STUDENT EXPULSION AND SOLUTIONS

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, Accountability the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5. [00:00:08] Speaker B: It's time to switch gears quickly. The show is moving faster pace this morning as we are set to chat with the president of the National Parent Teachers Association, Walter Stewart. Good morning to you sir, and good. [00:00:18] Speaker A: Morning and happy Wednesday to you. Good morning as well to your listenership. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Thank you very much. Before I get going, one little thing I need to do. [00:00:31] Speaker A: All right. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Beautiful. And as we start the interview, we are chatting with Mr. Walter Stewart, the president of the National Parent Teachers association of Trinidad and Tobago. Now, as we are hearing in the recent forum from the Prime Minister, it has to deal with the fact that she wants to protect schoolchildren. It was her mantra during her election campaign and now that she's in governance, she is seeking to address these issues. What is the association's thoughts on this, as to how she should go about or your ideas as to what can be implemented to protect staff and students alike? [00:01:09] Speaker C: Good. [00:01:09] Speaker A: Let me say that we highly commend the government with regards to their policy on children and school in particular. As a matter of fact, I go as far as as to say one of the imperatives on the policy of education is the focus on the child. So that we simply want to endorse the sentiments of the government through the Hon. Prime Minister, especially with regards to school infraction and protecting the majority of students who really want to come to school to learn and to get an education. [00:01:39] Speaker B: Now, when we talk about learning and getting an education, we have already seen a startling figure of 21,661 students being suspended out of the school system. Mrs. Kamala Passad Bisesa has stated that the expulsion, disciplinary measures and suspension is not the end all she still wants to be able. While they're facing the charges, there still must be a learning institution for them. What is the NPTA thinking about this? How could this be addressed in terms of keeping them in the education system but removing them from those that are willing to learn? [00:02:18] Speaker A: And we call that restoration. And certainly we again endorse that restorative process because there certainly has to be reasons why the students are involved in these infractions. And let me just take you back to one of the issues that we are looking at is early screening of all our students because the student didn't wake up today, Wednesday and said let me go outside there and cause mayhem in the school. There had to have been some mitigating circumstances, socioeconomic trauma, being abused at home, etc, even incent, incestuous relationship why the students are going awry. So if we identify these issues from the front end or at the start of the child's educational journey, it is going to mitigate some of these issues that we face on the back end. But certainly we endorse restorative situation that the Prime Minister is encouraging. My lat, for example. Silvol Mylat Female. Exactly. We want to certainly encourage that because they can be restored, they can be taken back from the brink and make a meaningful contribution in society. So it's not being suspended or expelled and that's the end of the road. Certainly we want to restore them. [00:03:26] Speaker B: One of the things I will tell you, and this is coming from a situation that I saw unfolded before my eyes, I know someone, the parents are working hard. They are upstanding community citizens in their area working and they're sending their three children to school. They have two daughters and a son. And there was an incident that the son was called. The parents were called into the primary school to address an incident, an issue of some kind of bullying and taking off a child's shoes and hiding it right in Port of Spain somewhere. That's happened about last term or something like that. He was telling me when he got to the school, to his surprise, is his child. [00:04:12] Speaker A: Wow. [00:04:12] Speaker B: His child. He said, davey, I watch him, I let him know, I see your mother go deal with you when you reach you. But the point I'm making to you, I heard, I read an article where you talked about it as well that. That some parents are really doing their best. [00:04:26] Speaker A: Of course they are. We have those parents and of course the students is one face at home and one face when they get outside. Listen, they are doing everything possible, putting out all the stops, training them in the way that they should go, doing everything possible. When the child gets outside the influence of the peer pressure, they falter, they fall. And of course it is these circumstances that we need to deal with and see how. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Now you mentioned about the socioeconomic standings and the fact of incestual relationships at home. You know, these are for fractures, fractured homes that you talk about these situations that exist more often than we want to accept it and should be accepted. The single parent vibes, you know, even parents verbally abusing children. [00:05:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:07] Speaker B: Cursing them. I do. Subject to that. Or you will curse that child because you're back, you want to slap the. [00:05:12] Speaker A: Teeth out of the mouth. [00:05:13] Speaker B: So the point I'm making is this on the hand where those parents are doing their best, the police are saying, and they made a pronouncement in the very early onset of this administration that especially the new commission of police, there is a zero tolerance approach to parents who don't want to get a hold of the wayward children. Now there are parents who encourage it, but what about the ones who don't? How does the PTA think police officers and other stakeholders should address those parents of children who are hell bent on causing mayhem? [00:05:42] Speaker A: Got you. And of course we addressed that situation at the interfaith service last Sunday as well because we were concerned at the Commissioner Gavaro when he was installed mid June. He said if you can't talk into parents now, you, if you can't control your children, we will confine them. But as we said before, their parents who are trying really very hard to do that and of course it's not happening to those who are neglecting their responsibility. Certainly let them take full responsibility for their children and let the chips fall where they may. We have no regret at all for the consequences that they face if they are not paying attention. It's your responsibility. You are the first educator. You have responsibility to your child to, to ensure that you train that child properly. [00:06:22] Speaker B: The thing about it is it has reached a stage where teachers getting