MORNING RUMBLE

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're tuned into the all new freedom 106.5 106.5. [00:00:06] Speaker B: Good morning to you Mr. David Abdullah. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. [00:00:10] Speaker A: Morning. Morning David. Thanks for having me. Morning to all of who are tuned in. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Thank you for your patience and locked into me this morning. I know it's always a pleasure when you and I bounce on the radio, we chat and this morning I want to get straight into this as I have limited time. It's no stranger we see what's happening on the terrorists listing here with Hezbollah, Iran and the Revolutionary Guard and that kind of thing. What are your thoughts with this government's stance against creating this terrorist blacklist? Some persons are saying it's an attack on Islam. We did a poll yesterday and I'll give you the results of the politics. I'll look for the results. But what are your thoughts? [00:00:46] Speaker A: It's the timing of it is very, is very questionable. I mean the issue of terrorist organizations or alleged terrorist organizations being declared as such is not new in that legislation was passed to give effect to that quite some years ago. And of course this was on the push by the US and the Western powers following 9 11. So they wanted to try and choke off any sources of financing and things like that. So groups like ISIS would have been declared as a terrorist organization and Al Qaeda or Al Qaeda related groups. Now this situation is very questionable in terms of the timing because Hezbollah, Hamas have been around for a long time and of course the Islamic Revolutionary Guard is part of the, of the state forces in Iran. Iran is a sovereign country and that's part of the official military capacity. So why, why no, why, why now? Simply because the US and Israel, in my view, because we have to understand the dynamic of it. In other words, how this being done six years ago or whatever people, in terms of Hamas and Hezbollah people may have raised concerns but the issue would not have come so starkly into focus. But it's happening now because there's a war going on and that war is an illegal war started by the US And Israel. We can't duck or hide that it's an illegal war. It's illegal because the US and Israel did not get any backing from the United Nations Security Council and there was no imminent threat by Iran to attack with nuclear weapons or anything like that, the United States or any other country. So it's an illegal war, has no basis in legality. Which is why countries in Western Europe, if you notice, Italy just suspended its defense arrangements with Israel. Spain has also done the same and other countries in Europe have said they're not getting involved in this war because they know it is an illegal war. So here you have an illegal war being carried out by Israel and the United States against Iran. Iran being attacked has therefore the right to defend itself. And it's its military force, which includes, which is central to that is Islamic Revolutionary Guards are defending themselves. So how are you going to declare that they are a terrorist organization at this moment when they're in the midst of defending their country? In the case of Hezbollah, Hezbollah is an armed group. And we must understand the history of Hezbollah and Hamas. They were both really encouraged, facilitated, financed by Israel and the West. You know, in the case of Hamas, Israel and the United States were very concerned and unhappy about the existence of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, the plo, which was one of the, which is one of the main Palestinian organizations, that is one led by Yasser Arafat. That name may ring a bell to older folks, younger people wouldn't remember, but Yasafat for decades led the resistance of, of Palestinians against Israeli occupation and forcing Palestinians to live in essential refugee camps. So as a counter to the plo, the Israelis helped to support Hamas. Of course, Hamas then got a life of its own and in an election, actually, they took control of Gaza. That's what happened. So they became more popular than the PLO because a number of Palestinians felt that the plo, especially after Arafat's death and so on, had become too soft in its defense of Palestinians against Israeli incursion in the west bank and the apartheid. [00:05:15] Speaker B: But the thing about it is, how does that affect us locally? I mean, we're seeing where the Muslim community in Trinidad and Tobago saying it's an attack on them. They worried about funding being withheld by government. Now the government has made it very clear that if you have links, properties, woolies, joints, there was a clear demarcation as to what they were looking at. So if you, as a Muslim entity, because I understand there are several different Muslim entities in Trinidad and Tobago, I always thought they were under one umbrella. Then I'm seeing there's a Shia, there's Shia Muslims, there's the Jamaat Muslims, and there's a whole separation. What I'm saying, if you are a law abiding association and entity, why are you concerned about the terrorist blacklist issue? Now, I understand what you're talking geopolitically on the timing, but locally, closer to home, right here in our home, in our country, why are our local Muslims worried about getting funding from government if their cause is a legitimate one with respects to persons in this country. