Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5 and we welcome to our program from the sister aisle, head of news and current affairs, Tobago channel five. That's Aisha Keynes Dumas. Good morning to you and welcome to our program.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: Hi, morning.
[00:00:22] Speaker A: Hi. Good morning to you and welcome to our program. It's nice to have you with us here this morning.
It's an interesting start to our discussions here on Freedom 106.5 because all morning long we're going to be talking about this media budget review and some of the implications. And many times the discussion is it happens in a vacuum and not necessarily taking into consideration all of the other elements. And Tobago is a very important element of the national discussion, or at least it should be. So, as we begin here this morning, I'd like to give you the opportunity to familiarize our listeners with you, tell us a bit about yourself and some of the things that you're involved in.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Well, presently I am the head of news of news on current affairs at Tobago channel. 05:00 a.m. tobago pretty much. That's an all encompassing job.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: I'm sure that Tobago would be, as everybody else would be, paying close attention to this media budget review that comes a little later than it usually does.
And we all know the reasons as to why. We've had some of the shake up and some of the delays, if you want to describe them as such, when it comes to our minister of finance speaking to the nation about what's been happening with our finances and what we can expect moving forward to the end of the financial year, Tobago would have its concerns and matters that it would like to see addressed.
And in your capacity as head of news and current affairs for Tobago Channel five, if anybody would know what some of those are, it definitely be you. So let me begin our conversation here into the budget and the financials. By allowing you to highlight for us, for our listeners, what are some of the things that Tobago and Tobago interests would like to see addressed in this, in this media budget review?
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Well, I think the mid year budget review is no different from the budget. The Tobago budget estimates, which is due to be read I think this month.
The topics continue to speak to stakeholder the usual topics the business people of the community want to see crime address significant, especially as crime continues and serious crime continues to rise and be a problem here in Tobago.
So far we've spoken to the business community.
We have spoke to those included in agriculture who wants to see more work done in agriculture as it relates to Tobago. So that food security continues to be critical as part of food security. We have also already spoken to fishermen, and this year, for the first time, as it relates to the upcoming budget, and I'm sure the media budget review, fishermen in Tobago are calling for an opportunity to export their product more reasonably. And one of the concerns that they raised is that in order to export the product that is caught in Tobago, there's an additional cost of it to be sent to Trinidad first, which sometimes takes the price outside of the range of what people are willing to pay.
Customers outside of Tobago are willing to pay, so they were calling for a look at how that could be possible.
And I think so far, those are the topics that we've covered. We have a few more stakeholders that we need to interview. But for now, those prime fishermen and their product coming out of Tobago towards generating foreign exchange and those involved in agriculture are looking for more assistance in terms of getting young people involved in agriculture. What incentives are, or if we could have more incentive for young people to get into agriculture in Tobigu in a big way.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: I remember us having some discussions on the program about Tobago and agriculture, and some persons from Tobago calling in and expressing their concerns that agriculture in Tobago is nowhere close to where it could be, or probably needs to be, and that much more needs to be done. And having to use the term homegrown in Tobago, as opposed to imported from Trinidad, would affect prices in a real way, because shipping goods from Trinidad to Tobago automatically carries the price of every single thing up because you have that. That additional cost.
What are some of the things, if you can get into detail, that the farming community in Tobago is looking for, what kind of assistance and all of these things, do they have an idea? Are there conversations taking place with the. The.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Well, the first issue that is usually bandied about is the availability of lands for those who are interested in doing farming. Now, we have two problems there.
People who don't have access to lands. And the argument that is being made is that state lands are in abundance in Tobago, and some of those lands need to be able to be used by people in order to do agriculture. That's one. Especially the young people. And how do we find a way to use state lands towards developing agriculture in Tobago and it not being used for everything else? That's the first one. And not just young people. Anybody who is interested in agriculture, I know we also had the history, the issue of even as people have access to land, the land tenure issue in Tobago, where a lot of people have lands or are working on lands that they don't have title for. And you know, in order to get a lot of incentive and stuff like that, you have to show how the land belongs to you or you have permission to do the lands. And the land tenure issue in Tobago is a big problem, not just for people, but for those who are interested in not only doing agriculture, but collecting incentives, being able to get agriculture loans from the ADB, because they don't go about giving loans an incentive unless you could show you are directly tied to the land. And that is an issue as well.
