ZONES OF SPECIAL OPERATIONS PROS AND CONS

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5. [00:00:08] Speaker B: Former Police Commissioner Gary Griffith. Good morning and welcome back to Freedom. How are you this morning, sir? [00:00:12] Speaker A: Fine, thank you. Good morning to you and to your many listeners and viewers. [00:00:16] Speaker B: Thank you so much for answering the call. I know you had a very busy morning. The media seems to be wanting to grab a hold of you. But I'm very pleased to know that Guardian Media took the initiative and catch you first. I don't think you're starting any other program thus far. CNC3 had you on the morning, bro, and now you're here with me. The thing about it is, Gary, just last week I was reading where you spoke on the newspaper. You did an article where somebody interviewed you from Guardian Media and you did reiterate the point that you recommended this. In the past you talked about zozo zones of special operations as a form of arresting crime and criminals in this country. Now that is our doorstep. We had one professor pushing back against it, stating that when it was used in Jamaica, depending on who you ask about it, it will talk about its effectiveness or ineffectiveness to arrest transnational crime. And of course, you know, you heard about it. So coming home, one has to ask, what are the pros and cons? And you are a very strong advocate for it, a recommender of, of this long before now that, I mean, you probably felt really proud to see that it's being initiated. Let's talk about the pros and cons of having that in Trinidad and Tobago. [00:01:32] Speaker A: Sure. All right. Good morning again. So going back to the, to the comment made by that criminologist who said transnational crime shifting is what takes place. Let me tell you, if France decides, if France ends up winning the Football World cup this year, he will say it's because of the transnational crime of the Mexican cartel. Every single comment this individual makes, he speaks about the transnational crime with the Mexican cartel because that is the only thing he did researching in law enforcement. And the sad thing is the media wouldn't say, well, show us the data, show us the empirical testing, the evidence that you have to verify that he has none. He continues to speak about his transnational crime being the be all and end all for everything that takes place in Trinidad and Tobago. So I ask the country to please rubbish him because unless somebody could bring data, documents, empirical testing, evidence, recordings, he's just making things based on his own personal belief. So that has been thrown out the window. There's nothing to show that crime has been reduced during the SOE in Trinidad and Tobago because of transnational crime shifting. The fact of the matter is that the ZOZO has been done twice in Trinidad and Tobago before and the country may not be aware of it. Firstly, Patrick Manning implemented a Zone of Special Operations when he called a State of emergency to deliberately put a Speaker of the House under house arrest. That was zosu. That was an arm of ZOSU where he utilized the State of emergency specifically to home in on one individual to have a place under house arrest. Now that ZOSU was used for political purposes, another element of how ZOSU was used was under the same Kamala Posad. He says, so when she was Prime Minister, I was Minister of National Security. There was a spike in crime in Laventille and I asked for permission for me to move forward. And I drafted an operational plan bringing in 150 soldiers and police officers. And we locked down Laventille in and out of corner. Anything, nothing was in, nothing goes out without the police and the army knowing. And in three months, I think there was just one murder in Laventill that was a domestic violence matter. It was the safest Laventill ever was. So the data is there to show that a Zone of Special Operations, you, a specific target, utilizing your resources from different arms of national security, people felt safe. My biggest critic, Fitzgerald Heinz was in Parliament, actually commended me for it, stating that the exact words would have been, I wish to commend the Minister for his achievement, for what he has done in Laventille. If that operation has done such success. I applaud the achievement. The everyday persons in Laventille, they felt safe, they felt good, they felt comfortable knowing that there was that conversion of so many troops in one area to make them feel safe. So the data is there not just in Jamaica, but also Trinidad and Tobago. Let me now turn to the state of emergency. For the last 14 months, we had a state of emergency in this country by two different governments. And at what time has there been one report of abuse of authority by the law enforcement agencies outside of the remit of what. What they can do based on that proclamation? So the State of Emergency allows the same laws and powers for the law enforcement officers to be used under ZOZO, but in a smaller area. So if we never had any reports of abuse of authority by the law enforcement agencies for the last 14 months under the State of emergency, what is the red herring being used now? That if you're using it in a smaller area, it will now be abused and that is why it is I insist that the body cameras must be a mandatory process in