Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, Instant feedback, Accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: This time we welcome to our program two gentlemen that have been with us before discussing issues related to the economy and along those lines. Let's welcome back to our program here this morning, Chairman of the Confederation of Regional Business Chambers, that's Vivek Charan. Good morning to you.
Okay, Mr. John, your microphone is muted, we're not hearing you.
[00:00:33] Speaker C: Thank you. Satish, thank you so much for having me on this morning.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Nice to have you with us. And as well we have you heard a bit about him in the news at 8 o'clock and that of course is economist Dr. Valmiki Arjun. Good morning to you as well.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: Good morning Satish. Good morning Viveka. And good morning Trailer and Tobago.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Nice to have both of you with us here this morning on a morning when we're going to look into some of the implications related to our economy and business with the state of emergency and some of the other things that are going on. Let's begin with Mr. Charan. As chairman of the Confederation of Regional Business Chambers, I'm sure that you would have been getting some comment, some feedback from your membership about, well, this state of emergency, the crime situation overall, but the state of emergency in particular and how it's impacting on business. Is it having an impact or not? What's going on?
[00:01:27] Speaker C: Well, to be honest, it's not having an impact on business. I think business as a whole welcomed the state of emergency. What in particular they welcomed was the joint patrols together with the army, which is something that business have been asking for for a very long time now. We have seen some guns taken off the street. And my thing is every gun taken off the street is a win, small win, but it is a win.
And this morning up to this morning I woke up and I told myself, you know, we're under this soe, things seem to have calmed down and well, not, you know, after. Well, we had Randall Hector, that situation with Randall Hector and that happened within the soe. But then I heard reports about in Comoto, you know, two people were victims of a home invasion, lawyers again and they were killed. You know, I'm still trying to verify that information. But I mean, so you know, as to the effectiveness of the SOE in terms of quelling crime, we have not been seeing that, despite the fact that we were hopeful that it would have. I think really, you know, what, what we would like to see is that.
[00:02:44] Speaker D: We are being told that there are.
[00:02:46] Speaker C: Things that are happening that are not.
[00:02:49] Speaker D: In papers as of yet.
[00:02:51] Speaker C: So at the end of the 15 days, you know, we eagerly await the report to see, you know, what dent and what wins, you know, this SOE has accomplished.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. And. Well, by next Monday we should have a clear idea as to what's going on because we were expecting that there's going to be this debate on the matter. Dr. Arjun, you've made some pretty interesting comments about how a state of emergency could impact us in the eyes of not just us here at home, but on the international scale. Tell us some more about that.
[00:03:26] Speaker A: Well, so first of all, it's important to note that Moody's recently visited TNT last month for a ratings review and that was done a couple weeks before the state of emergency was announced. So they would have, they would, they, I mean, they, they would have been aware that the crime situation, of course, was certainly, it was and is certainly out of hand. What's interesting to note, however, on, on a side note is that in, in Moody's report, they would have, they would have cited the report that's online. They would have cited data, I think from 2021, not recent data, but they did acknowledge the crime situation in tnt. Nonetheless, had the state of emergency been announced after Moody's was here or, sorry, during, during Moody's visit, then there's a, there's a good possibility that we could have faced a downgrade in our credit rating or at least at very minimum, an outlook revision from stable to negative.
I mean, if you really think about it, a credit rating agency, no credit rating agency in their right mind is going to say, okay, well, you have a state of emergency, but that's fine, we're going to leave your rating as it is.
