Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: And it's my pleasure to welcome to our program. I believe the last time we had a discussion was just after you became the pro, which was a pretty long time ago. So it's my pleasure to welcome you back to our program this morning. Let's say hi, good morning and welcome to MP Anita Haynes. Good morning to you.
[00:00:30] Speaker C: Good morning. How are you?
[00:00:32] Speaker B: I'm fine. It's nice to have you with us here this morning.
[00:00:35] Speaker C: Thanks for having me. If you didn't say that, I would not have realized so much time has passed since we last spoke on. It really has been quite some time.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: It has. I was thinking about it this morning, and I was saying that we probably needed to have you on a lot more because there were so many things in your constituency that you've been raising for one reason or another. It didn't. But this is the opportunity that we have to speak, and we'll speak about a lot of things, not just, not just those very, very controversial ones that are occupying the majority of people's time at this point this morning. Having you in the program is about getting an update, getting to know some of the things that are taking place. That have been taking place.
The, using the term controversy is probably putting it lightly. What has transpired would be called by Russian Empire for the executive elections to be not next elections to be held. Yes, in speaking with him and in speaking on the matter yourself, Rushton Parry and doctor Rai Ragbell, who has also endorsed the call on Rodney Charles. But Rodney Charles is a sight and a part the of three of you, Rushton Parry, yourself and Doctor Rai Ragbell, have been, for the greater part, not involved in controversy.
You all have been not associated with somebody bacchanal that we normally hear and we move along, talk and all those kinds of things. So it was, it was, I don't want to say out of the ordinary or not necessarily in keeping with, with your track record for the pronouncements to be made that were made. And in trying to evaluate them for my listeners, I said that the one thing you cant accuse these three people of is bacchanal and confusion, to say that its traditional, that theyre always finding theirself in some kind of nonsense. So we could just dismiss this as par for the course. This is not traditional Anita Haines behavior for you to speak out and that kind of thing. And I thought that I needed to point that out to give, to give the listener the opportunity to fully analyze all that's going on now. When you came out and you endorsed the call, that took a lot of people by surprise, simply because, as I said, well, Anita Haynes, do get yourself involved in that kind of movie, lamb kind of thing. And it was interesting. Why did you feel the need to come out and say what you said?
[00:03:08] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, Friday, MP Parry, Russia Parry made a call for an internal election. I think he did so in a manner that was respectful, calling for members to have their voices heard and ending weekend following, released Saturday and Sunday. You know, you saw this slew of releases and whatnot. And personally, I felt like it convoluted the issue. It took an issue of constitutionally due internal elections, Natox elections, and it turned it into whether or not you supported Misses Posad Besesser, who is the current duly elected political leader of the United National Congress. Now, you know, I just didn't understand how you can take a call for constitutionally due internal election and turn it into an attack on the present leadership. For me, if you are in the present leadership and you consider an election an attack, then you have some serious questions as to what is your. What you believe your role is as a UNC executive. Because as a UNC executive member, your role is to answer to and serve the people of the United National Congress. So you should be more than willing, absolutely happy for them to have their voices heard. And the way you do that in this process is by an election, you know. And so I felt the need to come out on Monday and say, listen, let us put some clarity on this thing.