A long time discussion that has been had is that a lot of the flat land in Tobago has now been used for housing.
And therefore you have a lot of hilly places that people try to do agriculture. But of course, hilly agriculture is difficult.
So those are some of the issues as it relates to agriculture in Tobago.
And then of course, doing agriculture on a large scale. The ability to adopt technology in Tobago towards agriculture, the greenhouse type agriculture, the use of technology and farming equipment, all that needs to be a part. Well, it is being said that all that needs to be a part of trying to develop agriculture in Tobago so that it looks good to the young people rather than hard work, if you follow.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying.
Crime is another big topic. But we're going to leave crime alone for now, because when we get into the crime discussion, that's going to be very intense because there's a lot taking place recorded. I think it's ten murders for the year or so. And those figures are not necessarily what you want in a small society like what you have in Tobago and all of those. We'll get to those, but there's another issue that we hear all the time that creates, I don't want to say creates problems, but is a challenge. And that's the transportation between the islands and we have the ferry. Plus you have caribbean airlines. And somebody sent up an interesting message. I'll read it for you and you can shed some light on what are some of the issues that need to be addressed. The message sentence says, a serious issue is Caribbean Airlines and the air bridge. People have invested heavily in villas and townhouses, etcetera, but are experiencing for this summer cancellations due to flight problems and boats being full. Secondly, why is Caribbean Airlines saying that seats are empty, but yet they're not available from the Tobago perspective?
Tell us about some of the concerns with the air bridge and the Seabridge.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: For many Tobagonians, when you listen to them, that is a bugbear. Those two areas are a bugbear. And not necessarily for tourists only, which people continue to say it's critical, but critical for Tobigonians as a whole. In the past, Tobigonians have used. We. We have a running joke in Tobago that we use caribbean airlines and the sea bridge as our taxi.
We go to the port, we go to the airport, we buy a ticket, we hop on, we spend the day in Trinidad, and we come back. That has been something to begin, has done for decades, and within, I want to say, recent times, I guess, with development, that has sort of not been possible.
And if you listen to the stakeholders, it is because the demand continues to grow, but the supply is not there with respect to the transportation. So now, on an average day in Tobago, if you go down to the airport, you will not guarantee Trinidad or you spend a couple hours or two. So now Trinidad. Getting to Trinidad for the simplest thing now has to be planned out way ahead of time, which sometimes is impossible for tobigonian food needs. It's like, from our perspective, it's like getting up in the morning, realizing that you missed something, run into Scarborough and come back. That is how we treated Trinidad, because the airline was there, the Seabridge was there.
When you factor tourism on top of that general use, then at times it has become a nightmare for Tobigonians and for our tourists in general. And then when you add the busy weekends and the busy holidays on top of it, it just, the whole thing, a lot of time, just.
It's. It continues to be a nightmare for our tourism industry and for Tobigo dance in general.
The powers that be, if you listen to what they say, they try. There's negotiations in terms of increasing the number of flights on the air bridge, because, of course, it's 20 minutes to get to Trinidad is the same 20 minutes most of us take to get to Scarborough. So we don't treat it any different.
It continues to be a problem, and of course, it gets worse when we have busy weekends.
The problem that we remember was a tourism related island, but not just a tourism related island, a tourism event related island. So there's always something happening on a long weekend. Heritage, Easter, Christmas, the summer vacation, people come into line.
When you put all of that together, sometimes it just does not work.