these operations to take away that perception of that abuse of authority. I want to also add that because of a state of emergency being done in Trinidad and Tobago for 14 months, a state of emergency being used to incarcerate gang leaders, gang members, lieutenants, shooters, assassins, obviously it will cause crime to go down and that's what has happened. But when it is, you automatically lift the state of emergency and you go back to normal to these individuals are going to come out in full force, they're going to retaliate, they're going to fight back for their turf, they're going to target individuals for not listening to them and you're going to get a massive spike and there's going to be collateral damage. ZOSO can very well provide that cushion, that avenue for us to get back to normal without this type of proclamation that can cause the law enforcement agencies to arrest persons indefinitely, to be able to enter homes without a warrant and so forth. So it allows that cushion. And again, as I said, the state of emergency and so I usually would not have done it as Minister of National Security I didn't call for zosu. I was able to utilize but at that time that government we were able to put in policies, systems, programs, units, technology from the Rapid Response Unit, Community Comfort Patrol, the National Security Special Operations Group, National Operations center, damned vessels, the online reporting police app. So, so many things we did in 2014 it was and we had the same number of murders in 2014 as the, as we had last year, almost about the same without a state of emergency. But because the two senior persons in law enforcement now, the Minister of Homeland Security and the Commissioner of Police remember they were middle management. So they may not have the capacity to know how to come up with units, technologies, policies. In the last year they have not put without warning. So in the absence of that, I think the government should be commended that because the only way crime can go up or down is the change in policies, changing systems, changing in persons. So if you have not put anything else, I think it was important that the government put a state of emergency. Had that not been done and you didn't have one new policy or unit or technology, we would have probably gone back to 600 murders. So indirectly the government has probably saved hundreds of lives by doing what they did. And this also is, as I said, is a cushion in to continue a process in the absence of those in authority not having the capability to come up, think outside the box and it's not just not knocking down. It's like if you put me to build a rocket ship, I wouldn't know what to do unless I bring in persons. And again, sometimes people say, well, you know, These guys have 30 years of experience. It's like seeing a plumber for 30 years he's fixing toilets when all you ask him to be the chief engineer for an aircraft carrier. It doesn't work that way. So in the absence of that, I think it is very good that the government has done what was required to have the state of emergency and also the zone of special operations that can make sure we can target specific areas. Not about profiling but about making sure that we can lock down areas to prevent crime from escalating. [00:07:59] Speaker B: One of the concerns, Gary, this morning is that there's going to be racial and political decisions. Not decisions, no. Let me get to what exactly I want to share with you this morning because just a few moments ago my morning poll question was do you believe there would be racial and political bias when areas are being declared zones of special operations? I had 20% of my official count on callers this morning telling ME yes, while 80% believe no. How do we mitigate the facts that when this actually rules out we cannot, we can see through and realize or maybe negate the fact or put it away that it would not be politically or racially biased when our prime minister who has veto power in declaring areas zones of special operations. [00:08:51] Speaker A: Sure. Again, the data, it goes to data in contrast to what the criminologist continues to see. That criminologist, the data will very well show and again it may be that the commissioner of police will just bring the data and say bomb. These are just the breakdown of murders throughout the country. So we have more murders in X place and Y place. So that's where we'll have zosu. And if that is the case and the data is there to show that you can't just automatically signal and try to profile a decision making process based on the data. Stats don't lie. So the stats may have more persons of Afro Trinidadian composition in an area that you have Zozo, you didn't select that because of the number of persons who are Afro Trinidadians over Indo Trinidadians which would be based on the crime statistics. Having said that, therein lies my problem because I believe that is what the commissioner and others will do. They are going to select so. So specifically based on the crime statistics. And that is foolish. It is what I said on CNC3. It is similar to if you're into cricket, there's a saying that you should not set feel for bad bowling. You bowling ball, the guy hits the ball in mid run, you put a feeler there, you pull a next ball, you hit the ball cover, you put a player there. That is what they're