I think we got lucky in that they were here just before that state of emergency was announced. Be announced. And it remains to be seen what's going to happen during the next rating exercise, especially if, if we still haven't got this, this crime situation under some form of control, if we haven't nipped it in the bud. You see, when you have a state of emergency, right, and I maintain it is warranted. It is certainly warranted. The business community certainly welcomes it, as Vivek just indicated, given the crime situation. But it is a reflection. It's a red flag for heightened social risks. Right. And of course, given that it is a reflection of certain economic disruptions caused by criminal activity, like reduced confidence, thereby limiting our potential for foreign direct investments. It dampens consumer spending as well, as many consumers might prefer to stay at home. As opposed to spending on certain non discretionary spending items. It certainly has the potential to lower tourism travels. It weakens your overall business confidence. And of course, there's another side to it where the government, they have to expend more resources to facilitate a state of emergency. Either that or they have to redirect resources from some certain areas of the budget into national security to facilitate this state of emergency. So it costs the country more. So collectively, these are factors that increase the downside risk to the country's credit profile. And had Moody's been here after the SOE was announced, it could have triggered some form of a rating downgrade or a revision to the outlook from stable to negative in the future. So unless this state of emergency shows a meaningful drop in criminal activities, which is maintained for a while even after the state of emergency is lifted, there is a possibility, a good possibility, that we could be looking at another downgrade from the credit ratings agencies. And it might not even have to be Moody's. It could be standard and pause also.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: Mm.
For just, just for general knowledge for persons listening into the program because I think it's important to explain it to them. A gentleman called and, and I'm paraphrasing, basically gave the impression that Moody's thing real good. I don't understand what people are worried about when it comes to the economy.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: See, people don't read and this is something I find, you know, it's, it's, it's not very encouraging. People, when you look on social media and see, look at comments and stuff on newspaper articles, all they look at is headlines and all they, you know, they see a brief comment by the authorities, the Minister of finance and of course the politicians in charge are going to do their very best to make things look very nice and rosy. But, but think about it from this angle and these are facts that these are not, you know, this is nothing made up. There's not an interpretation. What is a credit rating? Our credit rating primarily indicates our debt repayment capacity. In order for a country to be able to repay their debt, it hinges on their overall economic management, their financial performance.
So one can say that the credit rating implicitly gauges our overall economic management. Now, over the past decade, Moody's would have downgraded us three times, right? If back in 2015 we were Baa2, now we are Ba2, right. So that, so you've dropped three notches under Moody's and back then 2015 we were still in the investor grade region. Investor grade means that you are regarded as highly Credible to be able to repay your debts. When you are in speculative grade, they also call it junk grade. It means that you are, you are viewed as risky to be able to pay off your debts, especially in times of economic uncertainty and adverse market conditions. Right now for standard and pause, Standard and pause downgraded us for the last 10 years from grade A to now triple B minus. And triple B minus means that we are in the very last notch of investment grade. So another downgrade will put us in a junk grade region like Moody's. Now these multiple downgrades, they just don't happen out of thin air. They reflect heightened concerns about our economic resilience, our fiscal sustainability or fiscal performance and our capacity to manage shocks very effectively, these external shocks very effectively. And that's evidenced by the fact that we have a nine year fiscal deficit that is exceeding 69 billion, meaning that in the last nine years we would have spent $69 billion more than what we actually earned in revenues. We have a national debt burden that has surpassed 143 billion. We have a $4.3 billion drop in our foreign exchange reserves over the last 10 years. And of course our forex reserves are artificially being propped up because we borrow money from abroad and put it into the reserves or we take out money from the HSF that's in US dollars. So we have to put that into the reserves. Right? So to me this, this, the, the fact that Moody's has not changed or adjusted the, the, the credit rating is nothing to be proud of because we still are in the junk status, we are still in the speculative grade status and things are not rosy in the economy as the, the, the authorities may seem it to be. I'm seeing the Minister of Finance. He would have indicated that Moody's spoke highly or well of our diversification thrust. What diversification thrust? Show me where this diversification is when we are still relying on the energy sector. The energy sector accounts for about 30 to 40% of our economy. The energy sector accounts for the bulk of our foreign exchange earnings traditionally, which is why the primary reason why we are in this forex crunch right now because of the downturn in the gas production. So our export earnings are not as healthy as they ought to have been. Now I have to give kudos to the government as well because some time ago they would have renegotiated gas prices by using now using instead of the Henry Hub, which tends to be a lower price, they're using now a basket of international prices. So that has somehow that has somewhat pushed the prices a bit higher than what we're getting. Had that not been done, I shudder to think what our gas revenues from exports would have been. But they still not are as high as they would have been in previous years or forex earnings, especially from the energy sector. Again, energy sector accounting for between 30 to 40% of the overall economy.
