SOE AND THE BUSINESS SECTOR.

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5. [00:00:08] Speaker B: We turn our attention now to our interview this morning. That's press coming down in the form. Let me tell you who I'm speaking with this morning again. I am chatting with Vivek Sharon, Chairman of the Confederation of Regional Business Chambers, the crbc. Good morning to you. [00:00:30] Speaker A: Vivek, Good morning. Thanks for having me on this morning. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Well, welcome. I was wondering if we were getting you at all. [00:00:38] Speaker A: So. Not at all. I was just here with. [00:00:40] Speaker B: I was trying to call you online. Not online, on your phone and it was unanswered. Anyway, good to have you. Welcome to Freedom 106.5 FM into the program. Let's talk a little bit. We five days into this SOE, what are your thoughts? I tried to get you last Friday when it was announced. What are your thoughts? What is the Chamber saying? How, how are they feeling about this current state of emergency as it affects businesses and of course the wider, the wider nation, wider populace? [00:01:05] Speaker A: Well, to be honest with you, you know, a lot of people are jaded at the moment and they're jaded because this is not the first SOE that has happened in a short period of time. And two, they have not really been happy. The business community, I think the people have not really been happy with how the crime situation has been really handled last 10 years. Now we have a new government in power and we find ourselves in the SUE again. Despite that, the Chamber, the Confederation has supported the SOE because on the face of it, it's not part of a national strategic plan on crime, but really to deal with a particular set of circumstances which had some insurrectionary overtones. So the AG came on board and he said at a press conference, he said, you know, existential threat, you know, involving rocket launcher, missile launcher, this sort of thing. And on that basis, you know, to protect people, to protect the nation as a whole, if they felt that the need was there to call an SOE and the powers that an SOE would then bring to the situation, given the fact that unlike other countries, we don't have a CIA and a FBI with the different sets of powers to deal with these things, then we don't see anything wrong with it, given the situation. But you know, I was making a point earlier on another interview that we've been finding ourselves in these situations where the government has been coming under threat continually over a shorter period of time. So in 2024 we had a situation where the then Prime Minister came, Mr. Prime Minister Rowley had come out and there was this situation that was happening with the ssh, the Strategic Services association, right, where they said it was a potential coup plot and so on. Fast forward, that was in March 2024 I think. Then fast forward to July 2024. The then minister of National Security, Tynes comes out and says that 70,000 rounds of ammunition are missing. Another serious threat. January 2025, Ola Christopher is questioned about signing off a sniper rifle that was given to the ssa, the same organization that was deemed a threat to national security. Now in July 2025, we have another threat coming in from a fringe group to national security as well too. And you know, at the heart of this, this, this crack, because you have to, you have to, you know, you have to connect the dots and what's her period of time, a long period of time, talking about 10 years. Now we have a new government, right? But the government has been unable to handle crime effectively or to push back on crime effectively. And so any government that has been unable to push back on crime surges and the growth of crime is going to be seen to be weak and ineffective by the criminal organizations. And when that happens, they themselves become a target of crime. And if we look, if we look at people in our region, right, hemisphere, let's look at certain parts of Mexico, let's look at certain parts of Colombia, we see that with the growth of the cartels, with the growth of organized crime in these areas, now it happens all over the world. But let's just look at our hemisphere. Famously in our hemisphere, it happened in those two countries. And when you look at the growth of organized crime and the inability of the government on over time to deal with that, then what happens is organized crime decides, you know, we coming after the government itself and we going to show that we are more powerful than the government itself. And is that a situation where it's beginning to rear its head in Trinidad, you know, over two separate incidents? And so, you know, we have a new government in power now and it is upon them, you know, now that they have assumed power mere matter of months, it is upon them to send a very strong message to the criminal underworld and to organized crime that they are not weak and that they're not going to be ineffective and that they need to push back as hard as they can in order to regain confidence. But not only that, there's often this, you know, we also say about an offensive defense. And that is what needs to happen at this point in time. We need an offensive defense against crime. [00:06:12] Speaker