WORLD DAY AGAINST TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.0. [00:00:08] Speaker B: Time to talk counter trafficking and what it means. What does the CTU do? We have with us this morning the deputy, the director rather of the counter trafficking unit. Mr. Alan. Am I getting it correct? Miguel. Mr. Alan. Miguel. We have it correct. And Diane Marie Marshall, the Deputy Director. Good morning to you guys. [00:00:30] Speaker A: Good morning, thanks for having us. [00:00:31] Speaker C: Good morning. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Let me hear. [00:00:34] Speaker A: Good morning. [00:00:37] Speaker C: And just as last slight direction, it's Dane Marie Marshall. [00:00:40] Speaker B: All right, so good morning. Let me hear you. [00:00:42] Speaker A: Yeah, good morning. Thanks for having me. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Just want to make sure which mic you're on. Well, glad to have you guys. Let's. Let's first start off with you, Director, as to what does the CTU does. [00:00:54] Speaker A: Briefly, let me just give you a quick concise history of the Counter Trafficking Unit and where it was born from. You remember that prior to. [00:01:02] Speaker B: Pause. Just want to get that over again. You're going to give me a brief history as to CTU. Go ahead. [00:01:10] Speaker A: Yes, prior to 2001 it was found, the United nations found that trafficking in persons was one of the most lucrative criminal activities, transnational criminal activities facing the globe. And to deal with that wicked problem they established the convention, the Parliament Convention in which it was for the transnational organized crime and the protocols establishing the counter trafficking efforts to protect women and girls from that type of activities. Trinidad and Tobago ratified that convention and we did so through the TIPS act, the Trafficking in Persons act, which established the national framework. It established the Counter Trafficking Unit. The Counter Trafficking Unit is a civilian led organization, multi agency. That is, yes, we have a number of agencies that work together. And our mandate is to ensure that the country's response to this heinous crime, trafficking in persons, is as strong as possible. Of course, utilizing the assistance of the various agencies of the United nations to ensure we have uniformity in the way that we conduct our counter trafficking efforts. [00:02:24] Speaker B: Am I getting it correctly that this is civilian led? [00:02:30] Speaker A: Yes, it is. We have a director and a deputy director who lead the charge. Ready? And we are assisted by multi agency personnel who we call authorized officers and. And together we represent the country's response to trafficking in persons. [00:02:47] Speaker B: So a question to you, Ms. Marshall, this morning. When the. When do you all actually get engaged in trafficking reports? At what point do you all get involved? [00:03:03] Speaker C: So good morning Trinidad Tobago. Good morning to you, Davy. The Counter Trafficking Unit or involvement in trafficking in persons is either reactive or proactive. We have developed a significant referral base because you must understand that we would be a referral mechanism because the police officer on the ground, the immigration officer on the border, they are the persons that might first meet with somebody that they suspect to be a possible victim of trafficking in persons. So our engagement is both reactive in that sense and of course, proactive. When we go down the road of public awareness and meeting, greeting persons and then in those environments, you find persons come to tell us that they've experienced something or they have seen something, you know. So our engagement is both reactive and proactive. [00:03:56] Speaker B: Let me ask another question here. What is the difference between the Counter Trafficking Unit and the anti kidnapping squad. [00:04:04] Speaker A: The Trinidad and Tobago Police? They have primacy over crime. Now, trafficking in persons is a crime. Kidnapping is a crime. Kidnapping falls under the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service. However, trafficking in persons, the Counter Trafficking Unit is a sort of special unit. Yes, we are assessed by the United States Department of State. We are graded on a tiered system, all to ensure that, that our efforts, we keep focused on it. We have an entire unit focusing on this. And in terms of the question you asked before, we are reception, we are receiving unit for all complaints involving trafficking in persons. Then we go on to investigate, then we go on to prosecute, then we go to the DPP and ask the dpp, look, do we have enough here to ensure a successful prosecution? Then we have a cohort of victims that the law tells us we have to feed, we have to clothe, we have to give medical psychosocial support and so on. So this unit really and truly is so multifaceted that it is given a sort of primacy when we're dealing with that specific crime of trafficking in persons. [00:05:14] Speaker B: Deputy, this one is for you this morning. What does human trafficking look like? How can the average citizen identify the suspected human traffic trafficking situation occurring before them? [00:05:29] Speaker C: David, there's no particular face of trafficking. We