Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability, the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Good morning to you, Mr. Tilak Singh, and welcome to Freedom 106.5 FM. Good morning, good morning. Good morning.
[00:00:15] Speaker C: Good morning, my brother. And good morning to your listeners.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Thank you so much for joining us this morning and I do apologize for taking three minutes into your segment to discuss these issues, but it's big, it's very important. Now let's get right into the crux of it. Understanding. You're a lecturer at ue, you would share some insight. Now when I, when you did research on the Nelson island, you get to understand, understand it was an island, you know, came about with indentureship. Now it's always been there, but it was used for those things back in the 1800s and then into the 1900s and, and all of that. We, you know, we can all get the history behind it. But why was it significant?
Let's first of all identify the significance of Nelson island. And why was that island important to Trinidad and Tobago?
[00:00:57] Speaker C: It was important because various ethnic groups have used that island.
And the first group that many people often overlook were the first peoples. The indigenous peoples used that island for trade and fishing. Not just Nelson island, but the other five islands nearby.
So we cannot exclude them from the picture. They are the original inhabitants of the country.
And after indentureship, during indentureship, in fact, World War I, later on World War II, island was used by the British. The Spanish had it before the British temporarily. And Jews were there. So we have an ethnic, we have another ethnic group involved. Jews were there during the 1930s. Our labor icon, our hero, Tubularia Butler, was housed there for almost six years.
And during 1970s black power we had, you know, some of the detainees, including Kafra Campon and Macanda Dagger, they wore that island, you know, because of their protests during Black Power era. So the island cannot be restricted to one ethnic group until one era indentation.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: All right, beautiful. I love the way you explained that. So it's not a East Indian or Afro Trinidadian island. It's not that kind of thing. It was used right across the board. Now as we, as we, you know, get a little deeper with this in the renaming of the island, you know, why, why is that even a conversation that you think, in your learned and respected opinion, should we even consider it, would that be if we do rename the island, would that be wiping away history from our history books? Why, why should we even consider that? Why is that important?
[00:02:43] Speaker C: Well, there are two sides of the fence, the first side you could see that it's something global. We're removing colonial icons, statues, renaming streets.
[00:02:54] Speaker D: Right.
[00:02:54] Speaker C: Renaming places. But let me, let me mention something to the public that is often overlooked, and I want to bring it to the forefront.
One of our country's greatest historians of the 20th century and first Prime Minister, Dr. Eric Williams, he did not change the name of the island.
And I also want to mention that he also did not remove the Columbus statue and he also did not rename streets. And if that historian, who I respect, did not do that, I, as a junior historian, must ask myself, was there a reason why the great Dr. Williams left those places with their colonial names? And I think the public need to also look at that. Forget that he was leader of the pnm, forget his politics. Look at him as an academic and as a historian, as a patriot of Trinity and Tobago, as a proud Caribbean person.
Why did Eric Williams, trained at Oxford, taught at Howard University in Washington. Why did he leave that Nelson island as it is?
[00:04:02] Speaker B: That's a very interesting question that you raised, but if you had to answer it yourself, what would you come up with?
[00:04:16] Speaker C: I. You see, it's very difficult because people will be offended. And I feel that the name could. The name could be changed.
We could get an appropriate name to reflect the various cultures and ethnic groups. Because you also had enslaved Africans who were employed on the island to build some of the infrastructure.
So we have all ethnic groups, you know, just probably the minorities like the Chinese and the Syrians. Lebanese do not have a.
A connection to Nelson Island. So we have to find a word, you know, or a name, a label for that replacement. And that will be difficult because the very term Nelson sounds British. We hear about Lord Nelson, there was actually a Dr. Nielsen, and the name became corrupted who owned the island. Right. So we, we need to do some serious brainstorming to find a suitable name, or that's neither.
[00:05:12] Speaker B: I understand, I feel where you're coming from, but if I had to weigh in on it, I would think for me, it's neither here nor there.