B: You Know, I want to ask you, you mentioned a series of things that led to states of emergencies in this country. Given the dated as far back as 2011, would the, would you say that the SOEs have yielded proper results? Have we reached a state where we seem to be calling an soe like taking a maxi to go? [00:06:37] Speaker A: Arima Well, I agree and I think part of the reason for that, like I, like I hinted at, is that when you look at a country like let's say America or the uk, right, or parts of Europe, you look at first world countries and they have many different levels of security agencies. England for example, has MI6, America has the FBI, the CIA. There are other organizations as well too. Within Europe, there's Interpol and so on, right? In Trinidad, we really just have the police force, we have the army. But one of the legal reasons that one cause an SSA is that it confers certain powers upon the police that they would not have normally. And among those powers is a search and seizure without a warrant and B arrest without or detention without arrest, in which case, in order to quickly stop an event from occurring, let's say a threat from occurring, one is able to go in there, search places, do the same thing with, hold people or detain people for questioning, in other words, to break up this concerted event that's going to happen until we reach a level of sophistication, I should say, or level where we have different security organizations that within themselves have legislative powers that allow them to do that at the right time, then an SOE will always be our go to scenario in case of an emergency. Now, one of the things that we have to bear in mind is that, and I completely agree with you about us being jaded about all these SOEs and things, but one thing we have to bear in mind is this, right? If for example, all schools have to deal with bomb threats, somebody call in, hey, they have a bomb in the school most of the time as a student, right? The school have to shut down, no school for the day, everybody happy. Same thing tends to happen sometimes in government ministries, sometimes it even happens in, you know, certain types of business and that sort of thing, right? Large businesses and so on. And the fact of the matter is that the statistics have shown that very rarely if ever there has been a bomb and most of the time everybody knows it's a prank. But because safety and security, the safety of the individuals and the security is tantamount. And because the level of the threat that is being threatened is so high. Meaning that can you take the risk that this one time it could be true and then the consequences thereafter would be horrendous. And the fact is nobody's willing to take those, take that risk that this one time it could be true. And so every time a bomb threat is called in somewhere, whether it's a school or ministerial office or business or wherever it is, the places will always be shut down. Right. Even though everybody tends to think, well yeah, it's a prank call, but this is what has to happen. And the same thing happens on a national security level. Can we then how whatever the intelligence is that we are getting, if you, on the balance of the analysis of people's lives at risk, the safety and security of the nation versus this intelligence we're getting, should we call an SOE or not? And so I think that tends to happen in particular cases. In other cases, I think what you're referring to is where a state of emergency was called as part of a national strategy against crime. And in those situations, a, it hasn't really netted the effects of what we look in, you know, it hasn't really netted the results that we wanted, which was a swoop and then we're able to grab all, convict all these people. And two, it hasn't really, it hasn't really reduced crime in a scenario. And if we, if we dig into it, the reason is the SOE confers upon the authorities search and seizure without a warrant. So they can go in there and then they say, you know what, we have credible intelligence that in this particular area people have firearms. And are we going to find caches of drugs or caches of money that are that huge caches of money that are unaccounted for, which may be the proceeds of crime. So they go in there and they do the searches. A lot of times they're going to come back empty handed. Why are they coming back empty handed? Is it because nothing was there? Possibly not if the intelligence was good. But also because, you know, the information gets back to the criminals, right? The information can get back and I'll come back, I'll come to that in a minute, the information can get back to the criminals and then the criminals have their own network. But by the time the police assemble the gates or the door of something, you know, these things pass hand to hand and they move out and they're hidden and it's not where it's supposed to be anyway. The second thing is that it allows people to be detained without arresting them. And so you detain gang, gang leaders, you detain gang members and then you decide to question them. Where. Where's the guns and where's this and where's these people? Are we looking for warrants for, you know, in the midst of all these interrogations, they may not get very far and they may not get the results that they