have seen different situations involving traffic victims. We have seen persons speak to observing persons who are confined in spaces. They are not saying much, they're being spoken for, they look tattered and battered. We have seen situations where persons say to us that, no, we are seeing these people moving around, they are operating, they have their phones. But there are different levels of confinement because that is what trafficking in persons is. It's a confinement of a person because of their vulnerabilities. Right. What we are also seeing is that there is a new face of trafficking in relation to suspected traffickers being of the same nationality of all possible victims, which is the Venezuelan nationality. But trafficking in persons rarely and truly has a worldwide concept of indicators and it falls in. You're observing large numbers in a location. If you're observing a movement of persons in the nighttime and during the daytime, particular vehicles transporting the women or girls, the tattered and battered, the. You know, there are so many things and of course there is the all time best your personal intuition when you see a situation, that this might not be a perfect situation. [00:07:07] Speaker B: All right, so that is key indicators or indicating points that we as citizens can observe in a community. All right, so human trafficking involves the taking of someone against their will, which borders on kidnapping. [00:07:21] Speaker A: Yes, well, it's similar. Trafficking in persons is akin to a number of different other crimes because like sexual penetration of a minor, rape, indecent assault. So while it is that, it is married to many other crime, we deal specifically with those persons and that vulnerable community that you may find, for example, in the migration of persons from Venezuela that has some economic and political turmoil, the movement of those persons seeking a better life, seeking to make some money, to send back home, it creates vulnerabilities in these persons and it is the exploitation of that vulnerability that leads us to especially trafficking for trafficking in persons for the purpose of sexual exploitation. [00:08:11] Speaker B: You see, that is what is confusing me guys, is I wouldn't say confusing me, but this is why I want my listening audience to understand the thin line between kidnapping someone, sexually assaulting them. I mean, just to reiterate the point, human trafficking is something that restricts the individual from their free movement. Kidnapping, someone does the same. There are different levels of kidnappings, right? We could kidnap you, but we have you out in the, out in the open with us. You're looking normal, like if. But we have you under duress. Could. I'm just trying to get the definitive factors between the trafficking of a human and the kidnapping of someone. [00:08:57] Speaker C: So devi, let me, let me just see if I could help you here. In trafficking in persons, as the director rightfully indicated before, we are required to be to have an evidential base that the DPP would believe that we can prosecute. And that evidential base falls into the divide of what we would call the act, means and purpose. So in a kidnapping we have kidnapping for ransom, which is the forcefully taken of a person without their consent for money. And then we have the one that was without a ransom. Right, so what? In trafficking in persons, an act must take place. So there must be a recruitment and a recruitment, meaning that you communicated with this person via social media or via the phone. Any other form, any form whatever. Recruitment. And is it recruitment in terms of inviting the person to this jurisdiction, let's just say invited them to Trinidad and Tobago. So there's recruitment, there's the transportation. So that's the aiding of the person via, if it's through legal borders or via, which is through illegal smuggling, right? So the transport, the transfer within the confines of Transbago, you move them into different locations and of course the harboring, the location in which you have them confined. So we can have any one of those points in the act. Then we go to the means. So the means talks about coercion. So I could invite you via phone and I could say to you, listen, you need to really come here. And of course I added some deception to that. There is a good job for you in a restaurant, you'll make a lot of money, you'll be able to assist the situation going home. And of course we also have the confines of threat, right? So there could be threat, but threat, what we are seeing threat usually comes upon your arrival to Trinidad and Tobago and then we move to purpose. So the purpose would be for either labor exploitation, sexual exploitation, domestic servitude, organization, and we could go on, on, on, on what are possible exploitation situations. Even being a child soldier is a possible exploitation, right? So we need to have all those facets or one of those facets, right? Act means, purpose under that umbrella, satisfied, save and accept. If you are a child, then we don't need any one of the requirements under means. So that's the distinction. As the director is rightfully saying, this is a very serious crime. It is complex and it falls into there. A lot of criminal activity falls into it because when