Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5 kicking things off bright and early this morning. I did tell you guys, coming up in this hour we're going to be chatting with the Barkeepers and Operators association of Trinidad and Tobago, otherwise known as boat and we're discussing this whole notion that legislation is about to grace the legislative agenda in Parliament soon to raise the alcohol age limit for gambling and all these things. We want to welcome on the program this morning Satish Munisar. Good morning to you sir.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Good morning to you and good morning.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: To thank you very much for waking up early this morning and chatting with us very quickly on this issue. Now in my respected opinion, there is already an existing law as it relates to 18 years and over being allowed to purchase alcohol, cigarettes and even be allowed into clubs and gambling and all that kind of thing. As a matter of fact, the age of 18 is the age in this country where you are recognized as an adult.
And if at age 18 you are considered an adult, I think you making decisions that adults make should befit you should befall you, you know. So let's get your thoughts the association thoughts on this.
We know this will be piloted in Parliament soon. The prime minister has indicated it. What are your thoughts, sir?
[00:01:40] Speaker B: So from the association son standpoint we don't have a problem with the rays of age but there's two things that need to be done before enforcement is key. As you said that we have existed laws but you don't really see much enforcement to the laws.
So enforcement is important because you could make any amount of laws and if you don't have enforcement it makes no sense.
And two, there's a big illegal treating when it comes to cedar alcohol and gambling in Trinidad. So by raising the age, you're not stopping the age group from having access to alcohol or gambling, you're just moving them from legal entities into illegal entities.
So these are two things that you need to need to do.
I need to improve on before you even think about raising any age. Otherwise you will not achieve the objective.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: Has the association looked into other. Well, as you all cover all bars and beverages across, you know you all are the association for it. You mentioned enforcement and I have to agree with you. I can't tell you when last I go clubbing or go to one of those places on the avenue and see the bongsa asking you for an ID from young ladies or young men unless they watch you and you look real smally and you have your mother milk on your face, they ask you for that. How has the association been grappling with these issues?
Especially with the crisis that happened in this country some years ago with the ACORN incident.
You know, how have you all been managing the sale of alcohol to minors?
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Well, with nightclubs doesn't fall under our association, but in the members of our association, which is a fraction of the, of the bar owners, we ensure that we do not sell alcohol to minors.
That is, that is the law and we follow the law.
But I am not going to pretend that it doesn't happen.
There are bars around the country that allow that, that allows this to happen.
And there are clubs and nightclubs allow this.
But for my members, this is something that we are either about and, and we do not allow.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: I understand, I understand. So in fact, in fact you all are embracing this age adjustment.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: It's not actually that they say that we are embracing it, it's just that we don't have a problem with it because it's a benchmark that you would see in first world countries and so forth. So if you're looking for change, we don't have a problem with it. But the problem is to achieve the goal that the Prime Minister wants, you need to step up. Enforcement is one first on the existing law and also deal with the illegal trades. Because if in these first world countries that have these laws, they don't have the problems that we have, they don't have illegal trader alcohol and they don't have illegal gambling.
Even if they do have it, it's not any high percentage that we do because illegal things are alcohol and illegal gambling in China is rampant.
Nothing is being done about it. And this is something that the association they've been talking about for years and nothing has been done so far for.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: The benefit of the listening audience. What can be deemed as illegal? Sale of alcohol.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: All right, in order for you to sell alcohol, you need to have a license.
No, they are unlicensed properties like shops, parlors, minima. Anybody who has any mom and pop business and decide to sell alcohol, they just go and buy alcohol and sell it, which is totally illegal. Also in terms of gambling, they are purchasing the machine. They are doing everything and having everything without a license and that is illegal alcohol and illegal gambling.
