Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're tuned into the all new freedom. 106.5. 106.5.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Once again, good morning Trinidad and Tobago. 26 minutes before the top of the hour of 8 o' clock and we have a gentleman, Mr. Tenier, in office with me this morning and we discussing the aggregate. He is the president, let me tell you very quickly, give you some insight and history. He is Nigel Tenier, the president of the Trinidad and Tobago Aggregate Producers Association. And I always wanted to talk to somebody on that to know because you always hear about this aggregate.
And of course sincere condolences to the family and friends of associates of businessman and quarry operator Danny Guerra. Now following the news of his past. Mr. Guerra was known within the quarrying and construction mineral sector as an entrepreneur involved in aggregate production and housing construction. Both within the industries, he played a critical role in supplying the materials required for national development, including the construction of roads, homes and other essential infrastructure across Trinidad and Tobago. The infamous Digi Homes, we are familiar with it.
Ella Vista Gardens, we are familiar. I myself on another frequency would have voiced commercials and ads for said company and was always amazed by the quality of work that that particular gentleman would push. And speaking with persons within the company, they often shared his enthusiasm to put the best.
That is who he was. He liked nice things and he won the best.
So even though it's not his personal space that he's going to dwell in, when he sells it to you or you buy it, he wants you to have the best on the market. And that is who Mr. Guerra was when it comes to business in Trinidad and Tobago and Quarry. No, I'm not advertising for DG homes in no stretch of the imagination. But we're dealing with the individual as a businessman, as an entrepreneur pioneering and making these things affordable for persons who never thought they could have had it. Live that dream. So good morning to you, Mr. Tania.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: Good morning.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: Welcome to freedom and thank you for staying with me and waiting.
[00:02:03] Speaker C: Definitely.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: I know you're coming. You're coming real early and you know.
[00:02:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I actually enjoyed the show, man. I enjoyed the show. I enjoy the, the interaction.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Well, hopefully we have you as a listener going forward now.
[00:02:12] Speaker C: Definitely, definitely, definitely.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: We real addictive, everybody. Yeah, he's bad talk, everybody. I mean, good speak them too, I realize. Yeah.
[00:02:21] Speaker C: So as we deal with the balance,
[00:02:22] Speaker B: of course this is what the rumble is about. We, we strike that balance. So as we deal with the situation, and of course, you know, on page five of our Guardian this morning, we have the whole situation here with the Guerra family, the contractors quizzed before Gara's death and things happening. Let's talk a little bit about aggregate in Trinidad and Tobago. What, what is this? This, this area of business?
[00:02:44] Speaker C: Definitely. So we represent the quarrying industry in Trinidad and Tobago. And yes, there has been a stigma attached to the industry, a stigma that in some instances is justified if we are to be completely honest, but in some instances as well has been misrepresented and misunderstood.
So we've got a situation where I think anyone who's following the story would be aware that from the time of the date of 2000 as far back as 26 years ago, we've not had a processing license for sand and gravel issued by the Ministry of Energy.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: Wait, back it up. Since 20 something years now. That's over two decades.
[00:03:34] Speaker C: Correct?
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Over two decades and a little over a little more than a half. So we're heading for a third decade.
[00:03:40] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: 26 years now.
[00:03:42] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: A proper license has not been granted for operators.
[00:03:46] Speaker C: Correct. For processing sand and gravel is important because there has been a release in the past from the Ministry that has tried to debunk that statement.
But what they've not said is that license have been issued for quarrying and processing limestone, not sand and gravel. And our specific area of concern was the issuance of processing license for sand and gravel that has not been issued in 26 years. Now, having said that, Davi, I think it's important to note that we have had discussions both off air, if I could say, quote unquote, with the Minister and face to face meetings arranged by the Ministry of Energy.
And those meetings have gone well.
I continue personally to communicate with the Minister offline.
And we feel certain at this juncture that the right steps are being taken by the Ministry and the Minister and the right.
How to put this boy, the relevant approvals will be issued shortly. We have every assurance that that would happen.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: The thing about it is, when we go back 26 years, you know, it, it begs to differ. So you are telling me within that time frame persons were operating illegal, essentially.
[00:05:16] Speaker C: And I'll tell you something. No, it is, it has born controversy when I said it. And people you know, have stopped me in the streets. Those who have my personal contact number have called me and said, well, how can you all be operating illegally? And I said, if, if you've built your home within the last, at that time, 25 years, my dear friend, you too would have participated in something illegal.
Because at the end of the day, there is no company, no entity, no individual who is Processing sand and gravel in Trinidad and Tobago that has a processing license at this point in time.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Are we talking about since Basdeopande was in power in 2000?
[00:06:00] Speaker C: That is correct.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: To the PNM, correct. To the UNC again, correct. Back to the PNM, correct. Now with the. And you saying from the.
