Managing rouge police officers

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're tuned into the all New Freedom Formal 6.5. Formal 6.5. [00:00:06] Speaker B: Let me say good morning and welcome to Master Gary Griffith to the program this morning. Good morning to you, former police Commissioner Gary. Good morning. Are you hearing me? [00:00:18] Speaker A: I'm hearing me. [00:00:20] Speaker B: Yes, I'm hearing you. Good morning to you, Master Griffith. [00:00:22] Speaker A: Good morning, sir. [00:00:23] Speaker B: Good to have you on your program this morning. Lots have been happening and we seeing where finally our worst nightmares outside of the 1990 coup has been realized. A breach in a municipal police station. Now people say in municipal police, they want to treat it like them as security guards. Them is not real police. And I say police is police. And I want you to share some clarity between whether the difference with the SRPs, the TT, the regulars and the municipal police you were once at the head. Can you share some insight as to the difference between them? Are they real police or not? [00:01:00] Speaker A: Police is police. Good morning again. The unfortunate thing is that the municipal police, I mean all of these, all of these indirectly come under the umbrella or the authority of the Commissioner of Police. However, how it is structured based on municipal policing, they report directly to that relevant cooperation as it pertains to operations. So things as it pertains to training, equipment, technology, operation, patrols. The commissioner has very little if any involvement whatsoever. Sometimes you have a massive event in Woodford Square. The commissioner of police will put out 20 police officers. The mayor and the regional corporation or the corporation will put out 20 officers. And they didn't know. So there's no, there's not duplication of effort. So with all of that is why you notice the Commissioner of police was stuttering. He didn't even know how many weapons are there because he doesn't have that type of operational control to know exactly how many weapons are in these stations, in the municipal police Corp in those different stations. So there is a problem, which is why I stated that there needs to be an overhaul to give the Commissioner of Police some degree of authority as it pertains to training, psychometric testing, monitoring the performance, the operations, the security aspects of stations, of municipal police stations. It can't just be under the control of the cooperation. And the Commissioner of police does not have that type of authority to be involved. Having said that, it doesn't take away the fact trying to pinpoint who's municipal and who's regular in the eyes of the public. What they have seen. It is the first major breach of a law enforcement facility in 36 years. That is what the public is seeing. So persons trying to say, well hey, it's not really, it's not regular police. So it's not that bad. It is bad anytime criminal elements are. What is happening to the average citizen is they're saying that if it is that these people could break into a law enforcement facility and kill a law enforcement officer and take over 100 firearms. Imagine what they could do to my home. And that is where that public perception fear has kicked in probably at its highest at this time. [00:03:08] Speaker B: Your thoughts as it relates to the guns on the streets, Was it practical for they to take those things? [00:03:19] Speaker A: Well, it's definitely not practical. But again from a business perspective you're talking about close to over close to $750,000 in putting this out on the streets. Where it is that they're going to sell it to. They have seals to gangs. But it is a planned attempt for some type of situation to affect the country or for some or some deliberate plan why they wanted so many weapons. Whatever it is, it is frightening. It shows that there is a major concern. And thankfully the Transnebago police service, they have actually started kicking in by holding persons of interest retrieving some of these firearms. So it is a step in the right direction. What however, a point that I have to squeeze in here is that this again when this commissioner police every single comment is to find some excuse not to give legal firearms to law abiding citizens because he's so concerned. Remember he spoke about guns given out like nuts. Well guns given away like nuts now. So when it is he makes a stupid comment over and over about Gary Griffin giving away. In the 4,000 firearms that I give away, not one was lost, stolen or used for a crime. During my three year period we have 10 times more firearms that have been lost, stolen or negligent discharged by law enforcement officials than those issued to civilians. So when it is that persons like Rivera and others continue to demonize and trivialize or try to find excuses not to give firearms to law abiding citizens. All of the law abiding citizens who have fuls. When you combine all of the negligent discharges or weapons being lost, it comes up to 10 times less than those lost or using negligent discharge or