going to do. If it is, you put ZOZO in specific areas where you have crime, the criminal elements will now could move to different areas. So ZOSU should not be used specifically in a selection process based on where crime has taken place, but to be able to lock down certain areas in anticipation of what persons might be able to plan crime taking place. So in other words, if we know gang leaders, they live in a certain residential area, in a skyscraper, whatever that is, ZOSU let us lock it down in and out of corner. Nobody goes in or out. And we go into that building, that house, that apartment and take all documents, whatever to pinpoint if they involve in gang related activity or so forth. Because that area may very well not be crime riddled, but that is the area that they orchestrate and organize crime. That is where ZUSU should be held. ZU should also be. [00:10:49] Speaker B: Before you continue, I don't mean to cut you, but I want to ask you this so because I realized that you're going into the next question in terms of criminal migration because that's basically what you're speaking about. A crime happens here and if they know, and if they know that criminals reside in a particular area. So tie in your response to locking down Beetham Gardens. And I'm saying Beetham Gardens, Enterprise or some area in Marabella that is known right. By the police station in San Fernando, just next to the police station in Sandwa. Right. There is, there is those apartments that's known to be a hot spot in the Sando area, which is next to the police station in Sando. Right. So if that area is being declared a zone of special operations, how should the government or how does ZOZO assist with criminal migration and being able to target these ones? [00:11:36] Speaker A: Exactly. And again, and by using those examples, you speak about train line, you speak about San Fernando, certain areas in Marabella, you speak about Enterprise. All of those are areas that are more Indo Trinidadian and Afro Trinidadian. Those are constituencies held by the unc. So that alone will show that this is not about selecting. People are trying very hard to try to turn this into a political football game. It should not be. It should be based on trying to utilize your national security resources in an effective and efficient manner. And that is why I said Putin's also unlocking on area that may be riddled with crime. That is putting a plaster on a sore you could set in feel for bad bowling. You need to be able to analyze if the criminals are going to migrate. You need to have proper this for ZOZO to be effective, there must be intelligence driven policing. And if that is not done, then all you're going to do is you're going to keep jumping to certain areas and they're going to migrate. That is why I said if the intelligence shows that certain criminal elements are in a specific area at a specific time, that is when you hit. And it could be a residential area in the west, because even myself, I actually made raids in West Moorings in Goodwood Gardens to be able to deal with human trafficking, to release minors who involved in being held as victims for prostitution, persons involved in drugs and whatever. The police sometimes will be reluctant to do so because if you take a hit in those areas and you don't get it, they start on your case. But that is where ZOSU gives them the opportunity. They can move into those areas, incarcerate, sorry, arrest those individuals. And let me add, this is not just about dealing with, trying to stop the crime from happening because of the organization of the criminals in specific areas. I will also recommend Zoso be used in the southwestern peninsula. We are not out of the woods as yet as it pertains to the US Venezuela situation. If, heaven forbid, Venezuela turns into civil war with different sides on either side of the fence trying to, to take control of Venezuela. In Venezuela, you're going to have massive, hundreds of thousands of persons trying to move away. They're going for asylum, they're going to be looking for refugee status. Picture 250,000 Venezuelans landed in Trinidad in one week is going to affect our economy, it's going to affect health, it's going to affect housing, it's going to affect education and it's going to affect national security. 250,000 people arriving here and not contributing to the public is going to cripple Trinidad and Tobago. There should be a zone of special operations in that southwestern peninsula to make sure we can prevent persons from entering Trinidad and Tobago. People will say it's being cold, but I am being logical. We have to look after ourselves first. I saw it when I was in the United nations mission in Haiti. There were tens of thousands of Haitians getting across to Jamaica to Bahamas just trying to flee. And they were trying to find ways to stop it because once you land, they're going to claim refugee status and we can't get them out. So that zone of Special operation, having every Coast Guard vessel we have capable, having the US Support locking down there to prevent that possibility, that is also where Zone of Special Operations should take place. Which is why I recommend that it should not just have been a major who can lead the operation, but also that of a lieutenant commander. Because this Zoso can also be naval driven based on the situation, because