POLICE SERVICE REFORM

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5. [00:00:08] Speaker B: We have Pastor Clive Dotting. Good morning to you good sir. [00:00:11] Speaker C: Oh, thank you for having me. You're such a good soul. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Ah. When I saw you there, I said, no, I'm gonna send for that guy. [00:00:18] Speaker C: You know what I call jw. I call him Brother J. But he like that, I think mob like pastor, you know, you're moving. [00:00:28] Speaker B: Jason is a good one, man. So I mean good morning to Pastor Clive Dutton and welcome back to Freedom Studios. When you are here with us, it's always a wealth of information that you are sharing with us this morning. So I know you wanted to weigh in on the Forex issue. Let's start with that. Quickly, your thoughts as to the fact that we sent home one governor because he refused to name names even though we know he's the car dealerships and these people were said in earlier news reports. And then you have Larry Hawaii, his name is back in the public domain as he's the new central bank governor, newly installed. He is also telling us I ain't coming and name no names. What are your thoughts on that? [00:01:03] Speaker C: Well, I found it made that statement number one too prematurely. You have just gone in there. All right. Give the nation a chance to breed. And secondly, when Jawaharla Rambaran was literally hounded because he did that, I was in the Senate and I think I was acting independent senator, but I think they little framed me. 2018, David. 2018. And by the way, I love, I love the father son combination. His son is right here. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Yeah, he's right here. [00:01:32] Speaker C: And we did more of that in this society. Society. [00:01:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:35] Speaker C: By the way, my, I never went out of my father, you know, never had a privilege to be taken out, you know. [00:01:39] Speaker B: Wow. [00:01:40] Speaker C: Bastard child. Mother was married to my father, grew up in one room. So I understand poverty. So the fight I fight in is because of my street. [00:01:49] Speaker B: You live it, I live it. You just talking it. [00:01:53] Speaker C: Nobody could come my office and ask for money. And if it means a little 100, I have to give them, I must give them. I live by sacrifice because I want to be a Christian, not just in name, but in function. [00:02:03] Speaker B: Well said, man. [00:02:03] Speaker C: You know, so let me go to this issue and what is bad about it? Some of the firms who get some of the, the organization get some of the largest amount of Forex, their money is shipped away. You know, it doesn't come back here to our shows. No, no, no, no, no. So we're losing twice and I Had complimented Joel Arambaran, but it was a very unpopular thing to do. But I don't weigh my comments based on popularity is based on principle. You see people popularity, but people principle too. So I want to emphasize that. So I am saying to him, I feel a sense of disappointment that the new governor of the central bank is telling us he would name the name. And you know why we don't want to do it? Because of the issue of what I call equity bankruptcy. Equity bankruptcy. If we had equity and it was a fear system and not one group have an advantage over the other groups, we would never have a fear and a reluctance to name the names. We must name them. We must name them and find out when they make their dollars. [00:03:12] Speaker B: All right, where is it going? [00:03:14] Speaker C: Where is it going? That is what we have to ask. So we talk about the school children and everybody else, but when you're looking at white collar crime so much, you know. [00:03:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Because one of the points you raised there about the fear of naming these names is because of the equity. It is not. Equilibrium is not being maintained. [00:03:32] Speaker C: No. [00:03:33] Speaker B: So they don't have that as 1, 2. When you make your money and you get your Forex and you make your profits, is it being stored locally or is it out there in Fargo and Wells and other countries? Do you have bank accounts there? Do you have savings there? Is your money there so that when you travel, you have to worry, your family travel. When you reach you get a bank account, you can get us to spend. So you're not bringing that wealth back to Trinidad and Tobago. No, but you're draining what we have and taking it out of it. So whatever little Forex we get, you are able to access it, purchase your business stocks, import your vehicles and what have you bring it into the country, sell us for the local dollar. But when you make the profits on the Forex, you're not even banking it here. [00:04:13] Speaker C: That is why you have such a preponderance and preservation and protection the three Ps of white collar criminality. [00:04:22] Speaker B: But is it that those in authority continue to have a myopic approach on. It's not