involved to protect students. [00:06:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:06:33] Speaker B: We had a situation where two female students in the last term got into a very, very heated debate at school. A male teacher was seen on the video part in this fight. How dangerous is it for a male teacher to get involved in a situation where female students are behaving disorderly? [00:06:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And we caution our teachers as well because if at all something had gone, well, left or south, I mean, that teacher could have been, you know, hauled over the coals almost for doing something which she felt was legitimate. Certainly. So we want to caution our teachers as well that when students, especially female teachers, students are involved in infraction, it is better to involve a female teacher in order to assist and to separate the students that come in into those kinds of situations. Because you can now find yourselves into some difficulty which you did not cater for. [00:07:29] Speaker B: One of the things I have a problem with and I, and I endorse it, I say that when I read your article, when you made your statements on the, on that same topic, one caller said to me, but by the time that male teacher who is in the immediate vicinity reaches for assistant. [00:07:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:47] Speaker B: My child could get bus head, get stabbed. My child could end up in ICU and the teacher had to now go, yeah. To get a female security mts. Officer or somebody to intervene. [00:08:01] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:01] Speaker B: But I say it's Prudent. And he should do it. [00:08:04] Speaker A: Right. Exactly. If only to save himself, you know. Yeah. [00:08:08] Speaker B: Me first. [00:08:09] Speaker A: Thank you very much. [00:08:09] Speaker B: Me first. Yeah. [00:08:10] Speaker A: Put the mask on first. Exactly, yeah. [00:08:12] Speaker B: Because. Yep. Because I, I tell them, I said because when you start parting fight. [00:08:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:16] Speaker B: And hands are touching. [00:08:17] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:08:18] Speaker B: And they're behaving, rowdy, unruly. [00:08:21] Speaker A: Exactly, yeah. [00:08:22] Speaker B: Next thing you know, the teacher touched me. [00:08:24] Speaker A: That's correct. That's correct. [00:08:25] Speaker B: And video footage, quick also. [00:08:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:08:29] Speaker B: So, I mean, it's dumb if you do. Damn if you don't. [00:08:32] Speaker A: Thank you. It is. [00:08:33] Speaker B: What is this? What has the association been doing to speak to the faculty on issues of these unruliness with children in the school, as to addressing them? [00:08:43] Speaker A: Well, we are supposed to meet with the Commissioner of Police and of course the Minister of Education. So we've taken it from all fronts. We want to be able to address the Minister of Education and how we can have the matrix, the discipline matrix enhanced because there is an existing discipline matrix in our schools. How we can enhance that. One and two, meet with the Commissioner, newly minted commissioner, how he can also bring to bear certain circumstances and situations where he is going to be able to assist our schools with regards to school indiscipline and school violence. [00:09:16] Speaker B: Then as we go further, feel, as you mentioned, you're having those meetings, Right. What are some of the recommendations you all have put on the table? But before we get to that, to that, that question, let's take a quick phone call. Hello. Good morning. [00:09:26] Speaker C: Yes, David, my wife is a teacher. You've seen us both. If there's a fight going on, you're not going to call her, I assure you. Right. Because she's in, you know, she's. She can't help you at all. And on top of the fact that you're leaving, what is going on to go and get her. Secondly, I take these. Someone who is assaulting another person in the same light that I take from invasion. If somebody is helping the person who is under attack, they have the least concern for the attacker. You can't be beating on someone and I'm trying to get you off. And I have to worry if I touch your breast by mistake, it's better I just take something and clobber you on your head or something. I haven't touched you, you know. But you have to get the person the attack. [00:10:22] Speaker D: Stop. [00:10:23] Speaker C: You can't decide, you know, so what is a male teacher to do? Just walk away and let somebody get killed? I think you have to get in there and deal with it after. Thank you. [00:10:34] Speaker B: All right, your response? [00:10:37] Speaker A: Well, I do, I beg to differ really. Because again, we have to protect our male teachers because we are the ones who are going to say, well, why do you even get involved in the first place when anything happens? Because they're going to hold him over the coals. So we have to protect our male teachers. And I am firmly on that stance to protect our male teachers. [00:10:55] Speaker B: I try to be as neutral as I can. Look at all the pros and cons. And while that caller made a very startling point in terms of by the time I go for help, the child could be dead or seriously injured at the end of the day, if I step in immediately and protect the child. [00:11:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:13] Speaker B: What can happen to me if video footage shows where my hand would have touched the person and then according to the angle, it could look as though I went to do. Listen. [00:11:23] Speaker A: Correct. Yeah, yeah. [00:11:24] Speaker B: I have to endorse. Stay away. Good morning. Hello. [00:11:29] Speaker C: Morning. [00:11:30] Speaker B: Good morning. [00:11:31] Speaker C: Yeah, listen, I, I. When somebody's on that track, right, the first thing is to defend that person. Whether it's male or female, it doesn't matter. We have become so sensitive a nation that we are failing to recognize that somebody could lose their life. Why it is then that we cannot see things in the light that this person's first action is to protect the individual. Why we have to say, look for a female teacher. Just now I'll hear you all saying, if there is a woman doing a crime outside, look, a female police officer. What kind of foolishness are we coming up with? Something is wrong with our thinking. This is about our life and death situation and we have to have some level of tolerance when those things are contained. Thank you. [00:12:21] Speaker B: Your response. Let me take another call quickly. Hello, good morning. Because Good morning. [00:12:26] Speaker C: Hello, Hello. [00:12:28] Speaker D: Good morning. [00:12:28] Speaker B: Good morning. [00:12:30] Speaker D: Yeah, finally getting through that. If you see how society it could be regarding school and school violence and ladies, which are senior teachers, right. Because teacher has a choice to intervene or not intervene, but male. So if you think you went and