stolen by in the hands of law enforcement officials. And this is not to criticize law enforcement officials. This happens. But don't demonize citizens when they when they need to get firearms because you're trying to find excuse. They actually did a video recently. Look, look, this person had a negligent discharge. Look, this person lost his firearm. You use two or three isolated situations in comparison to over 10,000 criminal matters that have taken place through the use of illegal firearms. [00:05:28] Speaker B: Gary, clear up some issues to me. One, in the issuance of a firearm, you, user's license. I spoke with Paul earlier this morning and I'm speaking to you. Do you, as a former police commissioner, do you see, do you have a problem or see any concerns with issuing one citizen with multiple fuls? [00:05:46] Speaker A: Not at all. And it shows Guevara. See when remember poor Guevara, poor guy. I remember he was middle management. He spent 26 or 27 years in special Branch. He does know better. So every time he opens his mouth, he has very little knowledge or experience in policing and I've been very blunt on it. If you stay, you spend 99% of your time in Special Branch doing undercover work and, and writing reports, you're not going to understand proper policing. So when his comments made, it shows his ignorance and even understanding about firearms. One, there, there are persons who may. If you are a firearm trainer, you will need a Glock, a Sig, a Sig, a Browng, a shotgun. You will need about 10 different firearms because you're a firearm trainer. So if it is that you sir, you want a Glock and for you to get a firearm you must go to a certified trainer and they are close to 100 odd certified trainers. Each one of them will probably need about 10 different firearms. It's not to say that I'm going for a driver's permit and because I have a Alexis I have to use Alexis. No, you have to have a different firearm for every single. The trainer must have all the different firearms based on the weapon that you select and then when. So you have to be trained in that firearm when you get the provisional and then you go to the firearm dealer to purchase that firearm. So trainers will, will need several firearms. Two, if it is that I am involved in sport, there are plenty people in competitive sport and you need over 10 different firearms because they are different firearms for different competitive events. Again, all of this is ignorance of Guerrero. [00:07:13] Speaker B: Wow. [00:07:14] Speaker A: If I'm, if I'm a businessman, I, and I have, I have 10 different branches throughout Trinidad and Tobago and I have, as a businessman, I have security officers who are now perceptive to Fuec as the business owner. I will probably have about 20 firearms under my book because I have 10 different stores and two armed persons in each store. So you look and say, hey boy, this man had 20 firearms. But it's being used by 20 different private security officers. Secure in mind. So when he makes this stupid statement, it shows his ignorance, it shows his desperation not to issue firearms to law abiding citizens. He keeps away the fact that before me he was in the police service for 24 years and there were over 50 odd persons with several firearms that were issued before under Steven Williams, Phil Booth and so forth. But he didn't have a problem then. He had a problem with Gary Griffith given doing such. And the persons he's speaking about is a handful of individuals. And what I says I did is to make sure anytime anybody has more than one firearm and they're asking for another. I need a full thing to justify why, because again, there is a concern that you don't want to give somebody six and seven and eight firearms just because they want it as a hobby. This is not the United States. But there would be specific circumstances, as I just spoke about, that he's ignorant of. And more importantly, all the things he spoke about, not one of these persons who had these several firearms ever lost it or use it for a crime. In fact, they actually did a video about the Ghani situation. Situation, thankfully, probably because he had more than one firearm, it allowed the wife to be able to get another firearm to protect and defend herself and her children. So there is a desperation, but there is justification for persons to have more than one firearm. [00:08:49] Speaker B: And I thank you for clearing that up. Just recently in the Guardian, the same Commissioner talked about one person having 12 firearms and what is the need for giving one person all these guns? And you know, we did a poll, we talked about it, but I'm very happy that you're able to clear up the reason, because you don't have to have a security firm, but if you are a licensed gun trainer and you are training persons, because you must be trained, you can have multiple, and that clears up the issue. Moving on from that, let me just [00:09:15] Speaker A: quickly add another very quick point to add. Almost everybody who has one firearm, they're asking for two. And the reason being, which is what I did not like, is because of the ignorance of the police, you