Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: This time we get into another one of those thought provoking interviews. Welcome to our program, political leader of the party known as Hope. That's Timothy Hamil Smith. Good morning to you.
[00:00:19] Speaker A: Good morning. Takish. Good to speaking with you. And welcome.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Nice to have you with us on our program here this morning. A lot of developments recently that we need to discuss. One of those, an announcement that there are discussions between the NTA hope cop about forming some sort of alliance, some sort of structure to contest the next general elections. Let's begin our discussions there. What's going on and how far are these discussions?
At what stage are they and what's the intention?
All right.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: So we've met over the last three weeks together.
We have a work program which we are working through systematically on developing a common sort of position in relation to a number of issues.
One of the things we particularly wanted to ensure is that we had a solid foundation on which we could all agree and hence the reason for ensuring that all the parts of this program are put together in a way that the ultimate outcome will be something solid and viable.
And, you know, it's hard to predict exactly when we've reached that point. But we're meeting, we meet Saturdays. We meeting this Saturday again, which will take us another level, as it were, and I think it generally very well.
We have some common programs together. You would have seen on Saturday, the memorial. We were all there together, and we have a couple other programs coming up where we have joint efforts to participate in events.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: These developments are very interesting for several reasons.
One of those, I think most importantly, is how they're going to play out for the general election, because the NTA, Gary Griffith said that they're in discussions with the UNC, and you have others saying that they're in discussions with this one and that one and the next one. But as you told us already, it's pretty early in the game to determine what sort of role would be played as a result of these discussions in the general elections.
What is abundantly clear is that these discussions are taking place with persons who are opposed to the PNM, because I ain't nobody talking with the PNM. And the PNM is the kind of party that the PNM goes alone, win, lose or draw, and that is going to remain constant moving forward. But it's the players on the other side who are trying different things, having discussions and trying to flesh out, well, how do we approach this thing?
And that's an interesting development because as I said, it's going to impact on how the general election plays out.
I don't want you, I don't think you will give us nitty gritty as to what you're discussing, but what are some of the objectives of these discussions?
[00:03:46] Speaker A: I said, you know, the reason why we taking our time and building a foundation is because we don't want to what happened in the past to reoccur and I think the public deserve that. You want to know that any joined up efforts, if you should put it that way, has a solid foundation where people see eye to eye on what policies the parties want to put forward, how we implement those policies. And Trinidad and Tobago deserves that we have.
When you come, it's not just you want a meeting of the minds and hearts and not just a gathering of forces, as it were, without any vision, a common vision with common policies. And that's why we're particularly taking doing this step by step in order to build a foundation.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: The support for these entities and these discussions, where is it expected to come from?
[00:05:06] Speaker A: Well, certainly, you know, the parties who are meeting are all perhaps outgrowth, if you like, from the cop which had a very going back in 2007. Of course it didn't win any seats, but it brings to the table an independent voter and that is a particular voter that wants to see policy. It just doesn't want to, you know, jump up and wave a flag type of approach to the politics.
And to convince that section of the voting public, you have to demonstrate that, one you will have, you have sound policy, one you have ideas about turning around the economy.
I don't think anybody's going to doubt this, that the economy is facing a very difficult situation where oil and gases has reduced our revenues.
You know, if you're, if your revenue base where you account for 50% of your income is eroding, you know, then you do have to approach this financial economy, how you grow your economy in a different way. We can't do it the same way and as we perpetually done it, diversifying economy. I mean we've been hearing that for, you know, many times. At one point, if you recall, the prime minister was mockingly saying, you know, opposition politicians are always going diversified, diversify, diversify.
And of course that's come back to halting because that's exactly what Trinidad and Tobago needs. We have to tap in to every single stream of revenue that will build our financial position. We had oil or gas and oil, both oil and gas. Of course. We are price takers. In that particular environment, the prices dependent upon what the foreign market calls for. And of course, it has a lot of variable in it. And we should have never put all our eggs in that oil and gas basket. Not that oil and gas is unimportant. You must, you know, benefit from it to the maximum that you can. But because you have that, you don't leave out all the other elements of your and treat it as, you know, what you might refer to as bastard Turan.
That's how the PNM have approached the.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: Question of diversification in these discussions that we have with political entities. It's always, there is always focus on the job that's being done by the administration of the day. And of course, there are some who suggest there's a lot that's still needed to be done. It's not being done for whatever reason, but in order to get anything done, you have to be in office.
