Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio freedom 106.5 we shift gears just a bit and at this point in time we welcome to our studios to speak to us about the PSA's internal elections as former PSA General Secretary Presidential candidate representing the PSA United Sentinels. Let's welcome to our program. So Nixon Callender, good morning to you.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Good morning, good morning. Good morning to you. Good morning to the national listenership and especially the PSA members.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: It's nice to have you with us here this morning. You know usually when we speak or when the nation hears about the PSA elections, there's always some kind of bacchanal and I say that not necessarily they cast as Persians, but that's how people. Some people, that's the impression some people get. But I'm assuming it's because of the passion that's associated with the campaigning and some of the issues that rear their heads and all those kinds of things. You've been around for a pretty long period of time. Yes, I remember my television days. We would be doing all of these interviews and everything else. And the PSA is an institution when it comes to the local labor fraternity.
Before we get into the nitty gritty of the PSA United Sentinels on run all those, let's tell people, these internal elections, when are they going to be held? What are the positions up for grabs?
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Okay, the internal elections or the executive elections of the PSA scheduled to take place on Monday 10th March 2025 between the hours of 7am and 4:30pm the positions that are up four for elections are the post of President, First VP, Second Vice President, General Secretary, Deputy General Secretary, Treasurer, four, sorry, five industrial relations officers and two trustees. It's a 13 member executive.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's definitely pretty important to the day to day affairs of the trade union.
What are some of the issues that should be important? Because you have a number of people who will be listening in to us PSA members who will be able to cast a vote and all those things. What are some of the things that they should be considering or evaluating as they determine to themselves? Well, who should I vote for?
[00:02:35] Speaker B: Well firstly the membership has to look at the situation that we are in now. We are without enhanced terms and conditions since 2013. Our last salary and terms and conditions enhancements, true collective bargaining was since 2013. So we are on 2013 terms and conditions in 2025.
Other issues include the restructuring of the Water and Sewage Authority, the coming on stream of the TTRA and the transition of the BIR on customs workers. We also have the issue of the job evaluation exercise that has been stalled simply because of bad leadership or poor leadership by the psa. There are a number of issues. We have members within the RHA that has not gotten collective bargaining returning to their terms and conditions since the advent of the RHA's. So we are in a dire constraints here. We have matters lingering in the industrial court at the special tribunal of the industrial Court. We have matters lingering at the service commissions where persons have their tribunals going on or has been stalled because of poor representation.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: I don't know how widespread this opinion might be but it's been expressed on the program before that the trade union movement under this administration I don't want to use the term has been emasculated but is definitely on the back foot for whatever reason that seems to be and you're talking about a trade negotiation spanning what, 10, 11 years. That's a pretty long period of time.
The the PSA is charged with the responsibility of overseeing the interests of a wide cross section of our society. And when you spoke about some of the negotiations wasa and you spoke about some of the others it tells you the public service nurses and so on. It tells you how far the reach of the PSA is what would have contributed to to the situation that exists at this point in time where you have this delay. Oh, oh, oh, what's the right term to use Lack of resolution to many of these matters. What as we say what caused that?
[00:05:11] Speaker B: It's simply bad leadership and also individuals political ambitions. I want to tell the listenership here straight I want to get straight to the core with that. The PSA has become a political tool of mainstream politics. I have said it since in 2013 when I first ran up for the office of president with a team I had separated myself from the executive. I was an incumbent and I chose not to support the leadership at that time or the leader at that time. And I warned the membership when I launched my campaign that the PSA leadership has become a political tool of the political master. And I hope Satish and I desperately hoped that my assessment was wrong. What you found happening in 20 as the elections were over in 2013 what you found was the PSA president becoming a political leader, registered a political party, ran for office as an independent in the tha at national elections, got into the tha, became the deputy Chief secretary and all of this happened satish within a period of time when not only myself but many dissenting voices were telling the membership, hey, look at what is going on with the psa. The PSA became actually a political arm of mainstream politics. But Satish, it didn't stop there.
All during that time our negotiations was just vanquishing. We had wage negotiations or proposals for the period 2014 to 2016 being submitted to the CPA. In 2015. We then in 2018 had the then president just suddenly pull from like a rabbit out of the hat, a one pager calling it living wage and then change the whole dynamics in between when negotiations were going on and you had all the antics.
But it is very ironic that the person who was appointed as president, which is Leroy Batiste, he was right there alongside when all these things were happening. He and several other, several other of the executive, especially the first Vice president who is right now vying for the office of President along with others.
