Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Good morning. Good morning. Are you hearing me?
[00:00:10] Speaker C: Yes, we're hearing you. Makci, is it?
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:00:13] Speaker C: Makisi Makayce. That's an unusual name. I kind of like that name. You know, that's a very, very unusual name. I've never heard that one before.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: Well, that name has. I've been in the public space for quite some time since I was Guild president.
[00:00:26] Speaker C: I know, but that's the only place I've heard it.
Outside of that, nobody. You have a very unique name. Nobody else in having that. So since you've been Guild the president, let's talk a little bit. Welcome to Freedom 106.5 FM on the morning rumble. Let's get to it. At the moment, you know, so much a talk is happening in our news where that this incumbent income in this government of the day saying that the university out there, you know, it was in a state of disrepair and all these things. You had the president coming and saying, denying that the campus was in ruins. You know, what is the current state of the campus at this time?
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Well, I mean I could speak from the perspective of when I was Guild President, when the PNM government would have assumed office back in 2015 and the campus at that point in time was identified as earmark sorry for the lower campus. And the students back then would have protested, especially our regional students, because it would have been difficult for them to traverse that highway all the way down to south and disrupt their livelihoods. Some students were living on campus, some students were living around campus and would have had lease arrangements back then when I was president, the campus administration would have led a tour, a tour to the campus. And the campus at that point in time was fairly new.
The moot court, which would have been the main area for students in the law faculty to participate. That was somewhat, I would say at that point in time was 80% complete. There was still works to be finished. And after the meeting, the office as president, I know the campus administration and the Guild of students at that point in time would have worked, worked with the university campus, with the student amenities, fees, with all these investments that would have been received to see how they could have complete the campus. I mean, I was in total disbelief when, you know, the media indicated, well, the current government indicated that the campus was in total disarray.
Knowing what it was back in 2015 and knowing the investment that the current government made and the UWI and I felt that to be so Untrue to say what it looks like currently. I mean, I have not visited the campus. Right.
In recent times. But again, I could attest that back in 2015 and the years thereafter, there was a progressive step by the uwi. There was involvement by the government to ensure that the campus delivery was broad and encompasses everyone who wants to get involved.
[00:03:12] Speaker C: Now you said it was designated at that point in time for the law students, right?
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Yes, correct.
[00:03:19] Speaker C: But under the Guild, when you were president, was it other outside of law students? Was that the sole purpose of building the campus out there in Debian? Now, I understand the concerns of students having lease arrangements out at campus out there in St. Augustine, which is closer. Right. So that. That traveling back and forward would have been a headache, I would imagine. But outside of that, was it just solely for law students or were there ever any talks as far as the Guild is concerned, when you were president of initiating other programs out of the Day Bay campus?
Certainly.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: I mean, being a student from San Fernando, I knew firsthand what it was like to go up that highway and come back down until eventually I had to rent. And at the point in time when the discussion around the Daybe campus was being held, there was this call for a mixed use of programs and a dissemination of some programs, especially within the Faculty of Social Sciences. The Faculty of Social Sciences had the most amount of students and most of them were coming from the southern area. And we felt that there could have been a mixed use. However, I think at that point in time, the previous government of the day was focusing on law in particular.
And even though the UWI specialty from a law perspective really happened at the Kvill campus, there was this idea or this call to understand why are we centralizing the law faculty solely within San Fernando? Well, within the Debe region. I mean, it could have been anywhere. It could have been point 14, it could have been gaspred. It could have been anywhere in the country.
I think the problem mainly was that there was a call for consultation. At that point in time, there was no consultation and students would have protested. If you look back at media articles, back in 2017, when the campus wanted to take another move to take students down to the DB campus, there was also another set of protests. So historically there was this lack of consultation, lack of, of involvement for students to want to participate in that arrangement. I mean, many years after now, I like the idea that perhaps there's a revised call for a mixed use facility. And I hope something like that is considered because really and truly, it is difficult for students from the Southern region to go to St. Augustine and in most instances it's difficult to even have to pay that rent to stay up in the St. Augustine area. So I think it's a good move, but we need to relook at how we roll it out.
[00:06:10] Speaker C: But then would it not be prudent to have students that live maybe central and south to attend? And I'm saying central not necessarily meaning Chagorness and Monroe Road, Carony and that area. I'm talking places like Freeport or beyond Freeport, Coover, you know, Golconda, Marabella, all those places beyond Freeport to use the Debe campus as opposed to students. Because would it have not been easier to have students attend classes? They have lecturers and facilitators there as well as persons on the, on the eastern side on the western side of the island attend classes and get the same results out of the campuses out there in St. Augustine? Or was it something that they wanted to solely move the law from wherever it was in St. Augustine and bring it to San Fernando down to Day Bay and use it solely for that purpose only? Would that detox be happening then at.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: That point in time? Yes, that was the nature of the context.