them on the upstairs doing it. Is everybody downstairs? Because that is what we find. You know, we. We locking up the boys on the block. And we ain't realizing when you lock up the boys on the block, a recurrence, a new boys coming and join the block while them get older and gone. But if you cut the snake off the. If you cut off the head of the snake. [00:04:44] Speaker C: That's right. [00:04:45] Speaker B: The body will Die. That's right, because it's starving. [00:04:47] Speaker C: And. And I want to tell you, the new government must prove to us that. That it will not be business as usual. You see. Let me tell you something. Campaign finance reform. And I'm going to be after this new government with a passion. Because what I do, I do with divine passion. We don't want to hear same old same old. What we want to hear, all right, is that we're going to deal with the issues that are hurting the population. Boss, let me tell you something. The poor man can't get 50 US if he want to travel somewhere. Listen, not even 50 US Jawahar. [00:05:29] Speaker B: He named some names, right? [00:05:30] Speaker C: He named some names. [00:05:32] Speaker B: Who was the finance minister that dismissed him after column in Bert. [00:05:36] Speaker C: Yes, that's right. Same one. [00:05:37] Speaker B: And they're bringing this guy on the same column now. Want to raise issues questions for the dismissers of Hillier. You want to ask why them do Hush boy, Listen, I'm not against any one of them. It's the Same issue with Dr. Nayan Gatsby Dolly asking the Prime Minister with the new supplemental ask in parliament of 3.14 billion to carry 28 ministries and state fund state agencies to the next budget. [00:06:09] Speaker C: Right? [00:06:10] Speaker B: And I saw nothing in there about giving touching on. I mean there's a lot of issues I want to talk with you very quickly this morning on schools. And I said, but Madam mp, when you was the minister, what schools did you petition to give out? We had schools near completion, such as Korea Presbyterian. One that comes to mind. [00:06:27] Speaker C: Pure hypocrisy. Pure hypocrisy. [00:06:29] Speaker B: Listen, the school had windows, everything. I used to drop my children there at a point in time before they moved. And then the thing about it is when I passed by by that same area, you know, all your windows gone, people raid and loot. [00:06:39] Speaker C: Of course, of course. [00:06:40] Speaker B: It's just the. The concrete structure there and that was outfitted with windows and ceiling tiles. It's going. But you was in governance for five years under the Rowley slash Stewart Cheung administration. But by and large, I'm happy that you're in support of the names being named. I disappointed with Larry Hawaii. I agree with you on the prematurely the premature pronouncement coming from him. But let's talk a little bit about the five teens the that was held. What are your thoughts in the charges being levied and laid against these five teens? Charged with assault, occasional occasioning bodily. Actual bodily harm. So they got two charges each. Five of them or if that's a hallelujah hallelujah. They are all. They went. The parents actually accompanied them as they went in. WPC Budo of the Kuva police station. I want to say good morning to her for doing such a very, very thorough investigation and getting. Because there was a time when they couldn't find them. They're looking for these girls. [00:07:40] Speaker C: Well, I want to say something. [00:07:42] Speaker B: Go ahead. [00:07:43] Speaker C: Why they couldn't find them? They're not in school because under the barrel of a gun, and not only. [00:07:49] Speaker B: That, they were identified and suspended. The ministry was able to identify the five. They found them and take them off the school system. You are suspended. How the police can find it? [00:08:00] Speaker C: Exactly. So it means, you see, this issue of school violence and this issue of where we. Protecting the wicked from the righteous rather than the righteous from the wicked is a serious thing, I heard, with one issue, not this one, but one of the issues involving heavy school violence. Hello. I witnessed what happened in our school in Tobago Secondary School. The guard tried to intervene to push her down. All right? And part of the reason is those children, some of them are protected. And I heard an experience recently because I In the schools, you know, I ain't talking like no armchair academic from UE or utt. I in the schools, nothing. Theory, practical, practical. And you know what happened There was a victim of bullying and heavy school violence. You saw what happened in another case where the gear was bleeding through her nostrils and it's still kicking her. [00:08:55] Speaker B: Clumps of hair left in the bathroom floor. [00:08:57] Speaker C: Could you imagine that? No, no, no. What is happening is that parents, some parents of the perpetrators, all right, of those who are the violent ones, threaten the appearance of the victim and tell them you will see what