use your weapon to protect your family. After somebody breaks into your home and you shoot that person correctly, they're seizing your weapon for years. [00:09:31] Speaker B: That's the point. [00:09:32] Speaker A: That is total stupidity. If I put an end to it within the first 48 hours, you could justify the person use his weapon in the right manner because you must seize the firearms, all firearms in any shooting incident, ballistic testing and so forth. But immediately, as you find out that the person used it to protect themselves, it should be returned. So People are now either fearful to fire their weapon knowing that it will be seized even if they use it in the right manner or they're asking for a second firearm in the anticipation that they will lose their first. [00:09:59] Speaker B: That's the point. And then they render defenseless. Paul Nahurs spoke to me. He talked about draft policies that he suggested some years ago that was ignored by administration. Did you come across any policy drafted by anyone to in tandem with your suggestion about returning persons firearm in a very timely manner, especially if it is. If they, if they did use it. And in fact, I mean your initial investigations will say okay, self defense and all ballistic records are there. So you do ballistics. This is the gun that that was used. [00:10:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:30] Speaker B: While the investigations are continuing, you have your firearm to protect yourself. But Paul said he did suggest these things in policies way before your time. Did you come across any of these policies? [00:10:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I did and I implemented it because Paul Nahus might have different political opinions. But Paul Nahuso is that guy really knows his stuff. It's good that you all interviewed. This is why I'm shocked. Sometimes you have individuals like Paul Nahuz and others who should be interviewed more by the media. But the media turns to criminologists. It's the only banana republic media in the world that the media turns to criminologists to speak about law enforcement. A criminologist has no knowledge, training, qualification or experience in law enforcement. But their thing is to understand the cause of crime. People like Paul Nahus will understand weapons and so forth and people like them should be interviewed much more. But we turn to criminologists because they love to talk even though they have no knowledge of law enforcement. So Paul is correct and that is exactly what I implemented. Within 72 hours, anybody who was involved in a shooting with your licensed firearm and it was used in the right manner, you read it's returned immediately. And there's a reason for that as well. Because you, you shoot a gang member who tried to break into your home. You guess what happens, the rest of the gang going to come after you. But yet but the police, you're seizing the weapon from the person for doing the right thing to protect yourself. And now you're defenseless. So that is what I changed that as soon as I left their country they went right back to the same thing. If you have shoot your fire replied we see season it for investigation and several years your weapon's still being held by the police. Paul Lacus, in fact I actually contracted him as commissioner of police to do a Massive overhaul. People may not be aware, he doesn't speak about it. Of the audit of the, of the firearms of the Transnebago police Service. That was never done before because we had concerns that police would have seized illegal firearms. And we were getting reports that they were. That rogue elements in the police service were issuing back to persons to use it out on the street and bring it back and have it secured in the vault. So we, Paul had to do a comprehensive check to see all the illegal weapons at workstations, to have them retrieved and brought for disposal or security at the training academy monitoring all the other police weapons, making sure that they were effective because many police officers are not. It wasn't mandatory for them to even fire a weapon. So Paul did have some place comprehensive audit of all the weapons in translation Police service. What happened after that? Nobody took it up. To continue to make sure that we can dispose of weapons, we can look at where the illegal weapons are. We can have systems to make sure that rogue police officers don't use these weapons to rent it out at night, to give it to a criminal, to bring it back in. [00:13:00] Speaker B: More than just renting it out. What about put planting it on someone that they want to, to see? [00:13:05] Speaker A: Correct. [00:13:06] Speaker B: You know, because we often wonder how does the. When the police find a cache of guns, four or five guns in a house, or they get a weapon on somebody and they take the weapon, these two guns in a car, they take it, what happens next? Is it stored at a station? Do we have a place where we can store these things? And because officers have access, they can always plant it on somebody. How are comprehensive documentation and registration of these weapons