And I will explain why I am not a historian by no stretch of your imagination. But in thinking about the historical facts, renaming the island does not remove the history behind it.
You know, renaming Frederick street doesn't remove who named it in the first place.
What I could. I could buy into the narrative of removing certain statues and images from persons that committed mass genocide. The persons that was dealing with things that were heinous crimes towards humanity. I don't think we need to revere such ones. So the Columbus statue, I could see the removal. Why are we building a statue to put this. Why are we celebrating him? Let's be real. But it does not take away the history of him. In our history books we would learn about him. But I don't need to walk down Independence Square and see a statue of an individual that committed genocide or slavery and all these things. I don't need to see that. I don't need to walk down and be polishing this thing and painting it every year.
I don't need that for a reminder.
I need to see Brian Lara.
I need to see Russell Latape. I, you know, Leon St. Louis and these people. You know. I need to see the national. Our Hazy Crawford stadium revamped. You know, so that's my thought.
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[00:10:00] Speaker B: Good morning again and welcome back. In case you're just joining us, we are chatting with Dr. Jerome Tiloxing, a lecturer the Department of History at UE. We're talking about the renaming of Nelson island, the state of our education system that we're going to get to in a moment and the school violence that is erupting in our schools. Now. One text is saying that didn't we as a nation remove statues of Columbus just last year from the nation's capital?
But now we asking why Nelson island should be renamed. The convenience is as is astonish. Astounding. Sorry. What are your thoughts?
[00:10:40] Speaker C: I think it's a, it's a good question.
We need to, we need to also ask another question.
When are we going to stop the renaming? Because once you start renaming people will say what about that street?
[00:10:55] Speaker B: Yeah boy.
[00:10:56] Speaker C: What about, what about the Churchill Roosevelt Highway?
[00:10:59] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:10:59] Speaker D: Two foreigners.
[00:11:00] Speaker C: Right.
[00:11:00] Speaker B: What about the King Georgie Fifth Park? I think it's now, it is now Nelson Mandela Park.
[00:11:05] Speaker C: Correct. So we have, we have many, many spaces that are still colonized that we need to decide where it's going to go. And not just Trinidad Tobago also have a lot of strange names that have to go.
[00:11:19] Speaker B: But the thing about it is, are we as a society ready for that and if we are making those changes, could we do it on a phase basis or does it have to be all at once? You know, and, and who's going to come up with these names? I mean, you now mentioned we had to find a name to reflect the multi ethnic groups that they live within. Trinidad and Tobago, you have Nelson, you can't go to East Indian, you can't go to, to Afro. Trinidadian, you can't go to Syrian, you can't go to Chinese. You know, look, we don't think we took Charlotte street, formerly known as Charlotte Boulevard and is now Chinatown.
So, so you see what I going with this Right. You have certain communities that have East Indian street names. So what we really want, we already have those things in, in different areas, you know.
[00:12:06] Speaker C: Yeah, but let me, let me add to that in that my students, almost 100% they do not care about this renaming. There's a, a lack of historical consciousness.
I've spoken to people on the street, people in the market, people selling in the groceries and the general feeling is they're concerned about the bread and butter issues, they're concerned about their unemployment, they're concerned about crime because health, they're concerned about water in their pipes.
So I want the public to also know that I spoke with five people over the weekend and three of those people talk about the morning and evening traffic from Port of Spain. Why is this not being dealt with? Right.
[00:12:46] Speaker G: They feel.
[00:12:47] Speaker C: So I'm coming there now looking like somebody who is living in la la land, disconnected, talking about a name. And there are so many real issues that people want me to raise.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: And the thing about it is that you mentioned, you hear what you now said there real issues. That's why I'm saying, you know, I could get behind even the, the Columbus ships on the money.
I think we took so long to address that we could have police dealping a long time be hummingbird. We could have do so much things. Look at, look at Kyle. Kyle is a big hummingbird. We move away from the British West Indian Airways to Caribbean Airlines.
