UNC and I said Mr. Pandey I had to acknowledge him. Mr. Pandey I have to commend you for bringing me into politics and you know the whole crowd there. And Mr. Pandey said and that's the worst mistake I've made in my entire life by bringing you into politics. All right. Hello.
[00:50:18] Speaker B: And with that being said I want to ask you very clear I'm going to take some phone calls coming up. So all those calling the lines are lighting up. We're going to take a few field a few calls from you all in a minute.
We talked so much this morning about the leaders and you had to toe the line. Is it possible that one can derive that maybe, just maybe the finances of these political Entities that the leaders have to answer to them. So by extension, when the finances crack the whip and they pull the strings of you, the Prime Minister, is it that you have to now make sure that you get all your ducks in a row? Could it be said that is that a possibility? Is that a thought at all?
[00:51:06] Speaker C: It's not a possibility, it's a fact. They run the show. No, I mean let's not. You see decisions being made on both sides. And he asks himself the question what. That has no logic in it. Where does that come from? But if, and you see campaign finance reform, the hypocrisy Trinidad will not move ahead unless we have campaign finance reform. Unless we have parliament as a co equal branch of government where the parliament could get the executive to answer questions. Right now the major committees will not be public Accounts and Enterprises committee, but major committees are chaired by PNM people and they determine the agenda. So. And they have the majority. So they could all vote you. So you were in there just talking. Unless we have empower our MPs to hold the executive accountable. Unless the speaker is selected by three first majority of the Parliament. So she is a treaty of the Parliament and not appointed by the Executive.
Right now the speaker of the House is appointed by the executive and we want her to be impartial and balanced. And it can't happen, cannot happen. So we have a lot of stupidness that we inherited from the colonial masters that if we don't clinically deal with them, we will be in trouble. And you raise the point campaign finance reform is key to that. Do you think I am telling you that they that and I have no evidence to prove this, but I see big men walk in, big men walk out and you see decisions being made. I want that candidate. I am in wherever. I'm prepared to give you $10 million. And you know all I want is this man in. And you know the problem that they put their men in there to facilitate them. And it's happening now that there are people, if they become Minister of X, I know who the financier backing them are. I know what will happen. And, and from where I pull back from the politics now, either side. I'm saying unless we have a group of people forcing this country, forcing this country to be, to be, to be operate on forceful, transparent principles. We do just give one little. In Singapore, a minister is given three salaries. 1 salary basic performance, 3 options for salary basic performance. If I'm Minister of National Security, I get say 80,000amonth.
If I reduce the murder Rate targets reduce the murder rate by 20% in one year I get a bonus of 10,000, 90,000. If I reduce it to 50%, I get 100,000 minister.
So that a minister has to perform it. I know, I think. And the Prime Minister say I satisfied with this person. And you have somebody operating Minister of National Security for years and years and years and years and years. Primarily because the Prime Minister on both sides don't want to take the job because they don't want to be tagged with murder rates and all. So they put somebody inside and back him because your br to take the links because you cancel. So therefore I'm saying unless we go to Singapore where our ministers and on performance targets and then health in education in whatever, we are doomed.
[00:54:37] Speaker B: Is it. Can it be said or is it. Does it work like this where. Because we have right now the Prime Minister holding down the job as Minister of Energy as well. Right. That's two portfolios. We would have had Patrick Manning doing the same and others. Right. Is it that they collect both salaries?
[00:54:56] Speaker C: No, no, they don't. They don't. And let me just clear. The opposition leader does not get a Prime Minister's pension and also opposition leader salary. She gets the highest of two and two checks. One check for opposition leader from the Parliament and another check from the Pensions Department Ministry of France to make up the difference. Right. Total will be. The pension will be the highest. Whether the Prime Minister's pension is higher than the.
[00:55:25] Speaker B: Than the opposition. Okay, so the opposition is 20,000, but the prime minister's pension is 30. They will just add 10 to it and give her that.
[00:55:34] Speaker C: Yes, that is my understanding from the finance technocrats.