And the three entities we're talking about, the NTA, the cop and hope, are all claiming to be representative of this segment of the electorate that votes on issues. Some people call them the swing voters, some people call them the floating voters, and they've been categorized by a number of people in different ways. But regardless of how they've been categorized, it's always an underlying point that it does not seem to be a demographic that can stand alone.
What do I mean by that? I mean that this swing voter, floating voter, whatever needs to attach itself to either the PNM or the UNC for a decisive result in any election. And the Congress of the People in 2007 was a classic example of that, 140 something thousand votes. And they couldn't win a constituency simply because there were too many variables with the other parties, UNC and PNM. Fast forward to 2025. We're going to have. It's expected that you may have the very same result, that there is going to be some reliance and either the PNM or the uncle for this voting bank, this segment of the voting population, to make any kind of difference. So if we had to take that into the discussion that the floating voter, former cop voter, the voter who votes on issues and so on, is not enough to win an election, or may not even be enough to win a constituency, how does that factor into plans to get into government? Is it that any amalgamation between these three entities is going to have to work with somebody else?
[00:10:22] Speaker A: All right, so let's start. I mean, you mentioned that these three entities were all looking, heading for the same demographic, which makes a good reason that we should come together as one, rather than further subdivide that demographic. So that's a, you know, that's a mere reson debt for why we are talking in terms of the actual.
I hear your point about winning of seats, despite amassing across the country significant percentage of votes. That is something that is a challenge, but it's a challenge that also brings with it benefit. One of the things, certainly from the UNC's perspective, history has shown that they have not been able to win an election without the assistance of that demographic.
The more important thing is that, you know, because certainly our past tells us the PT government did not do as well as it ought to have been. And therefore, in fact, by the time 2015 came around, it couldn't hold together to win that election. I think, you know, frankly, I think the UNC thought they could do it on their own, even though, you know, history has said otherwise.
And therefore, a lot depends on the openness of UNC to collaboration, if that be necessary. I'm not sure, you know, I know you say the PLM have a history of going it alone, you know, a win alone and a lose alone. That was a statement made by Mister Manninger. I have not heard Doctor Rowley say that in the last nine years.
I don't think that same sentiment prevails. And therefore, I think that people, you know, in the PNM understand that there's a shift in of the ground. Certainly there's a lot of. They are the party in power. There's a lot of angst in the electorate about what is happening, particularly in relation to crime. I don't think that anybody believes that the PNM can tackle crime.
And if that is the biggest issue facing us, I think the party that brings to the table the advantage of the technique, know how, ability, political will to tackle crime, will in fact be the cornerstone of any, of any party going forward.
And certainly the three parties put together bring different dimensions of how crime has been to be tackled.
And I think we have far and away from any other party, including the UNC.
Both the policies and the implementation, of course, is equally important. Because if you can't implement policy, then it doesn't matter at the end of the day.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: Yeah, okay.
In every election there, there is always one issue that is described as the big issue in which, you know, citizens need to adjudicate before they cast their ballot in 2020. We were discussing Covid.
Covid-19 Covid measures, COVID lockdown, Covid this, that, the next and the other. And Covid was the matter that then in the election we were told that the administration of the day would have been judged on, but they won the 2020 general elections.
And let's fast forward to 2025. We're being told that crime is going to be the major issue that the population will have to adjudicate upon when casting a ballot.
History shows that these major issues, while we are told, should be a decisive fact. It doesn't necessarily turn out that way. Because if at the worst criticism of the PNM during that time, they could still win an election, what makes anyone think that crime is going to be such a big issue that the PNM is going to be on the back foot when it comes to the voters? And, okay, aside and apart from that, there's the other element of numbers. Elections are a numbers game.
And at this point in time, the numbers for the P and M remain resolute because nobody's. I don't think the campaign is to get the PNM supporters to support anybody else, but let's just look at the number of people that are going to be competing against the PNM. Well, obviously you have the UNC. They're going to contest in 39 constituencies. They don't ever contest Tobago. I don't know if they will. Then you have the NTA. Gary Griffith has said that. Well, listen, he going after. I don't know if he has said everybody, but he has signaled St. Joseph, which is interesting.
You have parties like the pep that have said they go in and contest the elections. You have Makayla, Panda and Patriotic Front say they go and contest the elections. And now we have hope and the Congress of the people and all of these other entities forget independence, who are all contesting against the PNM.
So if I. And looking at it from that statistical standpoint, if I was in the PNM, I wouldn't be bothered to campaign because I am positive that my vote is going to be as strong as ever because nobody going after my vote. And all I need is just a couple people here and there to vote for me and I basically win the election again.