I often wonder why we couldn't have TNT Airlines, why Jamaica have their own airline, Jamaican Airlines, you know, why we have to be Caribbean Airlines. But I understand the, the whole broader picture and the science behind the name. I understand that and I'm happy that we move away from British West Indian Airlines. You know, I'm happy about that because we know, you know, we no longer a colony of Britain. But anyway, as we move on we have so much to discuss in terms of even in the academics in our schools. You know, what are some of the things that you would like to be seen that you would like to see taught in these schools or added to the school curriculum? Syllabus.
[00:13:59] Speaker C: Yeah. My brother, let me be frank about you. I am concerned that the syllabus is not properly tailored to include students from different backgrounds and different aptitudes.
We are focusing a lot on academics. Nothing is wrong with academics, scholarships and who came first in SCA and giving out laptops. But there is a breakdown in discipline and I don't know if we should bring in. There's an old word people used to use long term civics you know, talk about morals, duties of a patriot, what it means to be a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago, caring for environment.
And I think we, we have social studies. But there needs to be more emphasis in all these schools, private, public, government, denominational, about how we conduct ourselves. Because I am hearing and reading about some of these schools and it is frightening to know this is happening in 2026.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: You know, you made a very startling. I mean we, we still have topics that we as a society who has evolved and transitioned throughout the years, see it as taboo.
It is still topics that are taboo to adults within Trinidad and Tobago. And these are real topics. And what I realize is that when we fail to balance the syllabus with academics from infancy straight up just to the brink to the threshold of tertiary education, we are creating or harbor or having individuals growing in this country only believing that if I have to be anything, I must be academics or anything else. I am substandard and below the threshold I am, I am seen as less than in society so that you, you understand where I'm. Hello, are you there?
Dr. T. Locksing.
[00:15:55] Speaker G: Hello?
[00:15:57] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm hearing you. You hear me?
[00:15:59] Speaker B: Yes, you can dropped off a little bit there.
So you know, when we're looking at.
I don't even think that it's teach so much the history of Trinidad and Tobago, the wider Caribbean in our schools. Social studies, I think it's so deep and could be and we just basically skim the surface.
But do we deal with real social issues in schools that teach children when they become adults? I remember you remember home economics, they used to do home economics. We used to say that's a girl's thing, you go down, you're baking bread and you make a cake, you know. But even home economics, I think to just scratch the surface back then, even when I went to school, you know. So what else would you like to see added to this syllabus that you think is necessary for the growth and sustainability of our youth to become right standing and I'm not going to say right standing, but upright thinking citizens in our country.
[00:16:56] Speaker C: I want to expand on that issue you brought up about home economics because when I was younger, topics like electrical and welding was for the so called junior sex and senior sex.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:17:08] Speaker C: And I wish that when I was younger my school, you know, taught that I went to the non national school and I wish that I would learn to be a plumber or a carpenter so I wouldn't have to spend so much money and look for a reliable tradesmen. So I think we need to move away from this colonial belief that manual labor and the so called trade skills are inferior in some way.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: Repeat what you just say about the. About your wish you did go to school. It's something you know, said. I don't want to repeat it for you. That you wish it had learned so that you wouldn't.
[00:17:42] Speaker C: So I. I wouldn't have to look for a reliable craftsman and I would have to look, you know. And pay what to pay so much money? Top dollar. So much money too.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: By the point. You pay top dollar.
[00:17:53] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Top dollar. Now I want to add and compound to what you just said.
[00:18:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: My son, when he was younger, he was probably about 3, 4.
[00:18:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: He threw a couple of his toy cars and some flowers, some plastic flower thing that we had there into the toilet bowl and it choked the toilet.
And I didn't know what it was that was choking it because I keep plunging and I'm like but what it is some if nothing called in a plumber. He said listen, he puts on a thing called a snake.
And he said listen, something is. I had to take off this toilet, lift this, remove this bowl.
It's gonna cost you around $800.
I said way boy, but I need it done. He said well I'm telling you, I think makes the mixy thing and the thing and put it back down. And. And Mr. Dr. T. Lock Singh. Within 30 minutes my toilet was repaired.