there could be rigs, there could be vessels, there could be an island down the islands, and Coast Guard should have a part to play in a zone of Special operation. [00:14:56] Speaker B: May I ask you, based on what you're saying this morning and the way you're explaining things, thank you very much, though, for clearing up some issues. Are you saying that these zones of Special Operations would not be specific and targeted to one area for no length? It could be shifted at a moment's notice? [00:15:12] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Because. And therein lies the problem. If it is, you put a zone of Special operation in Laventille alone, just for indefinitely, and then crime is going to shift. I was forced to do that in 2014 as the Security Minister because of the problem. Those gangs were there and it was causing havoc. So for three months, as I said, we locked it down and that was it. Laventille was never so safe. So it showed that Zoso being used in that manner can very well be effective. But there's also the situation where Zozo can be flexible. You can move forward, you shift from one to another, you can hold, you can attend the curve, you can. It's only up to 72 hours. So things like that can be used. So you get the intelligence. You realize that we know that There are about 500 weapons in a certain area, in a certain house or whatever. Bam. Zu. So you lock it up in and out of court, and nobody goes in, nobody gets out. You can make an immediate arrest without having to seek a warrant, because sometimes you get the warrant, you get all of these things by that time. Now they get out. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Let me ask you something. As you talk about, you get in, you get intel. Intel is something that you have to act on with swiftness and quickness. Your car laps when you get that intel, right? Given the fact that you don't need to get a warrant from a judicial officer. And you say, we could immediately lock it down. And as we lock it down, nobody gets in, nobody gets out. But then you're talking about citizens like myself who has to traverse to get to work, to and from kids that Go to school outside of the area in which we live. How does that affect citizens? Wouldn't that create an influx of persons trying to get to our police station to get what you call a permission form or a letter, you know, to say that I have to go to work or you know, with the government before issuing this zozo. Have they taken into consideration how persons would be able to acquire permission within that 72 hour curfew and lockdown? [00:17:04] Speaker A: Yeah, you have a good point. And that is where it is. The flexibility will come in. So for example, if you decide to lock down a specific building or an area in Seashaguanas or something and you have that in and out of cordon, anything that comes out, it doesn't mean that we are going to prevent you from getting out or prevent you from getting in, but it gives the police now the authority to search your vehicle and that's all it is. So it's not to say that we are going to lock you down and you can't get in or out, but it gives them that permission to be able to search your vehicle. Check and make sure that you're not being used as a conduit to try to get drugs or weapons out of the area, human trafficking or so forth without in the absence of that. The only time that law enforcement officers can get into a home immediately without a warrant is a life or death situation which happened with myself as commissioner. Where it is that we know persons were being kidnapped and we knew where the victim was. By the time we go to get that warrant and get it, it's too late. We went straight in there, kicked down the doors and that's how we were able to rescue 12 kidnap victims consecutively, arrest the kidnappers and rescue the victims. That never happened before. Now we've gone back to the old type of policing, pay the ransom. The kidnappers hopefully will tell you where the person is and any police will say it was an intelligence driven operation. [00:18:14] Speaker B: But Gary, you talk about kicking on the door and getting in. There was not were there ever any pushbacks with that type of operation. And congratulations on of course attaining those 12 victims safely. But when you take that decision as a police commissioner to run in stark contradiction to the law that says you need to get a warrant to go in. You mentioned life and death. Does the constitution allows for police operations in those instance where life and death, you can breach the premises and go in, would you be able to secure conviction or would there not be a lawyer arguing? Well listen, you had no permission to come in here so number one, you break the rule. [00:18:47] Speaker A: Yeah, right. So in a life and death situation. So if it is that we knew through the special operation response team, we got intelligence back. We knew that this lady is being held in a, in a hotel or something, or a guest. Also a place in San Fernando, in a house. We're not waiting on a warrant, we're getting in there immediately. We kick down the door B and we extract it. There's nothing that you could do because we found the kidnapper. So, so it, the law allows that the police can actually get into any premise in premises without a warrant if it's a, if it is perceived as a life and death