So, and that is rampant.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: What is your recommendations that government should do? Because I mean when we look at what's taking place and they're widespread across the country with crime and criminality, the police, the police officers are spread thin. We have them on vacation, who on leave, who on training who study in law and different things that are happening. The focus seems to be on schools reopening, placement of officers in and around those areas for children's safety and security of the faculty and staff. You know, what is the bar association recommending could be suggested to the honorable Prime Minister in terms of enforcement of the existing laws while we seek to amend the age limit to 21.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: Well, as you say, there's a lot on the plate for the enforcement agencies. But as the government, this is something that they have to find a solution to. So laws are there to be enforced. So we have to find a way to find out, find a way to enforce all laws. And the association is open to discussion with the government to give our ideas and so forth. But we have to find some way to crack down on the problems that we have right now before we go to do anything else. But as I said, we do not have a problem with what the Prime Minister intention is. But in order to achieve that intention, there are things that they need to do first before making the law, because it would just be a law on paper and it would not achieve the objective.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: What do you think the Prime Minister's objective is as it relates to this law? You say you talk heavily on the objective that she may want to achieve. What do you think that objective is?
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Well, based on her comments is that she says that the younger age was having access to the actual. Is that they, you know, they are younger, they don't know how to control it. Sometimes it may lead into addictions and so forth, and also putting themselves into problems like in terms of drinking and driving and all these kind of things.
So in her objective is for persons to be more mature in order to partake in these things.
[00:08:24] Speaker A: You know what is most worrying for me? I look at society as a whole and I can't help but think to myself if at the age of 18, I can make some serious life changing decisions in terms of sexual activities, even becoming pregnant, starting a family, getting married, having a whole wedding reception, even getting a job. I could work at Caribbeerie, I could work at a factory, I could do different. I can legally work.
I can even cast a ballot that can shape the future of this country.
My vote can be counted. You know, for me so much this is just my thought on a layman's terms, so much can happen and is allowed at the age of 18 even to be facing criminal charges if I commit an offense at that age. But I have my own family.
I am now 20 with a 2 year old child or a 1 year old child. I am married, I have my family, I pay our rent, I working. And you're telling me I would like to indulge in a beer and I can't. You know, it just seems a bit far fetched to me.
In those first world countries, those age limits, you are considered an adult at those age. Beyond that you are a minor. There is no adult. And then we telling the adult when you know. So I'm just. That's just my thought and I told you that to hear your concerns or your thoughts on what I just said.
[00:09:49] Speaker B: No, well what you're saying is a valid argument. But also in the first world countries that has these laws for I they also have these Same laws at 18. So there's an argument for back and forth because someone, some person could also turn around and say that yes, you have the ability at the at the age of 18 to make these decisions. But alcohol inflicts on issues on decision making on points in time depends on the amount of alcohol they consume.
So there could be a back and forth argument for to and fro.
It depends on, on from which direction you look at that.
So again being that is the benchmark from the first world countries, the bar association doesn't have a problem with it. But you need to fix other things before you reach the that level because you would not be achieving your objectives and and what you would just be doing is just moving these pool of customers from 18 to 21 out of legal tax paying businesses into illegal businesses.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: Okay, that's a very interesting point. Because once you move that pool of customers away that they can't walk into a bar and purchase alcohol, they will then engage it in these illegal trade and practices.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: It is very simple in, in the bars, the clubs or wherever it is, once as you have the proper enforcement, you have control over it. Now when you move the age from 18 to 21, these pool of customers now will go to the illegal establishment, these parlor down the road or wherever it is that they could get access here to the alcohol. There's no control over that location because sometimes you're just moving them from here from our controlling environment, town control environment environment.
[00:11:49] Speaker A: Because sometimes when you look at these situations, you know, as you mentioned, the, the little bar, the little parlors and so forth. I mean what is the legal requirement that you could have of alcoholic, alcoholic beverages it can have on your premises?
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Legal requirement?