Wipe down. He lift off the bowl, chip it off very quickly, showed me where the choke was, cleaned it service it up, put it back down, tell me gator hour and you can use your bowl. And I was $800 less in my pocket and the man go. Anyway to do our next job I hired some carpenters to build some kitchen cupboards.
Three days work. Well a lie. Two and a half day. Three. Two days of full solid work from. From seven in the morning, seven thirty all. Also he was there and until about late late evening, afternoon about five, two days by the fourth, by the third day, by lunchtime, one o' clock he was done.
And he charged me a labor cost of $2,500. Labor, not the material. So in two and a half days, in one week. And he had another job lined up because I pay him onto somebody else and he wasn't hired him. So in one week that Carpenter left with $5,000.
Just labor.
[00:20:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: So I went to a house in Chagonas some years ago.
I saw a BMW X5. You're familiar with that brand of vehicle?
[00:20:14] Speaker C: Yeah, one of the top line cars.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: Top Line cars right parked outside and I went to do some IPTV work. I was working with another company. I went to the technician and we were running some lines and there was a plumbers there and I saw a 80 wagon in the yard and I, I, you know the plumber, the tradesman send the apprentice outside to get some bring this so and so measurement pipe and whatever you know I hear and the X5 tailgate open and if you see piping and, and, and, and glue and this and elbows and. Are you looking for the man to go in the wagon outside? The man open the X5 and pull out the pipe.
And fix the people?
[00:21:05] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It shows you where the money is now in the country in construction and those who are good with their hands.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: I, I, I thank you for highlighting that. We have a couple text messages that once they're getting on the conversation before we move on to the next topic.
[00:21:22] Speaker G: Good morning.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: I am noticing I wouldn't want to
[00:21:26] Speaker D: use the word a trend but
[00:21:30] Speaker B: sort of alarming with the level of families migrating.
All right, I don't know where you're going but let me just get to the topic morning.
Concerning the renaming of things in Trinidad and Tobago.
Let's look at the group of people who are behind everybody else and really have no interest in catching up and name everything after them and that should help them. That should.
[00:21:58] Speaker G: Morning and morning dear guests. With all due respect, I don't even think that changing the name is important. What we need to do other people is change we mindset.
Change your mindset. Let me stop being let me stop BNPNM and uncle and Indian and Africa and we start being Trinidad Tobagonian. We started stand up for we smell and do what's right for we country these names and I've been doing nothing. That's part of the history of Columbus didn't come here. We would have developed the way we developed now.
Right. If it didn't have a Nelson who had Nelson island for immigrants that come in anything would have. You know, these are parts of our history not going to change. And I'll tell you something, you see when we try to forget free history, we just become doomed to repeat it.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: I want you to talk on that point quickly before we move on to the final point this morning. Dr.
Jerome, if we try to remove our history we doomed to repeat it. What are your thoughts there?
[00:22:55] Speaker C: I have seen it happen in other countries, not just our country and we have not. Let me give you a good example. In our politics during colonialism there was a Lot of corruption and favoritism. We didn't learn from colonialism and it continued after we got independence that corruption and favoritism, nepotism. So we didn't learn from our political past and we see it in other sectors in society. The wastage that occurs in the public companies that happened during colonialism too.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:23:25] Speaker B: So we're doomed to repeat it. And finally on this topic. Good morning Morales. Hello.
Quickly.
[00:23:33] Speaker D: What the last text I said there I agree to my hundred endorsements. Let's be named. Yes, names. I look at names that are very small percentage and on the national, on the national level.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: Quickly, quickly Morales.
[00:23:45] Speaker D: We're looking at the fact that. Let's look at ideas, suggestions to developers, the best idea suggestions and the people that are capable of working and pushing these ideas and suggestions.
And we have a better country totally across the board.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: All right, well said. Thank you. Very quickly, good morning.