will happen to you if you go to the police. [00:09:16] Speaker B: And this is my main concern. I'm happy that you mentioned that. What about the parents who are perpetuating and perpetrating and propagating these students to do these things? [00:09:25] Speaker C: It is horrible. It. It is horrible. And let me tell you something. Attorney Phelps always says, when you don't follow the laws of the land, you're going to have the law of the jungle and anarchy will take over. And that is what is happening. I have a case right now. This may shock you and shock your listeners. I mentioned it at CNC3, where you have mothers who are pimping their children out to gang leaders and drug dealers. And as I said earlier on, a lot of our young girls, they love. Some of our young girls, they love the bandit lifestyle. And a parent came to me, said, pastor, let me Tell you something. I want to tell you this. There's some young girls, they only enjoy sex with gang leaders when the gun is exposed. I talk about a literal gun of the gang leader. It's like the parent told me, like the gun provides an adrenaline rush during sex. And we are that girl being killed near to where I live. Savannah Dyer, 20 years old. She was dumped in Carson Field. Are you hearing me? [00:10:39] Speaker B: I'm hearing you. [00:10:40] Speaker C: What manner of guy would do that? What. What is. And I saw videos with this sign, the V sign, which has become a very prominent sign for some gangs in the country. And let me go to the region there, sir, I spent the whole month of May in St. Lucia. [00:10:59] Speaker B: I know you was out of the country. [00:11:00] Speaker C: Six and seven gangs in secondary schools and primary schools. And I went to some of the schools and I confess confronted the young people hook, line and sinker. I confronted them, if you please. And I'm going back in September to facilitate the continuation. And by the way, I have just formed a regional task force on the issue of criminality in the Caribbean, starting with the schools. And they'd be a need your support. [00:11:27] Speaker B: You know, I was now going on tell you on your next trip, if it's a weekend, if it's during the week and I could jump on a plane and get there with you, have some symposium conference coming from Freedom. I would love to accompany Hallelujah. [00:11:41] Speaker C: Hallelujah. [00:11:42] Speaker B: And you know, speak on some of these issues that would affect young children, show them a different lifestyle, that the possibilities are endless. Gone are the days when you're looking at a DJ and radio announcer and saying, die the man you want. You're not understanding what that person is exposed to. Had I not been in this position, I would have not had the privilege of meeting plenty good folks and citizens like yourself. I've had the privilege to chat with great ones, Sergeant. But now DCP Wayne Meister and others. I met with Brent Batson and I sat, I interviewed and chatted with Winston Dukaran and so many other good ones. I met Pastor Clive Dutton. I spoke with people such as Karen Nunez Tishary and others. I met with Marianne Brown. I spoke with Rodney Childs. And the list goes on. [00:12:25] Speaker C: Yes, sir. Yet. [00:12:26] Speaker B: So it's time for me to give back and share some of the knowledge I would have acquired right here on Freedom for the last almost four years. Right here. I'm not even talking about the start of my career, just talking for right here on Freedom. [00:12:38] Speaker C: And let me tell you something. I went to Tranquility School with Love until foundation, one of our December Adventist church in dorm Till we call Love Until Foundation. [00:12:47] Speaker B: I spoke with Love until leaders as well. [00:12:49] Speaker C: Listen, remember what they said. They interview an 8 year old boy in Beatham Gardens and ask him what you want to become. He said, I want to become a gunman. Just like my father actually said that I want to become. You see, this is your modeling and mentorship. We need to take a good long hard look at that. We need to. I'm calling on the new government to invest more, all right? I know Mr. Dollat is a serious educator to invest more in student support services when that was established, all right? If we had a 3,000 young people being suspended, that would be plenty. Now we have 21,000 people suspended within a three year period plus. All right? That is what we have. We have no structure in this society that could cope with that overload. That is an overload. One day I sat in the St James Police Youth Club, it was about four years ago. And I would never forget what a parent who was asked to take charge of a suspension unit, all right? Because they were telling Tron, go to this particular school during this summer vacation and you'll receive some help. And that guy told me up to the night before nothing was put in place. [00:13:59] Speaker B: We had to fix that. And one of the things that. One of the things I love about what the honorable Prime Minister said in her inaugural addresses as she became