coming into the station matching with diaries and lock keeping and all these things? Outside of that I heard, I heard talks and I want to cover so much issues that are watching my time. I heard complaints by officers about manpower in stations at night. One police officer said to me yesterday unofficially that in certain stations you have cid, you have fraud squad, you have different persons throughout the night. So it difficult. But then there are some remote stations where you have three and four officers on a night shift. How factual is that? Did this exist under your tenure? Is this something that is common practice? Talk to us. [00:14:03] Speaker A: So let me just quickly add, I know you have other questions this way. I had a clash with Kid Rowley because of his total ignorance, because he was a backward individual not understanding law enforcement. He's pressured by people. Remember when he spoke about Blanchard Station, he said Gary Griffith shut down the Blanchard Station. And the reason for that station in four months there were two people who came in to make a report. In Blanchard station. People noticed longer come to stations or should not come to stations to make a report. This. That is why I introduced online reporting. That is why I introduced the gender based violence Unit. They come to your home, you call 999, we do a delivery service. The days of people I have somebody broken, I am, let's go to a station to make a report. I changed that. And the reason I'm stating that is that it's only now again a backward country that's especially these business chambers. Every time somebody steal a dynamite, you want to demand a set of a policeman post. We have more police stations in Trinidad and Tobago to secure 1.5 million people than New York that has police stations to secure 10 million on a daily basis. Because we believe that every single time you set up a police post it's going to reduce crime. It doesn't. It increases crime. Why? Because now the more police stations, meaning more police officers have to man these stations instead of them going out onto the streets. That's what Dwayne Gibbs was doing. That's what I was doing. And people are ignorant. And that's why when you have these isolated police stations, apart from you wasting manpower strength, it increases the vulnerability of these stations. Because now we make it easily susceptible to criminal elements targeting these stations. So this thing about setting up every single corner, putting up a police post, even in isolated areas, you don't what you need. Police stations do not respond to crime. And that is the problem we don't understand. I have a break in. I will call a station. No, you call 999. Police will respond to an operational command center that will then lays with a highway patrol unit, an operational team, a rapid response team. So my concept was always less police stations, more police officers out on the streets. [00:15:55] Speaker B: Indeed. So and so, so the, the, the, the, the situation with the limited officers in a police station in an isolated and remote part of the country like Manzan Mayaro. That is unfounded. [00:16:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it is, it is wrong because. But again it's the pressure that takes place by corporations, by chambers, by businessmen, by politicians. Because you know, politicians love to cut a ribbon, build a $40 million police station at every corner that really cost 10 million. And you know what happened with the 30 million. So that, that has always been, look, we cut in a ribbon to, to open a police station and politicians feel that is a big thing. It's only in a banana republic you get that you don't need police Stations. What you need is police vehicles, police patrols, foot patrols, rapid response unit, highway patrols. More police officers out in the street could only take place if you have less police stations. You as a citizen do not need a police station to secure you. What you need is a response. But we're setting up, as I said, we have over 110 police stations and New York and NYPD has about 90 something and they secure in 10 million people. That has been the problem. That could very well have been the situation here. Why do you have a municipal police station with 100 firearms with just a handful of persons in it? There should be an amalgamation. And with that, had that happened, it would have eliminated that. Let me quickly add, also add, by the cameras being cut off, you didn't have a national operations center to immediately monitor and trigger. Hey, something has gone wrong. Because you have the person in charge of the national operations center being a man who said, I know how to use a NOC because I used to use a walkie talkie to talk to my officers in the 1980s. I love John Abram, but he's a dinosaur. He doesn't understand. This is a $500 million system that has this type of technology that any camera that is shut off in any law enforcement institution, the LFC would have immediately picked it up and then sent an immediate response. They removed the national operations center, the operational command center, the