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Okay, several things, of course. Yes, the Muslim community is not only divided here in Trinidad and Tobago, but globally. So Saudi Arabia, for example, those are Sunni Muslims and Iran are Shiites. So there is a conflict which is reflected actually in some of the different positions in the Middle East. So a number of the Gulf countries are dominated by Sunnis, whereas Iran is Shiite. And so there are differences within the Muslim world politically, quite apart from some differences in perhaps religious practices to some extent. I can't get into detail, I'm not expert in Islamic theology, but there are certain geopolitical differences between Sunnis and Shiites in that part of the world. So the issue, well, Hezbollah, Hamas and so on, quite clearly aligned with Iran. Coming closer to home, we have to understand that there are groups here that would have provided support for Palestinians, say the genocide in Gaza. I would have provided humanitarian support and they would have done that through international organizations that are reputable. Now, I don't know because not all of the information that was provided to the court by the Attorney General has been made public because the media reported. And I must congratulate Guardian because it took the lead on this issue that the gazetted. There were two gazetted orders. One the order by one judge, Justice Cobin, I think that dealt with the Islamic Revolutionary Guard and Hamas, I think, and the other by Justice Wilson that dealt with Hezbollah. So those two gazetted orders had reductions. What we've come to know of reductions through the Epstein trials, right, where, where some information is blacked out. So it's very unusual for a gazetted order to have blacked out information, which means that it would appear that some local organizations have been named in the court order but not gazetted, not publicly available in the gazette. So we don't know if there are now some named Trinidad and Tobago organizations that are subject to sanctions. We don't know because they're reductions, which is worrying. So one thing is that we need to call on the government to make public all of the information and not to have some things redacted because it puts some people perhaps in a position of uncertainty. Are they. Because they may have provided humanitarian. Let us be clear that Israel carried out genocide in Gaza and they're still carrying it out because since the so called peace agreement last year, a thousand people have been killed in Gaza. In the occupied West Bank, Israeli settlers illegally have been going into Palestinian homes, evicting them, violently burning down the homes and so on. People have been attacked and killed by said settlers, supported by the idf, Israeli Defence Force, farms have been seized and so on. And of course, the system of apartheid continues in the occupied West Bank. So we don't know if any of the organizations that legitimately provided humanitarian assistance to the people in Gaza who have been suffering genocide and starved into submission and all kinds of things like that, their homes are being destroyed, they're living in tents. Whether any of them are being sanctioned. [00:10:34] Speaker B: I have. [00:10:36] Speaker A: Let me make one other point and the question of terrorism. We have to be very clear about what is terrorism, because it's a fancy term that is bandied about and used arbitrarily. Nelson Mandela and the ANC in South Africa were deemed terrorists by the United States and Britain under that show and Reagan and before them, you know, because anybody who was challenging that status quo in South Africa and other parts of Africa were deemed terrorists. Now, my understanding of terrorism is when people use violence and military violence against civilians who are not supposed to be as distinct from being engaged in a war. So the Islamic Revolutionary Guard is engaged in a war war with the US Military and with the Israeli Defense Force military. That's a war. But when the US bombed Iran, the first casualties were 170 schoolgirls who were at school. That is an act of terrorism, whether it's carried out by a state or otherwise act of terrorism, because they kill innocent civilians, in this case children. But is there a condemnation of that when the International Criminal Court has found that Netanyahu and Israelis and so on have been, There's a private facing case and there's a warrant out for the arrest to face trial for war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide against Palestinians in Gaza in particular, and the maintaining of our apartheid system in the West Bank. Netanyahu is not arrested when he goes to the United States. He goes to the White House and meets with Trump and other presidents before Trump addresses joint sessions of Congress. So there is a hypocritical double standard by the United States, by the west, with respect to how they use this terminology, okay? And we have to be clear and understand those things as we take positions on principle. So if, for example, the Trinidad and Tobago government, having declared, made this declaration of those three organizations as terrorists, are they going to say the IDF is terrorists as well? Are they going to suspend diplomatic relations with Israel, as we have called since the Rowdy administration, suspend diplomatic relations with Israel, stop all sporting ties and cultural ties, similar as we did with South Africa, because of the. What the South African apartheid regime was doing, Those are the things that we have to put out of the public domain and not simply swallow the rhetoric coming out of Washington. And unfortunately, it seems as if this government is doing things to curry favor and, you know, jump in line with whatever Washington does and says, well, this [00:13:29] Speaker B: government has been accused of being consuming Trump juice and as you mentioned, seeming to align themselves with ideologies and policies coming out from this illegal war that the US and Iran and Israel has reached. Now you talk about the difference with Sunnah, with the Sunnis and the different sects in the Muslim community. Let me take this call quickly and then I'll ask my final question. Hello, good morning. [00:13:56] Speaker A: Yeah, you have to. Abdullah, you have to understand that, that about two weeks ago, the European Union declared the I ARG in Iran as a terrorist organization. You see, we who belong to the Euro American civilization, right? The Euro American civilization, we are under, we in Toronto be who we come under. Euro American civilization. So what Europe, what Europe is doing and America is doing. So are we doing the same thing? Because right here in 1990, Ms. Abdullah, the Muslims that did a bad thing, that, that, that part of your, that sect, this is a wrong thing. Where are you going? [00:14:42] Speaker B: Where you going with this? Oh, you got. Paul, Paul, sorry that I cut you off, but I don't know where you're going. I don't know. I don't know. I, I try. [00:14:49] Speaker