Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: We do have at this point in time joining us via Zoom.
We've spoken to her on numerous occasions and she joins us here this morning again, this time following some announcements made over the weekend about the political party and the decision to contest all 41 constituencies in the coming 2025 general elections. Let's welcome to our program the political leader of the Patriotic Front. That is Mikhaila Pandey. Good morning to you. Welcome to our program.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Hi. Hi. Good morning, Tatash. We're having a little bit of a bad connection, so I hope you're hearing me.
[00:00:47] Speaker A: We're hearing you loud and clear, so.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: I'll be able to kind of navigate what I'm hearing you saying, so that's okay. It just sounds a little bit warped, but that's absolutely fine. Good morning, Trinidad and Tobago.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Yeah, it's nice to have you with us here this morning.
You set a lot of tongues wagging with your announcement over the weekend that the Patriotic Front is intent on contesting the 41 seats in the next general elections. Nominations for potential candidates open today.
This announcement comes after more or less, I don't want to say a lull in activities related to the patriotic front because you probably were working behind the scenes. I don't know. I know that the death of your father would have taken a toll on any kind of activities whatsoever. But the announcement is, I don't want to say it's a shock announcement, but it has taken a lot of people by surprise because it's a bold move to come out and say, listen, a relatively new party on the scene and you, you know, you know, are saying you're going after everybody. So tell us, let's begin by telling us the rationale. What would have led you to this position, your party's position? Because I'm assuming it's not a unilateral decision, it's one that you would have taken with consultations. Tell us about the journey to get to this stage, the announcement that the patriotic front is going to contest. 41 seats.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Sure. And as usual, thank you for having me.
I truly appreciate it.
The decision to do this wasn't obviously taken easily, but it wasn't a difficult one, to be honest.
I think that the country is ready for genuine change and the country is looking for a viable option.
They're looking for something different. People are fed up with what they have right now.
Everything in society appears to be collapsing.
Nothing is functioning. Crime is on the rise, and it's just too much. And people would like a change.
That doesn't mean that you don't like other parties, you just feel like anything else. If you feel something is not functioning, you're willing to go with something that is so.
It wasn't a difficult decision. I do believe political parties should voice themselves, or politicians for that matter, upon people. People have to make that call, and they have been making a call for some time. And as you know, in politics, things come up. It's very fluid. You have to make decisions. And that decision was discussed and we decided it was the right thing to do in all circumstances.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: It's a bold move.
You have to be given that to go after the 41 constituencies. But people are already in the public domain questioning, how is this going to work?
They don't know much about the party. They haven't been told much, they haven't seen much.
And who are you looking for to your, for your support? And a number of questions have been put into the public domain. But let's deal with it bit by bit. You've made a call openly for persons to come forward as potential candidates for your, your party for 41 constituencies. Do you have people already for some of them? Is this. So you're starting from scratch? And for persons who have, are going to heed the call and say, well, here we're going on a fed up of what exists and maybe I need to try something different. How do they get involved?
[00:04:51] Speaker B: Sure.
Okay. So that question is always a very interesting one because people always say to you, you know, do you already have people? Because this country is accustomed to a small group of people sitting in a room and deciding who the candidates are and then have some kind full screening process. So we don't intend to do that.
The interesting thing about social media is that a lot of people believe that if it's not on social media, it didn't happen and nothing has been happening. So, of course, you could not have, you could not have been asleep and then wake up one morning and decide that you're going to contest 41 seats. That would be absolute insanity. So, you know, we have been on the ground and of course, people have shown interest, people who were never really involved in politics or who didn't want to get involved in politics because they didn't like the options available to them. So, yes, I believe that at the constituency level, people should choose or at least have a stay in who their candidates are, not something that we will be, will be doing.
I think, you know, throwing candidates on people is one of the biggest mistakes political parties make. And sometimes in certain areas, it actually costs them the election. So, yeah, you know, the constituencies will choose that. And of course, we've been on the ground and speaking to people, and it's just been an amazing experience and the journey is going to continue.
[00:06:28] Speaker A: Um, what are you expecting?