[00:12:06] Speaker A: Well, no, let me rephrase the question. I've heard instances where if you had two case of being your house you can't be considered playing a trade trading the alcohol illegally. But if you have, if a Caribbean truck pull up in front of your place and offload 25, 30 cases ABs in a parlor. But if you have a case, because two cases of beer could be for personal consumption and friends and a gathering. So what is the legal limit that you think that you are aware of that a person can have on their premises? And even if they have a small parlor or mini mart at the front of the house body structure, but they have this, you know, all right to.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: My understanding of the legalized mark is two cases up here or two bottles of rum. But that is for possession for private, for your private compound.
That is, that is what it is legalized that. So any type of alcohol that is being sold without a license is illegal.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: Noted. Noted. Because you will often hear person saying well they had a little shop in the area and they only have two quesabas.
So you would go to the, you would go to them and then they would say a case because there's only two act because if they, if somebody says hey, them selling bears they know illegally and police come. Well obviously I only had two cases for my use and look, I don't drink six already. I just have a case and a half remaining.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: Whatever that is for your private residence. That is not to be in your, in your business or to be sold to anyone. But then it's alcohol in our business or being sold without a license is illegal.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: I want to tell you. Thank you so much. And as we get set to wrap this first interview this morning, your recommendations to legitimate bar owners on this situation. To protect themselves against the oncoming law that. Oh, before we take that question, let's take a call quickly and see who is on the line. Good morning.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: If you have two cases of cat and bears in your house, we have our pala in front.
Can you put some be fridge in the parlor for yourself or you have to put that outside parlor inside the house.
Think about it.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: Thanks Satish. That's a very important question and a very important point.
Not paraphrasing but I have my parlor. Some people have the parlor in the front of the house. Some apartments have the parlor attached to the gallery area of the house.
And you like your beer. So you have your two case inside. You buy your two case but you have your chiller. You might have a fridge in the shop where you're stuck in soft drink juices and whatever to sell water and you decide to rest a six pack in your, in your, in Your shell. So when you in the shop selling and you're doing your job, you could sip up here. Nothing is wrong with that. Can you do that? Could the police pull up and see a six pack in your parlor area?
Cool.
And.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: This is where it has the problem with the law. So from the association standpoint, this is where you encounter problems.
So before you look at raising the age to the legal establishment, you should look at things and legislation and how to deal with this situation.
Because where you have These in the first world countries, where you have these below of the 21 or 21 years, this problem of having a business running out of your, out of your private established establishment without setting aside a business area or something is not an issue in those post world countries, but it is an issue here. So you have to think about the situation and the problem holistically, make changes in order to cut down on the illegal field and illegal gambling before you go behind illegal establishment.
[00:16:08] Speaker A: All right, I hear that loud and clear. You know, and for me, I think it takes a lot of research work on the part of the government and legislators to really climb down on these things. In some instances, what people do, they go to buy the Caribbean? Well, the beer. They go to buy the beer. And when they go, you may be told, it happened to me some years ago, I was told, okay, do it a cold beer boy. But no way around has a bar. And I said, boy, that little party, just go and get one. And when I went, the man refused to sell me the bear because he don't know you. He don't know man. And I could be undercover police officer. So it took the somebody from the area to go and purchase it for me. And I got it and then I realized, oh, that's what's taking place, you know, so.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: And that proves that they very well know what to do. It is illegal.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: Of course they know. Of course they know. But I was just wondering, you know, from a, from the association standpoint. You know, you talk about the enforcements and my final thought is the recommendations on such.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Well, the recommendations as you see, it will take a lot of research and a lot of thought into thinking about the idea holistically. So this is where public consult consultation comes in. All right, okay. And we should do, should have some of that before we make any adjustments.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: All right. I want to thank you so much for chatting with me this morning, Mr. Satish Monisar. Thank you so much for chatting with me and the Barkeepers and Operators association of Toronto and Tobago. Obviously, have a great day sir. And let's hope that from our lips to her ears, she hears this interview and really, as you rightfully say, make the necessary adjustments to the these amended laws that she seeks to bring before Parliament. Have a great day, sir.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Thank you for having me.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: You're welcome. The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