I hope Trinidad and Tobago. I hope your ears are open and those of you that are streaming with us on Facebook are seeing and understanding what is taking place. We have police officers running up in these quarries arresting individuals.
[00:06:19] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: So without this granting of license, productivity in the constructance construction sector could have been grind to a halt.
[00:06:28] Speaker C: At one time, David, it was we as a, as an association, as a group, we had actually stopped and the large majority of operators had joined in with us. One or two elements that. That continued.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: So then why are we charging persons for illegal quarrying when government past and present have not seen it prudent to address these processing license issues where, where legitimate operators can go and extract the minerals within our. I mean we. This is not something that we shipping away. No, we actually using that product in Trinidad and Tobago. It's necessary for construction and government building buildings. Definitely using illegal aggregate.
[00:07:08] Speaker C: Definitely. That, that is the long and short of a DV because as I said, if there has not been the. The an operator is processing without his license, essentially he is operating illegally.
Essentially.
Now, as I said, it is indeed a controversial statement, but if we were to look at things in black and white dv then that is what we're faced with.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: Folks, you all hearing what this. Mr. Tenier, the president is saying.
So we have government construction taking place.
The recently, well, almost concluded Balize house, if you want to go for an example.
And with all these buildings, even HDC constructing homes.
[00:07:53] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: Taking aggregate because sand and gravel, these are not elements that you, you could just bypass and use something else. I want to make bread. I ain't going to use flour. I could use cassava flour. I could use something else. I could substitute sugar for sweetener for honey. This is a necessity. Sand and gravel is a necessity.
[00:08:14] Speaker C: Fundamental. So.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: So when you all sought some sort of clarity in terms of getting these license authenticated and proper and documented and what was said, we're talking within the last decade, within the last 10 years.
[00:08:32] Speaker C: What I can safely say is in all fairness and in all honesty, this was not an issue until the arrest. I want to state categorically of Mr. Brian Beachon, which happened approximately four years ago, once Mr. Beechan was arrested for the illegal processing of sand and gravel it then reared its head and presented a challenge to all of the operators because at that point in time, we all knew that Brian Bajan's scenario was exactly the same for everyone else.
So if he could be arrested for processing sand and gravel without a license, then what is the status of every other operator in the industry?
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Were you given an excuse? And listen, Pardon me, sir, we didn't have paper.
You see, we convolute things and I want to break it down so the man in the middle seat in a taxi right now listening, could understand what is happening in Trinidad and Tobago. Were you and the association ever given a voice, valid reason, And I say 10 years ago, none as to why we. No license were granted.
[00:09:50] Speaker C: None. And. And I'll go even further to help, to help advance that. That aspect of the conversation to see that we have members in our fold that have completed all the regulatory steps.
All have gone through the mec, the Mineral Acts Committee, which is part of the. The process, the approval process at the ministry.
And I've met all the requirements, but yet still there has been no communication forthcoming as to why those members have been unable to get the license.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: And this, let me be clear, this is not a UNC or a pnm.
[00:10:32] Speaker C: No, it's definitely not.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: Not talking. UNC didn't do it and the PNM did. We speaking in general because we talking.
Both parties held offices.
[00:10:43] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:10:44] Speaker B: During the last 26 years and none rectified the problem up to present.
[00:10:50] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: And no valid reason.
Now, were there shifting of the sand when government switched in terms of what was required to meet the threshold in order to be granted?
[00:11:01] Speaker C: No, that has remained consistent.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: So that has been consistent.
[00:11:05] Speaker C: Yes, that has remained consistent. Devi, I think, is important also to note that we have seen over that span of time that we reference, there is a keen interest on. On. On this administration of the ministry led by Dr. Rudal Munilal, to rectify the issue.
And I'll tell you why I say that.
Because he has been active in reaching out personally and he has also been active in instructing his team to make arrangements for meetings, to make arrangements to validate and verify some of the things that we've said both publicly and in the meeting that we've had with them.
And I know that because I can see the communications back and forth between my association and the ministry. So there is a keen interest, I believe, on this version of the Ministry of Energy to rectify it.
[00:12:06] Speaker B: Now, my thing about it is,
[00:12:10] Speaker D: I
[00:12:10] Speaker B: hope we have enough time to discuss it, because if we Don't. I don't know if I could steal you a bit in the next hour. Let me use that word loosely.
Boring.
But the thing about it is, if these operators.
Before I get to that part of the question, and as I said, I'm breaking down the science of it.
26 years, no bond has been granted. We have legitimate companies passing the act.
You know what is needed, Correct? Right. Above board, Everything legit. They continue and they apply. They should be granted this certificate. And before the 26 years, was there a time frame in which to operate? You had to renew the license, like a buyer license or.