run and get a female teacher, that female teacher could very well say, I am not getting involved. Because in the same way that you can say a male teacher touch a female student body in the same breath, you could say a female teacher did the same thing. Now, isn't this a good reason and just code to have police presence in. [00:13:10] Speaker C: Some of these schools? [00:13:12] Speaker D: Because that incident with that teacher, the male teacher, right. We saw in the video where the youngest took off her top, right. She's so bad. Take all parts up she ready to. [00:13:23] Speaker C: Right. [00:13:23] Speaker D: That is not a child, that is not a student. That is a beast. If there wasn't video footage to show that that can take off her stuff herself, she could have easily said the Mediterranean, you understand? [00:13:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:38] Speaker D: And so these issues don't just happen at the moment. There's usually ongoing issues that leads to something like that. How do we know the parents who are trying with their children and the parents who are neglecting? There is supposed to be a history when children start being indisciplined in whatever form or fashion. There should be records to show that the parents would have been contacted or were contacted whether they tried to deal with it. But the school. Right. That is how you know who tried and who's trying with their children. [00:14:23] Speaker C: All right. [00:14:24] Speaker D: At the end of the day, I am in full support of police presence in the school because those children don't fight. Like let me say how some of us probably fight in school 20 years ago. These children fighting the kill and the damage and they need to be out of that system. And it fully. Thank you. [00:14:47] Speaker C: All right. [00:14:50] Speaker B: How do you feel as an, as a, the national, as an association, a parent teachers association about students facing the full brunt of the law when it comes to these type of violent attacks against each other? [00:15:03] Speaker A: And we have endorsed it. I have coined the actual name sea suspend, expel, arrest. Because when you look at the school fights, I think the previous caller alluded to it as well. They are out to do damage or even to kill. So that we cannot take the slap on the wrist approach anymore. There has to be a hard line stance taken as it relates to school discipline and school violence and make examples of these students who want to run afoul of school regulations and schools law. There are consequences, Davy, for the action of these, of these students. And they have to realize that if you break the law, if you go or ride the law, you have consequences to face and you face those consequences. So you will think twice before even getting involved in these fights. [00:15:50] Speaker B: Hello. Good morning. Quickly, please. Look on your radio. Look on your radio again. [00:15:56] Speaker C: Any feedback? [00:15:57] Speaker B: No, no, no feedback. Go ahead, quickly. [00:15:59] Speaker C: Okay, so if I'm a teacher school, I am in charge of the school. You is not in charge of the school. You are not me. And anytime you hit me, I just came up. I don't care if you bring your daddy or mommy police, your parents are teacher, right? Somebody with special, they come in school with the nastiness. I want to be bad like Bajan, deal with them. I give them kids like big people I put police in school. [00:16:22] Speaker B: All right, thank you so much. We gotta take a quick break as we get set for the 7 o' clock news, your morning poll question, your financial tip and then we would keep the president a few minutes with us and get some more of his thoughts and more of your phone calls as well. One of the issues I want to talk about is the teacher that slap up a student. I don't know if you saw that video. There was a video circulated. I think it's an. It's an old video, but it may be a year or two old. But the teacher rest some slap boy. They were fighting and he listen. We will talk in the next hour. President of the National Parent Teachers association, good morning again. We're dealing with the issues of school violence. And before we went to that winded break from the news into the various segments this morning, we were talking about teachers reacting to students and some persons are messaging me and saying it's very absurd that a teacher must go and get the help of a female before coming to the assistance of their child. You know. But for those that just joining us, can you remind them of the importance of teachers, male teachers, protecting themselves in instances like this? [00:17:29] Speaker A: Yes, certainly. Because male teachers in particular, if at all they are involved in a fight with female students and they accidentally touch that student in some inappropriate way, that teacher can be called to book for his actions, innocently done, not intended. But of course, in the heat of the fight, in the heat of the infraction that could happen, the teacher could be held liable if the student wants to cry assault, for example. [00:17:58] Speaker B: But the thing about it is the text message are coming in fast and furious this morning. David, that's a foolish thing to run for the female teacher. You're a man and you have to deal with the matter. And all things are assuming that. All things assuming to help those children. You all are wasting your time. They are not interested in education or else they won't be doing the things they're doing. This is a text coming from Barakpur, another text that is saying good morning. Schools are learning centers, not fighting centers. Penalties, zero tolerance, zero college entrance on records, move to special training centers and forfeited of all rights. [00:18:39] Speaker A: That's why we are encouraging the sea the suspend, expel and the rest so that we are going to be able to mitigate what is taking place in our schools. Let the students realize that there are examples in front of them. Students are being arrested when they are involved in infraction and they would want to stay away from that Isn't a. [00:18:57] Speaker B: Person allowed to make a citizen's arrest? So is this text alluding to the fact that the teacher should arrest the student? [00:19:04] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I'm not sure that that is going to be allowed under the circumstances. That's why we have MTS security at our schools as well, so that they are the ones to be able to deal with the matter. And they are both female and male MTS security officers at all our schools or should be at all those schools. [00:19:20] Speaker B: And another text message coming in here. If a male teacher accidentally touches a student's breasts, one has to be foolish to think the teacher was being malicious. [00:19:33] Speaker A: The child could claim that he was. And I mean, who are we to say no? If you see what I'm saying, the child can take the teacher to task exactly for that. For doing that. Suddenly what excuse or I mean what, what rationale would he have to give if she really