Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5.
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. As I said to you earlier on, a bit of a correction on my part, I said that we will be speaking to a new political entity. Well, it's not a new political entity at this time. We're speaking to representatives of a new organization, new civil society group, and it's focusing on issues related to governance and some of those. And of course, we do have two individuals here who will be helping us, guiding us along, explaining to us some of what's going on. The organization is called our part.
And we have with us CEO, that's Rudolf Hanamji. Good morning to you and welcome to our program.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: Good morning, Satish and to all the listeners and fellow citizens, thanks for having us.
[00:01:05] Speaker A: We have another representative of the organization. That's Anario Mason. He's the COO. Thank you for joining us this morning. Nice to have you.
Okay, we can barely, we can barely, barely hear you. You need to speak up just a bit.
[00:01:26] Speaker C: Can you hear me now?
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Yes, we're hearing you a bit better.
[00:01:28] Speaker C: Good morning Satish and thank you for having us. And also welcome and a good morning to your listeners and viewers online and on the airwaves.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: This is going to be a pretty interesting discussion. Mister Anamji, you found yourself in the news recently.
Let's begin there and then we'll move on to the organization. You found yourself in the news.
You're no stranger to making pronouncements and finding yourself in the news and that kind of thing for putting it lightly. The most recent incident saw you resigning as I think it was communications for the whole party.
And you're having some strong pronouncements. We don't want to dwell too much there because you're moving on, certainly. Yeah. But we need, of course, for context to tell people what happened there and your move to this new organization.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Thank you for that, Satish. And it is important to set context and give because we are about transparency and governance at the end of the day, and I don't believe in situational ethics. As you said, my public career in politics, civil society work, advocacy is clear to be seen. For anyone who has Google, you must stand for ethics and integrity in everything that you do, because if you try to be convenient about it in one space, it undermines everything else that you stand for. So that decision actually was to finally resign as a member. And again, to use that as an example, even that word member with that organization is an inverted commas because after three and a half years, the organization still does not have a ratified constitution. So from a pure governance framework, that is a flaw immediately. And I would have joined about a year ago, and internally, we would have had a number of strong arguments at the natics level. I did serve as pro for just about two months, but again, Satish, because the journey that the leadership is on was so different from what some of us as the members thought we were going to be a part of. I could not hold that position because I would not have been able to truthfully represent to the nation what that vision was. And as a result, it has an effect on my professional and personal ethics. So that's why I made the final decision to step away from the politics and focus on this new initiative, which is, of course, as you intimated our part, the portal for accountability and representation for Trinidad and Tobago. And we do intend to inform policy, which has to, of course, be adopted and implemented by people who practice politics. But it is not intended in any way to ever be a political party. So that's why I stepped away, and it's freed me to focus on this and mobilizing and building a better Trinidad and Tobago.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: What I find interesting in looking at your history politically is the pronouncement that you've made on principle. Yes, and people will judge you according to their own perspectives, but a lot of what you've put into the public domain when it comes to your actions were hinged on principled positions.
And I find that very instructive.
We live in a society where people are willing to, I want to say, compromise their principles for the overarching objectives of a political party or an entity and everything else. And it's not necessarily very often that we have persons who stand up and say, well, this is how things are supposed to be, and this is not how things are going. And as a result of that, um, I'm no longer going to be associated with this association. Let me allow, before we carry on our conversation, let's. Let's allow Anario Mason to tell us a bit about himself so that the listeners have a greater appreciation for who he is and the perspectives he puts forward. Tell us about yourself.
[00:05:48] Speaker C: Okay, so, satiation, listeners. I met Rudolph, right, at the whole party. We joined around the same time on the executive team. And just like Rudolph, I had an issue with the leadership and things like that. However, I didn't publicly stand up and say I was with them, so I didn't need to resign publicly.
But my history and going back, my mom became handicapped in 2016, and based off of that, I started advocating for disabilities and mental health spaces, which has progressed me to now towards the 17 UN SDG goals, which aligns with one of the projects under our part, one of our signature projects that is, it's called the Inspire 360, which deals with the UN sdgs and how we can use that to elevate and promote Trinidad to where it should be in the 21st century.