[00:12:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: Subjected to renewal.
[00:12:51] Speaker C: Correct. And there were times it would span between five and 10 years, depending.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: So is government making a fool out of police officers, having them go up in these quarries arresting workers and management for these quarrying understanding that this is a necessity and that they themselves are guilty of soliciting stolen goods?
[00:13:11] Speaker C: You see, this is where the controversy is coming. And you see, when questions are like that, oppose. There is no, there is no, there's no gray area.
It's, it's plain.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: That's my point.
[00:13:21] Speaker C: So there is no license for processing San Antonio.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: So then we shouldn't be processing. None. So therefore we should.
[00:13:26] Speaker C: You watch, your activity essentially is illegal.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: So all hardwares in this country
[00:13:33] Speaker C: have
[00:13:33] Speaker B: received illegal goods from quarrying operators who supply these hardwares for construction purposes. So every. And I'm not talking about the private companies, let's talk government. Let's talk hdc. HDC have been erecting houses and selling right now in Mount Tope and other areas. HDC is putting up construction, buildings are building homes and apartments and townhouses are being erected.
[00:13:58] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:13:59] Speaker B: So our government, and I'm not speaking about the UNC or the pnm, please be guided accordingly. It is not a party. I'm just saying government, whoever is in power from 2000 to present, have been receiving goods, products from illegal operators in this country and then sending police to charge them, essentially.
[00:14:26] Speaker C: That's the long and short of it, Davy, because granted, the police has their rules to perform. They have their job to do in stopping crime.
But if there was ever a gray area in our society as it relates to criminal activity, then I would say this one would be it.
Because there are steps that are required before you acquire that processing license. So you've got to go through Tongan country. If it's private land, you've got to go through state, the commission of state lands. If it's government issued lands, you've got to go through ema.
To make sure that you. You meet all the regulatory.
As far as the environmental concerns. And you've also got to go through
[00:15:17] Speaker B: wasa, make sure there's no infrastructure underground.
[00:15:20] Speaker C: Correct. Not only that, if you, if you need water for the process, you need to have an extraction license and different things you need to get as far as that is concerned. Now, each one of our operators who have presented themselves or their companies for the approval of this license for sand and gravel processing, San and gravel have met this criteria, have gone through this process.
And what would happen is at this juncture in the past, you would be issued different letters from the different state agencies.
And once the. The Ministry of Energy saw that, they would tell you, you know what, go ahead, you know, and if the police were to stop you present in particular the. The EMA clearance.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: So you have EMA clearance.
[00:16:08] Speaker C: Yeah. And all the other regulatory clearances once you have those things in the past.
In the past, how far back? We are talking about as far back as 10 years ago.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Okay. But now that is not.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: No, that is not the case.
The police are coming to your premises and specifically asking, do you possess a license for processing sand and gravel?
[00:16:29] Speaker B: No, sir.
[00:16:30] Speaker C: If your answer is no, they proceed to enter a compound, make arrest, explain to you what the charge is and ask you to cease and desist operations of the implant.
[00:16:45] Speaker B: I want people to understand this very clearly when it comes to contracting laws in Trinidad and Tobago with illegal quarry.
The section 7C of act number 10 of 2021 is very clear amended to the State Lands act which include the new section 30A which reads as follows. 30A. A person who knowingly trades in or uses material which is dug, won or removed from state lands in contravention of this act is disqualified from engaging in construction projects funded by the government. What does that mean?
Additionally, act number 10 at section 8A2 also amended in Minerals act to increase the fine for any person who contravenes Section 45. 3 of the Minerals act from $500,000 and imprisonment for a term of five years to a fine of $1,000,000. 500,000 and imprisonment to a term of 15 years.
[00:17:48] Speaker C: That's correct.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: Now the word alike is the part knowingly.
Therefore, the updated section of 45. Three of the minerals act now reads as follows. A person who knowingly purchases any mineral.
Listen to this. From a person who is not the holder of a license under the act or trade in such mineral or knowingly makes a false statement or fraudulent representation. Let me go with the knowingly purchase.
Hardware is a purchasing.
[00:18:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: Government purchasing.
[00:18:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: So they knowingly forget the hardware. See hardware. I might open my hardware and I'm not aware that I am buying from Mr. Tenier and I'm using the name or Mr. Miguel. Let's call Mr. Miguel. Mr. Miguel. One Construction is bringing sand and gravel and I solicit them for business and ask them to bring in a two truckload for me. I don't know how this is waiting in my little hardware. I open up, I am buying illegal material.
That's what basically is happening. Essentially I'm buying this material illegally because they have no license to quarry, whether private or state. There's none. There's no because before you mentioned this little thing that used to give you EMA will give you that clearance when they run out of stickers.
