Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5 gentlemen, we've spoken to him on numerous occasions. It's nice to have him back with us here this morning. Let's welcome back to our program, Pastor Clive Dutton. Pastor Dutton, good morning to you and welcome back to our program.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Good morning. I'm delighted to be here.
[00:00:22] Speaker A: It's, it's not under the best of circumstances.
Normally a conversation the first day of the year back out to work would have been a joyous one, one looking forward to all that is to come for the year and so on. But there's a somber mood and more so for the Seventh Day Adventist Church and for the nation as a whole. There was this very unfortunate incident where a member of the clergy of the the Seventh Day Adventist was. Adventist Church was killed on the last day of the year. Let's, let's begin by getting your sentiments the, the church's approach and, and all those, those issues related to what, what, what transpired on, on O day.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Well, we are totally traumatized.
You could imagine a church, a packed church now every Olia evening now, the same event. This church, all right, believes in the issue of the day beginning at sunset. The sunset so that we have our earlier service at the setting of the sun.
So Stanmore Avenue, which is my home church, I should tell you, I grew up there.
Stanmore Avenue, they had their service. I, I was in a place called Vega de Oro Pooch just after Grande on the old Toko Road. That's why I celebrated. So people testify and are coming to the heart of the matter because he was in charge of the testimony service. So after the pastor delivered the message, the sermon, he now, all right, took part, controlled the testimony so that you know, Satish members will get up and say we thank God for this, we thank God for that. We thank God to be alive and, and significantly we might dare say paradoxically thank God for life and for you know, being good to us. He was very appreciative. Although I must tell you Randall was under significant pressure for 2024 because he took on a serious role in a case of being the special prosecutor.
And I have said, and I said in another place yesterday when being interviewed, Randall protected the state but the state did not protect him.
That is what I said. And to honest people, even those, I mean you could imagine the wife and the children, there were a young, I have to say a young baby. You could imagine the, the, the trauma that that wife is going through. You could imagine the build up to the funeral.
I mean, it, it. It. It's just amazing the. The kind of challenges young wife has to go through. The pain of the church, the shock. When I heard it, I was coming down from Sangrandi, I should tell you, and when Officer Steve Bing called me, you know, he was the immediate past Director of National Security at the University of the Southern Caribbean.
I found it was incredible news. So I had to ask him, I said, so what happened? He got shot, but did he survive me? He says no. He passed under surgery at Porter Speed General Hospital.
So let me tell you something. It was a. I understand a horrific scene of the church because it was after he had concluded the service, you know, asking the people to thank God and to have a great 2025. And he mentioned the issue of crime, that it was a bloody year. All right, he did mention that. And soon after that, his blood was on the street.
So that I want to say my. My interpretation of the life. You know, there's a story in the. In the Bible, in the book of Acts, about Stephen being stoned to death, that he was a sacrifice like as of Jesus Christ. I see Randall Hector sacrificing his life because he knew, all right, now, he worked for the ssa, the very contentious and controversial ssa. What a stood now to be when the government, you know, I mean, I have to say, launch an assault on the SSA and said that they were trying to overthrow the government. If you recall that. Well, Satish, that is what was claimed that the SSC and its leadership and the church and whatever was trying to overthrow. Now, he had served as head of the legal department there. He was the key legal advisor at one time.
Okay. And now we took on the role of a special prosecutor in the case against an alleged young leader. A high profile alleged young leader.
All right, so that this, this was a. He dedicated his life and I believe he understood the risk that were involved, but he still did it. Perhaps he was another. Perhaps. I have spoken in his presence and out of his presence. Last year in Dominica, he made us an extraordinary presentation on the lgbtiq.
The rule out, the marketing strategies, the targeting of young people by this community.
He dealt with that last year, June in Dominica, when we had our 2024 Liberty Congress. So there's a guy, well known, he's a member, a very committed member of the Caribbean Religious Liberty association, which is the regional institution that, you know, helps us to supervise justice and freedom issues in the region, issues like crime and NCDS and all of that. So he was a Very outstanding member of that group. Committed, sacrificial, dedicated to the task. So the church feels it deeply.