we say threat, a girl might tell us she was beaten. Being beaten by itself is a criminal offensive assault occasion, actually bodily harm or assault by beaten. But we wouldn't charge for that because that will now constitute the whole concept of the threat for us. Because remember, trafficking in persons could carry a life sentence. So the dynamics of what it is and the aggravated circumstances that surrounds the trafficking in person situation is important. So as what we are saying to you, we will have a trafficking situation that would encompass false imprisonment, because that's what harboring really is. Because having sex with somebody without your consent, even if it is oral or not, it is rape, sexual penetration of children, that is an offense. But we wouldn't charge for those things because those things will be encompassed in the whole trafficking situation once we are able to prove act, means and purpose. [00:12:47] Speaker B: And I love that explanation that you just provided there, act means purpose. Because it still tells me along the line, we are it's still very fine along the lines of I'm holding you hostage. That's basically. But what you just described there, again it still borders on I'm kidnapping you, I'm keeping you under duress. What I did understand and somebody just messaged me and said they understood trafficking to means that they have you for child labor one sexual services or organs. [00:13:25] Speaker C: That's the purpose. [00:13:26] Speaker B: So those are the ones, There's a purpose, yes. [00:13:28] Speaker A: So this is the distinction really what is the purpose of all of this? Is it farm to hold somebody for ransom? Then they go into the realm of kidnapping? [00:13:36] Speaker B: That's kidnapping, yes. [00:13:37] Speaker A: If it is, however it is for, and the law specifies this, is it for labor exploitation? Is it for sexual exploitation? Is it for harvesting organs? Is it for domestic servitude? So this would bring us within the realm, within the rubric of trafficking in persons. I can understand people the distinction not being very clear. But for us, because the act is so explicit and the act prescribes is prescriptive in the way it describes the ingredients for trafficking in persons, it is clear to us. So we take the opportunity to educate people because quite often, I mean sometimes we get a call, sometimes locally, sometimes from the internationally that a child is at a particular place and they can drop a location for us and so on and we run and have to do a rescue. Yeah. Similar to what the kidnapped anti kidnapping squad may do. But because the purpose for that person being held and exploited is for one of the either sex or domestic servitude and so on, it falls within the realm, within the mandate of the counter trafficking unit. [00:14:55] Speaker B: So I am suspected. All right, before I give you that question, one of our texters is saying of course, a superb program as usual. Good morning to both you and your guests. Question to them, are there any systems in place like Amber Alert etc in Trinidad for the citizens that can help in kidnapping and trafficking? This Amber Alert, what is this? [00:15:14] Speaker C: So Amber Alert is a us, the American version. Yeah, Hotline and we have our hotline, Our hotline is 804 CTU. That's 800 4288. So you can communicate with us if you see anything via that very confidential private hotline that is only answered by officers attached to the Counter Trafficking Unit. [00:15:37] Speaker B: When you say officers. [00:15:39] Speaker A: Right. So we call them authorized officers but they come from parent organizations that is involved in the whole law enforcement apparatus in Trinidad and Tobago. So for example, we have persons from the immigration department, we have officers from the police service, we have from the military and together we are the counter trafficking unit. [00:16:00] Speaker B: Let me ask another question. You all get information as the deputy. The deputy sorry and the director. You all get information. You all receive information about a particular house in Malabar. I don't mean it in anybody area. This is a hypothetical here. So you all receive information that you know. There's a couple children I notice in this house. They're here with these adults but something is a bit off. They don't seem to be their parents. What moves happens then? [00:16:34] Speaker A: Well, we have, we have. I call it the toolbox. We have various tools in that box. If it is such that we clearly could suspect a case of trafficking in persons then we can lead maybe a police unit, a highly experienced police unit to go in that place and investigate to find out whether in fact that is so. If it is however that we have information that a person may be held against their will, we will organize a group and go and rescue that person and do the investigation all the way up to prosecution at that level. [00:17:13] Speaker B: I don't want my listeners to be confused. I want us to leave here thoroughly educated on these matters. So pardon me if I have to ask this question. Do you all have powers of arrest? [00:17:29] Speaker A: This is why we are configured as a multi agency unit. Because the police officers who are present there, they have the power of arrest. Immigration in certain circumstances