The license. The, the people was giving a letter that is full up and you have in your glove compartment. So they stop you. Where's your sticker? I don't have a sticker, but I did.
[00:19:16] Speaker C: Clear.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: And I pass inspection. Correct. However, they didn't have sticker.
[00:19:19] Speaker C: Similarly.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: So you had that.
We do have people to print the license the game, but hold this letter to say that, you know, we have people to print the letter, but without people. Okay, okay, okay. You see what I'm going.
[00:19:31] Speaker C: Similarly. Similarly.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: Similarly.
[00:19:32] Speaker C: Similarly.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: So successive administrations of past and present. Well, you say present. Dr. Rudan Muninal is trying to rectify this problem.
[00:19:41] Speaker C: Yeah. And we say that we, we have a. We have, we've had dialogue both online, face to face and offline. I say offline because I know what you mean. Yeah, we, we communicate and yeah, there are times that he would reach out to us to inform us of. Of what is happening and you know, on the broader picture. And I, and I get that because it is in an attempt based on the span that this thing has been outstanding for is now 26 years.
It is to manage our expectations and our expectations have been managed. At the end of the day, Davey, one of the things that we wanted to do is. And we have achieved that highlight the. The plight of the industry, which is no license for the last 25 years. At that time now 26.
We achieved that to get the attention of the minister who is, who is responsible for rectifying. Remedying the situation.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: We have achieved that.
[00:20:33] Speaker C: We have achieved that.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: But what is a quick fix notice? A quick fix short term remedy?
[00:20:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Moratorium.
[00:20:41] Speaker B: Moratorium.
[00:20:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:42] Speaker B: As a short term, why we rectify the licensing issues.
[00:20:44] Speaker C: Correct. And the last meeting that we had, he actually agreed to that. He agreed to it and was so affirming it is that he told us that at our next press conference, please state that of the two, three things that was mentioned in our meeting, two was met with immediate approval.
[00:21:03] Speaker B: All right.
[00:21:04] Speaker C: So he committed to going away and seeing what his remit was in terms legal remit was in terms of what he could do and what he can't do. What can be done by his ministry as opposed to what has to be. Has to be done by cabinet.
And after that was done, we had the Christmas period, we had the Maduro situation in Venezuela and then he was off to India to secure some investments.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Some investments energy.
[00:21:33] Speaker C: And. And I could say all these things safely because we've been kept abreast as
[00:21:36] Speaker B: to what is taking place.
[00:21:37] Speaker E: Correct.
[00:21:38] Speaker C: And that's why I said both online and offline.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: So these companies that are now before police officers, they're investigating, asking them and we have at least four of them listed here. I don't know if you're familiar with Mutilal Ramhit and Sons, Skylon Construction, General Earth Movers Ltd. And VNV Contracting Co. Ltd. The police are now asking for times and dates as it relates to the Guerra Group of companies in terms of the quarrying. So that means Danny would have been quarrying illegally because we don't have a license.
[00:22:09] Speaker C: Now, as it relates to that aspect, Davy, that's an ongoing investigation that I would not want to prejudice.
No, my organization would want to prejudice those investigations. That's critical and very important not just to the national public, but to us that the police get to the bottom of that.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: They need to. Because I mean, when we look at what is taking place. And I'm glad that we spoke. Are these companies paying taxes by chances?
So all companies are. They're Green Levy Fund and all these things updated.
[00:22:40] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:22:42] Speaker B: And still successive administration passed. Did not see it necessary to address these quarrying up until now because I've heard past administrators saying that this illegal quarry must stop. Yes, aggregators must follow due process of law and they will be penalized. But yet still we're not doing what is necessary.
[00:23:02] Speaker C: Correct. So what happens now when you have people that want to follow the rule of law but are not being allowed the infrastructure or the process.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: All right, let's put up an. And we'll wrap it about 10 minutes after the news. Within the next 10 minutes or so, we'll get back to it. Well, not get back to. We just continue for briefly. We got to take that break.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: You're tuned into the all new Freedom Formal 6.5 Formal 6.5.
[00:23:29] Speaker B: Good morning again, Trinidad and Tobago. 10 minutes after 8 o'. Clock. I did promise to keep Mr. Tenier a little while longer with us as we close the interview and clear up some issues relating to the illegal quarrying in Trinidad and Tobago. One of the things I want to thank Mr. Tenier for very early, before I forget, is for coming out here braving all odds to share the insight as to what has been transpiring in our country for just under three decades.
All right. Because we're four years shy of three decades.
[00:24:02] Speaker C: Correct. And essentially a generation. Almost a generation.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Boy, this is almost a lifespan for some people.
[00:24:08] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: I mean, we extend condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of Mr.