rapid response unit, the emergency response patrol, GPS tracking on the vehicles, all of these things they removed. So it opened the product of opportunity for this situation to have taken place. [00:17:51] Speaker B: And that's a good point that you made there. I see my phone lines blazing, but I needed to get this interview out. Do you think the time. I love that national cent. Even if you have to have multiple, you know, to cover all. But you are correct. The moment that camera becomes blotted, somebody somewhere monitoring the system should have seen this and send patrol to check what is happening at that location. Now, these guns that the police is now saying that they're getting back. Why? Why is it that our commission of police is not in charge of all? Why are we all. Is it that the mayor is in control of the municipal police stations? I was told that they would use ttps, assistant police commissioner and inspectors to actually run these municipal police stations. But the commission of police is not in charge. I kind of confused. [00:18:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And that's why, as commissioner, I was concerned. Not the municipal police officers. These are good officers. Let's not knock the municipal police because of this. Isolate this situation that's taken Place. However, if. If it is that you have so many persons in law enforcement, the commissioner of police must have some degree of operational authority. He does not. He or she does not understand what it is that they are doing, where they're going. That's why the poor commissioner was just stuttering because he didn't even know how many weapons were there. I don't know. Even so, it has to change. Where there must be some umbrella that allows the commissioner. I need to know the type of training, the type of qualification for persons to be eligible, what type of regular training is being done to ensure that person is of good body and mind to remain as a police officer. What? Let me. I. I need to see your holding B. To know that the weapons are being properly secured. None of these things the commissioner has direct authority for. This is not in any way to try to. To palm off the commissioner to absorb responsibility. This is not about blaming. It has reached a point where you hear Philip Alexander blowing a trumpet and saying, is the greatest security this country has ever seen. People are laughing at him. Now is not the time for us to be posturing about who's at fault. People are actually writing about stating, well, this under the San Fernando Corporation, so is the PNM responsible? These stupid. That was not a time for us to be pointing fingers. Now is a time to find solutions. And again, if it is that the commissioner does not have some degree of authority and control, you're going to have a corporation like this that can operate on its own based on the CEO of the corporation or indirectly the mayor directing them. And the commissioner has no involvement if there's a major event, whether it's carnival or whatever. The commissioner has no involvement in the operational capability or direction of the municipal police. It is something that I think there should be some type of legislative change. People ask me, well, where are you, Commissioner? Why you didn't change it? Duh. That is legislative change that requires parliamentary amendment, not the commissioner of police. So this commissioner might very well agree with what I'm seeing, but he can't [00:20:47] Speaker B: do anything about it, you know, outside of that. I see the call is coming in. I'll take one or two. Respectfully, very quickly. 625, 2,257 and 6273223 if you all wish to get in. Good morning. Well said by the former commissioner of police, Gary Griffith. Hello. Good morning. Quickly and respectfully, please. Good morning. [00:21:09] Speaker C: Good morning, Mr. Davey. Good morning, Mr. Griffith. Princess Town. Mr. Griffith, I would like you to comment on my opinion that there Seems to be quite evident at this equilibrium in the intellectual capacity of our security services. Thank you, Princess Tom. [00:21:27] Speaker A: Well, you know, many people are knocking the Transligo police service, But I can assure you that all our police officers, when they travel abroad, when they go on courses, they're trained among the best in the world. These are the same police officers that public trust and confidence was 60% just a few years ago. 6,500, 7,000 the same officers. So let's not knock the police officers. Maybe there's been a change in policy and direction that has affected and stalled the transformation of the police service. But it can change. If it is that we get back to systems to measure their performance, make them accountable, People will start having trust in the police service. I believe that they are good. You're talking about body cameras that they've stopped using that we had. You're talking about GPS tracking on police vehicles to ensure they stay in the area of responsibility. You're speaking about a national operations center to make sure we monitor all different cameras and vehicles. If you put back these systems in