And by the way, in 2022 in Moruga, we lost two of our members via the AR15 route. A known assassin that I have called a protected assassin in Moruga. Aruna de Osarana, Nigel Chance.
We lost them. Well, you know, assassination.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: Pastor Latinas, we've had a number of conversations over the years and last year in particular we spoke a lot about crime for the obvious reason. What you're saying to me here now is so concerning because if you know who this assassin is, how come the authorities don't. Don't know how come this person has not been brought to justice? And it ties back into a. But a point that I've been making when it comes to this state of emergency. And, and, and my, my not having the confidence that we're going to treat with the gangs in the way we're being told. What, what, what's your opinion on the state of emergency and the promise from the government that they go and take down the gangs?
[00:07:55] Speaker B: Tish, you know, on Friday on the morning group part of your.
I called for a state of emergency and I called very fearlessly for the removal of the carnival at this time.
I called for that because I expected.
It is my opinion and I see people disagreeing me on disagreeing with me online. But I am not here on any popularity contest when you don't have a proper curfew to back up a state of emergency. Because I always thought, pardon my legal ignorance, I always thought that it was automatic only to be told you have to choose. It's optional. Well, to my mind, the results, all right, in the new year of this criminal empire, you know, pushing to take over this country. That is how I see what the criminal empire is doing.
And I'll come to a particular gang leader if I know who killed.
All right, Nigel and Aruna in 2022 and it is rumored he was involved in the killing of the five year old and the father in Pui Trees scrap iron dealers went down there and I went down there with trap iron dealers.
The police must know.
And I said on morning brew. All right. That I expected. When I talked about the support for the sou, I mentioned that it was time because the country was getting ungovernable. I mentioned that and I mentioned a number of other things that we should look seriously during this state of emergency at first division officers who encourage second division officers, all right. In breaking the law in illicit activities. I mentioned the history of the carnival because I expected it. A very systematic approach to crime fighting, including a curfew. To my mind, when you do have a curfew, you're weakened. The state of emergency as an instrument to help you get a grip on the crime thing.
You know, the night after the state of emergency, you had a set of lawlessness on the streets of Marima. You had open gang warfare on the streets, which tells you the criminal empire is determined, all right? To operate. Like if the state of emergency does not exist and you'll find at least two murders for the year already, okay? One doesn't know what this will this day will bring. But there are certain hard decisions that you have to take. You have to take hard decisions on the issue of corruption in our protective services. Not just the police, but the army, all right? We have gotten reports and. And that requires significant impact when you have army men involving protecting guys who involve in wickedness and evil. All right? Your country is far gone. And I listened to the archbishop Gordon this morning and I was disappointed in him. He talked about talking the country and everything else on our talk show. Host Dale had to try to remind him that this is the reality of the country. People are nervous, People are scared, People are stunned. They feel the government is not listening to their cries. People feel a sense of being unsafe.
They. They feel upset. And you cannot be angry. You have a record. I don't know if the archbishop must be living in Trinidad. I don't know if he understands that is the greatest number of murders we ever had in the history of the country. I mean, come on. I mean, and. And then some of us who keep talking out on this thing, we have a right as our fundamental right to talk out when we see something not being done. And the crisis gets deepening. The crisis is deepening in this society and there's no quick fix, all right? There is absolutely no quick fix. And I am saying if you have a state of emergency which is a constitutional tool, use it. Use it not just for blue collar criminals, Use it for white collar criminals. Use it for those who are breaking the law, although they are paid by the state, Use it to help our youth. I told them we must get to the schools and break the bank. Lack of the recruitment racket that is taking place in the schools that pushes gang violence in the schools. That is where we have to go as a nation. We have to take some very hard decisions and leaders must have the courage. So when the prime minister did not appear at the press conference, I was stunned. And you know, Social media is a dangerous thing, you know, because he didn't come and said he was mourning his brother. But there are pictures of a function going on this Sunday night, a social function, if you please. So that, that, that, that, that makes it horrible. And I am saying the leaders must get serious. The criminals are serious, the gangs are serious. I mentioned in Morning Blue last, last Friday that I have heard about a gang leader who has the ambition to bring all the gangs under his control. And I made a very serious statement if that happens, he would have more power than Abubakar had in 1990. I made some very, very shocking statements there. And I make it again on your program. Satish, I hope you're not offended by it.