they have the power to detain and to arrest. And then we have the intelligence coming out of that. We put together a good sight picture of what it is we are faced with. So by putting the police officers within the unit and you ordain them authorized officers, you have that power of arrest. Power to investigate, power to prosecute, power to give evidence before the court. [00:18:01] Speaker B: Because the thing about it is the deputy said that the law victims in could be a phone call under false pretense promising you a job. And when you reach here, they hold you right? So you're reaching the country. I'm walking you through a scenario. So they call Mary Jane. Mary Jane arrives, she's picked up at the airport or at the port, wherever she's picked up and she's taken for lodging. But we promise you accommodation. Be glad you're here. Welcome to the country. You'll get a nice job in this restaurant where you can earn money and you can send back to your family home. We understand. But when Mary Jane comes in the place, Mary Jane gets the job. So she's working. Mary Jane started to realize well wait is not just waitressing. I have to do I now have to perform sexual acts. Mary Jane can't Go. No way. I not kidnapping my. [00:18:50] Speaker A: Let me be a little more granular in how this is done. [00:18:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:54] Speaker A: So in Venezuela, you have a recruitment taking place on one of the. The Internet platforms, Facebook, Trinidad. They show you similar Latin girls on the beach in Tobago drinking pina colada and so on. And they tell you come, you could get a job in a bakery here. And you jump on a boat in Venezuela and you come through Cedrus, that is the end of your life. At that point, you know, it's not taking you away. And no, no, no, they throw you in a van and carry in a bar, spa or some. Some holding place and then they put you to work. They tell you you have a debt of $20,000. How are you going to pay it? This is the reality of it. Yeah. And it is so. It is so evil down there that some people, when you give them that milestone, if you make $20,000 through prostitution, we'll set you free. You know, they transfer you to somebody else and that other person tells you you have a debt of 20,000. It is very, very traumatic. It's nothing nice about that. Yes. It's young people being snatched and their flesh is being sold. And in Trinidad and Tobago, we seem to have a high disposition to consume that flesh. [00:20:04] Speaker B: I don't like how that song. But it's the facts. Yes, it is the facts. So my question to you all, what are some of the preventative measures? Is the CTU taking to deal with this rather than react to the situation when it already happens? How can we prevent it? [00:20:20] Speaker A: This is why we are here. We have a 4P platform and one of those P's is protection. And in order to protect the public, we have to go out and tell them what is happening out there. Yeah. We have to sensitize them as to. Look, this thing is happening right within your community. Yes. It can happen to your local children. How many children go missing and how many of them come back? Is there a possibility? I'm not saying there is. Is there a possibility that they can be victims of trafficking? Of course there can be, yes. So we have the. The migration flow from South America creating vulnerabilities. But if it's in Trinidad and Tobago here, sometimes young people, they compete with each other. Social media, and that in itself creates vulnerability there. Yes. People will lure them. People offer them all sorts of things so that they make them feed their ego and it can expose them to. To exploitation. [00:21:22] Speaker B: I'm going to ask you all to. To. To. To give me an incident that you all would have been involved in nothing that is active at the moment, no names to be called, but just to help Trinidad and Tobago identify and understand the reality, the seriousness it is happening within our borders. There are many people believe right now human trafficking. Yeah, we are kidnapping. They kidnap you for ransom. They believe that the kidnapping is only done to persons who have money. They don't think that the average young lady, young man, woman, boy can be taken or snatched. So one case that you all that is already done dealt with, you all have to call names just to give a stark reality as to what happens within our shores. [00:22:08] Speaker C: Trinidad and Tobago this year celebrated two conviction. So I can speak to you about two scenarios, but I would always speak to you about the one that I was involved in. Our very first conviction came in November 2023. And the scenario was just as simple as this Trinidadian female at the time she was 16 years old, was sought in some level of employment for the vacation because of whatever was her economic status at home. So she wanted to be able to assist herself in purchasing of her items to return to school. Went through the ads in the local newspaper and saw that there was a position available as a sales click, attended an interview and at that interview she was boldly informed that the job was really to be an escort and explain to her what the escort has to do, you know, go out with men, that kind of thing. Of course, not being very clear, but clear enough that she understood