Negotiations continue based on what the the has said, the Seabridge does way better in terms of moving people back and forth, because, of course, within the last three or four years, we got two new vessels, which is passenger vessels. So that works 100% better than it did previously. And I know a lot of Tobago n's have said they are grateful for that. But then of course when you get to the busy weekend, the same thing happens. And of course we have problems with the cargo vessel. The cargo vessel works pretty frequently and consistently. But then of course the problem comes when it is time for it to go on dry duct. And remember the same way with agriculture where you talked about having to bring produce to Tobago. A lot about the items that we consume, construction items, grocery items, warehouse type items have to come through Trinidad. And the cargo vessel is what we use nightly in terms of trucks and flatbeds to be able to bring up all those items for Tobigonians to use. So whenever that main vessel, because only one cargo vessel we have goes on dry dock for two weeks to be Gordians have problems, especially the business people as well. They've tried to let us know now way in advance when it is time for it to go and dry docks in terms of getting preparations completed so that Tobigonians aren't affected. But it hasn't worked out well.
The government we heard, well, they announced that they have put in a tender in order to get an additional cargo vessel. And we hope that that comes through in a timely fashion. And we hope it's not a matter of replacing the one that is there but adding that capacity to the Seabridge. And when I say we, I am talking to talking about people who have spoken to the media with the hope that they want to see more capacity on the cargo vessel so that they could bring additional stuff to Tobago and meet the demand.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: There's a question related to the politics of Tobago that probably ties into the delivery of service and how fast or slow things things get done. There is a situation in Tobago now where you have what was formerly the PDP winning the ThA elections and you had individuals moving into the Tha under that banner. And we all know what transpired subsequent to that.
And now I think it's is the people's party the name of the party that Farley, Augustine and others have launched?
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Tobago people, the Tobago right.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: And PPP. Right. So the question is simply this. We've had before instances where you have one party in charge of the Tha and another party in charge of central government.
You have the same thing existing now with some nuances of, well, who started now turn into something else and everything else. But when it comes to getting things done, is that political climate a better situation for Tobagonians or worse situations for Tobegonians? Meaning we know that there will be political wrangling when you have different persons in charge of different things. When the. The chair was run by the PNM, one would have expected that getting things done would have been faster and easier because you had the cohesion between the Tobago arm of the PNM and the Tobago arm of Trinidad, and both of them working together.
And you might be naive to think that there are not issues there that impact on the delivery of service and all those kinds of things. But what has been happening since that tha. Election that the PDP initially won? I think it was 14 one. And now we have. Well, what we have. Yes, what we have in. In the tha. At this point in time, is Tobagoians better off? Is the situation tense? What's. What's going on?
[00:17:40] Speaker B: You know, the answer to that question is based on who you speak to, right?
We Tobigonians have a say. I don't know if you've ever heard it, that when the politics in Tobago differs from the politics in Trinidad, that is when Tobago fares better, which is not what typically people think. So they cite the example of in the past where it is not the same political party that is running to the Tobago House of assembly, that is the same political party running the central government. Tobago fares better.
And the reason they say something like that is because the fight always leads to something better, if you understand.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: No, I do.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: So when those in Tobago are fighting against those in Trinidad Tobago gets a little more than it usually expects, for whatever reason, if you follow.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: I do, actually. It comes like.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: It sounds.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: I'm sorry, it comes like if you have.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Hello?
[00:18:56] Speaker A: Hello, you hear me? Are you hearing us?
[00:18:58] Speaker B: Yes, go ahead.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: Yes, I hear it.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: You know, it comes as if you have two suitors, um, uh, fighting amongst themselves for the interests of a young lady. And in this instance, you have to be with Tobagonians as the lady, and you have the other political interests who are trying to show Tobagonians that, listen, I am the better. Best for you at this point.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: And.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: And I guess it stands to reason that in a situation like that, you'll have the exact opposite of what some people expect.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: What people expect. Now, if you're talking on the other side, because the one example we have is the PNM in Tobago and the PNM in Trinidad, if you speak to those who support them, they would tell you otherwise. That when both parties are in power in both places, Tobago got a lot. So the answer to that question is pretty much based on who you talk to and what their opinion of the whole thing is.
Presently, as you know, the party that we have in Tobago is a new party.
They had some issues and of course they moved from the PDP to the TPP because of a fracture that happened despite calls for them to vacate the house.