You can call for an internal election. You can have an internal election. And it can be respectful. It can ventilate issues. It can create a space for groups within the political organization. Shockingly, I would find that. I mean, I didn't think that anything that I said could be found, could be disagreeable. It was that you could hear that. And you can deny the strength of the United National Congress, or you can believe that we are unable to conduct ourselves in a politically mature manner going forward, that we can look at our organization, organization and say, there's value in listening to the voices of our membership and having them included. Then there was a question as to why call for an internal election when there was no conversation about the internal election being not going to be held. And I thought that was also an interesting point of view, because not only two weeks before misses Pesati tava herself announced the close of nomination and beginning of screening, and logically speaking, that must mean that you are going to use the screening committee comes from the executive of the party. So if you are aware that an executive election is constitutionally due to me, the logical manner in which you would handle that is that you will get the internal election out of the way and then use the persons who have gotten the mandate from the UNC membership, and those persons will screen the candidates and create team for the general election in 2025, that we would be the only logical sequence of events. And so you have this call from MP Parry to say, let's have the internal elections. Let us strengthen our party going forward. Let us ensure that members have their say in the team that is going forward into 2025. You have this reactionary call and a show of support from Misses Pizarro, who I believe in no way was under any sort of attack. It was just a question of whether or not the elections would be called. And I saw that it was a justified call in that moment, especially by means of the current executive, to say that nominations will close on April 11 and screening will start shortly thereafter. But if you go through that process, then you are further entrenching an executive that you have yourself have already acknowledged would need to face an election within the next two or three months.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: I found, well, I. It was not surprising to me, the response from the number of MP's, and I don't want to use the term dog whistle, but it suggested to me that there was a clear attempt to skew in the public domain what the real issue was. I couldn't understand why twelve mp's needed to fire off press releases about Kamala Posadi Sessa when that election wasn't even spoken about.
And it shows the singing from the same hymn book that some elements of the UNC have, have gravitated to. Whenever there is an issue like this, whether it was intentional or not, from the time you talk, Cameron said. So you have people who will just jump on the bandwagon, because then they will see anything and everything against her as an attack against, well, the party and all these kinds of things. I didn't see the need for it because I thought that when Kamala Saadi Saysa addressed the matter and said, well, elections will be held when constitutionally due, that should have been the end of it.
But with the MP's chiming in, I don't know why they felt the need to do that. They inflamed the matter and they started making people draw lines in the sand, which I think was intentional. But that's sad, because when you have that attempt to. Well, I don't know if I should say attempt, but what ended up happening is you fragmented the party because you had a gentleman who was asking for something that, and to the credit of the UNC and to Kamala Posadi says that the executive elections have been held whenever they were due.
And I had said to Rushton Pariah, you didn't think you jumped the gun a little bit here. You should have waited for the party to give some kind of indication that they were not going to hold the election. And I asked him that pointedly. I said, well, why did you think that you needed to go public with this? And he said that there were things taking place behind the scenes that made him concerned about what was going on. And that is why he took the decision that he did. You spoke about logic and politics. I don't know if they necessarily go hand in hand. And this one clearly identifies that it may not necessarily be the case. One of the. Well, not one off. The excuse because I spoke to Khadija Amin and a couple others off the air and the excuse that the nation has been given even though the political leader has said that the elections will be held. The MP's, many of them have given the impression that the election will not be held because they are concerned. So you're confused. You know who to believe here this morning because Kamala Posadi says, making it clear, no uncertain terms, that the election will be held constitutionally due. And I set an MP's telling you we have an election to focus on.
The national executive elections may not be that important. So you're confused out of your mind. But the PNM in Tobago is showing a level of maturity that lacks in the UNC because they have a general election to fight in Tobago. Due to Tobago, seats are vitally important in the greater scheme of things. Are they going to have executive elections in April, on the 27th and 28th or something like that? What message do you think that sends?
[00:10:37] Speaker C: You know, the question of the reaction of certain members of parliament and creating that confusion after misses Prasad Betas spoke and she said elections will be held when they are constitutionally due.
When I would have spoken to members of the media after I said, well, to me, I agree with you that the matter was indeed finished until the date a school.
What you saw was citizens go into a campaign mode. And so they created in their mind what the internal election campaign ought to start to look like. And again, you know, when I agreed to take this interview here, I said, listen, you know, some of the things we have to be very clear about is that as members of the United National Congress, I firmly believe we are all on the same side. We see the state of affairs in our country. We understand what will be ten years of a PNM administration has done to our country. What we have to decide amongst ourselves within our party is, what does that mean? What are we presenting to the national public come 2025? What are we showing? We have to show a level of stability. We have to show that we are able to govern. We have to show that. We have to answer that question of political maturity.