[00:24:05] Speaker H: I said leave the name. What are we going to do? Change Chagona's? Change Kakandi Road? Change Tanapuna? Change the others. Those are Amerindian names. They've been here a very long time. How many of you gonna change? I think this has to do with somebody who want to change the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.
[00:24:22] Speaker D: Thank you.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: Oh my goodness. But we would have seen under, under, under which government did we change Diamond Diamondvale Boulevard to Wendy Fitzwilliam Boulevard? Under which government did we remove change the name from the national stadium to the Hazely Crawford Stadium. I'm just saying. I just saying. Quickly. Good morning. Quickly.
[00:24:42] Speaker H: Leave the name alone. Nelson.
[00:24:44] Speaker D: Leave it alone, please.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: All right buddy. Thank you very much. Now when we talk about Scott School Violence, Dr. T. Lock Singh we are seeing it happening on a scale like never before.
Back then when you and I went to school, a little slap was a big thing. If I slice up our next child, you know when you see this happening, where do you think we fell short?
[00:25:04] Speaker C: There could be possibly two reasons. We got rid of corporal punishment in schools and everybody felt it was a good thing because your children were being abused.
But it gave this generation a freedom that we never experienced when I was younger and probably you, you know we, we were disciplined at school.
[00:25:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:25:25] Speaker C: But they are taking advantage of it now and they're crossing boundaries. So we also have to revisit bringing back of limited corporal punishment. And secondly, I believe that this so called generation Gen Z or genics they are.
There's a breakdown in a family unit and they don't care. They feel disconnected from the family. So I think we have to look at the family unit at home, what is happening at home and school to deal with this breakdown. You know, we might even want to look at the way in which some of the movies are violent. Some of the lyrics and the songs, you know, promote violence.
So we have to look at, you know, these issues. It's not one issue. We cannot just say it's the home. We can't just say it's the school. We have to try to see where the links are and what are causing this generation to be so violent and so quick to turn to violence to deal with issues.
[00:26:21] Speaker B: I agree with you. We need to get. We need to get. But I don't know if the corporal punishment removal or reinstation or reinstatement of it would alleviate the problem. I mean, you have parents looking and saying, don't hit my child.
[00:26:40] Speaker C: Right.
[00:26:40] Speaker B: You didn't make my child or hit my child.
Yeah, our parents back then, if the neighbor cut my tail, which happened.
[00:26:48] Speaker D: They happen.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: And my mother reach home, I gain a next wash double X. Yeah, yeah. I remember my mother had a policy. When she's not there, we had to stay inside.
My sister Davy and Rachel stay inside or stay in the yard. We go on plane and end up in the road. A car blower horn and my sister almost got knocked down while playing with the neighbor children too. The same neighbor who cut retail was playing, but her children was playing there.
And I remember the neighbor pulling us by her blaze my tail as a big brother, please. My sister cut she two children deal as well and have all our decision wrong. When my mother came home and looking for us.
Well, I don't know it done it contract signed. Because we buy the neighbor. What you're doing there and why. Why you're being told to sit down, you know. And then Ms. Mavis, God rest your soul, come and say Gil them going outside. Blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Come here licks again, you know. But he seemed just so.
I mean, I didn't grow up bad, you know. I have a call calling in here. Hello. Good morning.
[00:28:00] Speaker D: Good morning.
[00:28:01] Speaker B: Good morning.
[00:28:02] Speaker D: How are you doing? Good program, thank you. The guest on his program as well, this. This fellow face is the only TV all ever so often Dr. T. Locksy. What's his name?
[00:28:13] Speaker C: No, no. Occasionally.
[00:28:15] Speaker B: Not every time. He's a superstar a little bit.
[00:28:18] Speaker D: Most times.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: Most time, yeah, you'd be out there.
[00:28:20] Speaker D: But if I'm not trying to make you draw a genuine person.
How he has come over in terms of how he present himself is very genuine. The point that.
[00:28:32] Speaker C: Thank you very much.