[00:07:18] Speaker C: But then that would have been bad because if you have students living in San Fernando that having problems with traveling and traversing to the northern side of the island to go up to St. Augustine, what about students on the east west corridor that want to do the same thing? They would find themselves in a quagmire having to travel to the southern side. So did the Guild at that point in time see it prudent to have discussions? Well, listen, if the DBA campus is open up to having students come and study law on this side, we can maintain a presence here as well so that students will not have to facilitate renting as you now mentioned, because you were forced to. You don't have a choice. And there's, there's rooms in that area specifically designed to make our money on students like yourself. Them don't have time that nobody else, you know, them just want to rent the students because they know you need it? Yes. So were there talks when you were president to have it to have the. In different, the two different locations?
[00:08:10] Speaker B: Well, there was a talks for decentralization in a, in a phased approach. And at that point in time the university would have implemented the student Amenities Fund.
That fund saw students paying about 500 TT dollars and at that point in time we had about approximately 18,000 students.
That money would have been utilized to purchase shuttles and at that point in time, the conversation was surrounded about utilizing some of these said shuttles to move some of our students, especially our regional students and international students, between the two campuses for the phase rollout approach beyond 2017. When the students protested at the campus council meeting, then principal Professor Copeland would have indicated his willingness to work with the student and cooperate and see where we could find meaningful discussion for smooth.
However, as I said, Between 2017 to the present date, that consultation remained ongoing and improvements remain ongoing. We have to also bear in mind that COVID 19 would have happened and that too would have also added to a slowdown arrangement, especially for in person classes and the demand for on campus arrangements.
So it's not new that this conversation is revisiting the table. I think it's the best time to revisit it because we are going into a period where finances are quite difficult in our country. And I believe for the average student who is coming from San Fernando and coming from Deep south, it provides a perfect arrangement for them to get coordinated in a way that does not affect their pocket personally.
[00:10:09] Speaker C: And that is something that is really, really nice. But were there, I mean are you aware that outside of COVID we're talking post Covid now, were there any activities in terms of students being able to attend Daybia campus for the same law? Did it ever get kicked off the ground?
[00:10:26] Speaker B: No, not to my knowledge. I believe Roy Tech had some sort of arrangement there to this present date. But based on my knowledge, as I said, I'm no longer president so I cannot 100% confirm. But based on my connections and the information that I followed up to date, I know there hasn't really been any classes per se on the UE DB campus as far as I am aware of.
[00:10:56] Speaker C: And based on the current administration and the talks that you're hearing through gifts members and what have you, are they looking favorable expanding the Debia campus? Because you know there's a pull on, there's a tug of war where the prime minister is now saying if they don't get it right, we'll take it back.
Yeah, and we will take back under our control as well, you know, given Warner Census as though there is not much activities happening on the DB campus. Are you aware of what can you share with our listening audience what is happening as far as you know so far on the Debia campus day to day activities?
[00:11:34] Speaker B: Well, I think at this point in time the student, my, my little connection with the Gill and other persons within the university system, it did create a little buzz.
I Mean the last time there was this buzz around the UEEDB campus was back in 2017 and here we are back in 2025 and there's this renewed call for the Day Bay campus. I mean it's unfortunate that, you know, the current administration would have had to lay such a statement to the uwi. But in credit to the uwi, they have been in fact maintaining that facility and finding strategic ways to see a successful rollout for the student population that will benefit the students. I know for a fact, and this new guild that came in quite eager to see this implemented for the benefit of students living in Trinidad.
So I think for now they are quite supportive. I think persons are a bit open minded. I think there is a call for clarity, there's a call for unity in the approach for the rollout of this DBA campus. As I said, it has been discussion and on the books for quite some time. At the end of the day, taxpayers monies would have been put forward to see the execution of this facility. I think it's Tony, right that we finally put this, this, this to rest in light of our current situation and the financial situation the country find itself in.
[00:13:09] Speaker C: You know, when it comes to this campus.
I don't know if I missed it. Is it currently operational?
[00:13:17] Speaker B: No, it is not currently operational.
[00:13:19] Speaker C: Right. So that's what I wanted to get clear on this issue.