The UNC will celebrate 35 years on April 30. And I think now is the time that we can really show what our political party is evolving into. And so, I mean, it is unfortunate that persons who are within our space do not believe in their own capability of conducting a respectful, policy based internal campaign, because the doubt has to come from there. Because, you know, if you. The attacks started on a call for an internal election, which is where, you know, I spent this entire weekend at various events within my constituency from Friday all the way until yesterday. And everybody who's been coming up to me has been saying, listen, we have to win in 2025. I said, yeah, we absolutely have to win in 2025. And the way to ensure that we win in 2025 is to ensure that all on the first round, that our membership is, you know, that they feel a sense of purpose, that a connection to the political organization, that they understand that we are here to represent and advocate you for your voice. And so we are in the spaces that we hear your concerns and we can carry it up to the levels of the parliament. And you go from there, and then you show the national public whether united National Congress is really made up. And I still stand very firm that this is our opportunity to do this. This is our opportunity to show the political maturity the United National Congress. But it can only be done if the internal campaign is conducted with a level of respect and decency to show what our party is made of. And if. If all persons participating are unwilling to do so, I think they really need to rethink who they are using their voice to support. Are you using your support voice to support the members of the United National Congress who are saying, listen, ensure that our team is ready for victory in 2025? We cannot continue to live under PNM administration? Are you listening to the voices of the undecided voters who are saying, I mean, if you take the local government election and you saw the low voter turnout, if you see current, you know, if you track along lower voter turnouts across the board, you'll see that the electorate, the people of Trinidad and Tobago, are largely dissatisfied with the political product presented to them. Of us who are in that landscape, we have a responsibility to take on board what our audience is saying. I mean, you know, those of you who exist in the media, you know, if you aren't listening to your audience, if you are not presenting what they need, that they'll switch off on you. And we are facing the same thing in our political landscape. And so it is imperative on those of us who are participating in public policy and politics to take a strong, stern look at ourselves and an honest look at ourselves and ensure that we are presenting to the something that is inspirational, hopeful, and that you can see where the development of Trinidad and Tobago will come from. And that. I think it has always been very important to me. It has been. You know, the reason I got involved in politics was to be to work towards national development. And so I think all of those things made me very justified and comfortable in my calls for internal election. In my constant was on how these internal elections ought to be conducted and value that it has for you UNC members and for Trinidad and Tobago at large.
[00:15:34] Speaker B: One of the other unfortunate things that we saw arising out of this whole discussion is the textbook attempt to vilify.
It happens, it happens in the PNM, it happens in the US, happening in every political party. Once there is a voice or an opinion that is contrary to the status quo, you start to hear all different kind of conspiracy theories. And one of those made it to the newspaper about the party being undermined for two years and all that kind of none. And I, when I read this story, I was like, oh, they can't really think that the population that naive. And when I had the St. Augustine MP, I asked her about it because she as well repeated it on the pro. And I asked her, well, you can't expect me as a. As a onlooker. I'm not even a member of the party. So members of the party would be more concerned. You can't tell me that because an issue was raised and there are some dissenting voices or opposing voices, let's not say dissenting.
You all of a sudden now want to tell me that some of these people working against the party for two years. My question was, well, what has the party done about it? Because you can't tell me that you're aware of all these things taking place and you ain't doing anything to fix it.
You've put yourself and Rushton Parry and Doctor Rai and everybody else in a position that the possibility of being victimized is real.
Do you think, and I'm going to choose my words carefully here now, do you think that moving forward you're going to be treated fairly because of what transpired? And that's our honest question, yeah, I mean, you would know your own mind.
[00:17:22] Speaker C: I mean, it is a fair question.
At the events this weekend, I met with some of my colleagues. Our relationship remains very cordial. Persons, I think quite largely our understanding of where the calls have come from in the question of fairness and in the treatment going forward. I can't really see what avenues there would be for unfair treatments even acceptable facing a screening committee.
I've been very deliberate about the work that I am doing. I remain a constant contributor within parliament, within my constituency as well. And so I thought the conversation about undermining the party was very, very interesting and extremely unfortunate. On March 1, I moved my private with members to emotion on education.