want. But the fact is, as a tool, it was a good tool to use. The fact is that if it's not netting the results that it's supposed to, given the increasing powers that are given to the authorities, then where do we go to from there? And that's why we have to ask ourselves, you know, in terms of strategies, what is the next move? Because we also have a lot of corruption in Trinidad. Right. Let's look at the jails. So in the jails, for example, we have a situation where tremendous resources are put out by the police to apprehend criminals, charge them or arrest them. They're then indicted and put into the, you know, the court system. Resources in the court system are then lawyers appeared. You know, it winds through the court system over months, sometimes years, and then finally they are convicted by a jury of their peers and they're sentenced by the judge to jail. At that point in time, the threat is supposed to be removed from the streets. From the time that they're removed from the streets and detained, even during the court process, there's not supposed to be a threat coming from these individuals. Correct. The threat is removed from the streets. People are safer. Given the fact that this person is now behind bars. Nothing happening, right? Because in jail now, them fellas sitting comfortable and they call in shots on people, they call in shots on prison officers, they call in shots on people from rival gangs, and they call in shots on individuals on the outside there. So, you know, scarily enough, what is the freaking point of putting somebody behind bars? Because you have not removed the threat. So we have a serious problem there. Because when we are thinking that jail is the ultimate place for criminals to keep us safe, those of us who are not and those who are. Who are of us who are victims of crime, which is how they end up there in the first place or potential victims of crime, it ain't happening, you understand? And I think happening because a, the corruption within the prison service by bad actors. I'm not saying everybody in the prison service is. Is a bad actor. That would be a terrible thing to say and untrue as well, too. But obviously it is happening because of bad actors within there who are either a threatened. Right, or there's a certain amount of extortion happening there, whereby if you don't do this, we will find you on the outside and kill you and your family. Or b. Well boy, we pay you some money, you go take so and so and you go just organize we inside of here. And those are the things that are happening as well too, which, which account for the system that we are seeing is supposed to take criminals off the streets and keep us safe in working. Either. [00:15:33] Speaker B: You know, somebody is saying that you are talking more hard truth than anything else. The fact of the matter is this, persons are not aware that there are prison officers and I'm saying this, they are not aware that there are prison officers currently that are able to go into the prison, drive into the prison and exit without being searched. That is happening today. Fifteen years ago, if not longer, calls went out by the former president of the Prisons association to have that situation addressed. The current Gerald Gordon, the current president of the Prisons Officers association is saying that that call has still not been answered. The Commissioner prisons can walk in the prison of the streets without being searched. Senior prison officials have been confirmed. There are newspaper articles to this back in 2010 and now are still able to walk into the prison and walk out without being searched. They're not subjected to searches. So if these individuals, I don't know nobody, if you could tell me, don't care how big you are, that goes through any international airport that don't face security checkpoints, actors, big stars, diplomatic individuals, every pilots, everybody. I'm a captain for the last 15 years with this airline and they say, okay, Captain Kirk and you just walk through every one. And these flight attendants and aircraft crew, they all have to take off their shoes, their belt, they go through everything. Why are senior officers of the Prison Service authority allowed in and out of the place of work, a high security facility like that where trafficking seems to be the order of the day by rogue elements of the prisons. Why are they allowed to go in like that? There's an old saying, and I don't know the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Government come and go. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Correct. You're 100% correct. [00:17:56] Speaker B: They drop a SOE. Do we have mad politicians in this country, Mr. Vivek? [00:18:03] Speaker A: No, but you know, the thing is that the inability to address problems within an organization, an institution such as prisons over a period of time only weakens the institution. And that's kind of like what's happening because you know what? The criminals in Trinidad is sleeping in what we real like I actually have some Family members who are prison officers and they've been working in there, some in admin, some actually on the floor. And inside prison is war. You know, sometimes I go see them and they get, they have stitches above the eye and thing. And the idea that when people feel you're going into a cell to toss a cell to look for contraband, it easy is fight. Some of them, sometimes them has had a fight inside of there because when they're going inside there they meet an opposition and the fellas inside there badder than the prison officers. And so the prisons of Trinidad and Tobago, maybe like also any world I PR pressure is a high pressure place. It's not a place for the weak and it's not a place where you know it easy to maintain order and discipline. Nor is it a place that easy to say that the people who you have inside there happy to be inside there and happy to follow your rules, that they're happening especially when them know right when those guys in there know that I can make a phone call and all of a sudden somebody shoot you. And you know what? It is a fact that prison officers have been killed. Prison officers have been killed driving to and from prison. Prison officers up to today when they get a threat, they can't even go to their house. They're driving all over the place. They're going to different places to make sure the threat don't follow them home. Which is why prison officers have been asking for firearms. So apart from the bad actors in there, the factory matters that the worst people inside of the the prisons are still allowed to make, you know, to make threats. And extortion, you know, extortion has many different faces. On one level we know the business extortion is payment money or else harm will come to you or your business. On a different level they have extortion that says let me do what I had to do inside of here or else we going to bring harm upon you and your family. And a lot of that happens in the jails as well too. I have heard of instances and there's been reported in the papers of you know, things so sophisticated in the jail. There's not people who bring it in thing, you know, they sewing thing in dead pigeon and throwing it over the wall defense. They have drones that are dropping things in the prisons over the wall and so on in different prisons. And these things are verified. That's how that's the level or how intense things have had. And that is why Sel in 2012, when he made his crime report in There he was talking about the underground economy in the prisons, about how contraband drives power in the prisons who have, you know, a different way because if you have a carton of cigarettes in the prison, use a millionaire in inverted commas, if you understand what I mean. You have power, you have clout. They have fellas in there that have nobody bringing in anything for them and then they have fellows that have family members bringing in things and whatever and basic creature comforts that we take for granted inside there, you know, is a luxury and those things when you're in there for a long period of time is worth its weight and gold. And you know there's a lot of, so there are a lot of issues that need to be fixed that I don't understand why has, why it has not been fixed. So in the papers the other day we hear about the last 10 years or however long $5 billion TT dollars sunk into the prisons. Five billion, you know, and, and $5 billion sunk into the prisons. And yet at the end of the day the people who we put in there to be contained aren't, have not really been contained because them still calling shots on the outside and, and the thing that's something that needs to be, that needs to be shut down boy, that have to be shut down to curtail their influence. Otherwise they'd have no point putting them in jail. [00:22:16] Speaker B: You know when I speak to people like the former prison association president Rajkumar, the current association president Jared Gordon, these people are close allies and sometimes, and the thing about it is when they share information it is coming off of press releases, things they would have spoken to to the press and the media about things they would have highlighted. Even the closure of Carrera Prison, citing the inability to house high profile criminals, citing the inability of the Port of Spain jail, this 213 year old structure that very little restoration work can be done in a meaningful way to secure and properly prevent these things from coming and going in and out. What is also said to me is that even gang leaders, Vivek, gang leaders are getting special favors by administration within the prison service. Example, special family visits. You could imagine that now this is the same group of individuals charged with the earth with the responsibility to keep these individuals housed in a sheltered and a controlled environment. As you rightfully mentioned a few moments ago. Are we from the wider society away from the free world as they just put it. And Vivek, one of my texters are saying you are speaking some very hard truths. You are speaking to a level of truths that they have not. They haven't heard a guest speak about on the program in a minute and they wanted to commend you for it and say thank you. [00:23:55] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:23:56] Speaker B: My final question to you this morning we talked about the international scene and the various arms that other countries have outside of the regular police service. There's the FBI, the CIA, the AI, the CIS and all these different things. In Trinidad we have the S. We had the