Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio freedom 106.5 said, you've got an interview for you. At this point in time, it's my pleasure to welcome to our program to speak on the passing of a local media icon recently. Let's welcome to our show this morning, retired multimedia journalist Tony Fraser. Mr. Fraser, good morning to you and welcome to our program.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Yes, thanks for the invitation. Always good to speak about great people. Jones P. Madero was one of them.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. So his name, he's iconic and not just for persons within the media who had the opportunity to work alongside him and to work in an industry that he had a great role in shaping, but also to a nation that at one point in time looked up to him and revered him because of the role that he played in our society. Let's begin by giving you the opportunity to tell us about your experience, your interactions with this individual called Jones P. Madera.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Well, Jones hired me at Trinidad and Tobago Television sometime in the mid-1980s. What's that, almost 40 years ago. And he hired me on the basis of really nothing. I hadn't done too much at that point in time. Worked for a couple of radio stations and wrote a couple of things and so on. Jones hired me on that basis. He had faith and that was one great capacity of his, to reach out to young reporters, young journalists, aspiring journalists, and assist them and guide them along the road. And I was not alone in that respect. There was, there was still is a whole generation of young reporters who worked under Jones in terms of the guiding capacities that he had to lead them in. So, and in that respect, let me make the point that while Jones was the boss, Jones was never the boss in that he never had a bossy attitude to anyone. His was one of assisting and helping when there was a need for it. But I certainly can indicate that I never, Jones never showed a bossy nature to me. It was one of help and assistance and development as we went along.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: Yeah, that mentorship role was a vital role in preparing persons for the rigors that come with a profession in the media. Many people, they're exposed to the media and what the media provides, but not many people understand what goes into getting the job done and how demanding the profession can be and what it takes to be successful in a field like this. This is not accounts, these are not these other types of jobs where you have that type of repetition every single day as to how you do things. It's always something new and you're confronted with a Different challenge. And the mentorship that persons like Jones P. Madera played was vital.
Let's speak about what you think his. His role was in shaping the media as we know it or as it was back then and as we know it today.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Well, let me tell you, one of Jones strongest capacities was his ability to produce television and radio programs. Not talking heads, but visuals of people interacting with other people and also on television, with all of the pictures and sound, same thing on radio, without the pictures, of course. And Jones was really the absolute master of producing great television and radio programs, reaching out and in the process, and in the process telling stories about events, about people, about how things were fluctuating into the future and so on. And Jones was really good at that. I must say, one of the things that Jones did very well, and this was before the era when political parties did not have the kind of funds that they have today so they can mount these major conventions and platforms and spend millions of dollars, etc. On. Ed Jones from Trinidad and Tobago Television and also from Radio Trinidad covered elections campaigns, the major. The major campaigns, the major meetings from the basis of a journalistic point of view, in that he had panels of people who would talk about the issues we would cover the main politicians making their statements. But there was always an analyst there to say what. Whether or not what the individual performer said had substance or did not have substance, had flaws, etc. Etc. Of course, money came in in abundance and he ended. And that ended that era of great journalistic work both in terms of radio and television. Radio Trinidad under the leadership of Neil Giuseppe, who of course was a colleague, a close colleague of Jones is. Well, I don't know how the tenses go. Deal is very much alive. But Jones's past, they work together at Radio Trinidad and Tobago and produce great radio programs, piercing and looking at what was happening with the political parties and bringing information and elucidation to potential voters.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: It's undeniable the profound impact that persons like Jones P. Madera has had on the local media landscape. Because I don't want to say those were the formative years, but those were the years that saw a cadre of media professionals coming out that also had a great role in shaping what the media is.
Back then there was only one way to do the job and that was the right way.
You would not compromise on the nuts and bolts to make sure that you got it right because there was this sense of duty, this sense of responsibility to your listener, to your viewer, to the nation that you had to get it right.
For the obvious reason. And there was, and I'm going out on a limit to say that the level of respect that, that that existed for the media and media personnel back then may not necessarily be the same that we have today. And that could be for a variety of reasons, the advent of social media and a number of other things that have influenced how people view traditional media and how people view persons within the media.
Do you think that. I'm not sure when your last conversation would have been with Jones P. Madera, but did you have conversations with him about the direction that the media has gone in and whether or not he was satisfied?
[00:07:50] Speaker B: Yeah, we talked about that. And you know, it's kind of public knowledge that a lot of us from the era before, and perhaps this is a natural kind of progression that we always think, think that the era before was better than the present era. And Jones had his misgivings about the present era, but he was not super critical of young reporters. He was more, if he had met anyone, if he spoke to anyone, he was always encouraging and seeing how it should be done rather than how it was done. So he wasn't, he wasn't scasing about the young generation. But I, I just want to, to say one thing here, that when we're talking about the era of Jones Madera, we usually talk about the television era of the say, 80s and, and so on, but before that, and we always have to recognize those who went before in the, in the late 60s and early 70s, Jones was a part of a team of radio broadcasters at 610 radio and they produce a.