situation. So it doesn't give you a get out of jail free card because we didn't get a warrant. If it is pertaining to a search or something like that, it's not life for them. That's where ZOSU comes in. Now it gives the police that authorization similar to the state of emergency. The state of emergency gave them that authority to be able to get into homes without a warrant. That is where the state of emergency takes away some of your constitutional rights, which is that person that the police can search your homes, whatever, without a warrant, they can arrest you indefinitely and you cannot get bail. So that is the type of power that the law enforcement officers can have in Zoso, similar to the state of emergency. But as I said, with the state of emergency for 14 months, there was not one report of abuse of authority by the police officers outside of the remit of what was given to them through that proclamation of the state of emergency. So ZOSU is just a smaller system. What I want to strongly recommend is to ensure that there would not be abuse of authority. It must be mandatory that every police officer must wear that body camera and it must be switched on. Four years ago, as commissioner of Police. Also, there's a standard operational procedure. There's a standing order that makes it mandatory. You have to wear the body camera. If you do not wear it, you will be suspended. Why? Three commissioners after me have refused to enforce that operational procedure, that standard order. That is a standard operational procedure. There are enough body cameras, 1200 body cameras. They are not. There are no more than 1,000 police officers on operational duty at any one time. So you sign for the body camera just like a weapon, you put it on patrol, roadblock warrant, operation raid, whatever, when you return, when you hand it back in and we test to see if it is. You had it on. That is not being done. And so the lie that they're saying that, well, every officer must get an issue. Stupidity. Because if they get an issue and they don't return it, how you know that they're going to use it? It must be returned constantly for us to check which is what we were doing. And that's what forced them to use the body cameras. So the body cameras being mandatory, it is a critical element to take away that perception that the public, they believe that there's going to be abuse of authority. [00:21:20] Speaker B: And I like that. I think that is some of the pros that we can look forward to in terms of accountability and transparency. One texter is asking you this morning, Gary, why can't we use the current laws and increase police presence in those same areas without the need of suspending the rights of individuals, imposing curfew and increasing the authority given to police? I think you cleared up that question quite nicely. One text I say I fully agree you cannot set feel for bad bowling. But when the bad bowling continues, the captain has to change the field, the population has changed. The bowler already criminal and of course we need to be death bowling. Now this text is asking about criminals that live aboard. Let me get to this question for you as we getting closer. 19 before the top. As it relates to the curfew or the lockdown, you mentioned that persons coming in and out of the community, legitimate persons can be searched to ensure that they will not be in use by criminal elements to try to transport individuals or finance money or even drugs. Now when police lock down an area and a curfew is imposed, let's take Santa Flora the area or Diamond Veil, you lock it down, all strategic points, exits and entrances closed. But you still have legitimate persons coming in and home or persons having to come out of their homes outside of the the curfew is there leeway for persons for free movement once they can verify or validate that they are going to a place of work or such things like that, whether they go into the hospital for an emergency or is it that once the curfew is imposed and the lockdown happens, if they see you come in, they can stop you, search you and turn you away from coming into the. [00:23:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because that's what a curfew is. Basically. If there's a curfew and it means that the curfew is from say 6pm to 6am no one can be out in the streets. I cannot and would not see the zoso being used in that manner. I think it was just incorporated in the eventuality of an extreme situation because throughout the state of emergency, there was no curfew that we put out. And if it is that there was no curfew then and crime is actually going down, I can't see on the Zoso you're going to put a curfew because when you put that curfew, you're basically stating that persons are not allowed to leave their homes. And with that type of curfew, it is going to affect many persons in that community in trying to take their children to school, trying to go to work. It can affect their job. So there's a lot of things that can that can be negative. Unless, like what I had with myself when I was commissioner and there was a curfew for a few months in that curfew, I gave out 25,000 passes. And the 25,000 passes was to ensure that the country continued to operate. So again, if it is that you're going to have a curfew. But again, persons had the police commissioners, I will give them the approval