takes that claim? [00:19:52] Speaker B: Playing devil's advocate. Yes. [00:19:53] Speaker A: Correct. [00:19:54] Speaker B: I was trying to prevent this food up, this violence from erupting into something and escalating. And I was in the process of de. Escalating the situation. So I didn't cop the woman the child's breast. But in trying to party fight, we part of our fights, our palms outwashed. We are stopping and they are pushing on to us. [00:20:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:13] Speaker B: And sometimes depending on how the kick come in, if the teacher hand gets under the leg and trying to stop the student, he can be. [00:20:20] Speaker A: Things could happen there. Yeah, many things could happen there. Yeah. [00:20:23] Speaker B: So I mean the morning Pool question 22 situation. [00:20:27] Speaker A: It is. It is, yeah. [00:20:28] Speaker B: Many students. Any students. Many of the callers this morning and out of the 20 callers, the percentage to me in terms of no, the teacher shouldn't go to get no help deal with it was alarming. 70%. [00:20:43] Speaker A: I was, I. I was, I was. [00:20:45] Speaker B: In shock because when I look at it, if it's your girl child. [00:20:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you very much. How would you feel about that? Yeah. If she's been touched, how would you feel about that? [00:20:54] Speaker B: Or the teacher grab the aggressor from behind. [00:20:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:20:58] Speaker B: And pulling them off. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And anything could happen there. Correct. [00:21:02] Speaker B: Because when he grabbing, remember, all this is in split second decisions. And the student is not calmly standing. [00:21:07] Speaker A: No, no, no. [00:21:08] Speaker B: The student pushing. [00:21:09] Speaker A: That's correct. [00:21:10] Speaker B: And a hand couple breasts touch. Divide the vagina area, a leg area and pulling the student who fighting up. [00:21:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:21:18] Speaker B: And then she said the teacher touched me. [00:21:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:21] Speaker B: Have you gotten complaints that teachers, you know, making sexual advances towards female students? And how does the association I don't. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Have anything so far reported to me with regards to that. So I cannot speak to that in any way. Really. [00:21:34] Speaker B: All right, let's take a phone call quickly. Hello. Good morning. Good morning. [00:21:38] Speaker C: This is why I put here witness that you did not trust up the her breast and and chop it anywhere else. This is why you need a female teacher. I can't stand. But no, something wrong with. [00:21:56] Speaker B: All right, thank you so much. He said that's why you need a female teacher. Hello. Good morning. Good morning. [00:22:02] Speaker D: Hi, Good morning. If that is the idea that my. Is that going to save the female then we should have female lifeguard because a female is in difficulty in the water and you run, you will hold the body and put anywhere to pull up a person. So we need female lifeguard also. That is the idea behind us. Thank you very much. [00:22:25] Speaker B: Well, in all fairness, we do have female lives with lifeguards. We do have female lifeguards and similarly with police and arresting females, a female officer will do the strip and search of a female. You know. Good morning. [00:22:40] Speaker C: All right. [00:22:41] Speaker B: One text I saying to you this morning. This is how the Ministry of Education has removed the power from teachers hands. MTS is to protect the property, not to defuse fights. [00:22:52] Speaker A: I beg to differ. I've been speaking with MTS with regards to that and part of their remit is also to be able to be involved in in school in discipline. [00:23:02] Speaker B: But then what is the association's knowledge on MTS positions there? Is it to protect property? [00:23:08] Speaker A: Only property as well as person as well. If there is an infraction at the school, MTS is supposed to intervene. Those are. That is the information that we have. [00:23:16] Speaker B: Beautiful. [00:23:17] Speaker A: Mts. Yeah. [00:23:18] Speaker B: You cannot touch any student. They can cry assault. [00:23:22] Speaker A: Right. [00:23:22] Speaker B: Hence teachers are powerless. A female teacher should be of size also to intervene. The boards, school security do not. Or school boards. [00:23:35] Speaker A: Or school boards. [00:23:35] Speaker B: So some school boards according they don't have that authority. Let's take this voice note and hear what this had to say. Good morning, Davy. [00:23:42] Speaker A: And good morning to the president, therefore the Parents Teachers Association. I'm listening to the conversation. However, the teachers ought to be trained in something called control tactics. These are what It's a specific type of training for law enforcement personnel so that the same issue that we have where a female can cry or sexual assault, same thing can happen to a police officer. So they are trained in control tactics and homies to control escalating situation or a fraca and control the subjects in a safe manner so that the law enforcement personnel can be Protected. [00:24:38] Speaker B: How does the association feel about teachers taking training in conflict resolution? [00:24:44] Speaker A: Well, I mean, that is a very serious situation there. What we were looking at as well is sometimes in some schools, especially the high risk schools, looking at undercover law enforcement being involved in the school as well. For example, your mathematics teacher, for example, could also be a law enforcement officer so that he's working undercover in order to ensure that he's able to deal with issues like that, when, of course, they do arise. It also would also breed a level of intelligence. Well, because they do have the intelligence powers. So I'm not sure that we want to burden our teachers further because they're already burdened with, you know, being involved in those kinds of activities at all. [00:25:24] Speaker B: I hear that loud and clear. Good morning. Hello. Good morning. [00:25:30] Speaker C: Good morning, David. [00:25:31] Speaker B: Good morning. [00:25:32] Speaker C: My daughter attended the Waterloo High School. During the course of the time that she was there, two students had a fight. One stabbed the other. The student who received the stab was taken to the principal office and made to sit there to wait in the hope that an ambulance will come. And what is the reason? No teacher, they said, had the authority to put them into his car and rush him to the nearby freebord health center. Eventually, the student died. If two students are involved in a fight and you are running to get a female teacher, or you're standing there and hoping that they would stop and this other student either pull out a knife or maybe a protractor point and stab the other one, and the other one dies. What