place, it is going to reignite that public trust that is needed. So I would say let's not knock the police to the service. What. What is required. It's. These officers are very good officers. Dozens of them lost their lives during COVID for protecting this country. It is the most noble of all professions. Yes, they have shortcomings, but it is not because of the officers on the ground. It has to do with leadership and trans and accepting transformation. [00:22:39] Speaker B: All right. Hello. Quickly. Good morning. Good morning. All right. This person wanted me to play this for you. Gary. [00:22:47] Speaker D: Hi. [00:22:47] Speaker B: Morning. [00:22:47] Speaker D: Devi. You have Gary Griffith into the studio right now. For the last five years, my application, I have received a provisional. And because Gary, Mr. Gary Griffith name is on my provisional, I'm feeling that I am being victimized because every time I go is some different story. I have to wait. I have to wait. I have to wait. I don't know what it is going on in that firearm department, but it's not me alone. It's a few people who I met in the firearm department and they are going through the same thing. [00:23:38] Speaker B: Okay, Gary. [00:23:40] Speaker A: Okay, one minute. Let me quickly add this is because of the dinosaur type of policies that Rivero has. Same as Earl of Christopher, same as McDonald Jacob, same as Stephen Williams. Their philosophy is that they don't believe that you all should have firearms. They believe that when you all commit a crime or you lose it, they are going to be held responsible for issuing it. So they rather not give it out. So their concept is not to give firearms to law abiding citizens. They would usually be giving out 200 per annum. So let's say you have close to a commissioner, you know somebody. Well, you are not in that 200 because there are 30,000 application applicants. My concept, I gave out a thousand per annum which was just about five times more. But half of those were to law enforcement officers, past or present, to protect them and ensure that they will be protected when they, when they get home to their loved ones after serving their country and doing what is required that could cause enemies to take place with them. So the. It's not going to change. It is unfortunate, unfortunate that that is their philosophy. But what is sad is that they are writing their excuses is that there's no threat to your life. That is you cannot, Rivero cannot make a law unto yourself. There's nothing in the law that gives you the excuse to say I am not giving you the opportunity to have a firearm because there's a, there's no threat to your life. There's nothing in the law that says that. And that's what I was doing. I was adhering to the law. The law says if it is that you do all the requirements and we do a proper due diligence, you're entitled to it. He's not doing that. He had the audacity to say that I was giving out guns like, like nuts. Like nuts. We, we gave out 0.05% of firearms. I don't know what kind of nuts this man has. But.05%. And still as I said, not one loss was stolen or used for a crime because we had stringent measures in place during my watch. So that is not going to change. But what is more of concern is that this is in total contrast to the, the policy of the Kamala Prasad Bises, the government. She does a law to stand your ground. She's stating that people have a right to defend themselves. But you have a commissioner appointed who's saying basically woman, I don't care what you say, I am not giving out firearms. So unless it is changed to a committee, take it away from these dinosaur commissioners who do not want to give people the right to stand their ground and defend themselves. This problem will continue. [00:25:46] Speaker B: All right, let's hear this one. [00:25:48] Speaker E: David morning. If you could ask Gary, what about that GPS system on all police secrets? Why that system breakdown? Because that could help in crime and operation center see a vehicle close to the crime scene that could be dispatched. You could get on to Those people, although it's not an apb the they could also call that particular unit and tell them look something happened here, you know and respond quicker. A whole GPS system break down in the police service. [00:26:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean Gary, I wanted to question you on this one as well. There's so much information coming to mayor and I always love chatting with you getting this insight. There was a time when police vehicles there was one a scene in different jurisdictions under your tenure. Did you put a stop to this? Where there are certain vehicles assigned to an area and if that vehicle is now is in Princess Town when it's supposed to be in Maracas or in Port of Spain district but it's now in Prince's Town. Were there any red flags as to why is this vehicle there? Why are these officers or is it that police can go anywhere in China they want? [00:26:51] Speaker A: No they can't. And that is why Guevara McDonald Jacob and Ula Christopher totally dismantle everything that was done to prevent this