so that they will have the curfew parts to say, listen, I am working in point, Lisa. I have to go to work. I am teachers and certain persons will have the approval to be allowed to enter and leave. But personally, with a zozo, I can't see it being done through that of a curfew. I think it is more to have an operational lockdown. And the last caller, again, I had did a zone of special operation, as I said, in 2014 in Laventille without the proclamation, without that state of emergency, without that curfew, without isoso. But that was a different time because at that time we had so many things we were pumping, as I said, we had the Community Comfort Patrol, we had the Rapid Response Unit, we had the National Security Special Operation Group. We had so many different units and systems and technology that complemented the operation. There's nothing like that now. All of these things were dismantled and removed by the PNM for the last 10 years. And the new commissioner has not brought in one new policy system unit technology. So in the absence of that, the law enforcement agencies, they basically have to do exactly what is required, which is just to lock down Laventille or wherever. That's what I did then, or whichever piece it is. And I don't think there's going to be a need for a curfew per se. I think once it is, you have that in and out of cordon, it's going to assist in reducing crime. And I think citizens in that area should be comfortable to know that I am safer now knowing that there's an increased presence of law enforcement. [00:25:43] Speaker B: Hello, good morning. [00:25:44] Speaker C: Good morning Davy. And Good morning to Mr. Griffith. I find that the accusation of racial discrimination in this operation is very Israel ridiculous and then it's based on nothing but just speculation and conjecture. And this is, this has been the PNM playbook ever since I was a little boy to cry race, race, race, race. And I want to ask the people who making this accusation who is the Minister National Security and who is the Commissioner of Police? I'll leave it here, thank you. [00:26:23] Speaker B: I hear what you're saying and I thank you for sharing. Now Gary, I want to ask you. They are saying that the what I'm asking basically who do you think is the right persons when sitting with the Prime Minister bringing data to the table to declare these zones of special operations while she vetoes the power to declare it and say okay, this is what we're doing. Who could the public be told who sits at that table to provide this intel before it is rolled out to these communities? [00:26:54] Speaker A: That's where the problem lies. When we drafted that national operations center, $500 million in taxpayers money and the National Operations center did that for us in 2014 he was able to provide the information to the Prime Minister. These are the amount of gang members, these are the amount of shooters. This is where they live. This is how much drugs they're transporting. These are the number of state contracts that they had. I had battles with my own ministers because of government giving state contracts to these guys. When the National Operations center packaged this and gave it to the Prime Minister she said okay Gary, go with it. Lockdown Laventille. So she can only make decisions, inform, informed basis based on what is given to her. There's no National Operations center right now. There's nothing. The person who has taken it over is a guy who said I know to run an NOC because I used to use a walkie talkie to talk to my officers in the 70s. So the technology there is mind blowing. I don't think there's a police officer that understands the backbone and how that National Operations center works that can transform national security in this country. So in the absence of that the only thing she's going to be left with is the commissioner coming and see prime minister. There were 12 widows in Laventille. There were nine widows in Enterprise. There were eight murders in Train line. So let's put Zozo there. Bad management, that is not how you use Zosu. Zozo is not just about looking at where the murders take place. But again, the commissioner, remember he was in charge of about 10 men. He was middle management. He doesn't have that ability to expand his threshold in understanding how to do a joint operational system with using other arms of law enforcement, having a tactical strategy, having covert operations operations undercover officers using drones, having confidential informant scenarios. He doesn't understand those things. So because of that he's going to go to the. To the template. These are the murders. Let's put Zosu there. And therein lies the problem. [00:28:47] Speaker B: That's a dangerous precedent. Good morning. [00:28:49] Speaker C: That is what we referring to. [00:28:51] Speaker B: Quickly please. [00:28:53] Speaker C: That is what we're referring to. The police can. Police commissioner can't solve the problem. So as there are two murders in a certain community, he throwing the police. And that means the police are the option to run anyone's house within that community. So when a man called to tell you look at the race at the police commissioner, that's not our issue and we understand why it is. To put a man of that race r to do exactly what it is Gary now pointing out to happen what we don't want