Danny Guerra. I don't know, I, I know this is a very tragic, tragic moment to succumb to the criminal elements in Trinidad and Tobago as many other mothers would be crying out this morning. A mother on the 6 o' clock news in Laventille, crying, you know, so we see that the state of emergency, criminals are not even fearful because this was not a murder that took place behind a wall at 4:30 in the morning under the cloud of darkness.
[00:24:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:44] Speaker B: This was an office walking out and no doubt maybe traumatizing employees at that Sandy Grande branch office there. So condolences to the workers, the colleagues, friends, families, no doubt they would have lost a champion and a pioneer. And say what you want about Guerrero, he was an entrepreneur for sure.
A businessman at Spirit, tied up in this illegal quarrying business.
1. I mean, it's an ongoing investigation right now.
There was also an alleged plot, the papers have it this morning, by Asha Javil, where he was held under the previous state of emergency. So we're seeing the shroud of controversy clouding this individual. But I'm not here to discuss that.
I want in conclusion, for us to really talk about the necessities going forward.
What does the association hope to accomplish with Dr. Rudan Muninal and this administration in terms of getting some sort of success, substantive documentation so that the police wouldn't be harassing you all anymore.
[00:26:01] Speaker C: Yes, Davi. And to your listeners, we've asked for two critical elements to be granted to us.
In the first instance, we've asked Dr. Rudan Munilal to extend a moratorium to our members. We've asked for a two year moratorium.
And in between that time, as we operate in that legal framework, we've asked for two of our members to sit on a board that would be responsible for re engineering the process.
Well said.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: I like that.
[00:26:37] Speaker C: Let's take a callist. Yes.
[00:26:39] Speaker B: Put on those headphones there. Let's take a call. Hello. Good morning.
Good morning.
All right. I saw the call coming through but I was allowing him to wrap 625-2257 and 6273223. You can call and respectfully share your thoughts.
Didn't Mr. Pandey provide a temporary fix to the quarry license issue? Hello. Good morning.
Hello. Good morning.
[00:27:03] Speaker F: Morning, David.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: Good morning.
[00:27:05] Speaker F: The guest is stressing on sand and gravel relative to the no license.
Most of your questions will get at general quarrying. In the general quarrying, many offenses can be committed. Right. Right now, no.
So there's a disconnect in the whole interview. Thank you.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: Now you gotta understand if there's a licensing issue where the operators are perceived to be functioning illegally, the questions will be geared towards the illegal aspect of this.
Mr. Tenure can't tell me why successive administrations passed of the past have not do done due diligence and issued. There was a time when we didn't even have paper to print the birth certificate.
So I thought was a paper issue.
You understand? Good morning.
[00:28:06] Speaker G: Morning, David.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: Good morning to Obasa.
Your phone fell. Hello?
All right, call me back. 625,225,257 and 6273223. So if you want to query the line of questioning, please make your questions brief and to the point and respectfully as well. Hello? Good morning. Good morning.
Yes, Dorbasa.
[00:28:30] Speaker G: Yeah, I was moving the phone.
Well, I have been watching this mess in the foreign industry for a long, long time.
And I think that we ought to be ashamed that it's still going on.
The disconnect that I see in this interview and many others is that you're clearing things up for the guy in the middle.
That's just foolish because you sit where you get a seat when you're traveling. That guy in the middle was sometimes me.
And I just don't understand why you think the guy who's squeezed up in the middle there needs more explanation than anybody else.
[00:29:07] Speaker D: Thank you.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: You just have me scratching my head. You know, if I learned it individually, it is fly over your head sometimes. Boy, when I say the guy in the middle seat of the taxi, I'm not alluding that every middle seat taxi traveler is. Is beneath the academic qualifications to understand the language. But the general public in the public in general, the layman on the ground, you know, they may not understand it, the jargons and the terms in which we speak. So I prefer that we speak it in a language where they can benefit. Otherwise this interview would only benefit a select few.
And we are here for the man on the street because let us be honest and real.
I have never seen Mr. Tenure Walking the streets. He probably does in a short pants in Arima. I don't know to go to Mr. Tenier as others like the Marvin Gonzalez, even our dear honorable prime minister, our former prime minister they use roll on hunting you know Dana's used soap.
I want you to understand but do you see them perusing the shelves of our grocery stores to buy these products?
You may not but how they getting it? So you have to understand is the. Is the man on the street is we going and buying. We just go down the road and buy everything. And not all of us are academically inclined to mentally to.
[00:30:28] Speaker C: To.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: To digest some of the things that are being said. So I want it like gravel fine sand. Let me break.
Good morning. Do you have a question for my guests?
[00:30:39] Speaker E: Morning, Daisy. Morning, Mr. Willie.
[00:30:41] Speaker B: Good morning.
[00:30:41] Speaker C: Morning.