I am saying this is about the way forward. The way forward is about public officers recognizing that they are the largest of the bargaining unit within the psc. It's about public or, well, we would want to call them public servants, civil servants, public officers of the Civil service, nib, adb, Blind Welfare Association, Lottery Control Board, Cocoa and Coffee Board, the stat, authorities, authorities, you name it, and even wasa. Because wasa, while all this was going on in the psa, guess what? We still have contract officers in wasa. They're vanquishing without having their positions being regularized. We still have appointments and promotions in the Public Service Commission where our members, Satish, have to take lawyer, have to take their own monies and pay lawyer instead of going to the PSA because of lack of interest or what you would say, lack of confidence.
We didn't just arrive here, we didn't just arrive here. But a fundamental issue that we can pinpoint during all of this is that elections, after elections in the psa, public officers refuse to come out and take an interest of what is going on in their union.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: Well, that's reflective of wider society. And I'll tell you why I say that because what we have is, is less and less engagement from the national community.
Don't talk about local government elections. That's as minuscule participation as you can get. And general elections, people are saying that, you know, this could be, this election will be the biggest. And I disagree with them because when you speak to people, people are getting more and more and more despondent. They just don't feel the need to get involved for whatever reason. When you ask them, well, why not? Some people say, well, I don't think it makes a difference. Some people think they actually say, well, I don't think the people who run in for office really care.
And when you get those kinds of comments and this lack of engagement, it does not augur well for any organization. When it comes to politics and labor, one could argue that labor and politics have always gone hand in hand. And let's look at the psa, for example. Who was more political than Jennifer Batiste Primus when she ran the psa and if I remember correctly, the biggest criticism against Jennifer, but his premise at the point in time was when she wanted to support the TTRA under Patrick Manning administration. That's when Watson Duke swooped in and described the whole thing as political. And then we had the whole election. Everything went wrong or went right, depending on which side of defense you sat. And Labour has always dabbled in politics, that it would have beauty right now. Ansel Roger, in some kind of alliance with the United National Congress, you had Phaeton or whichever one of them it was with the FAIS about accord. So labor over the years has always been on the sidelines of politicians. But from what you're suggesting to me, the, the individualistic nature of labor has, has been compromised too much.
Is it a situation now where labor can redeem itself? Because if I open the phone lines now and I ask people what they think about the labour movement, people will call and say, well, the labour movement is as political as you can get.
And I don't think Labour leaders have anybody to hold or trade unions have anybody to hold accountable for that but themselves. So can labor really convince the population that, hey, what's going on? Now you see them politicians and yeah, we had a deal with them, you know, but as an arm length and we maintain our individuality, is that something that can be achievable? As the pendulum swung too far in one direction, I want to, I want.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: To correct some things there. That is some misconceptions. I've been in the PSA a very, very long time, not just as an ordinary member. I've been the chairperson of the Judiciary branch or section of the PSA for 11 years. I've been on the negotiating committee, the Benefits committee, General council, you name it, under Ms. Jennifer Batiste Primus. And I can, and I can tell you from sitting down here that I did not know that Ms. Jennifer Batiste Primus had any political opinion or political preference until she left office.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: Some of the most fiercest negotiations that the PSA has undergone, engaged in, was engaged in, was during her Time at the time of, of the PNM governance in office. Okay, so that I, I never, I never knew her political preference only until after. Okay, so let us, let us treat with when the latter half or the latter part of of the Watson Duke administration or executive he became a political animal in the year between 2015-16. But in 2013 based on my assessment that I came to the membership with, I warned them that he has mainstream political ambitions. Now had the membership voted him out or chose another executive, I have no doubt that he would have continued on with his business. But the membership saw it. It wasn't nothing that was hiding. They saw it.
I have been on Facebook for quite a while and some of the most harshest criticism I have given to the trade union movement for being in politics was in my articles on Facebook and those who have followed me. Politics or mainstream politics and trade unionism only benefits one people or one person or a group of individuals and that is either the leader of the of the union and some of his or her minions. It has not benefited workers one bit. It is about eater food. It is about persons with selfish ambitions and they have mixed their unions and, and they have even fractured their unions too. Because Satish, my obligation or my role and function as the president of the PSA or soon to be president of the PSA is not to get into the preference of my membership politics.