This is a huge foray for you. Whether you accept it or not, you have huge shoes to fill. There is great expectation from, you know, we, we've had numerous discussions about your father, the influence, what has happened with you in your own political life. And, and I, and I've said to you before that I do not think that the greatest pande story has been written when it comes to Mikayla Pandey just yet. Because you're young, you're vibrant, you have a lot to give to this country. You have time on your side and all these other things. Now taking your party to the stage where you are signaling to everyone else that, listen, it is time. The patriotic front needs to make some sort of move.
What do you expect the response to be based on what people are saying to you or what have they have been saying?
[00:07:21] Speaker B: Well, I mean, it's been amazing, but of course, the answer to what are you expecting? Has to be, I'm expecting to win because I wouldn't go into it if I was expecting to lose. So the response satage has been wonderful.
People have been very positive.
I think the most overwhelming and perhaps moving is the response from the young people who feel excited about politics, which is something that we haven't seen in the country for a very, very long time.
And what's also been very nice is volunteerism.
I didn't see that since very, very younger, probably, with that, where people were coming forward to volunteer their help because politics had changed and had morphed into something where you just, people would sort of expect it to be paid for everything. And volunteerism wasn't there and there was no level of sort of sacrifice. And of course, people should be paid for their services. I'm talking about the fact where people come forward and they actually want to volunteer and they want to help. So our event on Saturday came up and, I mean, it was just all hands on deck and people working together and it's just very exciting. So it's, you know, response has been good and I expect it to grow, but it takes a lot of hard work. So maybe that's why you lose.
It's a very brave thing to do, but if you enjoy what you do and if you believe in what you do, it's, you know, it's just going to be a very, very exciting journey. Do not believe negative messaging and the kind of things that people see every day on the newspaper. So it will, it will be an interesting time.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: Your father has left us with, with.
[00:09:21] Speaker B: Many.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: Throughout his political career.
One of the quotes, well, not necessarily, this is not necessarily a quote, but this is a position that he held fast to and he espoused many times that this country is a two party state and that anything other than two parties means success for the PNM.
How do you, how do you incorporate that into what you're doing? Because this morning on the program, we were talking about it and people were raising it, and the discussion was that anything other than two parties brings about an almost certain victory for the PNM.
There are two parts to this question. Number one, do you subscribe to your father's views? Do you think that over time that has changed? And number two, where do you, or where is the support coming from your party, for your party, rather from any camp? Is it coming from PNM, from UNc, from people in the middle? What's going on?
[00:10:30] Speaker B: Well, I mean, you never, all your support is going to be coming from or where it's going to come from. So that's one thing I think success for the PNM is guaranteed if nothing is done.
We've seen two general elections without any sort of third party. I don't want yourself a third party, so let's put that on the table. To begin with, you call yourself a third party, you've called a place in a race already, and I don't think that's fair.
So we are another part.
Success with the PNM, I think, is guaranteed in 2025 because I don't think that there is any existing parties that can win the PNM, especially if you've lost on two occasions, last one when the PNM was actually on its knees.
The longer you keep the PNM there, as history has shown, they're able to cement themselves in a way that make them very, very, very difficult to move.
You give them 15 years, another 30, some of us who may not be, you know, alive and they may be there, we know exactly what happens. We have seen it happen, and we know that the problem becomes more difficult. And, you know, what can happen in five years. We have seen things like gerrymandering and all this kind of thing, and I don't think that they have a big enough challenge, and I think that they will win if somebody doesn't step up, a viable opposition doesn't step up and do something.
This is my country, and I have to fight for it. That is my duty. In Hinduism, we say Dharma, so I will do what I have to do to sit and say that it has to be one or the other. I think times have changed. I think when my dear, beloved father made that statement, it may have been right and he would have been seeing that for his own personal experiences at that time. I can only now speak for myself and see what is happening in the country and what the reality is.
When you also look at the voter turnout in this country, it has been decreasing, but more. So. Let me. Let me put. Let me answer a little bit of question of, you know, who's going to be your support? I expect my support to come from Trinidad and Tobago. I do not believe in tribal voting and this kind of politics. And I feel that the younger people and some of the more experienced believe that as well.
They do not believe in tribal voting and they want to move away from it because they see that it is not helping anybody more. So if you look at the last local government election, where I believe the voter turnout was 30.30.3 or 30.2%, that was very interesting, because what happens in local government election, which I think is a very important election, but the people that tend to come out to vote in a local government election tends to be your hardcore, or what we say, your base support voters.