PM of this country yet again was not the fact that she's seeking to bring back a sense of safety and security among school children and school within the school environment, including the teachers and principals and the staff there. But when we expel you, when we suspend you, most times you're home, you're going out on the streets, your parents had to go to work. [00:14:30] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:14:32] Speaker B: What the Prime Minister is saying is that you still have a chance to learn. We want to find an institution. So while you're on expulsion because we must remove you from the school because you have, you're harassing and bullying students who want to learn. So I take you out, but we're not leaving you. We're going to put you here. You're going to learn something still. We're going to find out what your academic skill set is, if it have any at all. And then we can get to the vocational part of things with you. But we're going to help you. And that's what the government is saying. You know, the alternative is not just expulsion and done for life, you know, but we'll still be Charging you, you're going to be arrested, charged, you're going to face the law. But outside of that, we're looking to still help you and rehabilitate you. And that is the most important thing. [00:15:09] Speaker C: I got from this Sergeant J.C. smallart. Means a good one. [00:15:12] Speaker B: Serge Isaac. [00:15:13] Speaker C: Good one, Sergeant. Good one. [00:15:14] Speaker B: Small And I used to do a program here called Police and you. He gets busy. Big one. [00:15:18] Speaker C: So two police, Rondell Fields, another good one, and myself went into Tabakit Composite School. We were called here because the, the, the, the, the counselor and the principal felt a need for guidance because they were having some challenges. When we were finished, a lot of young people rushed us. They said we, we really want to do better, you know, we ain't enjoying what we're doing, you know. Now hold a minute. What drives my passion is that I have views of reality that are different to a lot of people. I am the one believe strongly that 90% of all young people want to do what is right. And if they get the proper mentoring and the proper modeling, they will shock you by the positive contribution they will make in this society. And let me tell pastors and imams and pundit something here. We are always stronger together. [00:16:08] Speaker B: I, I jump in on that train. Let's take a call quickly. I want to share this conversation. We have about 20 minutes again to go. Good morning. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Good morning, Davey. And good morning, Pastor Dutton. Hi, Pastor Dutton. The problem in this country has to do with the people who's governing the country, the legislators. I would say to you again, as I've said ad nauseam over the last 30 years, we do not have a police service. When you were finished with your Rodwell Murray inquiry, Gordon Draper said, let's create a police management board. Up to today, we do not have it. You know why they had gangs running around the country? Because there's nobody there to extract them from the society. They are compromised. And until we change that, until we build a serious change in that, it's not going to happen. The last time the UNC was in opposition, they were pussyfooting all the time with that. Now they're in government. I want to see you lead the charge to tell them we want police service reform. Because the PNM has said that any serious legislation brought to the parliament, they would support it and make sure that it works so that when we could have a proper police service in this country, right, we're going to have a better country. We're not going to have gang leaders running communities. That not going to happen. Because the police Service is highly compromised. Look, we just had a couple of days ago that said there was a vetted unit of the police service that was successful assisting in a seizure of 160 kilos of coke, but left the country by boat. That is what we need. We need persons who are vetted and persons who are serious in the police service. So what you can do for us, Pastor Dutton, and I hope it doesn't take five years, I hope it takes five days, is lead the charge for serious police service reform in this country that has to come from the legislators. You have a new commissioner, but he served the same poison chalice as all the commissioners before. And he will have the same challenges to deal with. And the result is not going to be different under the same situation. Last thing I want to leave with you. I heard somebody talking about the schools the government left and all of that. The last minister of finance had to make a choice between grand up and a new school. Thank you. [00:18:30] Speaker B: Very. Let's take. Let's listen to this, this message. [00:18:33] Speaker D: Good morning, Davy and Pastor D. Morning. [00:18:36] Speaker C: Morning. [00:18:37] Speaker D: I am of the view that the names and pictures and