[00:30:42] Speaker E: Yeah but my listing a song where did it all begin and where it end. When did this not get an approvals to mine gravel and sun? Where did it begin and where. Where will it end? I mean what caused it suddenly that there are no approvals given to mine gravel and sun?
[00:31:07] Speaker H: What. What.
[00:31:08] Speaker E: I don't know if you could the beginning of that issue.
And. And well I guess you explained to you that you have faith that is it is going to end and how will it end and how.
What is the moving part for it and thank you very much.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: Come on my head caller.
[00:31:23] Speaker C: Let me just. Yeah, very good question.
It be. It began essentially and it's important to note this, it began essentially in the year 2000.
But it is not a case of licenses for quarrying. It is specifically a case for processing licenses of sand and gravel.
And that essentially began in 2000 and 20.
It is running to the to this date in 2026. But as I've said before, if you just joined the program, we feel certain that under this version of the Ministry of Energy with Dr. Rudan Molilal that it will come to a head. And I say that because we've had very fruitful conversations both face to face and I refer to it as online and offline conversations because we've continued to communicate after that meeting meeting.
He's indicated where his thoughts are, what his plans are and we too have indicated what our object, our objective, our objectives are. Sorry, and I'll repeat it. They're twofold. One, in the interim we would like to have a two year moratorium for all members.
And whilst that moratorium is in effect, we would like to have a voice at the table to re engineer the process to achieve this license for sand and gravel processing. Sand and gravel.
[00:32:50] Speaker E: So.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: Good morning.
[00:32:52] Speaker D: Morning. My brother Davy, I understand the problem that the quarrying or the mining sector has, but Davey, have you ever visited a sand pit?
No, no, I.
Well, I used to travel. My job.
There was a place called the Orange.
And even when that started and when it. I don't know if it continues now because I got out of it a while about 10, 20, 10 years maybe when I saw the hole, eventually, after about four years, the hole that was. This was a field of oranges, right.
And started mining sand. So there's oranges again. And when you saw the hole 200ft down in the ground, how are we filling that?
What it does to the environment?
Because there is no way to fill it back in. Odevi, you talking about people living around and 10ft from a bong or 15ft from a bunk, there's a whole 200ft in the ground.
And if it looks sharp and rain falls, it falls out water.
I don't buy in all the fellas. You know what I would like to know? How are we dealing with the environment after I don't pull out the sun and grab it. If I go Valencia.
[00:34:15] Speaker B: All right, all right.
[00:34:18] Speaker D: Well, landing.
[00:34:19] Speaker B: Well, you ask the question you want to know.
[00:34:21] Speaker D: Okay, yes.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: Got you.
[00:34:23] Speaker D: How are they dealing after they dig this replenishing.
[00:34:26] Speaker B: Ah, all right, good. So you want to know if the earth replenish itself.
What is the EMA? Because this is part of the environment. Yes, Mr. Tenier.
[00:34:35] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a very good question. And I'll tell you, it is the operator's duty to rehabilitate the space.
Now, in listening to the caller, I want to say this.
Not all areas that have material to be extracted should be extracted.
And I say that for two reasons. One, the impact to the environment might be more severe. So the benefits of extraction may not equal the negatives of the extraction. And so it is important that you get that EMA clearance.
[00:35:15] Speaker B: Benefits of extraction, I want, you see, may not equal the deficit.
[00:35:21] Speaker C: That deficit that it, it actually leaves behind.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: The negatives.
[00:35:24] Speaker C: Correct. And, and that, that is a consideration of ema.
So now you, you have, you have instances in particular in Valencia, I know of this space where he thought he's speaking about in the Orange years ago, but in particular in Valencia, you have squatters now mo moving into quarrying lands.
So That's a, that's a key thing that you must be cognizant of. You have to be mindful of this, that this land, these lands may have been designated for quarrying.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: So you moving into there, if any, whatever damages, whatever happens, you are illegally in a, in a space. You are in a space that you're not supposed to be.
[00:36:00] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: You can't, you're not supposed to have. There's no habitation there. You're not supposed to live there.
[00:36:04] Speaker C: Correct. But the long and short of it is the EMA plays a very crucial role in, in situations such as that one, where if they were to grant you the permit to proceed, the environmental clearance to proceed, there are things that you need to do as an operator to safeguard the environment as you go along with your extraction and upon completion of your extraction.
[00:36:31] Speaker B: So that simply means. And that lends credibility to why your license have to be renewed.
[00:36:35] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:36:35] Speaker B: So if you are found to be guilty of not rehabilitating the property or the area that you are extracting from, or if you seem to be breaching EMA rules, they tell you, no, not here, but you still go and you do it, then your license can be revoked. Correct. I like in that. Let's take a question quickly.
[00:36:55] Speaker I: David, good morning. So based on what your guess is saying is that the issue is with the processing license, but if the issue is with the processing license, then how are you getting the aggregates to process?