what an escort meant. She at that time prompted and indicated that she was not interested and left. Sometime later she's communicated and said, I have a position available at a bar as a bartender. Now here we go in a 16 year old bartend bartendering. So, so she goes there and during that process she was groomed by the gentleman. Groomed in a way that she eventually took a liking to the gentleman and one day while she was working at indybar, he came to her and said, listen, I have a client that came from America and I need you to go with me to have this man facilitated. And that was the beginning of her trafficking experience as a Trinidadian girl within the limits of Trinidad and Tobago. And that story is going to be told in the and has been being told in Sarah. So in November 2023, Sarah came and gave her evidence in the court and Mr. Anthony Smith is now facing 15 years imprisonment for trafficking of a minor Trinidadian girl within the limits of Trinidad. So it is real, very real. [00:24:36] Speaker B: Devi, the sad reality of what you just painted there is that she had to carry out these acts in order to get this evidence. I would imagine that refusal could have meant death. [00:24:47] Speaker A: Certainly, certainly there's no these guys. And they, let me tell you, there's no distinction between trafficking network and an ordinary criminal gang. You know, the only difference is the economy. They're dealing in flesh. Some may deal in other illicit activities, stealing cars and so on, but this is the coming together of two or more persons to commit a criminal act, you know, and the economy in this case is the human flesh. So. [00:25:18] Speaker B: So he's now serving a sentence of 15 years for human trafficking. Yes, I have a message that came in that I want you all to listen to. This text is asking a question. [00:25:31] Speaker D: Devi, I want you to ask your guests on them there. What is the cost in terms of one of those individuals when they come from overseas like Venezuela or Colombia, what is the cost attached to them to the persons engaged in the human trafficking? Because there's a cost attached to that and the cost is 25 to $30,000 per individual. There's a time frame in which you have to pay back this money, mean working and engaging in all sorts of manner of things to pay back this money. And it's equating to six months. So I want them to share that with me. And let's. [00:26:09] Speaker A: Quite often a person is when they're recruited, especially, I don't mean to single out Venezuela, but the vulnerability that exists there due to their circumstance makes them sort of predisposes them to that type of exploitation. But quite often the stories we hear is that the recruitment is done online. The person shows up at either Guerria or Tocopita, very close to Trinidad, and they bought a boat. So far they haven't spent any money. But however, when they reach here, the caller is right between 20 and 25 and sometimes $30,000 is a bondage, a debt bondage that he has to pay. But the thing about it is that sometimes you never, you can never finish pay that because the traffickers and they are so ruthless, when it's almost time, they send you to another trafficker in the network and he said, well no, you came to me. Now they, the debt is revived, is renewed. So that person is trapped in a cycle of exploitation that creates so much trauma that when they come to us, we have a broken person that we have to make sure they have the medical, they have the psychosocial, they have the psychologist and so on to bring them back as whole as possible. And hopefully we can have them give that to the experience. And, and if they can point to a perpetrator we are ready to deal with them. [00:27:31] Speaker B: How often do you all get persons away from these predators? How is that done? [00:27:37] Speaker C: As often as we can. So the Counter Trafficking Unit, as I indicated before, we are referral based and then of course we are reactive based also. So as director said, once we get information, we will launch exercises do rescues. We have had some significant success over this last period here in Operations, Thinking Point and G Ride. And of course it is an economy because in G Ride we were able to seize over 160,000 TT dollars in that operation and we rescued four women and we also retrieved an illegal fire. So we understand the dynamics of what we do. At present we have trafficking victims who are housed under the authority. We have about nine of them there and then we at this time have seven women in our care and custody. So as much as we are trying to do the work, it doesn't mean that seven alone we had for the period these women, after we do necessary things in terms of the investigation, they have the option to return home until they're ready for court. And most of them take the option because they leave behind mothers, fathers, they leave behind their children. So they want to return home to. [00:28:59] Speaker B: Then they're going home as shell of the person that they were. [00:29:02] Speaker A: Certainly to add to that, we sometimes we get reports or requests from the mutual legal assistance from the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela where a family would go and say, look, I have a child in Trinidad. She was able to get a phone and