We had contributing in that motion, misses Basan recessor, among others who contributed, you know, contributed their voices to that, to my motion. And, you know, I think it's clear we all made it clear on March 1 that we understood the work that I was doing to shadow education, how much I ensure that I am on top of the issues, advocating for teachers, students and all education stakeholders, as well as work within my constituency where we have now some areas who never had Pipeborne water through the advocacy from of the MP's office, getting Pipeborne water in some areas for the first time in 2024. And so the track record is clear. The question of dissenting voices that made undermining us for the past two years, anybody that said that has brought no evidence, absolutely no evidence to show where this question of undermining has come from. And to me, you know, you're going back to a type of politics that again, persons have already rejected. So that if you have a concern and you're not able to air concern in a respectful manner and that you're going to be tossed out and whatnot, I think that is going to be severely rejected by the population in 2024. Those things are just not going to fly. When you go into to the polls in 2025, what persons want to see is that you are able to take a diverse range of voices and that is going to mean disagreements at some time. And that you are able to take all the voices present within Trinidad and Tobago and take those voices and form a vehicle to move us towards national development and again, I urge my colleagues within the United National Congress, think very carefully about what you are doing and what you are saying, because people are looking on and what they want to see is that you can treat with disagreements, you can treat with differing opinions, because once you form government, everybody's not going to agree with you. They are not going to just, everybody is not just going to fall in line. And how you treat with that and still create your path towards national development becomes essential. And so, again, I really want to urge my colleagues, consider all of our collective conduct in our internal affairs as space that the national public gets to look on and see what the United National Congress has to offer. And I firmly believe, listen, we do have the plans and the policies. What we have to show is that we are able to execute it internally, and then we'll be able to execute it at the polls in 2025.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: The level of political maturity that you're speaking with is commendable.
I'll tell you that, because normally when you speak to politicians, and I say this across the board, everybody always trying to take a potshot at somebody else and score some kind of political points. You've not done any of that this morning, and that's to your credit. It says that you're focused on what you think the important elements of the discussion should be. Many times, far too many times, when we have discussions like these, they descend into a movie lang discussion. And I'm glad that we didn't go down that road. We need to take a couple of quick messages, though, and when we get back, I'll open the phone lines a bit to allow our listeners to interact, to get their points of view across. We are speaking this morning with Tabakit MP Anita Haynes. Let's take a couple of your calls. Emphasis on quick. 6273, 223-625-2257 hello. Good morning.
[00:22:11] Speaker A: Kardashian.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: Good morning.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Goodness.
I'm going to ask you a question.
Are you satisfied, along with the others who recommended that elections take place, are you satisfied with the leadership of the UNC at this point in time? Because certainly I am not. Because you're going, you lost two elections.
The party is not together as it should be, and the public centers this going into 2025. Alice? Nope.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Thank you for your call. Let's get your response.
[00:22:54] Speaker C: As a question of the satisfaction. I think we certainly can do better. I think we can improve. I've said that already, that we can improve the quality of politics and political discourse that we are putting forward to the public. And my call for the internal election is a call for improvement across the board. We certainly have the talent housed and residents in the UNC already, and it is ready just to harness that talent and put all of us to the best use as possible to win in 2025.
[00:23:25] Speaker B: Hello. Good morning.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: Morning, population. And Miss Ainz.
Ms. Haynes, why are you not towing the line? Why are you. Why are you being a dissident? Did you raise these matters internally in the party?
Why. Why aren't you throwing the line?
[00:23:47] Speaker B: Okay, thank you so much. I think we get just to the call. Are you a dissident?
[00:23:52] Speaker C: Um, I consider myself to be a person who's just calling for a respect to the UNC constitution and the members of the UNC. If that makes me a dissident, that must mean that the others are calling for the opposite. And I really would not like to believe that.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: 6273 223-625-2257 somebody saying, good morning. Excellent discussion. I would like to ask her if she feels now is the time for the UNC to accept Makila into the party.