It is not as healthy as it ought to have been. The confidence in the economy is not as high as we would like it to be either. And that has caused several entities that are net owners of foreign exchange not reinvesting at least a portion of that money back in tnt. They prefer to invest it abroad or hold onto it or even use some of it to supply to the black market because they're earning more funds, they're earning more returns and they have more confidence in the foreign markets. And of course in the black market, when you take your US and you sell it there, you're getting more money, more TT dollars. Right? Because they prefer to do that as opposed to take the said US dollars and reinvest it here in the local economy. In fact, if I look at the central bank data and I could tell you that there's something in our external accounts that is known as the international investment in foreign assets. So what that means is for the benefit of the, of the listeners is that it is when business entities, the individuals, etc. In the country invest in things like stocks and bonds, properties, etc. In the foreign markets in the last 10 years that figure increased by over US$6 billion, right? That is 6 billion U.S. why was that not? Why did they not choose to take that money and at least invest half of it in tnt?
And when I look at the figure for the investment by the foreigners in tnt, in tnt, in the TNT financial markets, in the TNT real estate markets, et cetera, that figure only increased by $1 billion in the last 10 years. Compare 6 billion going out compared to 1 billion coming in.
Right? And that $6 billion could be even higher. Because the accounts are not robust. Many investments still go unaccounted for. We have to look at plugging these types of leakages by creating a more attractive domestic investment environment for the private sector.
That is one way and just one way because there are many others that we can look at to not only earn foreign exchange, but these pillover benefits in terms of being able to re improve our credit ratings as well and by extension enhance the economic development of the country.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: Yeah, let's. Mr. Sharon.
[00:14:36] Speaker D: No, what I would like to add is that, you know, Valmiki, is 100% correct. We cannot use Moody's and external reasons to really judge what is happening on the ground here. You know, the situation is becoming exceedingly dire, right? You know, the end of 2023 until 2024, the US situation got worse. We're seeing the same thing here at the end of 2024, going into 2025. I know for a fact that many small and medium businesses import heavy businesses or import necessary, you know, businesses that depend on bringing in goods for Christmas and so on, they were unable to get the US Dollars to bring in the containers that they need to bring in. They also have a situation of many small and medium businesses, retail in particular. I wouldn't even go so far as to say only small businesses, they have growing external debt with their suppliers because they had terms on the fact that they were buying things on terms and they had to, you know, they had the ability to pay all their invoices over a period of time. And the fact is, because they could not get the US Dollars from the commercial banks, they were unable to do so. And there's growing external debt, which is only a matter of time before, you know, we get blacklisted from many of the foreign suppliers, saying, looking at fellows in Trinidad and Tobago, they have no US Dollars, you know, we can't sell them anything again because they can't pay the bills. Furthermore, right, We've seen very recently the papers, we've seen two very successful businesses, you know, I mean, large retail businesses with many changes. What's seen excellent stock stores and we've seen home store closing branches and they're closing branches and citing low sales and a lack of the availability of forex as a reason why. So when you see, you know, larger, more successful chains, I would say, starting to close branches, particularly in salt, because salt has always been seen, as I said before, salt has always been seen as a place where people have more disposable income. And when you see, you know, branches that are closing south in the malls and so on, and the businesses citing, well, you know, we've had a decline in profitability, we need to control our costs because our costs are escalating, then, you know, it sends a. Sends a signal throughout, you know, the rest of the economy. Everybody's becoming quite worried about what is happening going into 2025. And then, you know, Valmiki spoke about the confidence out there.
And there's also the idea that, okay, now we have a diversification trust. This diversification trust is really because the manufacturing sector has been improving and has been doing well. The issue is this, right?