contact me. This is the location. And they would send that request to us and we will action it and make sure. And sometimes we build a case out of that. [00:29:25] Speaker B: Do you all do sting operations at all? [00:29:27] Speaker A: Yes. I wanted to know that we weren't elaborating. [00:29:31] Speaker B: No, no, because the thought come to mind, you know, you all put a decoy in there to see what is happening. You know, we often see that on the US side, television networks and stuff like that. So we do do thing operations. Guys, I want to thank you all for coming in. You know, somebody's asking about brothels all over Trinidad and Tobago. Do you all look into that? [00:29:50] Speaker A: Certainly the bars, the spas, the brothels, you know, these are the fronts. These are the workplace of persons who are exploited. So, you know, then they need somewhere to apply the trade. And sometimes it is done in a community. Yeah, you call the community just. It's quite possible. Yeah. And then they have the, they have the trips where the person will go out to a particular place, their clients ply the tree and then they're returned. [00:30:23] Speaker B: So at that time, they can't escape and that's it. [00:30:27] Speaker C: They can, but the bondage is psychological. It is a debt, is debt, different types of bondage. So we have had situations where girls tell us that they made attempts, they stayed a little longer and they were beaten severely. So there's a lot of things that would cause them to feel as though they have no escape, you know, in the situation. But as I'm on, I would really want to employ Trinidad and Tobago to communicate with the Counter Trafficking Unit. Anytime you see something, we are able unit, as the director indicated, we have a toolbox and we usually get tools out of that toolbox to do what we need to do. Contact us at 800 for CTU. And July 30th, we wear blue in commemoration of World Day against Trafficking in Persons. Because as a country, we have to at least show that there's a humanitarian touch to what Trinidad and Tobago is about. And we really don't want persons to believe that that's the crime that we are going to encourage in our sweet twin island. [00:31:33] Speaker B: I like how you put it, boy. Our sweet to an island. You know, you describe something, somebody is like, my gosh, they love your description. You know, there's an appetite for flesh in Trinidad and Tobago, and as we laugh about it, but it's a very, very startling reality that we are facing in this country and we cannot ignore it. Human trafficking is becoming a cancer that is eating away at the fabric of our human, our humanitarian needs or us as humans. It's eating away at us and we have to, you know, find some way. I don't know how we can get it off totally, but identify it in its embryo stages and nip it in the bud, as we just say in Trinidad and Tobago. Finally, they are asking that you share contact info how they can get in touch with you guys anonymously. People are asking. I don't know if they have information to share, but I got a couple messages asking for that information. [00:32:28] Speaker C: Again, we can be contacted at 804 CTU. That's 804 288. We also can. We can also write us on our social media handles, countertrafficking unit TT on Instagram and you can send us a private message on Facebook for the Facebook users. Our email address is counter trafficking unit. [00:32:51] Speaker B: Ns.Gov.Tt all right, come to trafficking unit. [00:32:57] Speaker A: N s.gov.tt if I may just quickly here. We like to assure the public, too, that we place a very high premium on confidentiality. We know that that persons Sometimes are fearful to make reports. So we. That's the premium. Our unit is a vetted unit, polygraphed and specially selected to recognize the importance of being very, very confidential in what we do. So persons who reach out to us, we can guarantee at this point. Well, of course, they can't guarantee anything, but you could guarantee that that information is not going to leak from us. [00:33:36] Speaker B: Persons are saying to me this morning that this interview was an eye opener. One text saying to me he had no idea that existed in Trinidad and Tobago to this level and to this magnitude. So the numbers again, 804. CTU, 804, 288. It is confidential. The Amber Alert, they can read it. They said, okay. They tell me to share something in my spare time. But they're also saying Amber Loot has to deal with something else other than just intervening. [00:34:08] Speaker C: Right. [00:34:09] Speaker B: This interview is an eye opener and it's very disturbing. Thank you very much, Dexter, for sending in your messages. We didn't get any, but there was some calls, but we couldn't take any at this time. Thank you again, Deputy Director. I appreciate you coming in online with us this morning. And you, good sir, for making it into the studio. I was looking like this right through now. So people watching on socials, we have them on Zoom and we have them in studio. So thanks again and do have yourself a safe and productive day ahead. All right, take care. [00:34:35] Speaker C: All right, thank you so much. [00:34:36] Speaker B: You're welcome. [00:34:37] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability, the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.