[00:24:28] Speaker C: I think for the uncle going forward, part of our mandate really ought to be accepting of everybody who is interested in doing the work of national development. That once you are interested in doing the work to create the type of Trinidad and Tobago that we want to see, then you ought to find a space in our vehicle. Because our vehicle is about progress. It is about creating a Trinidad and Tobago that is prosperous, that you can see development that you can see, like I said, hope and inspiration from the political product going forward to be. To me, the ideal UNC is a UNC that is welcoming to any productive voice in the interest of national development.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: Hello. Good morning.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: Hi. Morning.
[00:25:14] Speaker B: Good morning.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: Morning, Miss Haynes.
[00:25:16] Speaker C: Good morning.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: Few questions.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: Atish. I want to ask misses Haynes if at any time, did she meet with Rushton Parry, MP, prior to his press conference to discuss these matters? Second question.
Is she aware that MP Rush Tan Parry have had meetings more than a year now, discussing and chatting this way forward to deal with this matter outside of the party.
Number three, how long have you been a member of the United National Congress? Thank you very much.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: Okay. Three questions there.
The first one. Did you meet prior with Russian Pari?
[00:25:59] Speaker C: Well, Rushdan Parry is my parliamentary colleague, so I think that question goes without saying that we meet all the time. Right. And any question of what discussions or, you know, what is taking place wanna tell UNC members and Trinidadians and Tobagonians as a whole. Right. This question of.
Or how you think about going forward and what you. What your conversations are like, those things you can't really say you're undermining anybody. If you are having discussions about what the future of your institution or the future of your country could look like, what you can do is consider where you are, where you'd like to be, and put strategies forward, thoughts about going forward. Put that out into the internal domain as well as the external domain. That is what you're supposed to do. That is a thriving democracy does. And so the question of whether or not Mister Parry was having discussions about calling for the internal elections, I don't think those things become relevant. I think what you have to look at, what you have to judge is whether the call was valid, which it is, whether or not it was done in our manner, that in any way brought the party into any distribute. It did not. And so that you, you know, once you get those two tenants out of the way, I can't understand what the difficulty with it is. And as for when I became a member of the United National Congress, that would have been about 2014. 2013, yeah, 2013.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: Let's take another call.
Nobody there. Hello, good morning.
[00:27:39] Speaker A: Hello. Good morning, Satish and good morning to Miss Haynes. Now, La, Romania. The entire discussion is hinged around the leadership of the party.
Now, in the present political leader of the UNC has quite a losing streak where elections is concerned. So how do you convince the population that misses posadises is the person to lead the UNC to victory? And how do you convince the population that the UNC is the party to really take the country forward and you know, and well, literally take the country forward and make us a better country, how do you intend to portray a party and leader as that person and entity to do that?
[00:28:30] Speaker C: On the question of how do we convince the population about the United National Congress, I think that that answer lies in our work. It. When our parliamentary work in our constituency, work in our work at the corporations, etcetera, wherever the UNC, who will the position of power? To me, the impetus is on those of us who hold those offices, to show that the work can be done, to show that you are deliberate, that you are progressive, that you have ideas for development. If you have a constituency, you ought to be able to be looking at your constituencies for ideas for development. What types of programs do you have? What are you advocating for within your constituency and that builds international product? I am a firm believer that you can only build a nation when you build your community. So if you have a community, if you're a councilor, if you are party group member, any part of the space that you hold, you have a responsibility to build your community, and that is how we build the nation.
In the question of convincing the population about our leadership, again, that is a question for our members to answer. Once you've had internal election, once the internal election has been called and it has been held, then the group going forward has a mandate to present to the nation the leadership of the United National Congress as well as the politic of the United National Congress overall. And so I can, because we have firm commitment and agreement that the elections will be called when they are constitutionally due. I say I'll leave that to the question to be answered by the members of the United National Congress.
[00:30:07] Speaker B: Hello. Good morning.
[00:30:08] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: Good morning.
[00:30:09] Speaker A: Satish MP Fatabeet good morning to you, ma'am.
[00:30:13] Speaker C: Good morning.
[00:30:14] Speaker A: The United National Congress began as a splinter group in the club 88, as a matter of fact.
How possible do you see the current crisis culminating in possibly another similar repeat of history repeating itself 2024, if you will? How possible do you see that happening? Thank you.