was this? If there's a fight, adults are there. Adults need to get in and separate them, regardless to what. Life and limb protection is more important to me than some student crying foul. And let me put it to you this way. If one student is the aggressor and the other student is virtually helpless, what are you going to do? Are you going to allow the aggressor to virtually plummet the other one, maybe even kill the other one in front of your eyes because you kind of. Because you are male and they are female? No, no, no. I say there's a fracas jumping. You're an adult. Separated. Whatever consequences come out that so be it. Right? But separate them. [00:27:07] Speaker A: It's very easy to see these things when you're on the outside looking in. But of course, if you were on the inside, you will think and act differently. So you have to make sure that you temper those kinds of comments because you are not in the particular situation at the particular point in time. [00:27:21] Speaker B: You see, the thing about it for me is that the Litigation that follows after the investigation. The fact that I am now being accused of being a pedophile, being a pervert, when I was trying to help your daughter or save your daughter from. [00:27:41] Speaker A: Committing a crime and the tarnish of your name as well. [00:27:44] Speaker B: As a result, I am now could be put on suspension pending an investigation as to my motive in intervening to saving a child. You know, so all those things you must consider and I mean it's a lot. Good morning. Whoa, one person is telling me or they removed the message. Okay, that is fine. Oh, let me get it here. Morning, Davy, and good morning to your guests. People have to realize that some of these incidents are premeditated. So these so called children come with the intention to do serious damage and the time it would take to get a female teacher could mean lost life. And people are missing that point. I fully agree to put police in schools. [00:28:33] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:28:35] Speaker B: But given the fact of what we are hearing this morning, what is your thoughts? Are you still resolute that male teachers should abstain from intervening in girls fighting? [00:28:48] Speaker A: Well, when you look at this on your responses that you've been getting there, it really has to be a judgment caller at the particular point in time. So based upon you will see the fight and where the fight is going. The teacher then has to now make a judgment call. Should I now venture in and separate these two students and suffer the consequences if at all anything goes wrong untoward with regards to this particular situation. [00:29:12] Speaker B: Good morning. [00:29:13] Speaker C: Yeah, good morning. [00:29:15] Speaker B: Good morning. [00:29:17] Speaker C: Well, what about, think about this. Suppose I put up police in the school and the police that goes to the school this morning is a male and there is a fight amongst two females. It doesn't. The police have to do the same job that T shirt would be doing and the police could find themselves in the same position where the police be fired and the police will be drawn before a committee and the accused of rape. But that happened to the police officer because that's what we asked him to do, you know, put police in schools. [00:29:49] Speaker B: All right, thank you. [00:29:50] Speaker C: For the male police in the school and two females start fighting when the male police end up in the same position as the teacher, what are we to do with the police? [00:29:59] Speaker A: I would think if police are being put into schools that the commissioner, whoever is in charge for Kuwait school will put a male and a female for a Kuwait school. [00:30:07] Speaker B: I don't anticipate that hypothetical bearing fruit at all. I don't anticipate it, but it's a good point to draw. I mean, you talk in school, we're talking in the wider society when police officers had to engage female suspects. [00:30:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:19] Speaker B: Sometimes they had to arrest the person you help. You see the social media videos. But sometimes your unruly behavior. The police had to get you, of course. [00:30:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:29] Speaker B: Restrain you and then allow a female to patch you down and do the necessaries every morning. I don't know what to say again about this world just going upside down. You tell me. Two children fighting. Yeah. A male teacher, she. [00:30:41] Speaker C: He can't go and pull off the. [00:30:43] Speaker A: Person because it fe touching inappropriately. [00:30:47] Speaker B: Be real now. [00:30:48] Speaker C: Right. [00:30:49] Speaker B: I mean a fight. [00:30:50] Speaker C: Right. [00:30:50] Speaker A: The teachers could pull him off. [00:30:52] Speaker C: Right. [00:30:52] Speaker B: And I don't understand it. You not have a calypso. The law is Anna, you know, so. [00:30:58] Speaker A: I mean, come on. [00:30:59] Speaker B: This is really ridiculous. This world is going so wrong. Thank you. One person says imagine the guilt knowing as an adult you stood by and did nothing and a child died. [00:31:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. That's another viewpoint as well. [00:31:19] Speaker B: Let's take another call quickly. Good morning. Hello. Good morning. [00:31:27] Speaker C: Kind of like half pregnant. Is that I'm pregnant or you're or you're not pregnant. Is either the children need to be protected at all costs or they're not to be protected. They leave. The aggressor could be touching their butt. They could touch with the hell they want to get touched is them who. Who orchestrate this and there's consequence for doing wrong. I don't understand whether I want touch and web it. They need some good cut offs too. Mr. David. [00:31:59] Speaker B: All right, thank you very much, caller. I don't know how much more time you have with us this morning. [00:32:05] Speaker A: Go ahead. [00:32:06] Speaker B: Let's take I, I have some commitments to make very quickly. Let me get to those commitments and we'll continue our discussion. We are loving the fine debate that's happening this morning and we appreciate the fact that you're attacking the messages and not the messengers. Thank you so much. We'll take a break. We're back with more. We are in heavy debates this morning at this time dealing with school violence. And we have Mr. Walter here with us from the National Parent Teachers association. And we are discussing the violence in school, the acceptance and you know what, just to put it in layman terms, the happy feeling we are getting this morning understanding that police officers will be placed in these high risk schools. Schools. Now to me this is. I don't know if the government would eventually seek to get community police involved, train new officers to deal with these conflicts in the schooling and leave the brunt of the force to deal with the wider diaspora. But one person is saying good morning to Davey and the guests. What happens if the