I hope that gives a little clearer picture of who I am and what I do.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it does. Let's, let's get to this new organization now.
Tell us about it, the formation and the objectives.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: So satish, 25 years ago when I was at Queen's Royal College, an institution you are familiar with as well, I started my work in advocacy, human rights advocacy through projects at the school level like the model United nations, the Kewanee's Club, etcetera. And I fell in love with with community mobilization.
Going to Queens Royal College really helped me to define my purpose as an individual, as a citizen because it was the first time I interacted with people outside of my specific social or familial circles. And I will always remember I had a colleague, you probably had a similar experience in your time as well, who came to QRC from Manzanilla and he would have to take one of those blue PTSE buses back then for younger listeners that didn't have air conditioning, didn't have some of the comforts that the current buses may have. And yet he was expected to leave Manzanilla at 04:00 in the morning and get back home after 730 and perform at the same level that the rest of us might have performed. In some of our cases we were dropped and picked up to the college. We had certain privileges that he did not have. And that was the first time I really came face to face with the concept of equity in society. And that is really what this organization is about. I mean, for me it's been a quarter of a century journey, as you said, interacting with the politics directly, supporting a number of NGO's and civil society groups, and also acting at a national policy development level where I've advised different administrations. My training is in public innovation and governance and innovation. So what we are trying to do, Satish, is make a call for nation builders where people who understand that you must have a clear purpose about what you are doing, you must have the right people gathered who have ethics, principles, training, capacity and not always tradition, formal training, other types of training as well. And because you have the right people and your purpose is clear about building a better Trinidad and Tobago you can affirm and develop the right policies which have to then be adopted and implemented at the core of the citizenry. So those are the three P's that the organization is based upon purpose, people and policies.
[00:09:32] Speaker A: Do you think that our population wants to engage in these kinds of discussions? I've had. I've had interviews with persons out of Jamaica and I can't remember the lady's name or the name of the group, but they have a very, very strong organization when it comes to holding politicians in check.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: Yes, I think it's jump.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: I can't remember the name of the organization, but they do. And their role and function is to provide a platform for persons who maybe have issues with things, the way they're going and holding some government ministers and ministries accountable in a non political way. And from the discussions we had, it seems as though they are vibrant enough to be a thorn in the side of any political entity, whichever one is in office at the point in time. Here at home we have a different dynamic in that we have people who may want to speak on things, may have valid points, positions, perspectives, but fair victimization.
And that's a reality. I remember speaking to somebody who runs an insurance company that is regional in nature.
And the head of the organization came to Trinidad for a discussion, workers. And he asked for feedback and he said to me that when he opened the floor, nobody wanted to speak up, nobody. Even though there were problems that were glaring. So afterwards he went individually to people and said, well, you know, you complain about this and how come one of these floors open? And the individuals said to him that they fear victimization. And he said that in this country victimization is not perceived, it's real, because there are people who open their mouths and say things and then find themselves in the dog house. I know someone who was at UE and because of the perspectives that they outlined, not in tandem with the political directorate at the point in time, I identify which one it was. They had to leave the country and seek employment elsewhere because of the pressures that were exerted. So now you're. This organization here is seeking to present a platform for people to engage in the kinds of activities that plenty people shine away from. How are you going to encourage people to be a part of this organization?
[00:12:01] Speaker B: Simply put, Satish. And it goes back to what I was talking about earlier, about the difference between privileged and vulnerable persons. There are persons like myself and others who have been blessed with certain resources, privileges, education, opportunities, perspectives.
We have to step forward and stand in that bridge that gap, because you cannot expect the average citizen who is in survival mood, that is at greatest risk of victimization, to really stand up and express their disagreement, or even have the mind space sometimes to review volumes of data and information to form a position that empowers them. So the first step is that. And Plato spoke about it when he, when he discussed governance, right? He used the word elites. Today, that word has a negative connotation because we say elitist. But what he was really referring to are the people you intimated about, academics, the professional class, the business owners.