[00:30:39] Speaker C: Listen, I know one of the maybe unspoken fears, maybe very spoken fears of the UNC member is this question of splintering and division. The one thing that I can assure persons, but I mean, I entered my political career as the public relations officer of the United National Congress. I am so firmly married to the brand that is the United National Congress. In building the brand that is the United National Congress. I don't even think that can be understated that I, you know, I understand what brand UNC means to the UNC member. And so I would do my utmost best to ensure that there is no splintering and division, but only strengthening and building. I really do believe that internal elections can be conducted and that it can be done in a way that strengthens the organization. I familiar with the political history. I am familiar with how things have played out, some of the things playing out before. I will even mourn in some cases. But the question of splintering, I think will only arise if we say that there is no room for agreement on how we move forward. But if you are interested in national development, if you are interested in development of the United National Congress, there is a path forward. The path forward is saying that we will hold our elections, we will respect our electoral process, we will respect the voices of our membership, and then we will move forward as one. That is just the way that you have to do it. That is the way that you have to conduct yourself, to conduct ourselves going forward, and again strengthen our political brand, strengthen our political vehicle, because it's no good that we have all these policies and these plans for the nation, but then we are not elected to enact those plans and policies. So we really do have to ensure that our political vehicle is strong, resilient and able to take us to the polls in 2025 and victory at the polls in 2025 so that we can enact some of the things that we been discussing that are required in Trinidad to be able to move forward.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: There are several scenarios that can play out moving forward.
The election, the Natacs election can be held if the opposition leader keeps her word that it will be held when constitutionally due. The party can't take a decision to postpone that because they feel that it's too close to elections. And that's the message that twelve MP's plus all these naticks and central executive here and there over the place seem to support.
Well, I guess that's a wait and see, because to the party's credit, they've held their elections when they need to. And we have to operate on the premise that it's going to be the same this time around. We will wait and see. Time will tell whether Rushton Parry was justified in making his call or not.
But one of the things that is going to be closely monitored moving forward, regardless his nomination of who gets the nod, is Anita Haynes going to throw her hat back in the ring and what do you think is going to happen?
[00:34:01] Speaker C: I am putting in my nominations, I will comply with the rules of the party, but in my nomination paperwork and I'll face the screening, this screening committee.
What happens is that I would put forward what I have done, what I intend to do for my community, for my constituency, what I intend to do for the political organization, the United National Congress, the work that I've done to build the brand that is the United National Congress. I'll put all of those things forward.
The one thing that, you know, misses Pasambi says that has been clear saying as well, is that this version of the United National Congress, what she considers her legacy, is to make it a meritocracy, a space where if you do the work, then you are able to hold portfolios. Certainly I will rest on my work that I have done. I cannot see how if you are in a political organization and calling for a more inclusive, people oriented space, I think all of those things fall well within the politics of what misses Posabi Saysa herself has echoed. And so, you know, I'll face the screening committee and I certainly look forward to participating in the internal election satisfactor shall tell you the truth. Sir, I do believe the internal elections will be called. I think that the question we're facing is a process question, whether or not they should have been called before this nomination screening committee. Those things are process questions. But the internal elections will be called. What we have to look at now, look forward to, is being bringing in the voices of the members so that it is you have the widest participation possible, that you're looking forward, that you're not calling it with 30 days. And so it's a scramble that you give the UNT a chance to say, listen, we can hear what you have to say. We understand your policies going forward. We know. I mean, one of the scholars asked it this time. The question the UNC has to answer to UNC members first is, what are we going to do differently so that we can get a different result in 2025? That should be the question on the ballot for the internal election. The question has to be, what fundamental changes are we going to make to show the population that we are indeed electable and the ideal space to govern Trinidad and Tobago come 2025?
[00:36:36] Speaker B: That's where we're going to have to leave it. We are out of time.
We will speak again, I'm sure, because there are things that we need to discuss. I didn't get to ask you a single question about your constituency and all the work that you're doing, but we'll have you on another time. I want to thank you for being with us here this morning and for sharing your insights into some of these very, very, very important matters. Thank you once again for being here with us.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5.