The PSA as a as this massive industrial relations machinery is just about that. It's about managing grievances, sorting out terms and conditions, negotiating in good faith. And where there is dispute is either we settle it in the court or we settle it on the streets. Many of times that the political I would say entity, they cave in because it didn't look in politically good to have your workers out and about. However, when the leadership of any trade union takes a political preference it destroys their union. It doesn't bring unity, it destroys and this is why I am telling public officers today I consider this to be probably the last Troy no, that will break the camel back because where we are at right now with all the disputes Satish we have over 20 bargaining units under the PSC including the massive civil service that has not gotten enhanced terms and conditions, some of them going back to 17 years. We have our senior lecturers at the Cipriani Labor College. We have persons in Bureau of Standards. Bureau of Standards have not had or changed or altered their collective agreement coming on close to 18 years now.
So certainly has the fact that the leadership of the union dabble in politics changed all of that. No, it has gotten worse than what has happened is when this present individual, Leroy Batiste and Felicia Thomas and all of them, when they walk around the place going to various organizations where our bargaining units are and actually directing our membership where to vote.
This is where his. It has gone too far and therefore I'm telling the membership now on Monday 10 March, the civil service public officers have to come out. WASA have to come out. NIB ADB Tongan country ministry of Planning, Central Statistical Office, Blind Welfare, cda, Civil Aviation, Airports Authority. They have to take an interest in what is going on in their union and come out and vote and vote for PSA United Sentinels led by myself.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: Well, let's talk about the United Sentinels and who comprises. Who makes up the United Sentinels? Tell us.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: Well, myself I declared my candidacy since in the 3rd of July of this year.
I became open and known to everyone that I. Sorry, not July of this year, July of last year I declared my candidacy. Also on my team is Fazia Mohammed. Mohammed, she's our first Vice President. Our second vice president is Neutruda Campbell from the. From the Immigration Division, Ministry of National Security. Fazia Mohammed is from the Ministry of Agriculture. We have.
We have Rhea Ralph Watson who is the present Deputy General Secretary. She's on my team as the General Secretary candidate we have Ms.
Alicia Nyaualo from the Office of the Attorney General as the Deputy General secretary. We have Mr. Ricardo Cunningham, an auditor too from the Ministry Central Statistical Office, Ministry of Planning. We have our industrial relations officers, Sherica Castillo, Keon Charles Stacion Semper.
We also have our treasure, sorry our Trustees, which is Dr. Teresa Mohammed from the Ministry of Labor. And we have Ms. Mernell Raghu, acting Director of Human Resources at the Ministry of National Security. So it is. It is quite. It is quite a field. I have fielded 13 complete candidates and we are here to treat with the business that is all is to get the work done. Our team this year is stay focused. We got work to do, plenty work to do.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: When you've outlined some of the time lapse in dealing with some of these collective bargaining agreements, it's cause for concern for the obvious reason. You have people who are working on salaries that are what some would describe as outdated, totally unacceptable when it comes to meeting with the demands, the challenges, economic and otherwise of present day. But how do you and your team plan to. To get the job done?
Because you. You can't do things this the the same way they're being done now. And get different results. So what do you plan to do differently in, in. In. In trying to get some of these matters resolved? How do you push the hand of an. Let's just say, because we are not too sure what's going to happen with the general election of 2025. It could swing anyway, it could go anywhere. Because elections, these things, you can never really tell. But let's just say for discussion purposes, the present administration retains power for a third consecutive term. Now, we know that the leadership is going to change because Stewart Chung is going to take over. As to whether he will continue after the election, that is left to be seen. But the administration itself and its policies, its approach to these matters will more or less remain the same. How do you plan to change their mind?
[00:20:14] Speaker B: It's all about negotiations.
What we had going on over the past couple of months under Leroy Batiste and them, it was negotiations. It was political gimmetry. Satish I more than anyone else know exactly where we are at right now. And I can tell you, while not giving out much on the method to be employed in doing these negotiations, I can tell you we will be negotiated in good faith. There are matters that we have to treat with via settlement. We are in a position right now that where we have time is our worst enemy.
The time that has elapsed is far too long and therefore we'll be going back to the membership. We'll be convening our membership meetings, our general Council, our conferences, and we'll be laying the cards on the table of where we are at the position we are at right now. And the strategy to employ negotiations is never an easy thing. One thing that we have to understand is that the employer knew what they were doing by putting a career military officer in a civilian post of the chief personal officer.
That went over everyone's head and they didn't realize that the first time in the history of this country we have a career military officer who is the chief negotiator for the state.
So we are not taking these things lightly. And that is why I have put myself in the center of, of a very, very group, a very, very bright and intelligent group of individuals who will act as my support, who will act as the PSA's support because of competence. We will go into the negotiations where what needs to be compromised will be compromised. What needs to be sealed off, we will treat to that. What we will not do is have our negotiations influenced by any backdoor politician. We'll not do that.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: Well, you see, I'm asking these questions on the backdrop of what the Finance Minister had to say in the presentation of the budget, where he made it abundantly clear, here we're going on. You see this 4% dies. It.