Makers of the time, they were interviewing people, producing productions, etc. Etc. And there was a cadre of, of journalists. In fact, Jones might have been the, the most junior of the lot. You're talking about Alfred Agito, you're talking about Leo De Leon, Dick Henderson, Raul Panton and those people who were producing programs, radio programs, discussion programs, current affairs programs, before the present, long before the present era, and even the era between the 80s and up till 2010, 2015 kind of thing. So we must know that we have, we didn't, we didn't invent it.
Jones did not invent it. Jones built on, on what had gone before. And one of the greatest strengths of Jones was his vision of the Caribbean.
He was never isolated to Trinidad and Tobago. He understood that Trinidad and tobago by itself, a.in the, in the Caribbean was nothing compared to what the possibilities were as a Caribbean region. And of course, he worked in that forum. He worked for the cbu. He worked in Guyana out of the CARICOM Secretariat, producing radio programs which were spread across the region. And one of his major, major productions was he had two programs. He produced two programs, initiated those programs called CARIB Vision and CARIB Scope, in which television from across the region, the stories of people, the stories of politics and government and so on, were captured on a daily basis. And my friend, this, that was before the era of digital when you could push a button. We had to transport the tapes via a LIAT aircraft. We were speeding up to the airport to transport the news of the last evening so it could be spread across the region. And CBUZEN transmitted those programs to the rest of the Caribbean. That was one of Jones major contributions.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: I had interactions with Mr. Madeira and it was always enlightening to speak to him because there was always something positive that he would inject into the conversation one way or the other, regardless of what it is you spoke to him about. And you mentioned the name Dick Henderson.
I started my career under his wing because when I went to the station that he was at, it was for music, a little DJ position and that kind of thing. But there was an interview that you had to do on air. And I remember that when the interview ended, the phone rang and Mr. Henderson picked. Well, was on the line and he wanted to see me on Monday morning. And he encouraged. He was such an enabling individual. And that is one of the things that you found with persons from the Jones P. Madera era. They were so enabling. And Mr. Henderson said to me that, you know, he wanted me to start with the music, but he coming up soon, there's going to be an opening in the news. And because of the things that I was saying during my interview, he thought that I should think about it. He said, news is not sexy. News is not the one that many people gravitate to because the DJs are the ones who get all the exposure and attention and everything else. But he said that news could be a very, very rewarding career. And I never looked back.
And Mr. Henderson was the kind of individual who, when I finished the 7 o'clock news on the morning and I got back to my desk, my phone would ring and Mr. Henderson would be on the line and he would. He would tell me, well, you see what? I like this. I like that approach. Do more of this. I ain't too sure about that. And it was always about getting you to do your best to the point where you wanted to excel, to prove to them that you had what it takes. That you could get the job done and that you could do it according to their standards. And everyone that I've spoken to who had any interaction with Jones, P. Madera and others from his time, they have that same approach and they passed it on to the people under them as well.
And the media was better for it. At this point in time in our country, there's a love hate relationship with the media and citizens. Not all, but some to the point where if you look at what transpires on social media and everything else, it really makes you shake your head when you see some of the comments that people are making about the media today in our society, with some of the criticism that is leveled against the media and people talk about being bought out and everything else. Do you believe some of this criticism is justified or is it just another page that we have to deal with?
[00:14:05] Speaker B: Well, people see their reality. And if people of today, like in any age, determine that the media are not, as an institution, not satisfying the needs for information and education and entertainment and all of those things, and they are, you know, justified in making their own judgments. Just let me say one thing which harks back to what you were saying previously. It is not well known and appreciated, but Jones was also something of a dj.
Very early in his career he had a program at Radio Trinidad which played music, music. And then he also had a television program called Sateen Session. Long before your time, my friend. Television with Dave Elcock. And they played music of the times, young people and so on. So Jones was an all rounder. He had a lot of capacity. He had an appreciation for life. And that is what journalism is all about in parts. You have to understand this society and you have to reach out to the entire needs for information and entertainment. And Jones was very adapt at all of that.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: I had asked him a couple years ago to come onto the show because I wanted to speak about, speak to him about his life experience.
Jones P. Madera had the opportunity to grow with the nation, to actually live through some of the historic elements that make Trinidad and Tobago what Trinidad and Tobago is. To see our people move from one era to another. Our politics are developed, development along so many different lines. But for some strange reason, we just were never able to make it happen.
And conversations like those are the ones that resonate, I think, more than anything else, because it speaks to what someone has lived. In your conversations with him and with others, what was his view of where we are as a people?