A: I wasn't hearing, I was. Sorry, David. I wasn't hearing everything that you were saying. [00:14:52] Speaker B: All right, let me get this last one for you. Hello, Good morning. [00:14:54] Speaker A: Yeah, hi. Good morning, Gavi and Mr. Abdullah. You see, Mr. Abdullah, we had a group of people here, nobody send them there to join isis. They get into problem there, they want to come back and they asking the past government, they didn't get to know after this government and it's a problem. So this is what if the government trying to safeguard the people of here, they went up there on their own. Now they cannot come back there. What the government is. Thank you very much. [00:15:22] Speaker B: All right. She was talking about ISIS and persons who voluntarily left Trinidad and Tobago. Whether they were paid in us to come across. They left here, nobody input them out. Went to fight and to fight for a cause that have nothing to do with us, but they want to get repatriated back to the country. And she was talking that government have a right to protect its citizens from persons who have aligned themselves to terrorist organizations. Now I heard, I heard what you talk about, the illegal war, Netanyahu leaving, going to Washington, not being arrested for committing crimes against humanitarian human humanity. And these war crimes and genocide I hear all of that. But when I look at Trinidad and Tobago, outside of the geopolitical stance that we have taken on this landscape, I am just dealing with the issue of why are Muslims feeling threatened? Threatened. And you have, you're touching it a little bit. But I am safely saying, and I'll give this, this final example, $4,000 is a ticket. If you drive on the people and them real estate known as the bush route, by $4,000, we could argue that is draconian, is harsh. Come on. That is wickedness. 4005 ticket. But guess what? If you don't do what is wrong and drive on the people on them bus, shoot, how is that $4,000 ticket going to affect you similarly in Trinidad and Tobago? Now, I understand the humanitarian. You talk about sending aid and all of that. Okay, we'd love to do that. We can't do it anymore, but we could still get funding for us domestically. What is the major concern? Your final thought there before I go? [00:16:59] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. We have to understand what the Trump agenda is. And it's very clearly articulated by Marco Rubio, Secretary of State and peak headset, the Secretary of Defense. Hex Keith is quite clear when he talks about the US Pursuing a white Christian agenda. Yes. Rubio, when he went to the Munich conference some weeks ago, had made a major address and, you know, we need to make people aware. He talked about European and American civilization as being the only change, civilization of value, and spoke about how the United States became what it is because of Europeans migrating and so on. They didn't talk about the transatlantic slave trade and what that did to generate wealth or the genocide of the first peoples and Native Americans and what that did to enable the grab of land and so on by European settlers. So they have a very clear conception of the world. Okay. And so when Trump talks about bombing them back to the Stone Age and that a whole civilization will die tonight, what is he referring to? He's referring to Iran, which has a very long history of civilization. That's Persia, going back thousands of years when Europeans were totally uncivilized. It was in hope. You know, there was no European society at that time that we could speak about. And he's talking about people who are Muslims. So you have to read between the lines and understand that I'm not talking about Western European countries, because Spain and Italian and a number of others have taken different positions. But clearly Trump and the United States has a position which is anti Muslim. And remember when he first got into government, he banned people from entering the United States from Muslim countries. So underlying all of this, there is discrimination in the United States against citizens and many other things by the Trump administration, and that is driving it. And if you understand Netanyahu, he has an agenda to reshape the whole part of that part of the world in terms of boundaries, which is why he's gone into southern Lebanon and so on. They still maintain the Golden Heights, which they captured after the 67 war. So Israel wants to control Gaza. Remember, Trump said he would turn Gaza into, you know, like a Mediterranean paradise for the rich and powerful and so on, a kind of playground for. For the wealthy. So they have an agenda, and we have to understand that agenda. That is why I think Muslims in Trinidad Tobago and elsewhere in the world feel marginalized. Trump talked about bombing Nigeria because Christians were being killed. That was just not true. Absolutely not true. So these are some of the underlying reasons why the Muslim community here would feel that the government in Trinidad and Tobago ought to not to be, as you say, drinking Mr. Trump's Kool Aid. And as for those who went to isis, I joined ISIS from. I totally oppose that kind of thing because ISIS was not in conformity with the teachings of Islam. I've heard Islamic scholars speak about that and so on. The problem, though, is that their wives went with them and some of their children went, and children was subsequently born over there in Syria. So to Trinidadian mothers. So not leaving out the men, most of them were killed. Forget them. But the women and the children, in my view, ought to be returned to Trinidad and Tobago and rehabilitated back through a transition process in our society. The prime minister, when she was leading the opposition in the last campaign, promised to do that, to bring them back. And I think that that is a promise that should be kept. [00:21:03] Speaker B: All right. Unfortunately, I know we could talk a little more, but I must thank you, David, for sharing your thoughts this morning. We do appreciate you, and we'll talk again in the not too distant future. [00:21:12] Speaker A: Thanks for having me, David. Take care, everybody. [00:21:14] Speaker B: You're welcome. [00:21:15] Speaker A: You're tuned into the all new freedom 106.5. 106.5.