[00:55:40] Speaker B: The finance technocrats in the Parliament. So because there was talks that Prime Minister Stewart Young is receiving a. Excuse me. A Prime Minister's salary in addition to his job in the Ministry of Energy and Energy Industries. That he's also.
[00:55:54] Speaker C: That's not correct. That's not correct. As far as I understand it.
[00:55:59] Speaker B: Okay, beautiful. So that. That based on what the. The finances and the tech or the financial technocrats in Parliament would have stated. Rodney Charles have just cleared the air on those things. It's one salary. So all that work I taken on for one salary. I had to be real confident. We take a quick commercial break. When we come back, your calls. We invite in your calls. Let's get those ads out so that we can have a free smooth transition going in to the top of the hour. Stay with us.
[00:56:26] Speaker C: For generations we've been serving you, giving.
[00:56:30] Speaker B: You the best for less that's what we, we do.
Friendly faces, fresh foods on every aisle.
[00:56:37] Speaker C: At JTA supermarkets. You are sure to smile. The best life. We each day come to jta.
[00:56:45] Speaker B: Feel like I'm here at jta.
When you're at jta, it's all a jta.
[00:57:00] Speaker C: JTA Supermarkets. Your total bill always costs less at jta. The following is a paid political announcement.
[00:57:07] Speaker B: This is the voice of the pnm.
[00:57:10] Speaker D: We respect senior citizens in the pnm. We respect that senior citizens have contributed to Trinidad and Tobago. I pledge to you as the Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago with my colleagues and our PNM government. We are not going to shift the goal post. Do not let them terrorize. Summarize you with that. I stand here in full public tonight and give that commitment as the Prime Minister. We are not touching the senior citizens pensions. But let me tell you what we're going to do. After very, very careful consideration, having the Minister of Finance run the numbers, giving it very careful consideration, as a responsible PNM government, I am pleased to announce that all public service pensions, all retired public servants who receive a public service pension will now receive that tax free. No more tax on public service pension.
[00:58:11] Speaker B: This is a new chapter for TNT. We're read, ready and responsible.
[00:58:16] Speaker C: On April 28th, vote PNM. Great is the PNM.
[00:58:21] Speaker B: That was a paid political announcement. That was a paid political announcement.
[00:58:25] Speaker A: This April, Freedom 106.5 FM presents Voices for the Silent, a campaign dedicated to raising awareness and standing up against child abuse.
Too many children suffer in silence. It's time to change that. We're here to arm you with the tools, knowledge and resources you need to identify, prevent and respond to child abuse. Join us as we amplify the voices of survivors and take actionable steps to support at risk children. Together we can break the silence and be the change they need. Let's be the voice for those who cannot speak. Together we can make a difference. Stand up, speak out, take action. Supported by the Children's Authority of Trinidad and Tobago, who will win the April 28 general election?
[00:59:13] Speaker C: Who is the preferred leader for TNT? How will the marginals swing? Who will take Tobago? Which political party is most popular with voters?
[00:59:24] Speaker B: Be sure to grab a copy of your TNT Guardian newspaper. Watch on CNC 3 News. Follow us on digital and tune in to the TBC Radio Network for details of the soon to be released Guardian Media public opinion poll conducted by respected pollster and political scientist Professor Hamid Ghani. The TNT Guardian, CNC3 and the TBC Radio Network. Your election headquarters supporters for the 2025 general election poll results starting Sunday, April 20th.
[00:59:55] Speaker A: In a time of promises and politics, only one thing truly matters. Your voice. Your freedom. As Trinidad and Tobago heads to the polls, Freedom 106.5 FM brings you the clearest conversations, the toughest questions and real issues affecting your vote. No spin, no fluff, just fearless talk radio, live analysis and unfiltered voices from every corner of the nation. Stream us live at www.freedom1065.com and follow the discussion on our social media pages at Freedom 106.5 FM. Your voice, you Freedom. Only on Freedom 106.5 FM.
[01:00:33] Speaker C: The following is a paid political announcement.