So isn't it that they are doing illegal courier.
[00:37:15] Speaker C: No, I.
[00:37:16] Speaker D: Go ahead.
[00:37:17] Speaker I: What's going to become of that?
[00:37:19] Speaker B: No, I don't know if you missed the earlier part of the conversation, but Mr. 10, you can go through.
[00:37:22] Speaker C: Yeah, so the. There is no issue with quarrying licenser and quarrying generally, when we say quarrying, what that specifically means has to do with the extraction of the material out of the ground, that is the actual raw material. The processing is where we take it through a different phase. And, and that phase allows it to be then utilized by you, the customer who's building a foundation, who's putting up blocks, who's plastering some using plastering sand.
[00:37:50] Speaker B: Right.
[00:37:50] Speaker C: That process is what we're referring to. So the actual quarrying and the license for quarrying extraction permits have been granted. So there's no issue there. The real issue here, caller, and what we, what we think we see in the light at the end of the tunnel with, is the processing license specifically for sand and gravel.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: So you have operator's license to quarry.
[00:38:14] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:38:16] Speaker B: But then when you're done, you have no. There is no way to process this material.
[00:38:20] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:38:21] Speaker B: So the processing aspect of it is where you're having challenges. You're refining.
[00:38:26] Speaker C: Yes, yes.
[00:38:27] Speaker B: Getting the red sand or the white
[00:38:29] Speaker C: sand or the three, eight or the
[00:38:31] Speaker B: three quarters and then gravel.
With these different levels of gravel. You have gravel.
[00:38:37] Speaker C: So what we generally use the term gravel, but there are different grades of the material. The material. So you've got three sharp sand, you've got sharp sand, you've got three quarter and. And then it depends on the grade. 2. Some are used for concrete and some are used for other purposes. But when we generally say gravel, that's what we refer to.
[00:38:54] Speaker B: Got you.
Good morning.
[00:38:57] Speaker H: Hi. Morning.
First thing, David, I guess is there a cost to acquiring the license for processing?
[00:39:03] Speaker C: Yes, there is a cost.
[00:39:05] Speaker H: So what is that cost, if you may? If I may ask?
[00:39:08] Speaker C: The costs may vary depending on if you're on state lands or private lands.
[00:39:12] Speaker H: Just get a ballpark cigar. Can I get a ballpark cigar?
[00:39:15] Speaker C: I wouldn't want to give that because a ballpark figure would be disingenuous to either one of the arms of the process. What I can see, please tell you, is that there is a cost to.
Yes, there is.
[00:39:26] Speaker H: Okay. So maybe that's one of the reasons.
[00:39:28] Speaker D: Right.
[00:39:28] Speaker H: And the other thing is that I want to ask you also, why did you encourage your association, encourage illegal operations in the country?
[00:39:36] Speaker C: No, my association.
[00:39:38] Speaker H: Hold on. Don't get me wrong.
[00:39:39] Speaker B: Right.
[00:39:39] Speaker H: I'm asking the question.
[00:39:40] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:39:40] Speaker H: Because you it's. I don't want to put it as baby put it. You are driving a motor vehicle without a license.
That is what you are doing now.
[00:39:48] Speaker G: Right.
[00:39:48] Speaker H: And your association has encouraged it for 26 years. Why didn't you all force the hand of the government by shutting down the industry for a couple of weeks when there's no aggregate on the market?
They would have to respond to you all. You continue and continue and continue for 26 years, keep asking and asking for a license, not getting it, but you continue driving.
That to me is wrong. And if that is what you are doing, I ask that you cease and desist kindly in the date of the country and let us get it right and hold it the minister or the government at ransom that we have no aggregate because we have no license. And there and then we can force a hand to do something because as I'm saying, you and the entire industry of processing are operating illegal at this time.
Thank you.
[00:40:37] Speaker B: All right. Thank you.
[00:40:38] Speaker C: Let me go. This caller, I love his enthusiasm, but he's not informed and I'll see why he's not informed. Because we did stop the industry.
That is what prompted the conversations between us and the minister.
Correct, because we halted the industry.
And then there was the controversial question of how we could stop something that illegal. And that was easy. We could stop something that illegal because it was something that occurred without any, how to put it by any ramifications.
It was almost understood that once you had the clearances from these four state organizations, and I'll repeat them, EMA for environmental clearance, WASA for the extraction and use of water, town and country. If you're on private lands or state lands or commissioner state lands if you want, if you're on what you call it, government lands, once you had these things, you were granted a pass, if I could use the term, and the police would see it and they would move on. That has since stopped. And it stopped, caller, three years ago, approximately. Well, four years this year. And it was at that juncture, caller, we formed the organization. And it was not 26 years ago. Prior to that, 26 years ago, what you would have heard of is the Quarrying association of turned on Tobago Quat. That has since been. They struck off the registry in 2017 or 2018, if memory serves me correct. And in 2022, the advent of tapa was born.