circumstances of convicted minors should be published when they are convicted, not when they are charged. Because, you know, it could go either way and they are minors, but when they are convicted, I don't see what's the big secret anymore because now they have been deemed to be a criminal. Right. And why are we protecting criminals to the detriment of. Of the rest of society? We should protect society from criminals. [00:19:13] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:19:14] Speaker B: All right, thank you very much. Now, I, I want to somewhat disagree with the names of minors. I mean, this is law. We can't talk about them at the age. [00:19:22] Speaker C: Yes. [00:19:22] Speaker B: You know, that's, that's a legal. That's a legislative law that had a change in parliament. So we, we still. [00:19:27] Speaker C: Not the pictures. I'm saying no to that. [00:19:29] Speaker B: No, no. [00:19:30] Speaker C: That's overexposure of the. [00:19:31] Speaker B: Of a child. It's still. Yes, they're committing crimes and they're already being arrested and charged and facing the full brunt of the law. But keeping them suppressed in their identities, I am still in support of that. Once they get charged and once you hold them and they no longer dare to disrupt the school system, I'm fine with that. [00:19:47] Speaker C: And let me tell you something, David. They're already exposed because they're social media. [00:19:51] Speaker B: We don't know who it is, so. [00:19:51] Speaker C: We don't have to emphasize on that. All right. [00:19:54] Speaker B: So I mean we slowly getting to the top. And we have another topic. We Want to touch on as well, let's talk about DCP Suzette Martin. A lot of calls came for her to be suspended. She's not. I wouldn't say she's not a person of interest, but she's not a suspect at this time. Based on the last reports that we got, she's been investigated. Now, the newly installed Police Commissioner is saying that he, it is beyond his remit to suspend a police officer. That falls under the purview of the Police Service Commission. [00:20:25] Speaker C: Sure. Well, I'll go into that. [00:20:26] Speaker B: So let's get to whether Alistair Govero, the new appointed Commissioner of Police, does he have the remits within his office, within his framework, to suspend an officer? And talking from junior to executive, or is it that solely the role of. [00:20:43] Speaker C: Discipline of the First Division is a remit of the Police Service Commission? [00:20:48] Speaker B: And the First Division means what? [00:20:50] Speaker C: The First Division. You're talking about the issue of, I believe, inspect after the sergeant, Inspector Reiter. [00:20:57] Speaker B: So from sergeant, go up, not sergeant. [00:21:00] Speaker C: That sergeant is still in the first, in the Second Division. [00:21:02] Speaker B: So after, from inspector. [00:21:04] Speaker C: Yes. [00:21:04] Speaker B: So from the role of inspector straight up to the chief. [00:21:08] Speaker C: Yes, I believe that's. [00:21:10] Speaker B: That is the First Division. [00:21:12] Speaker C: You have the dcps, you have the acps. All right, Then you have the Senior Superintendent. These are First Division people. [00:21:18] Speaker B: So these are all people. [00:21:20] Speaker C: Now, I want, I want to say that life would be very uncomfortable if a Commissioner of Police is surrounded by one who has been number one. There's been a lot of controversy. The Brent Thomas issue, the issue of the arrest of the Police Commissioner. And I, I expect, all right, the Police Service Commission to do its job. All right, the, the charges brought here are very, very serious. It involved a trip to Barbados. It involved, yes, you have the issue of kidnapping there. You have the issue where the Attorney General said and admitted that he was wrong to participate, to allow that to happen in a sovereign country. I heard the AG of Barbados actually say that. And then this government here. All right, whether it was reluctantly or not, they had to admit that there was an error here. Now, hold a minute. [00:22:19] Speaker B: Which government? This one or the previous? [00:22:20] Speaker C: The previous. [00:22:21] Speaker B: Right, go. [00:22:21] Speaker C: Now, I am saying, I am saying to you, Davey, clearly, when you have that kind. This is a serious thing. The investigation is a serious thing. And I believe tradition. All right, has shown where the best thing to do when you're on the investigation is to step aside, shushing him, wait for anybody to tell her to step aside, she should step aside, let the investigation go on unfettered, unimpeded. Minus your presence and let us get a fair result from the investigation. [00:23:00] Speaker B: Might I ask you a question, as you mentioned in that. Right. You're saying that she should move with a level of transparency and remove herself. How would this affect her salary if she decided to voluntarily remove herself from the position that she's currently holding, especially if she's not a suspect and she's just