That voter turnout was the lowest since 1983. So you're talking about your strong supporters in a time, you know, where you sort of go to the polls to speak. It's the only time you tend to get a voice. People didn't even come out to do that. And what was interesting is that both parties that exist right now try to put it out to the population that 50%, because, you know, we have 14 corporations in Trinidad, so seven was won by one party and seven was won by the other. And what happened, they both allowed the narrative to continue that 50% of the population supported one and 50% supported the other. And it was actually 15% of the population supported one and 15% of the population supported the other. And these statistics, and I don't speak, this is how I feel. I move with statistics and facts. The statistics will show you both past parties lost about 20,000 of their voting support. So this sort of core base and this sort of narrative that is pushed that there must only be two parties, well, then I guess one must go, whatever the case be. I cannot let this detract me in doing my duty and what I need to do, and the others shall do what they need to do. And may the best man win. I don't vote. I don't. Sorry. I don't fight an election to go into opposition.
I fight an election to go into government. So let them choose who wants to be the second party, but we intend to be the first.
[00:15:54] Speaker A: I'm assuming that you have an executive in place, whether it's interim or what's the case. But can you tell us some of the people on your executive.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: You'Ll be seeing some of the people on our executive because we are launching our website. They are not going to be people that you know. So you will read about them.
They're young, educated people.
Your executive, you see again, Satish. It's going to be a wonderful time because the public is going to be educated about what the function of an executive actually is. It's the administrative body of the party, the daily administrative body of the party, not necessarily who your candidates are going to be. So. Yeah, and they've been with me since the party was formed. And we keep growing and it's wonderful. And, you know, all of these things and what the party stands for and what the party believes and what its priorities will all be launched out with its website.
I don't think the days of printing manifesto is something I think has gone. Yeah, we need to become a little bit more technologically advanced.
Sorry.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Well, I'm assuming that when the launch of the launches you spoke about takes place, it'll give the general public more information and the who's who and all of these kinds of things. One of the things in thinking about the interview that we're going to have, that we're having now, I couldn't help but go back to this thing I hear all the time on the program, and probably even when you speak to people generally, people keep saying they want change and they want change and they're not satisfied and they want something else and they want different. And I had to point out to our caller some time ago that change is available.
Change is there. But the same people who tell you they want change, you need to, you need to first clarify what change means to them because that, because you can get a number of answers. For some people who say they want change means move the PNM and put the UNC. Some people who want change means move to item. I fed up a boat and I was something else. And some people who say they want changes, they will take out a couple people from this one and put a couple other people, you understand? And, and that's changed. We call that change. So it means something different to everyone.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Oh, yes.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: But it, one of the things that you, you probably will be asked numerous times and I'll ask you probably, I don't think it's the first time, but I'll ask anyway. What about coalition? Because we abolished all the time that, well, you know, you need to put all your forces together. Everybody opposed to the PNM or whatever else need to come together and with a unified front, whatever that might mean the chances of winning the election and so on. But what's your view on that?
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I just want to go back to what you said. I just, every time you say it, I'm just so grateful. I'm thankful and I said, yes, somebody's saying it. You're right. People say we want change. And I love the fact that you say, and I truly do, that you say, listen, what does change mean to you and what it is you want? I don't want none. Sometimes you want change and you don't know what change you want.
Sometimes change is a thing where you say, I know what I don't want, but I too sure what I want.
It can be any kind of thing. So yes, change is different for everybody.
Right. You know, coalition politics is something that has been forced, not enough forced. We say it's been bandied about, then it's only way to beat the PNM. I mean, seriously, do we think that that good? I wonder who is spreading that around and whether it's loving it themselves because they don't even have to say it or you all have to form a coalition to beat us. We're saying we have to form a coalition to beat you.
This government has failed people in the worst of ways, in every way, every way that we have seen.