There has to come a point when people realize that by being silent, they are actually enabling the victimization in an indirect way. And the country is not progressing in the manner that it needs to, because we are, as you said, afraid of whatever retaliation may come. However, if you have put yourself in a position where you can shield yourself better, you may not protect yourself fully, but you are willing to undertake the fact that there will be some retaliation. My experience has been that once you are really standing on the right side of history, and you are treating with things in a professional manner that is data driven, that is citizens focused, the retaliation is muted. It is more difficult for them to attack you with ad hominem attacks and to try and undermine your career path or your income streams, because, believe it or not, there is a positive pushback from the rest of society. So you have to be very clear about what your objective is. You have to come to it with good hands, as we say in law, clean hands. And you have to be objective about all leaders, whether it's in the public sector or the private sector or civil society. This is not meant to focus specifically on just an administration, because there are many public officials that are paid by the taxpayers to represent our interests, and our part intends to hold all of them accountable. Because if the opposition did a better job, then so too would the government, and vice versa. If people in civil society, religious groups, and other organizations that say they represent the public interest did a better job, then all of us would be better at the end of the day. So that is really how this is meant to operate. And already I want you to know that we have over 25 individuals who have bought into this project. It has only been a month since we fully activated, as Anarian suggested. I've been toying with this idea for over five years, and I've been engaging in different ways and developing capacity and really looking at the ecosystem to make the hard decision to move away, as I told you, from the politics, the party politics, and get involved in politics, the original meaning, which is the business of the people. So that's how we intend to deal with victimization and look at it square in its face and call upon other good citizens, because you don't need 1.5 million people to make a difference in a small island, especially. You just need a few good people who are finally willing to stand up and say, look, this is what we want for our country. This is what other people in the society are buying into, and we're going to push towards getting that right policy implemented.
[00:16:12] Speaker A: There are people who are of the mindset that you're talking about who are not satisfied with the way things are going. They don't have the forum within which they can express their views. So we're hoping, I'm assuming you're hoping that this provides that platform.
I don't mean to be pessimistic, but I know that it's an uphill task.
What you're engaged in here is not a walk in the park, because our society has been conditioned to think that if you're not a PNM, you're a UNC. And if you're not a PNM and a UNC, you're a problem, because you should be either a PNM or a UNC. That's. That's the.
[00:16:55] Speaker B: But, you know, Satish, on average, 351,000 people do not vote in each election. I've looked at the averages, right. And you know my political history. I used to be an executive member of the coP, right? And I can tell you firsthand that there is a way, there is a way to convert minds and hearts. However, you're right, it is not a short term solution, a flash in the pan. You wake up one morning and say, hey, I have an acronym vote. No, this is why our part was created, because you have to do hard. We call it walk at our part, W UK. You have to have the WS for will. You have to have the U, the unification of interests across a broad coalition. And you have to have the key, which is the know how and the knowledge to do it, but you have to commit to it over a medium to long term period, because the problems you just addressed, they were not created overnight. They are intergenerational. And I think the younger generations, like my generation, the millennials, we have to support and enable those coming up after to break the cycle once and for all. And that is why we've taken it on. But you're right, it's not going to be easy. And I want to encourage citizens to, to convert pessimism into optimism, cynicism into a broad vision, a positive vision, and make it less about us and dem them and more about you and me.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: Well, you see, that requires a greater level of patriotism.
And we don't teach our citizens to be patriotic. And that is clearly evident with the education system. We do not teach our children about who we are, where we've come from, and why we are who we are at this point in time. And we had independence recently.
If you go into the majority of school children go across by the library on Abercrombie street any afternoon with a camera, as I used to do in CNC three, and ask secondary school children anything about independence, you'll find some startling responses that they're not necessarily aware, as they should be, and that's an indictment against us.
I speak about Labor Day all the time.
Many citizens in this country just know about Buzz Butler just because we have a highway and nothing else related to the struggles of labor. And we could go on and on. We have republic coming up. People don't even understand what republic is about and whether we've met the goals that we set out to be a Republican and all those things. So I fully understand the objective. And we need, we're almost all the time, as funny as that may be, we need a greater discussion, a longer discussion, a more in depth discussion, because this speaks to the core of who we are as a people and whether we are willing to admit that we have to fix things and that there are things that need to be fixed. Because sitting on this program for as many, many years as I've been doing, and I'm sure that everybody else could tell you the same thing people say to you, that they want unbiased media, but they have no idea what unbiased media means.