[01:00:36] Speaker B: It's election time, serious time. All you big and all you have sense. You have to ask Kamala how you.
[01:00:45] Speaker C: To sleep at night.
[01:00:46] Speaker B: You hear what Jack Warner say about you.
[01:00:49] Speaker E: That was wholly and totally Mrs. Posaddy.
[01:00:51] Speaker B: Says the man talking about section 34.
[01:00:54] Speaker E: This matter has been up for doing. These guys came to home and came for money.
[01:00:59] Speaker B: I was there. He really say that?
[01:01:01] Speaker C: Nah man, let me be real.
[01:01:03] Speaker B: Kamala how you to sleep at night when she looks in front she sees Anil Roberts of life, sport and loves fame. When you're lying in a unc bed, I sure you can't sleep. You never know the backstabbers.
[01:01:22] Speaker C: That is a recipe for disaster.
[01:01:26] Speaker B: We only have one choice this election. Be red, be ready and we responsible ready to win. Ready to be an answer. Sleeping time. Of course this is a paid political announcement. But is the truth.
[01:01:39] Speaker C: Duh.
[01:01:43] Speaker B: That was a paid political announcement.
[01:01:45] Speaker A: Shake up your morning with the morning rumble on Talk Radio Freedom 106.5 Engage with Davey on the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
[01:02:08] Speaker B: Once again, good morning Trinidad and Tobago. Davey Murray is my name. Welcome back to Freedom. We are just slowly making our way up to the hour. We are 22 minutes away from the hour of 9:00. Tusca Martinez is set to grace us at 9 this morning inside the Human Impact as Freedom continues on the road to informing you, entertaining you and educating you all the same. We invite your calls now at 625-2257 and 6273223. We are chatting with former MP for Napa, Rima Rodney Charles. Hello. Good morning.
Hello. Good morning.
Yes, good morning to you.
[01:02:45] Speaker F: Hello and good morning.
[01:02:46] Speaker B: Good morning.
[01:02:47] Speaker F: Calling from D.B.
[01:02:49] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:02:49] Speaker F: So Mr. Charles, good morning to you. Knowing that morning politics so long sir. And the constitution did not change. You just all said it that you the speaker of the House is not voted upon. It was anointed. The PNM just now. Anointed Stuart Young. And I will say, my friend, at this stage, right, you should take a neutral approach. No campaign and be respectful of your comments on whatever you're saying. Because Watchman, we are better. Trinidad and Tobago crime is number one in this country. Listen to what the commissioner had to say at the 8:00 hour of news. Before we campaign for any party or any situation, we should stand up for truth at this stage. Have a good day.
[01:03:30] Speaker B: I don't think that caller was listening to the program all morning.
[01:03:33] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't understand. I'm not campaigning.
[01:03:36] Speaker B: Nobody. Nobody is campaigning. Nobody is campaigning kind of.
[01:03:40] Speaker C: Is it between you and me, there's a kind of nonsense you have to put up with in Tobago. I'm glad I'm not a politician so I could tell somebody where to get well, I don't have to be polite because I'm an MP and it doesn't look good. So those kinds of comments, I just.
[01:03:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that is a.
So we're not campaigning for any party. We. We were speaking some truth, some revelations are happening so clearly not paying attention. Good. Good morning.
Yes, Good morning.
[01:04:08] Speaker C: Morning.
Mr. Charles, you're honorable man, you're a decent man, you're a nice person, but you just don't get it. A man of experience such as our rep.
You just don't get it. Either you stay in the party and toe the line or you get the hell out.
[01:04:31] Speaker B: No, Mr. Charles has made it very clear you're going to offend some of these UNC callers. No doubt.
[01:04:41] Speaker C: It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter.
[01:04:43] Speaker B: He has made it very clear.
[01:04:44] Speaker C: So don't bother explaining. Explain anything to me. I am 76 years old. I have lived my life and I have to answer to the Lord above nobody else. I don't have to answer to Mr. Stewart Young. I don't have to answer to Mr.