In terms of coalition. I'm not going to run. From the question that you asked me, you've always been very kind and straightforward to me and I respect that and I shall treat you in the same way, willing to listen to everybody. But, you know, in this journey where you started and you're running a race and you're going forward, you have to look to the end goal and, and, you know, looking at the side and looking here and looking there and that's okay. You know, you're willing to listen to people. That's fine. Time is of the essence zone. You need to run, you need to work, you need to get out there, you need to speak to people, you need to find out the problems, you need to make solutions. And coalitions are all well and good, you know, but we must start on the basis that we believe and want the same thing. And that cannot simply be to beat the P and M. I just don't believe that because if it's simply to beat the PNM when you get there you fall out and you're quarreling and you're this and you're going to fire this one and that one going to get fired and that one and I don't think who does that help? You need to deal with those things before you get in. You know, the Ner. John Humphrey would have. Would have stated at our event on Saturday that, you know, fired John Humphrey, fired Basdale, fired Kelvin Ramnath, fired. They said this because they didn't want to implement the manifesto that they wrote which was manifesto that Aaron R. Robinson and his body had nothing to do with. You you see what happened within the people's partnership.
Many, many of them said that they signed the document in oh forgive me, in Faizabad. It was a blank document. But I understand that maybe decisions had to be made after because an election was called, snap election was called. I was in the parliament at that time. But you know, you've got to start on the basis that you want the same thing. What are your views on housing? What are your views on crime? What are your views on healthcare? What are your views on pension? You know, parties have to start there. That is the discussion, not we need to coalesce because we need to beat the PNM. Beat the PNM and go there and then do what it is. This. It is shameful that established parties cannot, supporters cannot tell you what their party's position is on any, anything. What, what is the party, any opposition party's position on housing? For example, the people's partnership had gone in right now under the PNM. The PNM have a system, the lottery system, right, where literally a lottery to get a house. They went there for five years and kept it. Now I can tell you housing is a huge issue. We have a huge demand for housing in this country and the people and the people's partnerships stuck with that. I am telling you that is we do not agree with that.
The patriotic Front does not agree with the lottery system of given people housing but it should be on a needs basis.
We believe that. So that you should share out house initiative election for vote.
We don't believe in that. So if that's the thing that you're going to do, the answer is no. You simply put, put more police car and this that get serious. Crime is a serious issue. You have to sit down and speak properly. Who are your experts in criminology that, that are going to guide how we're going to solve this problem?
We do not have a, how are we dealing with people not being able to get beds in hospital medication? Why, why are these regional health authorities being managed in such a way where left hand don't know what right hand is doing? You talk coalition to the Patriotic Front. That's what you're going to have to talk about. You're going to tell me how we come together and how you're going to share out see to beat the PNM. To me, that is, that is so I can't even be, that's not thinking with any kind of depth. And then if you spend half of your time instead of working for the people, you're spending half your time cussing each other when you fall out. And how I like this one today and I don't like that one tomorrow. You genuinely think I have time for that?
Not at all. I have no time for that. I said specifically my brother and I will say it again, we will not engage in mudslinging and hooties more and who do that, but we will pull you up when you and everything that you failed this country in. So maybe that will get the front pages because that's what cell newspaper is.
But that's not the that I'm going.
[00:25:15] Speaker C: Well.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: It'S an approach that has been tried once before and I remember clearly in the early days of the Congress of the people that that was their approach as well.
Back in those days, I was with CNC three on the beat and I would be at these meetings and covering them and you couldn't help but, you know, compare the meetings and so on. And the approach of the Congress of the people is the very same thing that you're saying that this back and forth and who worse than the other and all that kind of thing. They tried very much to stay away from. Let's take a couple of your calls.
Try to keep them as brief as is possible. Hello. Good morning.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: Good morning.
[00:25:56] Speaker C: Sadish. Sadish. What I want to say to your guest, Mikayla, is that Michaela is young, she's vibrant, she's good looking, she's intelligent. Kamala is also intelligent. But Michaela should know that going her separate way would only take votes away from the UNC. It will never take votes away from the PNM. I mean, that's almost a fact. I mean, out of her goodness and she's a good person. Why can't she try to make a deal with Kamala? You know, somebody outside yourself, for instance, has to get these people together and work this out and Michaela has to be part of the UNC.
[00:26:40] Speaker A: Okay. Thank you so much for your call. You're basically going to start to repeat yourself there. But we've dealt with this extensively in the discussions that we've had previously about.
Exactly.