from happening. We started realizing a police officer with a vehicle in Sandy will go to move out Diego Martin to transport drugs or to escort criminal elements. So the best way to ensure that police did not abuse the authority of vehicles. I put GPS tracking on all police vehicles. We had an operational command center, we had a national operations center. We were monitoring every single vehicle 24 7. So if and that is what assisted us and when we had 100 police vehicles in the Rapid Response Unit GPS tracking they stayed in the area of responsibility. So you picture 10 divisions in the police and you have 10 vehicles in each division say for of Spain with 10 vehicles all you're doing is to patrol. Anytime you have a 999 call we will look at the vehicle in closest proximity to that call and what any police service commission confirmed the vast majority of calls you were getting less than a five minute response. That is what put an end to home invasion. That's what put an end to extortion. That's what put an end to kidnapping. We had an immediate response. Additionally, that GPS also prevented police officers from abusing the authorities. So. So in the operations center we see a police vehicle going 80 miles an hour. 4pm on Rice Road on a Friday. You didn't go to a distress squad. We know that you're using a siren on your blue light just to beat the traffic. That is what has now recommenced. Everywhere you turn you're seeing a blue light and a siren in even unmarked vehicles. The authority is being totally abused because you turn on the Siren and the blue light. You're going over the speed limit. We could know that, you know, we could watch any monitoring of these speed of police vehicles to know if it is that you. That you are abusing your authority during that stink and dirty effect. We had dozens and dozens of police vehicles escorting vehicles because they were using their police vehicles to charge people to beat the traffic. Because all of these vehicles were leaving all over the country. And that is where it is that you are doing a pga, becoming taxi drivers and that also assists in transporting gang members, criminal elements, drug lords, weapons, child prostitution. We put an end to that by the GPS tracking. They removed the GPS tracking on the vehicles. They stopped monitoring the vehicles. They removed the rapid response unit, the emergency response unit, the body cameras. We had a real time that we were able to feed and see the thousand body cameras. They removed it. He found an excuse and he misled the country when he said these body cameras are not good. These were the same body cameras used by almost every major police department in the United States States. He then said that the body cameras could be turned on and turned off. He's so clueless. Because of him staying in Special Branch for 27 years, all body cameras must be turned on and turned off because you could have a situation of domestic violence, child abuse. A confidential informant wants to speak to you. And after five years here, they have not been able to implement one new body camera. So they do not want systems to measure performance and to make accountability when this happens. That is what brings on public trust and confidence. [00:29:44] Speaker B: I want to comment on what you said. 30 seconds, please. Good morning. You have a question. [00:29:47] Speaker C: Morning. To David Montana. I told you before that you had great support in relation to being appointed of the commissioner. I told you too that two of your problems would have been your mouth. And the other thing is that the question of your benchmarking your performance by murders. You had 537 under your watch, followed by Covid. Did you? I also noticed that you wanted to really do things that would have shaped the police office into a better place. There's no question about that. But what you needed was legislation and reform. Did you request that in your political space? And will that help with even with the supplemental or no change to estate police that what happened a station there, they fall under the whole issue, whole watch. What did you recommend in relation to that level of support you have needed from government in relation to your performance as commissioner of police? [00:30:32] Speaker B: Thank you. Now, before you answer, just before your answer, I have about three minutes. But just before you Answer add to this as well. Would police service reform assist together with what you're going to answer is not required. [00:30:47] Speaker A: We didn't transform to what he just said. Just for information. My last year's Commissioner of Police, August 1, 2020 to August 1, 2021, we had less than 350 murders. It was the lowest number of murders in 20 years in this country. And this was outside of a state of emergency that gave that. What happened last year, where you have a state of emergency gives you authority to arrest every criminal, drug lord, gang leader, shooter, assassin, criminal element, you incarcerate them so crime will go down. I didn't have that opportunity. The state of emergency during COVID did not give you that capability. In