Because in their minds, unbiased media is, I want you to accept my position.
That's what unbiased means to them in that PNM people won't just sit on here and cause the UNC whole day. And if for UNC people you could call the PNM corrupt, that's good. But if you stand in the middle and say, you see, two of them are, excuse me, both of them, you find yourself in problems. But there's something I'd like to know. And as I said, we may have another discussion. How do you intend to hold anybody accountable in this country? Unless you're in some sort of political space, it's impossible to get anything done. So how does our part intend to, to get the message across and to change things.
[00:20:52] Speaker B: Perhaps I'll allow Anarion to speak to that because he'll tell you a little bit about some of our projects and that will help to alleviate that concern that people have, because that is a main issue people raise. How?
It's easy for people to tell you the what, but at our part, we focus on the how.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Sure, go right ahead.
[00:21:14] Speaker C: Okay, so at our part, we have six signature projects. And it starts with what Trinidad and Tobias, you mentioned that independence was a couple days ago and we turned 62 years old. The question becomes, at a hundred years old, what do we expect Trinidad and Tobago to look like? Satish. If you and your viewers can close your eyes for a moment and envision what Trinidad looks at like 100 years old, I think you may see fresh water for all, quality education and a society where there's unity and diversification. Where our coat of arms inspire works. And with that being said, that's the first project, the TT 100 project. Now, how do we build out what that looks like is we have, at our part, we've adopted the UN goals, the sustainable goals, which falls again into the inspired 360 brand project, where they have put forward such sustainable goals that we. We'd see no reason not to adopt them. Where the inspire 360 would bring together young people, the Gen Y's, the Gen Z's, and the alphas, with the experience of the older generations to build out what that looks like. Now, you may have a thousand ideas on how to get a water for all, but all may not be feasible. So we move on to project number three, which is a spriting tank named after one of the co designers of these steel pan, Winston Spree.
And that in itself is a national think tank, where we bring together accountants, lawyers, engineers, tech persons who can now say, okay, so from this thousand ideas for water for all, we can implement, or we can engineer five to actually work, and that's project number three. So you've seen how all of them intersect. That being said, moving on, you need leaders, effective leaders, to implement the policies and the innovations that comes out of the inspire and the spree. And that's where our Justiti leadership academy trains persons on ethics, on civics, on patriotism, how to be emotional, intelligent leaders, how to be proper leaders, because we've all realized that our leaders in Trinidad and Tobago are not effective leaders.
However, moving on from there you go heading to project number five, which is the Pan su collective.
It's a combination word from the pan chiat and the Susu models, which is designed to be a center of excellence for several societies and NGO's because we can do everything through the politics or through public office. We need the help of NGO's, civil societies and persons who are working in the space. So they will now advocate, they will now go out and do surveys and things like that to build out the consensus to where we need to be.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:24:26] Speaker C: And last.
[00:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah, quickly. Yeah, let me hear the last one because we're almost out of time.
[00:24:31] Speaker C: Sorry. The last one is the land of. And because we're the land of Trinidad and Tobago, which builds that social media, that air campaign on patriotism.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Gentlemen, unfortunately we out of time because of a couple of messages take us up to the top. But we do need to have another discussion.
I'll tell you why.
Because the phones have been ringing. People want to get involved in the discussion. And I think the opportunity needs to present itself to the listeners as to is this something people think we need? Is this something people want to be a part of? And we need to delve into looking at ourselves, shining a light on the citizenry as to whether or not people identify with what's going on. So definitely gonna have another.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: They can always visit our part, ourpartt.org for more information. And as we say, if I do my part and you do your part, then together we'll do our part to build a better Trinidad and to be well.
[00:25:29] Speaker A: I'll get Melissa to do her part and get you back on the show again, thank you for having us. It was an interesting discussion, the bits that we had, and I think it augurs well for some further discussions moving forward. But that's all the time that we have.
The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5.