[00:13:37] Speaker A: No, I'm not. But it ties back into a question that I've been asking. How is it that all of this information can be out there widely available and nobody's contradicting it or saying that it's false and the authority's not dealing with it? And that is why when I said this morning that I have very little confidence that this state of emergency is going to bring the results against criminal gangs because they have all the evidence already and they ain't doing anything with it. What is different this time around? And it's a debate that we're having, but I just can't understand it at all. And that's probably one of the questions that should have been asked to the acting Attorney General and the Minister of National Security at the press conference last Monday. If all they have all the information and all this thing already, why you need a state of emergency to deal with these things. You have everything at your disposal to treat with it already, but. And you haven't. All that has happened now is that the police don't need a warrant to break down your door. But I'm not convinced that we're going to get the kind of crackdown on the criminal element that we so solely need. The kind of crackdown that you are talking about, the information that you're talking about, I mean, when Stuart Young spoke at the press conference, he told us about how many gangs, where they're from, what they're doing, what kind of gun they have and what they plan to do and the kind of detail he gave to the nation. One would expect that with that kind of information in your hand, these people would have been locked up already. It's three days into the state and we've not seen the kind of crackdown on the criminal gangs that we were told we're going to get and the more time that passes, the more time them fellows have to either clean up the act or put things in place to evade capture and evade being brought to justice at all under this state of emergency. So it ties back into the question, how successful is this thing really going to be? Or is this just politics at play?
[00:15:31] Speaker B: Well, this is our election year. Don't forget that we're in 2025. So Satish, this is an election year and we have to read the reality of that. And we have to ask the government not to politicize the state of emergency. Because you mentioned something that could be very worrisome to some of us. That is the issue of operating without a warrant. So you have, I mean you have real power. The protective services have real power. You could be searched, you could be detained. That, that, that is a, that is amount of power. And I said on your probe on Morning Brew, I said that I am hoping that the issue of guys who have question marks over their head, the rogue element will not be utilized in terms of going into citizens homes. Now Satish, we have another problem we have to talk about and that is gang members have accessed uniforms, all right. And have entered homes, all right?
Playing, acting out the role of police when in fact they were criminals. Now that is another situation we have to look at carefully. And people have been assaulted and bludgeoned in their own homes, all right? That people claiming to be police when in fact they were not police, but they had access to uniforms. Now that is another dimension that we have to mention as a cause for deep concerning the country.
So that I, I am saying to us that the government must know that the state of emergency is a last resort.
If that fails, your government collapses. So they must, they must shock the country. I mean you have raised vital and significant issues, but they powers that be must shock the country and realize where the country is at. This is the last straw. And if nothing positive comes out of it, the country stands to be in a position of anarchy. Because when institutions fail, Cly Phelps tells me this over and over. When institutions fail, are talking about state institutions now. An Archie revolution is the result. And I am, I am pained. As somebody who has been in the my profession for 44 years, I am painless. I see where the country is going. It hurts my heart no end. And although Randall Lecter was a member of my church, I am saying that I grieve not just for him, but I grieve for the other 625. Or some people say it's really 650. I mean grieving families who have lost loved ones.
This is a vital and a deep moment in our history.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Pastor, this is where we're gonna have to leave our interview here this morning. It's the best insight, instant feedback, accountability.
[00:18:46] Speaker B: The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