male teacher goes for female assistance and the student or students die? Wouldn't the male teacher stay still be held accountable but for a different infraction? What do you as a parent prefer? A touch or death? [00:33:16] Speaker A: Interesting, interesting. Like I said, you know, there are two sides of the coin when it comes to this. And there are pros and cons as well with regards to the intervention of the male teacher when they are female students fighting. And certainly what is coming out here that people are thinking that yes, the teacher must get involved regardless and of course suffer the consequences subsequently, good or bad. [00:33:38] Speaker B: What is the Ministry of Education stance on this when these fights occur? [00:33:42] Speaker A: Well, I mean what their concern is to me separate at any cost really. But I'm saying again, I know that tutors stance on this is that the male teacher should not be involved at all under any circumstances. They want to protect their male teachers. [00:33:57] Speaker B: So tutor is saying no. Yeah, the association of parents. [00:34:02] Speaker A: Yeah, no, we are saying as well, we, we are on the side of the teacher. We want to protect our teachers. [00:34:07] Speaker B: Right. So those two. [00:34:09] Speaker C: Right. [00:34:09] Speaker B: So we have tutor and we have the. The N. PTA Saying the same thing. Because you have to protect us. [00:34:15] Speaker A: Yeah, you must, you must. [00:34:17] Speaker B: I mean we're hearing Davy, one person saying, Davey, I would take the chance and intervene and let the chips fall where they may at the end of it all. School administrators and magistrates are not foolish people and I would think they would make a fair judgment. Funny thing is this, okay. When you. When you. You see these things called smartphones. [00:34:37] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:34:38] Speaker B: When you get angle because an accident happens at a corner. [00:34:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:45] Speaker B: Three of us or four of us see the accident from different. [00:34:48] Speaker C: Different angles. [00:34:48] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. As a different. Different accident as well. [00:34:51] Speaker B: It's a different. Appears to be a different accident. So according to the camera footage by a student who may have taken the footage at that point in time it could be seen. And I'm just playing devil's advocate. The situation was the. Was de. Escalated and the teacher still. [00:35:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:35:07] Speaker B: Seemed to be pushing the girl. [00:35:09] Speaker A: Correct. [00:35:10] Speaker B: But on another angle you would have seen the girl up on the teacher's back. [00:35:14] Speaker A: The evidence is there. [00:35:15] Speaker B: It's subjected to interpretation by those viewing. [00:35:18] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. [00:35:19] Speaker B: And if you're viewing fine now wait, you look like you. [00:35:21] Speaker A: Something there, something there. [00:35:24] Speaker B: Let's take another call quickly. Good morning. [00:35:26] Speaker C: Yes, good morning, baby. Good morning to the guests there. The honorable prime minister in Trinidad and Tobago. And you know, this is a great initiative what we hear in that day that you're all talking about to tackle these school children with the fights and all these things were taking place here because we have seen not only the. The male teacher or the female teacher intervening because this is a very serious thing. Sometimes we see them fights when the school children going out of school. They have their little gangs and they even fighting with police officers because right in the Tunapuna area there where the police was trying to conduct a scene with some of these culture and they're fighting with the police officers. This is a very serious thing. And. And in schools, some of these school children using. They're coming to school with out of plain clothes where they're going and doing serious crime. We had to watch out all these things. Some of these school children being toten drugs and guns and they have even they're using the drugs and guns, the drugs in schools and what they're doing also. Lord Father. It's very slightly doing all kind of funny things. And we have to come to some sort of emergence to deal with this because it could escalate in a serious thing, serious problem. Thank you again, quick as you would. [00:36:47] Speaker B: Thank you again very much for sharing your thoughts. Let me throw one at you there, Walter. What about a situation where a male teacher gets involved with two male students fighting and he's on the scene. He immediately acts to subdue the aggressor and bring him into some form of control and end up being getting stabbed in the process. The male teacher gets injured in the process. [00:37:08] Speaker A: Right, right, right. [00:37:09] Speaker B: What sort of retribution can he get? What will tutor say? What is the NPA NTA going to do? What is the Ministry of Education's viewpoint on the teacher being injured? Yeah, because that's not part of his job. [00:37:21] Speaker A: No, exactly. [00:37:22] Speaker B: But he. He gets injured while. Or. Or if it was fatal. [00:37:28] Speaker A: Right, yeah. [00:37:29] Speaker B: What is the. [00:37:30] Speaker A: I mean. And I'm hoping that these are hypothetical cases there and that they don't really happen in reality. But it is really unfortunate if at all that would happen. We are trying to see how best, even before these situations arise, we can deal with them so that they don't happen at all. I mean, I'm really, really not even sure how to be able to handle that. It would be really an unfortunate situation because I believe that the teacher would have to take some kind of. You'd want to see this students injure themselves or even become fatal. So the teacher must get involved in that particular instance situation. It would be unfortunate as a result of him intervening. He has to Suffer some injury or damage or as you said, even fatal. [00:38:09] Speaker B: Wow. And that. And, and this, this situation sounds like only if and when it happens, we will address it. There's nothing in place to even think about those things and set boundaries and barriers. [00:38:21] Speaker A: Yeah. You want to be proactive now you have to be proactive. [00:38:24] Speaker B: That's the case we had to come out of the reactive notion that we have been emanating existing in for years. [00:38:33] Speaker A: Devi, at the end of the day, if a male teacher intervening in a fight with two female students is cause for concern where they may, they may think in their mind that they have to stay out of this thing because allegation may come up, then I think we need to change the laws. The laws need to be changing. These female students attacking each other could often lead to something even worse. Somebody could be permanently damaged. And I think we need to, you know, insulate our male teachers. They have a