Did he think we were achieving our potential or, or other things? He thought that we didn't do right or we could have done better. Some of the things that he thought we did exceptionally well.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: Well, with anyone who spent his lifetime, his working life, in media information. And Jones is to be remembered also as somebody who worked as an information or communication specialist with Karek, in one instance in the height in the peak of the HIV and AIDS virus. And he also worked with the judiciary at one point in time, spreading information. In all of those roles, Jones obviously had notions of how the nation was moving and so on. But Jones was never an opinionated, driven person. His was to reflect information in the society. And he didn't conclude on good and bad, you know, in the kind of sense that we normally say, well, this is wrong and that is wrong, and so on. Jones focus was on bringing information and education, if you like, to people, displaying the society and the people of the society in the ways that we live and so on. And he didn't draw conclusions easily, of course, in private conversations he would express his views and so on, and they were private and private conversations. But Jones's focus was on giving information and opening up vistas of information and possibilities for his audiences.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: For those of you who may have joined us midway to our conversation, we're speaking with retired multimedia journalist Tony Fraser on the life of Joan P. Madeira. If you'd like to join the conversation, feel free to give us a call on 625-2257. One of what, I don't know if it's. It's. It's right to say. This is probably one of the most defining moments for him. One of the most iconic moments when it comes to images is Jones P. Madeira sitting next to Imam Yassin Abubakar during the 1990 attempted couple. What conversations did you have with him about that, and what were his views about his role to the nation at that point in time?
[00:18:39] Speaker B: Well, you know, probably under a year ago, I had a conversation with Jones and I wrote, I am not completely retired. Okay, I'm retired. I'm retired from running down news stories, but I'm very much part of the media. And one of the things that Jones said very clearly that his most significant role in media had to do with that event of July 27, 1990. And the role that Jones played in all of that was to get the two sides, one being the army colonel Joseph Seodor and Abu Bakr, talking about possibilities to bring an end to the conflict without mass bloodshed. Because if it had come to that, we would still be crying over the loss of a whole lot of People. And what he did was to open up an information channel between the army and Abu Bakr. And eventually there's a whole lot of detail inside there which is not important at this point in time. The important thing was the outcome. And Jones opened that channel of information and discussion between the two, and out of it came the peaceful settlement of that particular part of the insurgents in Trinidad and Tobago television. He considered that to be his greatest, most important contribution to the nation.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: Yeah, and it definitely was at that point in time, a defining moment.
And that is when one could tell, looking back at some of the images from that point in time, that is when your true professionalism comes true.
It shines through those very, very challenging moments because you're talking possible life and death.
It's a situation that not many people find themselves having to confront. And within that space, you have to do your job, which is in essence, what. What he was doing. He was doing his job and. But with a greater sense of purpose. And the greater sense of purpose then was about treating with a situation that could go horribly wrong or as it did, we see turn out the way that it did. Do you think that as a nation we, I don't want to say, pay respects or rather acknowledge or continue to be mindful of the contributions of persons like Jones P. Madera and do we need to do more about. Do we need to teach our citizens more about persons like them and like others who've done such a great job in making us who we are?
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Undoubtedly we have not done sufficient in terms of the real contributors of this nation. I remember Explainer Calypsonian, I think it was after Heasley Crawford's gold medal, he sang a song about we should not treat our heroes like that.
And that was really gospel coming from the Calypso. Yes. We don't recognize sufficiently. A part of it is what Jones attempted to do to bring information and education to the society in a manner that people could understand what the contribution of XYZ would be. Often we are so occupied with, you know, narrow political chatting. You listen to the radio you hear on television, you. You see in the newspapers. It's about, you know, political fig who are clashing with each other, are not really advancing the country. Whereas people who have made a significant contribution, their lives and their stories have not been told. I was very happy eight, nine months ago, I don't remember exactly, to have written something of the story of Jones Madera. I was attempting to get his full life, but I probably tried too late in that respect. But yes, we do not treat our heroes, our real heroes, as heroes. Instead, we are occupied with political figures running up and down and just agitating the nation.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Yeah. I find that to be such an indictment against us as a people, and I've raised it in respect of several sectors of our society. One of those is the labor movement. We have an entire Labor Day, a number of activities, and if you ask young people, even some mature people, what caused all of this? Well, who are some of the players that were involved in the labor movement that resulted in some of the rights that you enjoy and experience today? They can't tell you.
And that's sad because we are not teaching our people why they need to be patriotic, why they need to remember these individuals who've done so much for us. And I think we're poorer for it as a nation. Once there's life, there's hope. Because I've had this conversation with a number of people before. Somebody was trying to get through online. I'm sorry that I missed the call. He could try us back on 625-2257. As we end our conversation here this morning, Mr. Frazier, if I were to say to you, having worked with Jones P. Madera, having been involved in the industry alongside him and so on to you, what is. If I say, if I ask, well, what is one thing you'll always remember about him, what would that be?
[00:24:46] Speaker B: Is encourage voters to grow and develop and meet their full capacity. And the second thing would be his ability to produce radio and television programs of great information and insight into the life of Trinidad and Tobago and the things that we were currently at that point in time, grappling with.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Mr. Fraser, this. We're gonna have to leave our conversation here this morning. I want to thank you for being with us because this is a conversation that I've wanted to have for quite some time. To have quite some time, not just necessarily focusing on Jones P. Madera, but focusing on. I don't want to use. Well, is the word icon the right word? I think so. Because of some of these people and how huge their contribution has been. I hope that moving forward we can have some more and that I can tap into your wealth of experience.
You're living through some of the things that we've experienced as a people so that those younger ones among us, people who might have forgotten some of these things, things can be remembered or be educated about who we are and why we are in some of these situations that we are. Thank you so much for being with us here this morning.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Thank you for chatting with me. Take care.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