happen. Enjoy the day. All right, I have one more point for you. I could understand your issue, you know, but you see, sometime, however, you are not the only bright. Not because you went to San Jose, you're the brightest military man in tr. I mean, the commissioner police ain't so bright. Much less, much less the national Security Minister. But I get them out. [00:29:43] Speaker A: Yes, sir. Yes. [00:29:44] Speaker B: I don't understand, but thanks very much for pointing that out. Hello. Good morning. [00:29:49] Speaker A: Morning. [00:29:49] Speaker C: Morning. Morning, Mr. Griffith. Good morning again. Daisy. There are two cases under the SOE. One where one of the girls was given bill, one where the other person is still detained. Could you tell me what mitigated the difference? And also, are we not based on the things that is happening now to cast some judgment? I heard a caller just a while ago saying how everything is raised to the pnf. That's not true. It's both sides, brother. Both sides have complained about racial discrimination. Both sides. So I'm asking you, is it not fair enough to say under the SOE and the zone of the SOE Special operation, what mitigates the difference of one of the ladies getting bail and the other lady not getting bail? And why are we not to be afraid that it will go along these lines? Thank you very much. I'll listen up. [00:30:40] Speaker B: You're familiar with it, right? This is with Olive Green Jack and Arianna, I think is the name. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So again, it goes right back to again, I think the country is not aware. The concern shouldn't be the soe. The concern is not Kamala Posaduces of making the decision or the Ozo. So the concern has to do with professional policing. In the situation with the bill, there can be a situation where the prosecution, the state will say listen, this person is a clear and present danger to the community. So we are recommending that bail not be granted. Based on the situation of the soe, another individual may have been arrested and they realize that the person is not a danger or threat to national security. So they may not have pressured the court to ensure that bail is not granted. That could very well have been the situation. I don't know what would have taken place behind the scenes but it goes right back to my point about policing. It is important. That's why the body cameras is one system. But if we have reached a point on you hear the commissioner of police, every comment he makes is about I have extra handcuffs and I'll let you know but I have plenty of space in the jail and jail is not a nice place. He is one of those old school policing that they feel that everything is to lock up people. And by locking up people you put fear in people. When I did the comments of a few more moments later when people told jokes about you and we arrested people, we will arrest them, have them apologize and I will release them and I'll say listen, I'm giving you a warning when I do that. I got hundreds of individuals that will call me Mr. Griffith. Listen, I'll never forget, you know, listen, they have some drugs, so and so they're gonna put a hit on a prison officer. That is the benefit I got by being flexible. By being. By saying look, why will. So I lock up 20 little boys because they went and swam in the. In the CD Bakker sea lots. No, I released them and the parents will thank me for it. And now I will. What we happen now with police? A simple example. Rpf Friday night a young man just had a child. His. His insurance expired two days ago. The insurance didn't call him. He didn't know. The police officer said okay, right. We realize that, that you make a mistake, but you have wreck your condo. Is it a senior police officer jump up? No, the law is the law. Take it and pay 10,000. So this poor fellow now has to find $10,000 which is. Which equates to how much sometimes people pay for bail when they get caught with an illegal firearm. This can cause the individual now to lose his car to lose his job to probably turn to crime. This is where discretion comes in and what we are starting to see now. That is why under my watch the 60% public trust and confidence in the police now it's less than 10%. That is what is important. Police need to make a judgment call. This stupid comment being made of zero tolerance by commissioners before and after me. It is stupidity. There must be tolerance. You must analyze a situation. [00:33:16] Speaker B: Let me ask you a question. Running out of time here but you mentioned something very important and I want you to clear the issues up. We always, we often know that for example in a traffic stop a police officer is judged during executioner. At that point he makes a judgment call whether based on what the breach of the, of the offense, the explanation given by the by the motorist. Whether or not a Bly as we say in Trinidad is given. Can a senior police officer as in what happened on the avenue he gave the first responder to the first officer interacting with said driver recognized the honesty or earnest mistake or error and decides listen, here's what your car drive it as this case is, let's get a record. It probably will cost you cheaper to pay a record 700 to take it to wherever you're living, put it down and then go and get your insurance before you continue. But that