[00:28:34] Speaker D: We were talking about diploma and this and that but I call him to tell my father teached me and my brother and three of us to build a whole house.
So I don't depend on no government for nothing. Because when we see we build some bricks, we had a mold billion bricks. When we don't build your bricks, it's just you had to put breast creek on it.
[00:28:57] Speaker H: So that is showing everything from start,
[00:28:59] Speaker D: from foundation to finish. So you independent calling no plumber. I know covered man. I know this, I know that until we had to go to school, you know and go secondary school, you know. So I just thank God for this fellow. How he highlighting that color in the this morning.
[00:29:12] Speaker B: All right.
[00:29:12] Speaker D: And we learned that. And then on top of that now our historian is a serious man in a. When I say well I understand the rest of people, you see when I. You study the street, I do history in school and you follow what a historian different.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: Yeah, he made some. I mean Dr. T Locksing is on point this morning.
Yeah, no, he's right there. We look into rap. We have the news coming up at the top.
[00:29:36] Speaker D: All right, all right, thank you.
[00:29:38] Speaker B: All right, quickly, very quickly, make your point.
[00:29:40] Speaker H: Good morning, Dr. Tilak Singh. There can be no such thing as limited corporal punishment. If there is, then there can be a limited pregnancy. This is one thing I always thank Kamala Passad B S for doing. It's piloting that bill in the parliament to remove corporate punishment from our schools. We must remove ourselves from violence as a way of solving problems in society. In the long term it would benefit us, we'd have less violence.
[00:30:10] Speaker B: I thank you, Dr. Deluxing. You got licks as a child?
[00:30:14] Speaker C: I got plenty licks.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: Really? You was a miserable child.
[00:30:18] Speaker C: Yes. Women are not miserable. But I'm not miserable. I get in licks too.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: Right. You have a Ph.D. right?
[00:30:24] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:30:25] Speaker B: There you go, boy. But you get licks.
Do you feel to go out and beat up people?
[00:30:31] Speaker C: I don't feel that way at all.
[00:30:33] Speaker D: Even if somebody feel that way?
[00:30:35] Speaker B: Even if somebody is against you go to an establishment and the receptionist is rude. The customer service rep is a bit rude. Do you feel like you want to slap them down and beat them with your belt? You don't feel that way?
[00:30:46] Speaker C: I don't feel that way. You know, and we have. We could defuse that situation. Sometimes you're going there and you expect a certain service.
It could be you're going KFC or you go pizza boys. You expect a delay in the service. But I wouldn't cuss and, and want to be violent. So I think it depends on the individual, how that person sees the world, the worldview.
[00:31:08] Speaker B: And, and you get legs, we get, I get plenty leg, we get legs, we play in the yard, we fall long burst, we toe bruise, we bruise, we knee, we get legs. And, and you know, I'm not saying that to go and beat up people trying. I'm not saying that. But I'm just saying this way, people like to say about violence, you're violent towards a child, so that child gonna be violent, violent. No, I don't see it that way.
Dr. Tilak Singh, thank you so much for this light, very deep and serious conversation this morning. I appreciate it. I always believe that when we finish conversating or conversing rather that persons must be able to appreciate the conversation, understand where we are coming from. And we didn't use too much of words where, you know, they might, they lose interest, they feel disconnected.
[00:31:58] Speaker C: And my brother, we must have a
[00:32:00] Speaker B: sequel to this conversation in my brain, you know, people, I know when I tell you by next week we have to do part two because the WhatsApp board is ablaze, the phone's lines are going off the hook, but I have commitments. So I thank you very much for chatting with me this morning and next week, Monday, so God, please God, we would revisit this and our sequel will be here and we'll talk a little more on history, what we want to see in these schools and we going back on the corporal punishment. We'll keep it going. Part two is coming up next week.
[00:32:29] Speaker C: I appreciate you and thank you to all your listeners and those who call in.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Thank you. Have a good morning, sir.
[00:32:35] Speaker C: You too. Bye bye.
[00:32:36] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