fact, during COVID every single city in the United States, New York, Detroit, Boston, Louisiana, crime actually went up. Crime went up in Jamaica, crime went up in Guyana because Covid doesn't stop crime. So I don't know if it is the criminals missed the memoir of the trainees who hate Gary Griffith or they had Covid. Crime actually went up because people, businesses were shutting down, domestic violence was increasing, people were losing their jobs, unemployment, inflation, increased crime. And I didn't have the SOE that allowed me to incarcerate people. So it was not based on the murder rate as well. It was also based on what we did to transform the police service. When I arrived, public trust in the police service was 14%. When I left, it was 60%. Now it is 8% because the things that we implemented. So there's no need for big set of legislative reform. What we did was utilize technology systems programs to transform the police service, make them accountable, measure their performance, and that is what was required. What Rivero Jacob and Ula Christopher did is to shut down, remove and dismantle every single unit asset technology system policy program that I implemented. And now we are paying the price. [00:32:19] Speaker B: Good morning. Gary Griffith is a man of action. One texter is also asking me, gary, would you consider coming back into public light if given the opportunity to be Commissioner of police or even Minister of National Security again? [00:32:34] Speaker A: Well, I've been there, done that. I have retired. What I can see is that I am more than willing to assist those in authority. I can assist and train them how to use the National Operations center here in Port Johnny Abraham. The poor guy, I think he's still using Betamax and vhs. [00:32:48] Speaker B: Oh gosh. [00:32:49] Speaker A: If you use it, if you use the, the NOC properly, you can try. The NOC is supposed to be used not just Roger Alexander or that's for the police? No. The NOC is to deal with the ODPM for natural and man made disasters, crowd control, major events, joint operations, joint intelligence gathering. It was recommended by the commission of inquiry into the coup. If I could assist to show them how to revamp and utilize the NOC and we can turn this around in two months. I cannot assist with Roger Alexander because in childish manner they have actually blocked me. Because they don't want to be criticized. They don't want to get constructive criticism. [00:33:21] Speaker B: You have said that. You have said that numerous times and I believe you. Sorry. I totally believe you. Now my last, last question real quick Time limited and I have some ads. Can a minister of national security walk onto a crime scene? [00:33:35] Speaker A: No, they should not. In fact the police service, the police complaint authority had to ask me for permission to do so and I gave them permission. But what is a minister doing on a crime scene? Or the minister can stay outside if there's an incident and you want to have that degree of, of leadership responsibility, you stay outside the lines. [00:33:55] Speaker B: The caution tape. [00:33:56] Speaker A: Yeah. You're not supposed to be getting in there. That jobs. No, but report. Remember this guy was middle management. His last 10 years was actually on a talk show. He does not really understand the concept of being a line minister and that has been the problem. As I said in the last year I would, I wish them the best. I am willing to help them, give them free advice. They have not been able to come up with one solution recommendation, policy unit. Nothing. There's a three point crime plan, State of emergency, state of emergency. And if that doesn't work, a state of emergency. So this will become a state of emergency country. [00:34:30] Speaker B: Last, last question. Yes or no. Would a curfew from 9pm to 4am that was my morning poll this morning. Would a curfew from 9pm to 4am assist with the reduction of murders in Trinidad and Tobago? [00:34:44] Speaker A: I don't think so. Because the sad thing about it is that if we have enemy within police officers the same thing would have happened in municipal police because they will still have access to be able to break the curfew to be outside during the curfew. So let's not press that panic button. I never believe that a state of emergency should be used as a crime fighting tool. Tool. The Prime Minister has to use it now because of the failure of the line minister and the commissioner to come up with any anti crime plan. So. But until that happens she has to use the soe. But curfew at this time is not required. [00:35:13] Speaker B: Thank you very much, former commissioner of police and minister. I mean, your designates are long, you understand. It's like a resume. You had to cut off some. And we had to take this hat or this hat. So, former commissioner of police, thank you so much for chatting with us this morning. It's always a pleasure to get you on the program. And we will talk in the not too distant future. Have a great day, buddy. Thank you. [00:35:32] Speaker A: You're tuned into the all new freedom 106.5. 106.5.