No. Any of the. Whoever.
[01:05:00] Speaker B: Whoever is there.
[01:05:02] Speaker C: That's their view. And they're entitled.
[01:05:03] Speaker B: And you're entitled. That's democracy. You're entitled to your view.
[01:05:06] Speaker C: Hello.
[01:05:06] Speaker B: Good morning.
[01:05:08] Speaker E: Good morning, Davy.
[01:05:09] Speaker B: Good morning at last.
[01:05:11] Speaker E: Well, Davy, I want to. I want to welcome Mr. Charles to your show. Actually, I met Mr. Charles about 10 years ago. Garth Christopher, the UNC activist, had me on his program and I was prosecuted. The idea of a Keith rowdy government in 2015. Mr. Charles apparently didn't like it. He stopped what he was doing and he arrived in the studio with me. But anyways that was then. You know, Mr. Charles, there are a couple things I want to ask you. I admire the time when you broke with your party when somebody said that the coast guard murdered children on the high seas and you said that you didn't agree with that. But Mr. Charles, you know that all of the problems that exist in this country can be fixed by the parliamentarians in this country. This is why we vote for parliamentarians every five years.
And in the village in which I grew up as a little boy, I always heard the elder saying that a half a loaf is better than none. So if the PNM brought the legislation to the parliament and he wasn't getting everything that he wanted, but it took the country to a better place, why the UNC did not support it. We have a collapse service in this country, police service, because the UNC does not do legislatively what is to be done. I recall when Ramdani escaped and Mr. Mallon came to us and general counseling, he said, listen, I want your permission to go and have a chat with Mr. Pandey. I said, Mr. Pandey, the reason why all these policemen are doing all of this is because we as legislators not doing what we should. And that is how the committee of Ellis, Clark and Davis came into being to draft new rules for the police service. But that aside, the fact is that the legislators in the country have the power to change things. And if you're not getting everything you want when you get into office, then maybe you could add more. But don't leave the country hanging.
[01:07:06] Speaker B: Eric, you have a question.
[01:07:07] Speaker E: The question I want to ask you is this, Mr. Chance, in relation to the present situation where we have a situation that the economy. We know where the economy is and all of the nice things being offered by the unc, which I call a Nigerian letter campaign, how is it that people cannot speak to the question of the sustenance of that? I know I want to go outside of the box.
There's this story about you and I know that you're a very intelligent individual. You know, there's a theory that if you go right, you could end up left because the rule is wrong. And there's a story about you and Jean Marie Le Pen's daughter, who was an official method the UN and all of that. Now you knew who Jean Marie Le Pen was. He was so far right that if he turned around, he'd probably see Stalin, Khrushchev and all the others in there because you are so far right. And they said that you met with her and that Was a no no as far as democracy is concerned. So those three things I want you to muse on. And I'm listening. Thank you.