responsibility too. Yeah. And the responsibility is to also break down the fight, pacify the situation, and make sure that the students, both of them, you know, remain unharmed. [00:39:17] Speaker C: Good morning, Davy and your guests. Let me say that I am passing in the road near a river. [00:39:27] Speaker B: And. [00:39:28] Speaker C: There are some school students, girls, passing in that road, and one of the girls fall into that river. Should I stand up and watch or should I jump in that river to assist that girl? What should I do? If I assist that girl, I may have to hold her in different places to bring her out. Would I be charged for sexual assault? Think about it. [00:40:02] Speaker B: The sexual assault charge will only come if somebody states a claim against you. [00:40:08] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:40:08] Speaker B: Police can't just charge you for certain things just like that. Even if people might say, well, if you're breaking somebody house, the people in charge here, the police have evidence that you did it. [00:40:17] Speaker A: Correct. [00:40:17] Speaker B: So if you save the person's life. [00:40:20] Speaker A: Out of a river, out of the river, I don't think you are eternally grateful to that person. You know, eternally grateful is my life here. [00:40:28] Speaker B: Rescue. [00:40:29] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:40:30] Speaker B: Another one says, this is not the. The teacher's job. The laws are designed to protect minors and persecute teachers. [00:40:40] Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. [00:40:41] Speaker B: Hello. Good morning. [00:40:43] Speaker C: Good morning. I believe one time you start a fight, you change that environment from being one of a teaching environment to one of a possible crime scene. And therefore, whatever action is necessary at that point in time to prevent what is happening should take place. So I don't think that a male teacher should be looked at that being a teaching environment. Okay. [00:41:09] Speaker A: Basically, the student, especially the aggressor, trying to revenge, as it were. From the intervening teacher. Male teacher could press charges. Huh? Yeah. And that is the concern that we have. [00:41:23] Speaker B: People might say this debate this morning is nonsensical because you're talking about saving children. But why is it that vigilante law does not exist and police caution you against vigilante justice because you being the victim. There's a very thin line with you now being a perpetrator and being charged, being on the wrong side. Because if you hold the victim. [00:41:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:50] Speaker B: For breaking in or attempting to rob a gas station, and the villagers come and they grab him, they catch him. [00:41:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And deal with him. [00:41:58] Speaker B: And they hit him some blows and the man dies. [00:42:03] Speaker A: That's it for you. Exactly, exactly. [00:42:04] Speaker B: You went from being a victim. So it's a very, very thin line. [00:42:11] Speaker A: What I'm telling you is that catch 22 situation that we're dealing with, definitely. [00:42:14] Speaker B: One person is saying, davey and your guest also look at the size of some of these female teachers. They are so tiny. Do you really think they can stop some serious fight between female students? She might possibly be the one getting injured or killed. [00:42:26] Speaker A: Please. Exactly the process. Yeah, it's quite possible. [00:42:29] Speaker B: The video. Let's talk quickly. [00:42:32] Speaker A: Yeah, certainly hopeful. Punishment is banned. We are not supposed to do punishment regards to our students. Exactly. [00:42:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:42:41] Speaker A: So this teacher is out of order, really, to even venture into hitting the male students. You know what I'm saying? So let me ask you, encouraged. [00:42:51] Speaker B: Let me. Let me put the situation. We got the part of the video where the teacher register at least three slaps. [00:42:57] Speaker A: Right. [00:42:58] Speaker B: 22. [00:43:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:43:01] Speaker B: He hit them. What if the student had assaulted the teacher first? [00:43:07] Speaker A: Well, again, she means. So he's now retaliating with regards to that. [00:43:12] Speaker B: And I say this to you to take your son Fernando with the teacher who was breaking up, stopping a fight and became the victim when the student unleashed some licks on him. [00:43:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:43:23] Speaker B: And then you see them students fighting like, man. Yeah, yeah. So you as a grown man, you. [00:43:28] Speaker A: Have to defend yourself as well. You must defend yourself. [00:43:30] Speaker B: But this is a minor. [00:43:32] Speaker A: But regardless, the miner attacked you. You know, I'm not sure that the teacher would have done the first attack. So he was retaliating based upon the fact that he was, you know, hit first. [00:43:44] Speaker B: Should we frown upon a teacher if a student hits the teacher in the. In the. In the. In the involvement of trying to separate this fight. [00:43:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:52] Speaker B: And the student coughed the teacher in the back of his head or hit him a slap. [00:43:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:56] Speaker B: Should the teacher turn the other cheek and just try to restrain or. Or return Force with force. [00:44:02] Speaker A: Exactly. Because you need to now make sure and temper what is going on there and restrain, to use your words, restrain the child. I'm not sure that. Okay, fine, behave yourself is going to help at that point in time. You have to return the same type of force as well to restrain the students, the child, certainly. [00:44:19] Speaker B: So I wonder how parents will feel. We have about 12 minutes before we wrap the interview this morning. Let me get your calls on it very quickly. Your child involved in a fraca. Your child, the teacher tries to stop the fight. Your child assaults the teacher and the teacher unleashes some blows on your child in defense. In defense. He registers some slap on your child in, in the attempt to restrain him. How would you view that? Hello. Good morning. [00:44:49] Speaker C: Why a lot of children is getting hidden fights because the children know that they should change that law immediately. Yeah. Save lives. Them children know. All right, all right. [00:45:08] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Thank you. [00:45:10] Speaker C: Hi. Morning, Davy calling from Pitty Valley. A couple decades ago, I was about 21, I just came out of just prior to going to university teaching at Odigo Martin Secondary School. I was teaching forms 1, 2 and 3. A third year girl came into my class during class teaching us a form two class and pick a fight with another girl who apparently had some kind of disagreement with her brother. Well, if I turn physical buttons burst and