When you look at what the Tobago house of Assembly act says, there's nothing that speaks directly to such a decision.
Just like there was nothing directly that spoke to decision of attack or there was nothing that spoke directly to the decision of a full sweep which happened previously under the PNM where they won twelve mil.
So. And that's those sort of results that have been playing out over the last. Well, it's about a decade now. Is one of the reasons why Tobigonians continue to call for internal self government and reform of the Tobago House of Assembly act. Not only to give to begonians the ability to make decisions on significant things or significant areas of the island, but also to take into consideration what are typical results that could happen. 12 million tie a party who went in, decided everybody break and decide to form a new party. None of these decisions or none of these results were dealt with. So based on interpretation, people get to move forward with what they want to do. So Tobigonians continue to call for internal self government discussion on it again, because, you know, we've been through it a number of times. You have people calling for further discussion at debates to find out what the people actually want. We have different people calling for different items to be included in what may be a new act for Tobago. And so far it has not moved forward.
So everything that is being done is based on interpretation and opinions. Yeah, pretty much.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: For those of you who may have joined our conversation midway, we are speaking this morning with the head of news and current affairs at Tobago channel five. That's Ayesha Keynes Dumas. And our conversation this morning has been pretty wide. We're covering a lot of things. We need to take a couple messages though. But when we get back, we will take our conversation a bit further and focus on this issue, the issue of crime in Tobago. We've been. We've been seeing these stories, we've been hearing the comments from those in authority. We'll delve a bit deeper into it right after these messages. Stay with us.
Just about 13 minutes before seven at the top, of course, our news. And then following that, our morning poll, we continue our conversation with our special guest, head of news and current affairs, Tobago channel five vets, Ayesha Keynes Dumas. If you'd like to join the conversation, feel free to. Free to call us on 625-2257 we could probably get a couple calls in as we continue. As I said just before the break, we need to delve deep into this issue of crime and what's going on in Tobago. As head of news and current affairs, you would be hands on when it comes to these stories and some of the developments. It's not often that news persons are interviewed to give their perspective on what's going on. So that. That is what makes this discussion here this morning all the more interesting.
What's. What's happening? And that might seem like a broad question, but you may have some insights, your own personal perspective. What has been going on in Tobago. It seems this. As though this. This issue of crime has not been progressively gotten worse. It seems as if there's a full out onslaught and all of us are missing real bad.
What's. What's taking place.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: Um.
Okay. Um.
When we look at crime, a lot of us viewers and I think we need to be careful. When we look at crime, pretty much the focus is on under the category serious crime, we look at murders. So if we break it up a bit, what Tobago has seen an increase in under the serious crime bracket is murders. And we've also noted an increase in robberies. And we need to be very clear. When we say robberies, we talking about coming into somebody's place with a weapon while they are there. And police will tell you, tell me over and over, I shall remember that robberies are different from larceny. If I come into your home and you're not there, that's not a robbery. But if I come into your home and you're there and I have a weapon, that is robbery. Tobago has seen an increase. The numbers for murders says it all. As they indicated, we are in early June and we are already at ten murders for 2024. For us in Tobago and for the Tobago public, that is a significant number. What is even more significant is that the majority of those murders are related to some sort of gun violence.
And that is something that has not been typical over the years in Tobago. If you had. And this is decades ago. Well, not even decades, maybe a decade or two ago. If you had one murder for the year, you knew who it was because it was some domestic issue that happened. Now, if I remember correctly, don't quote me on it. I think nine out of our ten murders this year was directly related to gun violence. And that is something that not only the police, but the public is seriously concerned about. The number of weapons that have found themselves on the island people are using. And I mean not just the murders alone. Ever so often you hear the police report that they have confiscated or discovered weapons, glocks, shotguns. That is something that the public continues to say is concerning to Tobago, not only the way it is used, but how is it getting to the island in the first place and how do you go about stemming that inflow?