[01:08:14] Speaker C: All right, all right. The last words. Mary Le Pen, she was a member of the Parliament, the European Parliament. She was a lady likely she's element in Europe which in my estimate was going to have a say in the next 15, 20 years. My job was to sit and listen to her, question her, find out what was the thinking behind her criticisms against Islam, immigrants and whatnot. I did it in company with 20 minutes, 20 MPs, including Mario Gonzalez, the son of Ralph Gonzalez, who is now the Minister of Finance in St. Vincent. He sat next to me. So it was a question of an intellectual inquiry. If Stalin were to come to me, I would like this question, Stalin, what are your views, why and whatnot? The difference is do I, do I do not agree with Necessarily or necessarily do I support? The question is, as an ambassador, your job is to feel out, find out and send briefs to your home country saying this lady is dangerous. This lady is likely to be a president and we better keep tabs on her. What I criticized Dr. Rowley was he criticized her now as a prime minister, you can't criticize somebody who's likely to be a president because you'll have to deal with. And the same problem with Maduro. If the UNC gets into power, when you pick up the phone and call Caracas on the 29th is Maduro Anze. And you have to think about that as if you're thinking long term. So that deals with that. And I would meet her again because I understand she's now debarred from being a presidential candidate for the right wing party in the France. The second thing is that parliament can. Parliamentarians can change Trinidad Parliamentarians. That is a myth that needs clarification. The Europeans came to Trinidad, the English people, they tried for 200 years with the mass of the only power behind their attempt to make us Englishmen. And they never succeeded. I still speak and you still speak the way we speak. Notwithstanding attempts by Sister Eva Wagat in my church and all the. All the people that came from England and Canada in Aparima to make us Englishmen. We are not Englishmen. Parliament. Parliament. And the last thing, Parliament cannot solve our problems. Parliament, there is no. You cannot legislate yourself out of a shrine problem when you have parenting to deal with, schooling to deal with, unemployment to deal with all of government approach. And you can't lay that burden on parliament alone. Any government that tries to legislate Itself out of a problem will not succeed. And that is the key. The last thing is some of the legislation that came to Parliament needed careful rethinking. That's why the UNC did not support. I could tell you that one of the problems with legislation in Trinidad, that's why laws make money. They're not well thought out of loopholes all over the place. And all you have to do is find in their loophole and you get your murderer off free Scotch Street. That is why if we tighten our laws, if we think through our laws, it is black or white, our lawyers won't be making the mint that they're making. When you see some salaries at one lawyer and think that $10 million, $40 million, $60 million. Martino gets so much, this one get that one. No, I'm not saying they don't legitimately earn that, but what do we get for that billion of dollars expended here? Nothing. We not improved. Our schools are not improved. Our hospitals don't have enough equipment and whatnot. Because we spending money on stupidness. And it starts with bad laws that are not well thought out, brought to parliament, pass with a simple majority and end up with loopholes for lawyers to exploit. Wow. I think I've dealt with the three issues.
[01:12:28] Speaker B: Yeah, he raised the three issues all right. Hello, Good morning.
[01:12:31] Speaker C: Hello. Morning.
[01:12:32] Speaker B: Good morning. Yeah.
[01:12:33] Speaker G: Boy, this is almost perfect timing to bring this man on the station just.
[01:12:38] Speaker C: A few days before the election. But you know the thing about it is that all the other mps that.
[01:12:44] Speaker G: Is disenchanted with army.
[01:12:49] Speaker C: Those are the.
[01:12:50] Speaker G: Same Ms. That got shorted and for so many years they had no problem with the. With the party. Absolutely no problem with the party.
[01:12:57] Speaker B: Right.
[01:12:58] Speaker C: Why you don't. Why you don't shut.
[01:13:01] Speaker B: You see here the thing with that caller and alarm talk because clearly he's another one that blinded by certain rhetoric that is being spewed on political campaigns. He wasn't paying attention to what you were saying. He talking about all the time. You're in the party, you are no problem. All of a sudden you know your problems and you're not understanding what Mr. Rodney Charles is explaining this morning. He's actually saying to you all, I don't have to answer to nobody.
I talk in my mind. I tell you exactly what I experience. And this is basically what Mr. Rodney Charles is saying. This is his experience. He has been on both sides. He's explaining especially for the last 30 years what he was been, what he experienced. Why you want to chastise the man for Explaining what the truth is what he went through. He ain't talking second hand. Nobody didn't tell him. He was cautioned in the beginning, as he said. And then he went through it and he saw it bear fruit.
So they tell if you plant this seed, it's going to be a Pomerac. He implanted expecting to see Plum. And if he was, he saw Pomerac. I don't understand. Mr. Charles. I apologize for that. I don't understand.
[01:14:15] Speaker C: No, no, no.
[01:14:15] Speaker B: I don't get it.
[01:14:16] Speaker C: I don't get it. And I want to make it here. I am not pnm. I am. I still remain a member of the unc, but I can. I am not going to take cotton back. I am going to. If something there's a problem, I'm going to say it and in the hope that we get a better unc. All right, continue this way. Hello and hello. This is the country. Now you're going to suppose you win the election and the thing collapse because there are people inside. They're going to make demands.