Can small and medium businesses, can businesses who are already in retail diversify into elements of manufacturing? Yes, they can, right? Yes, they can. There are pathways, there are avenues for them to do so. What is it going to require? It's going to require capital. Many of them are in debt as it is, right? Trying to run their business. They have mortgages, they have obligations, overdraft facilities, loans with the bank and so on. And everybody wants to keep a certain amount of liquidity in order to purchase Forex, should they get from the bank.
And because everybody's waiting for that call that not seem to be coming about, hey, you know what? We have some Forex. If you want it, you could get it. But the most expensive thing satish in Trinidad and Tobago has become land.
The most expensive thing has become land. And the problem is you can't set up your factory unless you have a piece of land to build your warehouse on, right? If you're looking to rent a warehouse in Trinidad and Tobago, looking at upwards of $30,000 a month, which is difficult for a startup, if you're looking to say, well, okay, the government can say, well, we have the ETEC parks, Etech parks are full. They have no room in Etech parks. There are, there is no room in the E Tech parks. There is some room in certain areas, but those areas are very close to crime hotspots and nobody wants to go there, you understand? So that's the situation that we are in.
Even if though they say, well, look, you know what, we have grants for that you can access for, you know, for diversification. And I can say the same thing about agriculture. I was looking at some YouTube videos the other day about agriculture in Ghana, which is in Africa, you know, and they're moving towards greenhouse agriculture, soilless agriculture and exporting and so on. And the idea is people who even want to get into agriculture here after they get their farmers badge and they want to secure tenancy on the land, they want to have secured tenancy because they have a lease on the land or they own the land. It's difficult statistics when you go and you ask in a wrong, well, are looking for acre to purchase or looking for acre or two agricultural land to lease, it's not there. You know how much people have been calling me and saying it's not there. So where is the diversification trust if you know, on a very granular scale when it comes to one of the most important factors of production, which is lambda, they don't have enough Oil there's, there doesn't seem to have a supply of land available for agricultural investment for let's say the normal quote unquote person to diversify into. Right. Legally and then what price you're paying for the agricultural land? A million and something dollars or something like that. But then how long are you going to take the break even on that if you decide to grow your tomatoes or your hot peppers or whatever. What is the situation about? Okay, I get it into some kind of, some element of manufacturing are looking to set up a small fact my small factory open a warehouse to put machinery in somewhere. And you're not looking for 20,000 or 30,000 square foot. You know, if you get 10,000 you're happy. If you get 5,000 you're happy. You'll just look, look in the papers, look around and see the prices of warehouses for sale out there. $2.8 million for warehouse. Right. And then if you purchase land for close to a million dollars, it will cost you close to $2 million to put up a decent sized warehouse there. You know, under, under, under the current rates of building materials and building and labor costs and so on. So it's not an easy scenario by any stretch of the imagination which is something that we've been saying. We actually in a very dire predicament when it comes to, you know, when it comes to doing business at a certain level in Trinidad and Tobago.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:14] Speaker D: And you know what was the most scary thing but it's most scary thing is that I have been hearing people saying things like because in times of scarcity, Satish. Right. In terms of scarcity people tend to turn on each other in times of scarcity. If you look at the conversation about US dollars over the period of time that we've been having this situation, you will see that the blame game started to surface. Well these people take the most us and them is the one to blame.
First it was SMEs. SMEs taking the US and all your. And all these importers buying things cheap and selling it expensive and they're the ones to blame. All these little retail stores in Chagonas and Arima and Tuna Puna, all them kind of places something, right. And then it went on to the cars, all the roll on, roll off people, all these big car distributors, Macy and Toyota and whoever and whoever all is to blame. And then the blame game just continues. The reality is that everybody has a right to do business in Trinidad. If you're selling roll on, roll off. If you're selling a Toyota Or Ford or Mazda or whatever. If you're selling your little shop and you have your little boutique with your shoes or your clothes or whatever it is, everybody has a right to do a legitimate business, to operate a legitimate business. In Trinidad and Tobago we didn't have problems like this back in the day.