all kind of thing. So much so I tried to party, fight. I wasn't so big either. I was young and I got coughing my mouth. I had to take one student and pelt across the room and pull the other one across. And eventually another teacher came to my assistance. But that is what it was at the time. And in those days at that particular school, discipline was high priority. I mean, I guess until the dean, parents are calling, they say they're sorry, etc. Etc. All right. But that is it, that is the situation now if that was to happen. [00:46:19] Speaker A: In these days, somebody might pull out. [00:46:22] Speaker C: Something, I might have gotten stabbed or the parents come looking for me. [00:46:26] Speaker A: Unfortunately, really, really, really sad situation there. [00:46:30] Speaker B: I have to read this text for you this morning. [00:46:32] Speaker A: Sure. [00:46:32] Speaker B: Good morning, Davey. And your guest. I, I, I, I can't quite grasp, grasp why this is an issue. Isn't the safety and well being of everyone in this school of paramount importance? Here in Germantown, Maryland, the county police, a county police officer is assigned to every high school in the county and no consideration is given to whether that individual is a male or female. It all depends on the police officer's tour of duty for that week. I spoke to One of the officers. Officers sometime back, who was once one of my students. And she noted that if the matter comes unmanageable, she will call for backup and there will be more than one officer responding in quick succession. Their presence is similar to that of a safety officer but with greater law enforcement power. I do not see it as an issue. [00:47:31] Speaker A: Got you. That's why we have to wait and see what comes out of these high risk schools and the intervention of the law enforcement in those high risk schools as well. [00:47:39] Speaker B: Somebody is now asking, in the heat of the moment, the teacher will react with a cough or slap. Will he be charged with assault? [00:47:45] Speaker A: Wow. It's not easy, you know. So complex, huh? [00:47:50] Speaker B: It is. [00:47:51] Speaker A: It is a complex situation. [00:47:53] Speaker B: At the end of the day, teachers are not trained to deal with combat situations. The initiative for police presence in violent schools is great, but be warned, this is just a band aid to the issue. The system needs to be adjusted so that these rotten apple students are removed from the public education system and moved to a correctional school facility. [00:48:18] Speaker A: Restoration. [00:48:19] Speaker B: Restoration. We spoke about that at length this morning. [00:48:23] Speaker C: Good morning. [00:48:23] Speaker A: Hear this one. There was a teacher in a particular school. [00:48:27] Speaker C: True story. [00:48:30] Speaker A: He was walking the corridor, there was a fight between two girls. He intervened and somehow he ended up on the wrong side of it. This man served 33 and a third years in the service. Waiting one year for retirement each. He lost his job. Okay. Tough, tough. I had the experience of parting a fight and getting cough in my throat. Two boys and there was nothing about compensation or anything like that. So the reality is that only when you are there. Correct. [00:49:12] Speaker C: You understand? Yeah. [00:49:14] Speaker A: And you choose not to for self preservation. Yeah. [00:49:18] Speaker C: Okay. [00:49:20] Speaker A: Self preservation. Because you have a family to return to. [00:49:27] Speaker B: Money in the plane. [00:49:28] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:49:28] Speaker B: What does it tell you to do before your baby? [00:49:31] Speaker A: Boat yourself first. You know, put your mask on first. [00:49:34] Speaker B: The plane, the mask deploys. [00:49:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:36] Speaker B: We lost carbon pressure. Oxygen is depleting. You have your infants next to you, Put on your mask first, then assist your children and anybody else you can. Because if you can't, take care of yourself, nobody else. [00:49:52] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:49:53] Speaker B: So this morning it has been heavily debated. I thank you. [00:49:57] Speaker A: My pleasure. [00:49:58] Speaker B: For staying on with us. And I can tell you this is not a conversation that will rest easily. [00:50:04] Speaker A: And would not end. [00:50:04] Speaker B: It's not. Unless we get a grapple on school. School violence in a meaningful way, we are going to see this on earth continuously before us. And the thing is, I'm not on defense. And as much as I want to be neutral, exploring all circumstances and all the hypotheticals, we Got this morning. I am erring on the side of caution. [00:50:28] Speaker A: Correct. Correct. Yeah, I agree with you fully on that. [00:50:30] Speaker B: I am erring on the side of caution. [00:50:33] Speaker A: Like the last. It's all about self preservation. Like the last call. I said fully agree. Self preservation. [00:50:38] Speaker B: You cuffed me in my throat. [00:50:39] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [00:50:41] Speaker B: What about if you lick out one of my permanent tooth? [00:50:43] Speaker A: Ah, exactly. What's gonna happen? Yeah. [00:50:45] Speaker B: Oh, I get a damage retina in my eye where you break my nose bridge. [00:50:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Correct. Correct. Correct. [00:50:55] Speaker B: And as the 33 and a half years, one year to retirement and you lose because you intervene in a fight to protect the students and end up in the wrong side of the litigation. [00:51:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you have lost everything. [00:51:08] Speaker B: Everything. [00:51:09] Speaker A: Everything. [00:51:09] Speaker B: Your character, your name. Stained people in the village in your area watching you as a pedophile. Yeah, but they say local parents are Tostiman. [00:51:17] Speaker A: That's correct. Exactly. Exactly. [00:51:19] Speaker B: Folks, as Mr. Stewart and myself will agree this morning. [00:51:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:24] Speaker B: Self preservation. [00:51:26] Speaker A: Correct. That's correct. [00:51:27] Speaker B: You would make a split second decision in the instant this is before you. But self preservation is the order. [00:51:35] Speaker A: Correct? Correct. Yeah. [00:51:36] Speaker B: Mr. Walter, thank you so much for spending this hour with us. [00:51:39] Speaker A: Anytime. My pleasure. Anytime. [00:51:40] Speaker B: I know you came in very early on CNC3 and then we steal you quickly. Oh, boy. Yeah, we. We borrow you. We borrow you. You just. You had to pass downstairs anyway. [00:51:49] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:51:50] Speaker B: You was on your way. Five minutes. [00:51:53] Speaker A: My pleasure. Anytime. [00:51:54] Speaker B: Thank you so much. [00:51:55] Speaker A: All the best. Take care now. [00:51:56] Speaker B: Yes, man. [00:51:57] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.