[01:14:43] Speaker B: Exactly. Hello, Good morning.
[01:14:45] Speaker C: Refinery is open. He is going to demand taking a bet this morning. He is with give it six months. He's going to demand you promise to open a refinery. And.
And we are waiting. All right, my viewers, if you take that decision, there's a cost factor that I could itemize you. It will cost us about something like 15 million US a year. Hello.
[01:15:08] Speaker B: Good morning.
[01:15:09] Speaker C: Hi.
[01:15:09] Speaker H: Good morning. Good morning.
I'm. I was a PNM supporter and I became a US reporter again because of what PNM did for the past nine days, nine years.
What, what I want to see though is I want to know why. Why does PNM still have so much control about who gets, who works in the ministries? Because one of the ministers was passing for the elections for us and she came and asked us who wants a job? You understand? Who wants a job? And she come and telling us that, you know, them build this place here for us this year. I think so. I want to know what we have to do for these, for these politicians. You know, we do, we pay we tax for them to get a nice life for them to help us out. And look what happened in the last nine years. You know, all the Trinidad and Tobago taxpayers dollars go on to PNM for them to destroy the economy. And now we hope in UNT come and help you. Hoping that somebody else come and help me. But what guarantee we had that they will when they get elected. You understand? Have a blessed day.
[01:16:12] Speaker B: All right. Thank you very much for that. I take our next call quickly as we winding down to the top. Hello, Good morning.
Very quickly, fast track.
[01:16:21] Speaker G: I cancel nothing. You preached this morning and you said the exact reality. I know. Mr.
Bagel, are you talking, are you talking there? If you decide to give people that option, then we can have a free voice. Independent candidate. I did it twice.
[01:16:36] Speaker C: 11.
[01:16:36] Speaker G: You know they wouldn't vote for you yet. They don't like what's going on. They don't like we had a leader in here, Mr. Charles who threatened all the people. Don't go to a meeting that the government every day was holding. At the end of the day we live in a little society and we were always supposed to build out debate or present better suggestions and recommendations to governor to govern any institution. Not boycott nothing I bring more than their literacy. Like if you boycott that meeting, I mean, I mean and that's why. And that is thing you explained this.
[01:17:06] Speaker E: Morning.
[01:17:09] Speaker G: And continue to speak out. And we need to speak up because we are better country. Not about UNC and Canada, Ms. Kamali. It's about a better country for all of us.
[01:17:20] Speaker B: All right, sorry about that, Morales. Rodney, thank you so much. Again, we clearly running out of time and allow you to give us some departing words. And thank you again for this very, very spirited and animated interview. So any departing words and I thank.
[01:17:35] Speaker C: You for the opportunity. And at the end of the day we have to have a group of people who believe in Trinidad and Tobago. It takes a long time to get to that position and it's difficult and it's lonely. It's lonely. But we need Trinidad and Tobago being kind to us. Somebody said just now that the last nine years have been rough. It's been rough because the price of oil has been low. Simple. If I, Rodney Charles, sent my two children, four children to university, two in Canada, one in Barbados, one in Trinidad. I paid for that because I had a good salary and I had side jobs. But if I come today, as I have retired, in fact I understand that our parliamentary terminal benefits is dependent on a budget being passed so we cannot access that. So if I go to promise to send two children to university because I did it before, look at my track record. But my income is less, it can't happen. And there's a kind of intellectual honesty that is required of U.S. citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, if we ever to move from this morass of a third world country behind Barbados, behind Bahamas, St Lucia and struggling to survive. We need clear eyed, non partisan citizens of Trinidad and today. Thank you very much, sir.
[01:18:57] Speaker B: Mr. Rodney Charles, thank you very much and we will talk again in the not too distant future. Have yourself a very safe and good day, sir.
[01:19:04] Speaker C: Thank you, sir. All the best.
[01:19:05] Speaker B: Same to you. All right.
[01:19:07] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