So that's related to the murders, which regardless of what is said, the number is up. The other thing that we've noted is the increase in robberies where a lot of, when you do look at who is being charged for these robberies, a lot of young people, 2019 young men, 21, are holding up businesses all over the place in the middle of the day, in the evening to rob. We had two the other day where two young men were held. I don't know if you all saw it, a car wash in the mall, busy area. A young man took the chance to rob there and another one took the chance to rob, they said a department store in Montgomery. That is an increase that we have noted as well. Something we're not accustomed hearing or seeing in Tobago as well. And people continue to find that concerning.
[00:28:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it changes, I don't want to say the social fabric, but it changes the atmosphere that people go to Tobago for.
And I mean, domestic tourism is a big deal. We've had some heinous. We've had some heinous crimes taking place. I remember the greens and what transpired with them and how that was such a big deal and everything else that transpired under that case. But I've been told as well, and we speak to a number of people. We've spoken to Doctor Vanos James, we've spoken to Martin George and a couple others stakeholders in Tobago about what's going on. And recently I was told by somebody who went across to Tobago that when they went to the little apartment building that. That they rented, and, you know, you have a lot of those outside. And apart from the big hotels and everything else that people go to, they were told to keep their doors locked by the operation.
[00:29:12] Speaker B: And that's something we're not. That's something we're not accustomed to in Tobago. We are custom to coming and going as we please.
[00:29:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:21] Speaker B: And even though I'm a reporter, I could tell you, honestly, even I have to wrap myself around, wrap my head around the ability to remember to physically lock my door when I go out, to physically lock your door when you come back home, to put on the additional locks, to be mindful of where you go. Even me as a citizen here in Tobago has had to sit and get my head that it's a different type of living now in Tobago. And you need to be careful and mindful now. You go to places, you go to the gas station, you go into a store, and ever so often, fleetingly, you wonder, I hope nobody ain't coming here to rock. And people have told me that as they move about Tobago, it is definitely a different thinking, a different life.
[00:30:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:14] Speaker B: That is seeping in, in terms of how we live in Tobago.
[00:30:19] Speaker A: Yeah, that's very, very worrying. We're almost out of time, actually. Actually, we are out of time. But there's just one comment I want to get from you as we wrap up a Tobago police force, as is being recommended, the municipal police out of the ThA. Do you think that can help?
[00:30:39] Speaker B: I think presently any additional security, whether it be police or well trained people, can help, but I think it has to be supplemented with a social plan because it's not all about locking up. And the reaction is about how do we go about preventing it. And I'm not sure that a police force can prevent it. Maybe could be a part of a plan where they could be included in that. Because we know the Trinidad and Tobago police force, I know the officers in Tobago Gorge and talk to schools. We have the police youth clubs, so they are a part of that prevention. But even though we're looking at putting additional police on the ground, I think there needs to be a bigger program with respect to how do we go about preventing what is happening rather than reacting to it after it happens. And a lot of people hold that mindset.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: Well, this is. This is where we're going to have to drop the curtains on our, on our conversation because we do have some commitments to take us up to the news, but we haven't even scratched the surface on some of the other things that I wanted to get in touch. Well, talk to you about. One of those is the role that the two seats in Tobago will play in the general election of 2025 and what are some of the things we can expect based on what's, what's been happening in Tobago? That's an important discussion because Tobago may hold the key to the balance of power if things go a certain way. And that's a discussion we always need to have. Plus, there are so many other things, business and other things that we haven't been able to discuss in this very short interview where time got away from us. I want to thank you so much for being with us here this morning and sharing these perspectives with our listeners on what's going on in Tobago. That last one about the atmosphere and the crime. It's worrying. But I thank you. I'm sure that we'll have more discussions, probably after the finance minister speaks today. Moving on, when the political climate heats up because of the general election campaign, we will have further discussions. Thank you for being with us here this morning.
[00:32:48] Speaker B: You're welcome. No problem. Thank you for having me.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: And that, of course. Ladies and gentlemen, how we drop our curtains with our interview. With our special interview with our guest head of news and current affairs, Tobago channel five. That's Aisha. The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5.