US dollar credit card limits were as much as over $20,000. The problem is the supply of Forex. That is what the crucial thing is, the supply of Forex into the country, right? And then all of a sudden we have monies being diverted to the Forex window at the Ex IM bank and then the banks getting starved of Forex.
So they had all these situations that continue to grow. So the stewardship and the management of the economy has to be paramount.
I have to say. And I think it's important for me to see, and this is an observation and I believe it's an accurate and a true observation. SMEs and the retail sector is not important in the government's plan moving forward.
You know what I mean? I feel that, I almost feel that we are almost disposable in a sense. You know what I mean? Because there's the sense that, well, let them figure it out. We are, we are. You know, let's support manufacturing, let's support these other sectors. And let me forget about once the food distributors can import, any groceries could sell and we know that we have food security. Once the manufacturing sector continues to grow even at a slower pace. But you know, it looking good on the board, bringing in their own US dollars then, then whatever happened to them, other small businesses will dies on them.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: Well, let's look to. Yeah, let's, let's look to 2025 and some of the expectations. If we did not have a state of emergency. The very same question I would have asked. But with the state of emergency it brings different connotations to what the expectations can be now or should be for 2025. Let's get Dr. Arjun to tell us, are things going to get better? Because having the state of emergency is intended at addressing one of the most serious problems confronting the nation. And that is the issue of crime. Crime impacts on people's safety, the ability to do business and a host of other different things. What's your expectation for 2025? Is this going to be better than 2024?
[00:24:56] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I don't necessarily think it is going to be much better than 2024 from an economic standpoint. I mean really and truly what makes our TNT economy better than its previous performance is when there's a significant uptick in the energy production and we're not likely to see any meaningful increases in, in production up until 2027 or thereabouts. And that's from the humanity side of things.
One would hope that even though Donald Trump is not the best global player, and that's putting it very politely and mildly, and he has members that are very, of his government that are very close to him, who are also shown to be very anti Maduro and anti Venezuela.
You know, we, we, we, we, we still would hope that there's some, some, some that there's chance of us being able to, to, to, to acquire that Dragon Gas. And it's not just because of Dragon Gas being able to increase the, the production of natural gas. There's also liquids as well from, from that field that we.
[00:26:10] Speaker D: We.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: So it's not just, it's mainly natural gas. Yes, but there also are liquids as well from the field. So that's one aspect of it. Vivek spoke about the manufacturing sector now. Yes, indeed, the manufacturing sector. In fact, I used to always say this back since the latter part of the pandemic and coming out of the pandemic, they were really the economic sector wearing the big S on its chest, right? Because they, they performed remarkably because during the pandemic, given that they were able to tap in to various markets and increase their market share internationally. When, when there was a surge in international demand coming out of the, coming out of various lockdowns. Remember during lockdowns people can spend. So after, after they come out of the lockdowns, spending started to surge massively, especially in the developed economies like the United States and in Europe etc. Our manufacturing sector took advantage of that. They were able to ramp up production and tap into these markets and earn additional market share, thereby increasing their export revenues, their export capacity and their export revenues. It begs certain questions, however, how much of those export revenues actually made their way back into the TNT economy and how much of it did they choose to invest into the foreign markets, into foreign entities?