ssc. I don't know if that. I think that still exists. And then we had a ttps. We have the inter. There's another one we have as well called the. [00:24:24] Speaker A: Inter Task force or something like that. [00:24:26] Speaker B: Yeah, Inter Agency tax. [00:24:28] Speaker A: Agency tax for task. [00:24:30] Speaker B: Right, right. And. And then we have the national operation. All them task force and inter agency, they are still governed by the principles and policies that govern the ttps. They are not. They don't have no special powers like FBI. If FBI pulls in on a scenario, they supersede local police enforcement when it becomes a federal case. So you in the state of Arizona, Arizona PD or LAPD handling a matter in Los Angeles and it goes federal and the FBI reaches there. They have different powers, operational task force, divisional task force, this task force, iatf. All of them same powers, none superseding. Next. So my final question. Has the time come for legislation to be passed in this country? Vivek, where we need to solicit other agencies that when certain matters arise, rather than call us soe, they can now they have the powers to deal with issues once this threat level reaches this height and this has been established, this intelligence has been gathered that they can step in and supersede the ttps. [00:25:35] Speaker A: I agree. I think the time has come for that. But while we saying that we also have to be careful about. Because look, the SSA was infiltrated. I mean without a doubt the SSA was infiltrated by what the then Prime Minister described as a cult that had plans for coup. A coup like incident civic. [00:25:58] Speaker B: What about polygraphing? Should we polygraph all them officers? Should that become law now? [00:26:03] Speaker A: Well boy, the thing about polygraph is that while if I if polygraphs was a hundred percent effective, they may be using it in courts, but they're not using it in courts which means that there is some leeway where it can't be. But I mean, you know you raise an important point there which is also corruption within the police force and we have to make this point. So like Minister Alexander, Roger Alexander, he spoke about bringing in 800 SRPs because there's over 1,000 vacancies in the police Service that should be filled. And this could help this 800 SRPs. But they also waived the minimum requirement to bring in these 800 SRPs. And in a sense I do agree with that because you know, it was back in the day, it was people go and take up police work when they can't get no other work. And I don't believe that. I believe the police work isn't the kind of work you should get or take when you can't get nothing else. The police, to become a police officer, they require a higher standard. And one is even a higher standard of that standard, say morality. Because your morality is constantly tested, maybe on a, on a day to day basis just like a prison officer, because of all the temptations and all the bribes and all the whatever that might come your way to look the other way or get this one a blind or to collect this, you know what I mean? Or to be part of a criminal element and be paid for it. So we kind of have to reach that stage where we require police officers, men and women, to be not, you know, not to have the lowest level of requirement to get in, but A, to be able to be intelligent enough, B, to be able to be smart enough, but to be, you know, of a certain moral character as well and also to have the ability to communicate. Because let me tell you which one of us has not had a bad interaction or a bad disconnect with a police officer over nothing. You and I are not criminals, right? We ain't do nothing wrong. But you bounce up a police at a traffic stop or something like that, or you just wave you at the side of the road and you had the worst interaction ever, for what reason, I don't know. But sometimes power goes to people's head. And you know, one of the things you know, was one of the greatest tests as an individual anybody could have, it is when you are suddenly conveyed, when power and authority beyond which you have never experienced has suddenly been conveyed upon you. That is your ultimate test. Because some people, some people can pass the test because it doesn't change them, right? They can wield that power, that authority they never had and they can wield it to the best. And then there are other people when that power and authority is conveyed upon them, they turn into the worst possible individual ever and they use it to subjugate people all around them, right? And that is something that tends to happen within not only police force but in any sort of institution in which sometimes people are sent to that level of power. And ultimately it is a test of an individual and their core values. But many people often fail at this. And so, you know, when, when the minister says, bringing in all these people and that sort of thing, I understand the need, I understand why you're doing it, but you still have to have checks and balances on these people before you put them out in the world to deal with the rest of us outside there. You understand? [00:29:48] Speaker B: You know, I want to thank you very much, Vivek. We have to leave it here. [00:29:52] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.