And the chief personal officer, with the greatest of respect to him, he's a messenger boy.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: There's nothing that he can do other than carry what one side says to the other and carry the response back and forth. That's his role and function. And for people who think that the chief personal officer has greater influence, you're wrong. He doesn't. He's a messenger boy. That's basically. And we could eliminate the chief personal officer and just send two facts between the two sides and the results could be the exact same.
It is. It's going to be that way. As pedestrian as that description is, that's exactly what exists. So when you have an administration saying to you here, we're going on now, 4% is, you know, somebody sending a message here is asking. They're asking, let me read the message for you. Can you ask Mr. Calendar what is his position on the 4% offer, bearing in mind that the PSA has not yet accepted the offer.
Straightforward. Is he inclined to accept that 4%?
[00:23:29] Speaker B: July 3rd of 2024, I made it absolutely clear that based on the situation that we are in here now and what was caused not by any whims and fancy of anyone else, it was caused by our PSA and the poor leadership that myself, my executive, we are going to go to the General Council of the PSA and inform them of all the pros and cons, but we will be going to accept the 4% and we are going to move on. I'm going to tell members again.
4% is by no way what we would.
4% is, is by no way what we. What we are worth.
We are going to go to the nib. We are going to go to wasa, Civil Aviation, Airports Authority, all our bargaining units and explain to them what time has eroded and lay out the facts. And therefore, if it is that civil, sorry, Airports Authority, Civil Aviation, wasa, they don't want it. Guess what? Satish, Nixon, Callender and this executive will fight to the bitter end. But for those who want to accept, based on what we have brought to them with explanations, we will settle it. You see, a lot of our members have gotten skewed, their minds have gotten skewed. When leaders of the trade union movement, including the PSA leadership, goes to them and say no, no 4%, no 4%. But they didn't give them the history of how we arrive here, we arrived here Satish because we have two individuals who was enabled by others of dragging the psa through politics. 4% was not the offer in 2015. 4% wasn't the offer in 2016, 2017, that wasn't the case. But what was going on over those period of time, it was hardcore rank politics that these two gentlemen, unenabled by some of their executive officers, engaged the, engaged the government. And the PSA in our grouse is not with the Chief Personnel officer, as you rightfully said, the Chief Personnel officer is the chief negotiator, but that is the messenger of the Minister of Finance and the Cabinet of Trinidad and Tobago.
We realize what inflation has done to us. We realize the errors that the PSA would have made. And therefore we have to bring settlement to these negotiations and we move on. We have other items on the agenda that needs to be dealt with. But as far as our membership is concerned, we are going to take it to our membership, we are going to take it back to all our bargaining units, explain to them what is going on and we will get the feedback from them. But my position is it is time to treat with that 4%, settle it and move on.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: How do you, how do you determine? All right, let's accept or not. Because you, you won't have total agreement.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: No, you won't.
[00:26:45] Speaker A: So, so what, what is the barometer used? How, how does the PSA say? Well, all right, here, we're going on, you see this, this unit here? All right, we're going to take it for them. As opposed to see these people here, we ain't taking it for them. What, what are the determining factors?
[00:26:59] Speaker B: Our, our PSA or union or association is separated into sections. Sections. Every section. Our bylaws is clear that the views and opinions of the sections shall be supported by the executive once it does not run contrary to any policy of the union. The views and opinion of these sections represents the body of people that they represent, okay? And this is why I always said when you go to General Council, General Council have representatives of every section. And based on the vote at the General Council, based on the vote taken, it becomes now a policy. And when it becomes a policy, it is because it becomes policy based on information being gathered from the various sections. So if, let me say Wasa, Wasa said, well, look, we hear you, you know, executive, we hear all here, we fighting on. Guess what, man, we drawing swords. And we fight into the better end because why, that is what the section wants, okay? But for the units or the Bargaining units that want to accept we have to carry out their mandate. So even though my position is about bringing out all the justification as to why we need to press forward, guess what? I still get the buy in from the General Counsel. I started to get the buy in from the sections on them.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: Well, let's.
Because it seems to be very interesting to some people. Some people are very much involved in it. Why would the union accept 4%? Because you're saying that there are factors that would impact on the decision.
[00:28:37] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: Tell us, why would you accept it all?