So again, to answer your question, we did exactly what you, what you're saying that we should have done. That was done in an attempt to bring the issue and force the key stakeholders to the table. We stopped. Now, having said that, not all of the operators in the industry stopped.
And having said that, to this date not all of the operators have restarted the operations.
Now that in itself is a decision for each operator, each businessman to make based on his ability to withstand the financial crunch that that would bring to bear on him, his family and also his employees.
And whichever key stakeholders he may be serving, whichever hardware he may be serving, whichever development in his area he might be serving, that is a decision for him to make. But I can safely tell you we have operators today day that are not operating because they do not have the processing license for San and gravel.
[00:43:09] Speaker B: Interesting. Good morning.
[00:43:11] Speaker D: Morning, David.
The gentleman is telling me, Davy, that I could go on mine, I could bring it and drop it in my yard, but I can't use my wash plant.
Your wash plant is what generates three eight, three quarters inch and a half sharp sand and then I convert that into gravel. So what the sense you're giving me the permit and all the approval and the wash plant approval to make the final Material. So when that gentleman who called it just now say that they're doing something illegal. Kusalin stop junior Sami ain't stopped.
And if them stop, we are not as foul for the road. For the same road we make a noise about we need fixing.
So before we talk we had to understand what happened here. So this is a small organization making noise on behalf of bigger ones. On behalf of you and I Davy, the average citizens. Because it's the first man I hear talk about we should be vitalized because everybody's been thinking about that. You know, a man who running a piece of illegal quarrying, when he got the one I need to go to, he had to dig out. That's the end of that. Who move in and decide to live if it fall long when them come to live on it.
[00:44:18] Speaker H: Thank you my brother.
[00:44:19] Speaker D: I hope they understand what it is you're trying to do. Enjoy it.
[00:44:22] Speaker C: Transfer and transfer for understanding. Likewise, not everyone is is. Is in the space of seek first understand and then to speak. But thank you.
[00:44:32] Speaker B: Caller 1 Texter is saying David, don't forget about the ravine Sable Londonville. Red sand mines that sung and. And was covered with water.
[00:44:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:42] Speaker B: With a water table.
[00:44:43] Speaker C: Yeah. That happened about five or six years ago.
[00:44:45] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:44:46] Speaker C: Yeah. And again and again. And that was an aspect of illegal quarrying. So whereas there are designated spots, spaces within that rapping Saab area, that particular spot, that particular site that was being mined was not a legal site.
And that's what we want as an organization, as an association, we want all the key players to abide by by the same rules. Because what happens is abiding by these rules is a Costa Davy.
So when you have somebody that's quarrying illegally or processing illegally, you are you taking shortcuts that we're not taking?
[00:45:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:27] Speaker C: So your cost is going to be different to ours.
[00:45:29] Speaker G: Yeah.
[00:45:29] Speaker C: And what we're saying is let there be granting of licenses and let these the different state agencies watch watch over for the industry.
[00:45:40] Speaker B: And. And just to allude to what you're saying about the course, if persons don't get it straight, taxi drivers may understand this one. You have a taxi stand, you have to pay to get your age.
[00:45:49] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:45:50] Speaker B: You gotta pay to get your H license, your badge, all these things. Correct. And then I come with my P car, I just have a Class 3 license. I pull up on the stand and ticking work from all you and bus it all.
[00:45:58] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:45:59] Speaker B: So I paying less and looking to make the same money all you're making and take work from you all it's similar with the quarrying and the, and the illegal quarrying.
[00:46:05] Speaker C: Because that's a very good analogy, right?
[00:46:07] Speaker B: The license quarry quarriers, they have to pay and go through these things and the illegal ones don't have to. So they, they subvert and they get away from costing that the illegal operators have to incur. So if you didn't get it, it's the same thing, you know. So we, that is why they must crack down on this illegal quarrying. But my concerns were that if we are licensed to aggregate, we could go for the minerals. I know, we could go for the materials. Then we. Why, why is it that we just don't have the license to wash the damn thing and get it going? Yeah, guys, I gotta leave it there. I promised. 10 minutes earlier engaged the man. The man was very excited to have the conversations, but he has other things to attend to. I thank all of you for the respect shown in the interview this morning. And we no doubt we'll speak with him again in the not too distant future. As this ongoing thing happens. I want to be a part of it. Well, to hear from him once. Dr. Rudan Munilal keeps the promise and actually assists. As he said, we see in light at the end of the tunnel.
[00:47:02] Speaker A: You're tuned into the all new freedom. 106.5. 106.5.