officer made a very emotional intelligence driven decision understanding customer service with the motorists. But here comes Inspector Acton, ASP or DCP DIS and says to his junior no Bly, we don't want to hear that issue that could a senior officer put that kind of pressure on a junior who has made a call which in my opinion was a very good one that if the officer don't do it he can be fired, disciplined. What is the status status quo with seniors speaking to juniors who made a decision on a matter? [00:34:51] Speaker A: Yeah. At the spurred on the location the person with the higher ramp makes the final call. So even though the initial officers, the junior officers did the right call, the ignorance comes in. I always keep saying that the most dangerous thing is to give an ignorant personal authority. And that's what I when I encountered the police service and public trust was 14%. I realized that that's why I put the 4A2 gallery. That's why I put the online reporting. That's why I put the police up. Anytime anyone had a concern with a police officer, you call me immediately and I will have a line outside my office. Why did you do that? Do you know? So the police officers realized I can't go and have a Roadblock and stop again and ask her for a phone number. I can't go and be abusive. I know that they will call Gary. It immediately transformed the police officers. It made them accountable. Their performance was measured. There's no longer that I will eat my glasses. If anybody could say that they could contact the commissioner. Nobody has his number. In fact, he blocks people. So it is back to the old school policing. Nobody could get McDonald, Jacob, Lola, Christopher. You can't find them because they've reached that lofty tower. I reach. My style was different. Let the average person realize if it is any police officer will abuse his authority. You go straight to the top. And all police officers started toeing the line. It was good morning ma', am, how are you? Have a nice day. Helping people cross the street because they realized they could be accountable. This situation is a typical example. So let us not be worried about SOE and all that. We have to be concerned that police officers are going back to the old time ways that they feel that I have to be aggressive. My job is to be a traffic one, just to give tickets, to find a broken light and to bust your truth. Those are the things that's going to cause people to lack trust in the police service. And I ask all senior police officers or all officers understand the importance of your training, discretion and understanding. When you get on ignorant like that, those 20, 30 people in Arpit Avenue will never speak to a police officer again. They hate police officers because of what this one stupid officer did. And my point being is that degree of training and maturity must start from the top. But you hear this commissioner, every comment he made. Jaylen, nice. You know I've space in his cell for plenty more of all you and I. Warning all you and I have handcuffs. That is not. That's old time policing. The days of that is over. And I and I just hope that the body cameras can be used as a mechanism to prevent that abuse of authority. [00:37:06] Speaker B: All right, that's the we out of time. Let me hear this person very quickly. [00:37:10] Speaker C: Well, as a basic concept that seems to escape a lot of these police. [00:37:13] Speaker A: Officers, particularly those that in these traffic. [00:37:16] Speaker C: Blockades and that kind of thing, if. [00:37:19] Speaker A: You position yourself to be seen as. [00:37:21] Speaker C: An oppressor, you are never going to get the respect and cooperation of the people because the people will look at you as an oppressor and they will not have respect for you. [00:37:31] Speaker A: Correct? Agreed 100%. [00:37:33] Speaker B: You made a very serious reminder to our citizens. We often remember a few moments later and then you would see those ones apologizing and they're gone. I now understand why you got intel you were able to rehab somebody that built confidence in a system that they felt was broken and oppressive. And I mean if that people could say what they want. But I remember the few moments later and I laughed. I say, you know, today I missed a few moments later. You know, Gary, we outside. We outside on this a few moments later. I want to apologize to the commissioner. We, you know, and I now understand behind the scenes the benefit you you reaped from allowing such individuals as we did say a Bly telling them about the severity of their actions, what it could implicate. And yet still you got information where you was able to arrest serious criminals or arrest a serious crime situation before it unfolded. Gary, I want to thank you. [00:38:37] Speaker A: It's not difficult. You know, all I have to say is watch blue blood watch Chicago PD it is there why can always hierarchy of the police understand get further north of Shakasha carry and understand true policing and we'll get there. [00:38:48] Speaker B: Gary, we will talk again in the not too distant future. Thank you very much. Have a very safe and productive day and it's always a pleasure to have you on Freedom. [00:38:53] Speaker A: Take care, buddy. The best insight, instant feedback accountability the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.