So the past administration, you were former president, talks were happening on the ground under the PNM administration for this Mona campus nine and a half years later.
Between that nine year period. Let's go pre Covid.
All right. Because Covid happened somewhere in their second stint in office, which was in 2020, right?
[00:13:54] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:13:55] Speaker C: So between 2015-20 to the beginning of 2020 or the end of 2020, 2019, what sort of conversations was happening? What was the timelines in in place of getting Mona. Not Mona daybe Campus up and running. It cost taxpayers millions of dollars to build under the people's partnership, it was completed and left there stagnant. So when you were president of the Guild and you all started conversations, what timelines were in place to get Mona. Not Mona, sorry Daybe Campus functioning where students can attend daybe Campus, whether it be for law, medicine or otherwise.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: Well, I believe the conversation prior from between 2017 to 2015. Sorry, to 2017, while the conversation among senior administration was centered around how do we effectively rule out the curriculum or the course structure for the daybe campus. The challenge at that point in time and the discussion was surrounding the funding and the finances available.
Because remember, when you're running a campus, it's not just the building. You have staff to pay, you have security personnel, you have maintenance issues, you have. It's a running of a facility.
And the question back then was how are we going to find the additional funding required to host the administration and to ensure that the student population at that point in time could have functioned in a facility with all the necessary amenities?
So that was the focus conversation between 2015, when I was, when I had just assumed president, up until I would have left back in 2017.
That period was a heavy period of discussing how are we going to financially roll out the launch of this new campus.
Unfortunately, that discussion, I left that discussion with conversations surrounding how that money is going to be obtained. Because also, I don't know if you could recall, the Coover Children's Hospital at that point of time also went under the uwi, right?
It became the Coover Teaching Hospital.
And the UWI was also asked to come and be a part of that arrangement. I can remember as Guild president when we visited the CUV hospital and so when it was open, we were invited back then by the previous government in 2015 for the opening of the debate campus. I was Guild president, not Davis. Sorry for the Coover Hospital.
And fast forward after the children Hospital idea collapsed and then UE was then, in addition to the daybe campus, they were asked to take on the responsibility for the Coover teaching facility.
And all of that was done in an arrangement to attract outside investments for the running of the Teaching Hospital via education, tourism, if you want to put it like that, encourage persons to come to Trinidad and see our facilities and learn within a teaching facility governed by the uwi. All of these things took money and I don't think the planning itself fully harmonized the way that the previous government would have wanted. Mainly because of international global shocks. We went into Covid thereafter 2019 and of course these discussions would have collapsed. But I think it was all good intention of the previous government looking at the financial arrangements that the country was going through at that point in time to work with the UWI for a smooth rollout and a smooth transition and decentralization away from the St. Augustine Main Campus because the St. Augustine Main Campus houses everything. Outside of that you have Mount Hope, but that is it. So the Coover Hospital and the Day Bay arrangement would have added great clarity for a sense of decentralization and opportunity for our students here in Trinidad and Tobago. But these things have been just talks. I haven't really seen a Full rollout up until and discussions up until now.
[00:18:24] Speaker C: What are your hopes and what do you think this government should. Well before I go to your hopes, but what do you think that is crucial on the table right now that this government needs should address first and foremost when it comes to this daybear campus and of course the children Hospital as you mentioned, what do you think is primary, it's necessary, it's urgent now that we address these in moving forward.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: I think the end user, which at the end of the day are the students, international students, they are the persons who are going to benefit from these facilities and therefore consultation is required to ensure that we are spending taxpayers money in a prudent way.
Now that our country is going through the financial troubles that we're seeing, I think it's even more prudent that we before we spend our money and our resources that we measure what is the roi, what is the return on our investment.
And my hope is that this current government would let good sense prevail, would allow the UWI who, who clearly for quite some time have been assessing and looking at their cost outputs and what would benefit the student population, what is in demand, what our student population could now study and go there and get a decent job.
They did some studies and if you look at all reports the UWI was planning to roll out a mixed arrangement and well this current government is saying to them no, you will do what we tell you to do. I think that is counterproductive. I think as an institution of so many years and as of the government of Trinidad and Tobago, it calls for that collaborative approach. I want good sense to prevail and I want this current government to be very prudent with the expenditure of taxpayers money, taking into consideration the end user and the current state of our country's finances.
[00:20:30] Speaker C: Makasey, I want to thank you very much for joining me this morning and sharing your insights and thoughts into the matter out there at University of the West Indies. All right, thank you very much and do have yourself a very safe and productive day. We will chat again in the not too distant future.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