In the EXIM bank, there is a policy that if you get US Dollars from them to meet your obligations to your supplier, you have to show to the Ex IM bank that you're earning US Dollars and some of those US Dollars and those US Dollars are coming back into tnt, but there's no real way to check that all of it is coming back into tnt. So that's something that we have to consider. However, the manufacturing sector is likely. I know last year in 2024, there were some growth issues with the manufacturing sector because of course when a sector peaks after a while they start to drop. But that doesn't mean that they're not performing at a high level. They were still performing at a high level, much higher than the pre pandemic stages in 2018 and 19. This year they're expected to grow again and continue to expand into new markets into Latin America. So that's one thing to look forward to. However, I always remain optimistically cautious in that. The non energy manufacturing sector, they really account for only 7% of our economy, right? As I said earlier, energy is 30 to 40%. Non energy manufacturers are a mere 7%. So we need meaningful growth in that particular sector over several years for that sector to be able to even remotely catch up to a sector as high as the size or as large as the size of the energy sector. What we need are several sectors coming together and increasing their, enhancing their performance, like not just the non energy manufacturers, but those involved in agriculture. Agriculture is just a mere 1% of the economy, but yet still has much potential to become a net earner of foreign exchange. Much of what we utilize, as you know, on a daily basis, what we consume tend to be imported. And Vivek was right in the sense that there's a problem to acquire arable land for agriculture easily in tnt. But yet still a lot of countries, including China, who we have a remarkable relationship with, are showing the world that when you have certain, certain restrictions in doing agriculture in the traditional sense, you can start utilizing the smart technology which is available globally in order to enhance your output per acreages. Using smart technology to be able to determine, for example, what is the adequate amount of irrigation that is needed for your crops, what is the adequate amount of fertilizers, nutrients, etc. Available to be able to monitor your livestock when they're in terms of pregnancy, giving milk, et cetera, and a host of others, simple things as using drones to be able to spray pesticides, et cetera, on your crops. I mean these things are happening all over Europe, in China, and it's helping to optimize the production per acreage. And I think this is what we need to start introducing into tnt. We're still caught up in a very traditional way of doing agriculture when technology does exist and is becoming more and more popular internationally to be able to enhance our production levels. The Ministry of Agriculture needs to take it upon themselves to be a catalyst for this, to introduce this at least a certain, the certain major players within the agricultural sector and start also introducing the knowledge of how to use these items to interested parties in the agriculture sector as well.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I'll tell you just before I allow you to Mr. John, I just wanted to add, I've had the opportunity to look at a documentary that was compiled by Sir David Attenborough on this very same thing about agriculture and the varying ways that nations have found creative mechanisms to treat with agriculture and land space and maximizing productivity and utilizing new technology. And we are so far behind. You have persons in their own personal capacity trying to inject some of this, but it's not necessarily on the large scale that we need to. Mr. Charon, of course I want to get your comments as well. 20:25, what are the expectations?
[00:32:02] Speaker D: Satish? 20:25 People have a very, very important decision to make. I look at what's happening in the country now and I see people fixated on names, names and people and characters and so on. I see people fixated on Dr. Keith Rowley or Stuart Young or Minister Penelope Beckles on one side, I see on the other side, people fixated and still talking about, well, maybe we need a change and maybe the leader of the opposition, Kamala Prasad needs to go and stuff like that. And you know, for me, looking at it right, and looking at the danger that I'm seeing, right, and the storm that we desperately hope in that Category 4 hurricane we desperately hope will not hit business in Trinidad and Tobago, it is irrelevant to have these conversations.
What this comes down to is the policy of the PNM and the policy of the unc. And this is the simplest decision people that this election would be the simplest decision people could make. You know why? Because we have been fortunate in a Sense to have 10 years of one administration, 10 years of one administration. So that administration had a clean and clear run for 10 years. And all you have to ask yourself is this, Am I better off at the end of those 10 years or am I worse off? Am I richer or am I poorer? Am I safer or am I not safe in this country? And if it is that you are richer, if it is that you have grown and your business has done well and you feel safe and the concerns that everybody has against crime are not your concerns because you feel I am still in a safe place and I am happy with where we are and you are happy with the management of crime, then fine. Both accordingly. If, however, you are not, your business has not been doing well, you have done over the years. You have watched your business fall and fall and fall.
You have not been growing anymore. You watch a disposable income hit rock bottom. You are in fact, poorer. You are in fact more in debt with the bank than you have ever been in your life. You are now worrying about what is the future of my business. You are worried because you're hearing about, you know, you are, you are mere people away from the victim of a serious crime. You know, this person who's been home invaded, you're reading the papers about when they go into your house, the teeth know they're killing you. And all too, whether you're being kidnapped and dragged out your house, whether your business being extorted, whether you're worried about home invasions, whether you're worried about the gang killings and you're watching on social media men with machine guns, with impunity killing people in their Range Rover or in their cars and killing lawyers and prosecutors. If those things worry you, then you need to vote accordingly. And I'm going out on a limb here to say this.