So. So how does all of these factors play into a game plan to win the next election? By, let's just say this amalgamation of the three, the NTA, the hope and the cop. Is the intention to win the election or is the intention to become such a force that parties like the UNC don't have a choice but to sit down and talk to earlier?
[00:17:21] Speaker A: All right, so, I mean, I don't want to reveal all our tactical measures that we intend to take in order to achieve the end objective, which is always to be in government, to have that position from a position where you can implement the policy that you have.
So the time is not right for having that discussion. I understand your concern. I don't think I agree with you that Covid was not a big issue in our 2020 election. In fact, Doctor Rowley would boast that he saved the country.
That's the terms in which he saw it. And people were still very much fearful.
I don't know if you appreciate the amount of anxiety in this society. And frankly, I think the UNC had a very bad campaign just where that was concerned. If you're talking about, you know, sunshine gonna kill Covid and punch on lime, I mean, that was the height of nonsense that turned off a huge sector of the population.
And you also had, you know, the thing with the piggy bank and stuff like that. I mean, how much worse can you get? And therefore, you know, you have to have a program that is solid, that stands up to scrutiny and you can't just run anything that comes to your mind in making your campaign and the platform for your campaign. So I do think that, you know, a lot of the losses that occurred 2015 and 2020 were self inflicted.
And what, what the three parties, if you like, so we call it that in an alliance or approach in an alliance want to do is to bring a solid foundation that will not be, you know, civilized position. But therefore I think crime is on the minds of everyone. The truth is that unless you get a handle on crime, then the economy can't grow because nobody is going to invest in that environment.
So it is pivotal to the country that the government, the next government we have understand how to tackle crime and have the will to do it. I think it would really appear from where I stand that the government right now do not have a political will to go after crime. I mean, these measures that you see, I mean, so everybody says, well, the police aren't doing anything. So you decide to have roadblocks, really?
Now you decide to go after tint. Is that really, you know, getting after the criminals? Those are all measures, yes, of visibility, but they're nothing really get into the source and the heart of the problem. And the truth is that tackling crime is a multifaceted approach that you have to take.
It is not only challenging the criminal upfront, but it also means that there's something in our society that has gone wrong that, you know, indicates it.
Generation after generation. This gangster is almost grows.
Then something is dreadfully wrong somewhere. And you have to tackle it. That perspective as well, which, which is a generational issue, that type of crime is not going to be cured overnight.
But unless you start planting the seeds, which will create from an education perspective, from a society's perspective, a different approach. We are just going to be treading water into the land and Tobago and Sydney, shall I call it the alliance of these three parties.
One of the. I don't think anybody would challenge us to say that one of the dominant positions that we hold relates to how to tackle crime or tackle crime frontally tackling the issues that allow for crime and gangs to just mushroom in our society.
So we bring a rare strength. We bring the strength that relates to how to tackle the very heart, the most difficult problem facing tundal today.
If other parties see and recognize that this is what NTA hope and cop bring as a real.
Not to mention, of course, along with that is impacted plans for how to. How to grow the economy.
And, you know, it does mean you have to have different revenue streams. You can't simply depend on a single revenue stream to take you out of what, you know, the danger that we are in.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, we need to take a couple of messages.
But when we get back, we'll be opening our phone lines as well. To get the views of some of our listeners as to exactly what it is we're talking about. For those of you who may have joined the conversation midway, we are speaking this morning with our very special guest. Guest, and that is the political leader of hope, Timothy Hamill Smith. Stay with us.
Welcome back. We are speaking this morning as political leader of hope, Timothy Hamill Smith. Let's take a couple of your calls, emphasis on brief.
Hello. Good morning.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Good morning.
[00:23:58] Speaker C: Sadish. Sadish. I want to ask your guests, all of these small parties that are popping up all over the place, they stand not as close of a chance of winning anything at all. Why don't they expand the same time and effort trying to work with the UNC? It would be much more productive and better for the country. Thank you.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: Thank you for your call. Let's take see we have another call before we get your responses. 625-2257 okay, let. Yeah, we have a call. Hello, good morning.
[00:24:35] Speaker D: Good morning, Satish. And good morning to Miss Samuel Smith. Mister Smith, having met you for the first time on Saturday at the July 27 event, I got the impression, and even before that, by the refined nature of your diction and by the clinical nature in which you analyze things, that.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: You are a gentleman.
[00:24:59] Speaker D: So the question I want to ask Mister Hammersmith, is this, you have been observing the UNC in the parliament of this country over the last nine years, and the way in which they approach issues, which is national issues, and in particular the issue of crimes, and the fact that they have not cooperated in order to bring good legislation to the fore so that we could treat with the issue of crime in this country. How can you think of associating yourself with a bunch like that?