being investigated as participant in this debacle? [00:23:21] Speaker C: We have suspension with full pay. That, that is enshrined in the law. You could be suspended without pay and suspended with half pay and suspended with full pay. [00:23:29] Speaker B: Yeah, but that is if I am sent on suspension by my, my, by my, my leaders. [00:23:34] Speaker C: I don't think it makes a difference. [00:23:37] Speaker B: So what are you saying? I could suspend myself and get full pay? [00:23:40] Speaker C: You could step aside and the authorities will determine how they will play with that. But in this case, I believe to ease the peers, it's not the first time somebody get in suspension with full pay and it will allow the process of the investigation to move on unimpeded. And if I were Commissioner, I would feel very. It would be an awkward what scenario for me. [00:24:06] Speaker B: All right, well, let me give you part here. Of the police. The law of Police Service Commission and how they can use it on section 123 of the Constitution 6 provides for the purpose of subsection B, the Police Commission shall have the power to call on the commission of police to produce documents pertaining to financial, legal and personal matters in relation to. To the police service. The top cop or the Commissioner of Police can appraise the Police Service Commission for of the investigation. So you let them know in legal notice number 218 of 2015 and legal notice 219 of 2015, the Police Service Commission have the powers to remove from office and exercise disciplinary control over persons holding or acting in the offices of Commissioner of Police and the Deputy Commissioner of Police. So the CPO is correct in saying that the Police Service Commission have the sole power to act, which is what you said. Now the grounds for suspension suspected misconduct or indiscipline. If an officer is suspected of engaging in misconduct or indiscipline, the Police Service Commission can not sha but can suspend them. So my thing on this whole matter now is the fact that she's been invested investigated she is not a suspect. What is the difference with a person of interest and that of a suspect? [00:25:31] Speaker C: Well, I believe if, if you. Well, the thing is it's a very fine line there. You know, it is a very fine line, but given the, the gravity of the scenario, I believe. Clearly I agree with the callers. All right. That a suspension should take place because you're dealing with first division or you're not dealing with second Division. You First Division. And allow the inquiry to go on. We have done that countless times. It is like almost at the law of nature that you have to operate in that way. And if I was Suzette Martin, I would feel very uncomfortable being there too while the investigation is being carried on. Letting it go, let it flow. All right. And if you are innocent of the charges, the truth will come out. Because I would say you could stop a tsunami, but you can't stop truth. You know, that is a dot IN NIGHT expression. I didn't get that from anywhere but God. You could stop a tsunami, but you can't stop truth. [00:26:36] Speaker B: Hello. Good morning. Good morning. All right, I see the calls coming through. 625-2257. The thing about it is if I. All right. Nicole is coming back. Good morning. [00:26:47] Speaker E: Yeah. I want to congratulate. [00:26:53] Speaker B: Pastor Clive Dalton. [00:26:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:56] Speaker E: Iro for doing a good job. This is a man of peace and I'm wishing all these persons to use it. As a Christian, I find. Now here's the thing, big man thing. You know, I can understand when a parent someone the victims, the victim in a funeral, just some priests can say the family have forgiven. Somebody cannot forgive. God is the man to forgive the perpetrators. And I cannot forgive. You can't bust down my door, rape my wife, rape my 13 year old, kill my son. Right. And laughing and mess up the place and pelt in your face and the petty victim face. That is not going to happen. I tell you, you have to stand consequences. The Bible says you'll be 40, 70 times 7. God's point of view if you disable it, you can't be run doing wrong things running into Sunday and I can go to work. So. [00:27:50] Speaker C: All right. [00:27:51] Speaker B: All right, buddy. Thank you much. I hear that. Hello. Good morning. Good morning. [00:27:59] Speaker F: You and I will have a conversation where that is concerned. [00:28:05] Speaker C: It's. [00:28:05] Speaker F: Sorry, it's. It's low. [00:28:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:07] Speaker C: Go ahead. [00:28:07] Speaker F: I'm sitting. [00:28:11] Speaker C: Yes, hi. [00:28:12] Speaker F: Yes, hi. Good morning. [00:28:13] Speaker C: Morning. [00:28:14] Speaker F: This administration, as you said, we are taking these young ladies to court and if they are charged, what is the next procedure from that? Then they're going to be suspended from school because they can't go back to school. Now they are now how to put it. Don't