[00:28:42] Speaker B: Our bargaining units. Our bargaining units. Their negotiations is based on retail price index type negotiations. Simply what inflation has removed from you to replenish retail price index is very. Ship is shifting. We are in a past period. Let me repeat again, we are in a past period and that past period, unless the PSA could show the Special tribunal of the Industrial Court that the figures are of which the Minister of Finance brought as evidence and arguments.
Unless we can counter that and say they are saying they only have 5 billion in Ekiti, we saying they have 25 billion in kitty, guess what?
The most likely the special tribunal not being pressed.
What we have here, our matter is in the Special tribunal as a dispute, evidence and arguments are being shared. It is also in the civil court. So unless it comes out of the Civil Court, we cannot proceed with the special Tribunal. But let's say all being dealt with in the civil court, the special tribunal continues.
The PSA has to bring financial evidence to discredit what the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Finance would have filed on who his or her affidavit. So in essence we have to say the figures that the government is giving you is wrong for the Special Tribunal to rule. And based on the history of the ruling of the Special Tribunal, I can tell you, Satish, while it's not flying in the face of that, of that body, Time has become our worst enemy.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: It's not in your favor.
[00:30:36] Speaker B: Time has become our worst enemy.
[00:30:38] Speaker A: Okay, I. I understand what you're saying.
So at this stage the possibility exists that if you don't accept the 4%, you could get nothing.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: Well, not, not well, not you, but my substantive. Yeah, will get nothing. My membership will get nothing.
What wasa. And this is why I'm saying we will be going to the sections and the membership and given all the pros and cons and the options. But Satish, should a section or the General Counsel say do not accept it, guess what? We will continue to advocate, we will continue to fight it out in the Industrial Court. Until the Industrial Court gives its decision, we will continue to fight it out in the Industrial Court. If the WASA management fails to increase it, we'll have to go to the Industrial Court. If NIB management feels to increase it. And guess what? After all the arguments, the courts had to make a decision. But guess what? We would have carried out the wishes of our members.
[00:31:50] Speaker A: Let's. As we're almost out of time, just a couple minutes again, let me allow you the opportunity to convince the people who are listening and who can cast a vote in this election why they should vote for you and your team.
[00:32:03] Speaker B: Satish. Well, members of the psa, you all have known me, you, you have. You would have known some of my other team members too. But PSA United Sentinels led by myself has come with a wealth of experience.
I have never continued. I have never stopped practicing industrial relations. Even after getting out of the psa, I continue to practice industrial relations. I continue to be an advocate at the Equal Opportunities Commission. I continue to do matters in the Ministry of Labor. You name it, consult various private entities. But SATAJ is not just me alone. This is a group of other 12 persons who are highly skilled, highly qualified and they are ready to work. Our team is coined stay focused. We have work to do, plenty work to do. And that was coined for a reason. Our team is all about work and with my leadership, the leadership of the Executive and the leadership of the General Council under our stewardship, we will get matters dealt with. And we aim to treat with at least 50% of what is on our strategic plan by the end of our four years. And if any members believe. Well look, you want to give us another go at it again or I still have enough blood in my veins, we'll go at it. But there is work to do and this is no time to be splitting the votes. Several years ago the membership that six and seven and nine teams coming out this is not. It has three teams, it has the incumbent and there has. There's one other and myself public officers, customs, birth Wasa. You all have been under this political nonsense for too long. It is time to elect a team led by myself to get the job done on Monday 10th March 2025.
[00:34:00] Speaker A: Are there other issues that people need to sort out before the election? You know, like in general election local government and make sure you name on the list and all these kinds of things are those things people need to sort out.
[00:34:10] Speaker B: And soon the preliminary list will be coming out persons that will be printed in the one of the dailies it will also be on the PSA's website. It will be on the PSA's Facebook page. So persons are urged to go out there, check your name. If your name is not on the voters list and you know that you are in the PSA for over one year, go and have your name placed on it. Tuning People this is the carnival season and we don't want people to get tired this season here while people partying, you must be studying what goes on with you, your terms and conditions after the 10th of March 2025.
[00:34:52] Speaker A: Well, I can tell you this. From what we know in the public domain that the PSA is involved in, there are some serious challenges to be confronted.
[00:35:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: Because of government policy related to some of these state agencies.
[00:35:05] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:35:05] Speaker A: There are some serious, serious battles to be waged moving forward as to how the PSA membership treats with these.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: No time for taking chances at all.
[00:35:16] Speaker A: Mr. Ghan, I want to thank you for being with us here this morning. As always, pretty interesting discussion. We wish you and your team all the best in the election and I guess, I guess we'll have some conversations after we see how things go.
[00:35:28] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: The best Insight Instant Feedback Accountability the All New Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