[00:25:31] Speaker B: Okay, thank you so much for your call, Eric.
So you have two questions. One is, well, why don't you just join the UNC to fight the PNM? And the other is, why are you joining the UNC?
Let's get your responses.
[00:25:49] Speaker A: That's very to oppose in views, as it were.
One of the things that the first caller recognizes, I think the underlying tenor of what he's saying is the UNC can't win a loan either.
All right?
And so that if the UNC was smart, then in fact they would, they would approach the alliance to see what part they can play.
Again, it goes back to the question from an alliance point of view and from the country's point of view, that what you want to do is to put down a solid foundation.
It's not, let's get together what is literally a juve party. You want, you know, you have to prepare for these things.
And the UNC must not, must be careful, be wary of taking, you know, making programs to a point where it becomes a farce.
I think that's what the second speaker is alluding to.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Well, okay, Mister Hammond Smith, I interviewed Gary Griffith some time ago and I asked him the very same question that I'm going to ask you now.
This vote bank, if you want to describe it as the floating voter, the more discerning voter who votes on issues and all those kinds of things, the cop voter, that demographic, they've moved away from the UNC because they don't like the UNC. They don't like what the UNC represents. Or for some strange reason they can't see themselves associating with the UNC and that's why they stand alone or they sway or whatever else it is.
What, how then do you convince the public or anybody or even the same voter that you're looking for that they should support you when you are already hinting that there must be some kind of accommodation with the very same people they don't like? They've been in office with them for five years and they were treated like bastard children. Why should they avail themselves to that kind of abuse. Again, how do you now convince this vote bank that they should support you if that is your agenda?
[00:28:18] Speaker A: So really the bottom line is you saying that this vote bank is really critical to one party or the other winning the election.
All right, you know, from my perspective, I don't rule out either party. So vice UNC might appear to be the obvious party because as you mentioned in the past, certainly the parent of taking that attitude that we win alone or lose alone, that's in the past.
And therefore we don't exclude anybody for purposes of ensuring that we form part of the next government.
Yes, we will listen to all people, but we do think that we hold a critical vote that will either, if that we bring that critical vote to the election, that the party who aligns with us will win the election. Okay, but here's, that's what it comes down to.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: We're almost.
[00:29:44] Speaker A: Look, it's failed in the past and I am saying I was there, so I know what happened. And you learn from your mistakes, you learn from your shortcomings and you understand what needs to be done in order to create a sound.
If to the extent that you're going to have a coalition with another party, that you need a sound basis for it. And frankly, I think that what happened on that in the PP government, the basis was not the kind of sound foundation required in order to make sure that it stayed together. Okay, that's a big difference, but we're.
[00:30:36] Speaker B: Almost out of time, Mister Hamilton. But there's one final question that I need a quick response from you. What, what evidence do you have that, well, Gary Griffith said he showed up in the local government elections and he had so many people vote for him. But what evidence does hope have or Congress of the people have that they still command the support of this demographic?
[00:30:59] Speaker A: So that's the issue we have to demonstrate and that's our job to do.
Having said that, this, and it's why the three of us together recognize that the sum of the parts is greater than any single part that comes to the table.
And therefore, it's not just mathematics. One and one is two and one is three. It is algebra in that the sum of the parts is, is the whole is greater than any individual part that comes to the table.
And yes, that you are right. That's the challenge that we have as precisely put your finger on the pulse and say that's a challenge we have because that independent voter, that floating voter will be wary. And more reason why we need to sit down and plan this as opposed to just join forces with anybody as the first, as the first caller.
You know, you, some people may say, well, you're taking too long, but something lasting just doesn't happen overnight. It takes solid foundation to build and to know the journey that you're, you want and to be able to attract the very voter base we talk about.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Okay, Mister Hamilton, that's where we're going to have to leave it because news is upon us. But I'm sure that we'll have more discussions because this issue of the general election and what's going to happen and who's going to play what role and so on, it becomes more important closer and closer to the election time. For the obvious reason, I want to thank you for being with us here this morning and for giving us some of these views.
[00:32:55] Speaker A: Thanks very much. And I wish all you viewers, your listeners a good day today. Stay safe.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: Okay? Thank you. And that of course, ladies and gentlemen, how we end our interview here this morning. Political leader of hope, Timothy Hamill Smith. Hope in discussions with NTA, that's Gary Griffith and the Congress of the people for putting something together. What that is, it's uncertain at this point in time, discussions taking place and it's all intended at contesting the general election of 2025.
[00:33:28] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5.