know that now they're going to have something against their name. The past administration was rehabilitating the Boot camps and the youth camps. I have not heard anybody under this administration tell us about all those program that Foster had for the youths. They're not telling us anything. My suggestion is that for these young ladies, because they are young ladies and to the young men who may end up there because we've been doing this thing over and over again and we keep getting the same results and we're not getting any better. When you go to court now and you are found either guilty, instead of you go home, I would like you to go to boot camp. There's a teacher, you continue your education, you can go home. And based on your behavior and how you progress there, you can either depends on the duration of your sentence, you can be rehabilitated back into your school system. And the thing against your name over after a period of time based on your behavior, because you will have some way that you go and report to the boot camp and your parents. And based on your behavior that could be expunged. So when you get older, you will not be carrying this incident on your name to prevent you from becoming a. Or getting a better job. Don't you think that's an excellent idea? [00:30:03] Speaker C: Well, I must tell you. [00:30:04] Speaker B: Thank you very much. [00:30:05] Speaker C: Yes, I, I love the idea of after a period of time and you show change that the, the. It should be expunged from your name. I love that because we have to be there for young people. But clearly they have to face the consequences. They'll be tried in the children's court like these five children here. And I know that the, the courts will exercise balance and stability and nobility in whatever sentence they get. Because we have to, we have to rehabilitate these young people. I am all for them facing the consequences of their action. But they must not be cut off from a form of education and training. I agree to totally. There must be education and trading while they go through that gap because of their misdeeds, so to speak. I agree that completely. [00:30:56] Speaker B: All right, take another call quickly. Good morning. Okay, the call is there. All right, the call went. So in conclusion, let me just get this voice note in very quickly before we wrap. Your news is coming up. [00:31:07] Speaker G: Good morning, everybody. I think with these, in terms of these young ladies, they should pay for what they do. In terms of they should know from now if you do a crime, you pay for it. And there's something called ytc. Send them to ytc. Charge them and send them to ytc. Because every action has at equal an opposite reaction. They should learn that while at young why. [00:31:34] Speaker H: Morning everybody. What Barataria is suggesting that there must be no consequences for when wrongdoing occurs. The fact of the matter is parents need to come out and train their children that if you do X or you do Y and you are found to be guilty, there will be consequences. Let me ask Bharatari a question. When somebody commits murder, is that not on their record? They will forever go wrong with that on their life itinerary. It's always going to be there. It's always going to be there as a reminder. Barataria needs to understand and parents need to understand that they cannot expect their children to go outside there and do wrong and not expect there to be consequences. So whereas I saying rehabilitation should be there for the kids, the fact of the matter is if you take matters into your own hands, if you become that violent towards society, then you making your bed. [00:32:36] Speaker B: And one more before you respond. [00:32:38] Speaker I: Murray, good morning to you and Pastor doctor. [00:32:41] Speaker C: Morning. Morning. [00:32:42] Speaker I: What I am saying right, is what if this child had died because of that beating? [00:32:47] Speaker C: Wow. [00:32:47] Speaker I: What have been the, what would have been the consequences of it at that time? What would people be saying no, you know, if that poor child had died because of the brutality of these five girls? Well, you know, pastor daughter, you can shed some light on that. [00:33:02] Speaker C: Please, quickly, before I think I have about half a minute. I have always said that we wait until a tragedy before we act and we do sustain the action after the tragedy. And therefore I have said we were waiting on a child to die before we act. I have said that before on countless occasions when they kicked that child, not this last case here, but a few cases before and the child was bleeding and they were still kicking her. I said we want somebody to die before we act. So I'm glad there is action. I'm glad the prime minister and the Commissioner of police on the same page. And I see a certain alacrity, a certain speed that I appreciate right now. Thank you for having me, Dave. [00:33:46] Speaker B: Of course. Always, always a pleasure. [00:33:49] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.