When you look at so the PNM had a. They're in the midst of their own transition from Dr. Rowley and to Stuart Young. And, and that will air itself out. But the truth is the UNC and you know, the UNC has already aired itself out in terms of the, the leader of the opposition. There was a challenge to the leader of the opposition. They went to the people, which are the, the members, the people who have the UNC party cards, and they voted accordingly and they voted to keep the leader of the opposition in the present position. All this talk now about, well, is still she need to go on this and we don't have a chance and we don't have this. What you're doing is you are gambling, you are gambling with the future of the country when at this time, you know, you're supposed to sow the seeds of confidence. I don't believe in my analysis of the situation and looking even at the unc, and I'm not inside the UNC in any way, nor do I have a PNM UNC party card or a PNM particle. But I don't see anybody else in the UNC that has the ability or the experience to lead the country the next five years other than the president, leader the opposition. I really don't. And I'm being very honest with that. I really do not see anybody in there that could suddenly take the helms. And you know why that is? Because very few people have actually been commenting about the state of the economy. Satish Dinesh Rambolly, one of the few People that really has been commenting and you're reading articles in the papers about what he's been saying. Right. Vasant has been saying, Vasant Bharat has been saying things. Boothewari has always been saying things. But you know, Bo isn't directly in the party anymore or anything like that. We have Kevin Ramnerijn who has always been commenting about things in the economy. But really who has been batting which you know, who has been batting in the UNC for the economy and for business in the economy.
Right. And so when I hear MPs talking about like I read an article and you know, they quoted things that Anita Haynes had said and a couple other people and I'm thinking, you know, you have the wrong focus. If it is you want to lead people into a better future. If it is you want to show people that the uncle is the right choice to make any next election then stop focusing on yourself and you know, the leadership issues because that has already been aired. Focus instead upon the problems of the people.
[00:37:35] Speaker B: Right.
[00:37:35] Speaker D: Because we want representation. And that to me is the critique is the key thing here. We have a choice to make in 2025. I'm not going to tell people how to vote. I put it out there already. If you're doing good, vote accordingly. If you're very worried about the future and you want a change in policies. Right. Because a change in people do always mean a change in policy. PNM policies, PNM policies, UNC policies, UNC policies. Two different things altogether.
[00:38:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:02] Speaker D: If you want a change in policy and hopefully that will solve some of the problems we have in this country, then you need to vote accordingly.
[00:38:09] Speaker B: Okay. That's where we're going to have. That's where we're going to have.
[00:38:12] Speaker A: I just know. There's just one really quick comment here.
[00:38:14] Speaker B: Quickly, quickly.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: I think, I think it's important for people to start to really think who is going to be able to fix our national security, especially as it pertains to crime? Who is going to be able to fix our border security, especially as it pertains to illegal ammunition and immigrants coming in? Who is going to be able to fix our food security? Because our food import bill is just insane. And let's not forget that prices of items internationally, especially in the United States could very well increase with all these threats of increases in tariffs. Who is going to fix our economic security especially as it pertains to earning more foreign exchange, increasing the supply of forex and exports and of course growing the non energy sectors of the economy that's what we all have to start thinking about. Vivek is right.
All the talk about personalities and individuals really ought to put a pause on that. Stop that right now. These main four issues that I would have just indicated.
[00:39:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Gentlemen we have the basis for so many other discussions because we've said so much. You've both gone into such great detail on so many different things but there is so much more to discuss.
So we will of course have further discussions as things continue to unfold but this is all the time that we have. I want to thank both of you for being with us here this morning, being frank as you both always are and giving us exactly the issues that you think need to be discussed as a nation. Thank both of you once again for being with us here this morning.
[00:39:42] Speaker D: Thank you so much.
[00:39:44] Speaker A: Thank you for having having us. Take it the best insight, instant feedback, accountability the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