[00:26:53] Speaker B: Honestly, but I'm happy to say it, but Satish, I'm going to leave this one to you. Honestly, I, sometimes I believe, I don't know if people sometimes just don't. And good morning to you, sir, and thank you so much for your question. But if sometimes you just don't hear what you don't want to hear.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: And it's hard to accept the reality. So I leave it to you.
[00:27:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, we've spoken about it numerous times. You went into great detail. I think we spent the greater part of one program dealing with this very same thing. And you went on to explain the over choice that you've made numerous times and all of the things that you've done on your part. And you've, you put the question in the public domain at the foot of Kamala, Poseid, Sasa. And it's interesting how people just didn't resonate with that.
They didn't accept.
[00:27:43] Speaker B: They will not resonate with my brother. And I'll tell you why. Because, one, it's not what they want to hear, and it's hard to accept if they feel that this is the only way. So that's one. And two, I have stayed quiet for a very long time and have allowed the fraction of that party to push a narrative that was untrue.
And the reason why I did that, as I'd said 100 million times, is because I refuse to have a public tit for tat with the leader of the UNC. Oh, does that benefit? That benefits the P and M. Also, to say that you can never take PNM votes away is very, very politically unsound.
Two occasions, three occasions that that has been done where the PNM has actually, the PNM voter has actually showed that it is willing to move if you create a viable option to say that. And the words used by your caller was that would never take PNM voters away. And why do you think so?
PNM, very much like the UNC, have the core voters and there are some UNC voters you could never take away.
And I assume, you know, the column may sort of be one of those. But to go back into this over and over and over.
Like I said, I was going to leave it to you, but I sort of had to jump in. These statistics show differently. This is not how we feel or we feel that the PNM voter would not vote. You know how many of PNM voters were lost in the last election and the one before.
In fact, the prime minister, Seton Diego Martin is one of, I think many. And it's PNM speaker speaking about here as well. One of many where they both are turnout, where the people who did not vote was more than voted. Those people are there. Maybe what they mean, and this is what we need to start clarifying is what our dare caller means, is the UNC cannot take away the PNM voters. But that does not mean that the patriotic Front cannot. And therefore that takes us into a new dynamic where I am saying there is no seat in Trinidad and Tobago that is safe. The UNC seats may be safe from the PNM and the PNM seats may be safe from the UNC. None of them are safe from us.
And why not? PNM voters have been, have been and UNC voters and hardcore UNC voters as well. I'm not talking about the undecided people. I'm not talking about the floating vote as they say. I'm not talking even about the youth vote. We haven't even begun into them because those are people who sit and think with how is my country going to improve and how can I live a better life as opposed to following blindly. And they, even the core support is turning around and saying, listen, they cannot win. But as soon as you say you cannot win, the conversation goes, well, you know, why does Mikayla not do this and Mikaela not call Kamala? The only thing I could do is sneak into her house and I will climb through a window and go into our house. And when she sleep and wake up and say, kamala, kamala, Kamala, Kamala, listen, listen. This is what we want to do. If I spend my entire time and career in looking at and begging care for what needs to be done. This is the leader of a party. Why are her supporters not speaking to her? If this gentleman believes satish and he believes that the only way that we could win, and I'm smart and I'm this and I'm that and I have something to do. Tell me, tell me, why not speak to the leader of the party? Or is it that the supporters are unable to do so but speak to your leader? Where is the democracy the leader must have a constituency day where you can see in office. There is a, there's the leader of the opposition office on Charles street. Make an appointment. Go and speak to the leader and you are hearing it from me. Not a problem. We are willing to listen to what she has to and our group of people have to say, but I think at this moment they have other things to be worried about than the patriotic.
[00:32:21] Speaker A: Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave already. We are out of time. But there is so much more to discuss about this development, your party and everything else. Give us a time. Well, you know, we may not have time for a timeline, but we will have another discussion because there are some other things that I want to know, like the nomination process and the screening and all of these kinds of things.
So we will talk again. Definitely.
[00:32:44] Speaker B: Call me. Call me. I'll be here.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: I want to thank you for being with us here this morning.
[00:32:48] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you. Trendy Allen, Tobago.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: And that's how we end our interview with Michaela Pine, a political leader.
