Proper gun safety/storage

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're tuned into the all new freedom 106.5. 106.5. [00:00:06] Speaker B: I do have an, an interview to be conducted this morning and we are about to chat now with Paul Daniel Nahus, law enforcement consultant, Firearms, the subject matter expert. Good morning to you Paul. It's good chat with you again. Good morning. [00:00:27] Speaker C: Good morning. You hear me clearly? [00:00:29] Speaker B: Hearing you loud and clear. [00:00:31] Speaker C: Thank you very much for having me. Again, apologies for not being in studio this morning. [00:00:35] Speaker B: That's okay, I understand, I understand. As we kick off our discussions this morning, a lot is surrounding the guns and ammunition that is currently on the streets in the hands of persons who we don't know the breach. I now hear a report that the vault supposed to have two keys by two persons in charge of the station and they both open it at the same time and. [00:01:03] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. [00:01:04] Speaker C: Very untrue, definitely untrue. [00:01:06] Speaker B: So share some insight or any that you may have pertaining to this issue. [00:01:12] Speaker C: I mean I have a lot of comments to make and it's a matter of where do I start with what went on. First of all, I really have to thank the powers that be in terms of their response to it. I mean this is being addressed in the most critical way, which it should be because it's a very serious situation. I mean you have basically, I'm not going to draw a distinction between TTPS and municipal police in this way that a police station was breached, attacked, you know, they were seeing something, it's an inside job, some armed I believe, and I'm mistaken, two officers are in custody as well as four others. A number of firearms and a quantity of ammunition is now in the hands of criminals which the police are trying to track down. And I don't really have any doubt that majority of that, those arms, ammunition at least the, the arms themselves, maybe not the ammunition, not all of it, but it's easy to, to get rid of the ammunition to pass off. But the, the arms themselves, I'm sure that most of them will be recovered just because of the kind of attention it's gotten and the manner of disposal of those arms in terms of how they would have to sell them or distribute them to the criminal element. It's bound to show up in areas where the police would have their informants, where gangs probably would not want that kind of heat on their gang because once that comes down on them, it hampers the other operations. So in terms of that type of robbery, while it was planned out in some kind of almost movie esque type of way, the practicality of this now is that the reality is that it's going to be a lot harder to move those arms than the persons probably thought. [00:03:03] Speaker B: And this is what I was getting and this is what I wanted to tell. I told somebody this morning on the radio. I said the persons involved in the underworld and these type of things, they don't want that. Those weapons, no, no, no, that's heat. That heat. They don't want that. That is interfering with their smooth operation in terms of their truck pedaling, whatever they're doing illegal and that unnecessary. So if one of these guys decide to go into the camp with ttps rungs and gun and stuff like that and they get out and the TTPS get a whisper that that inside it that's going to interfere the operations. [00:03:40] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I'll put it this way. It's very easy for the police once they have an any kind of idea of where it might be of any people affiliated or so remember this, the TTPS has a lot of intel, not necessarily evidence they have intel. And you can't charge somebody, convict somebody on intel. However, especially during this time with a state emergency, more than ever you can create an environment for gangs such as using preventive detention orders such the searches, the searches. You know, you could, you can actually, your police can actually search any person or conduct any kind of search if they suspect their arms and ammunition involved, if they have good reason to suspect that without warrant. So it's very simple that, all right, we have the intel, this intel, no problem. The block is locked down. The entire block is locked on. You can't, you can't push an onslaught marijuana on the corner. The block is locked down and that interferes with those gang operations. And some, some gangs, especially those who are operating, I don't want to under the radar, but in a manner which the police don't have reason to crack down on the whole gang or they're not going to pour those resources. When police, firearms become a factor in that, you're going to get a lockdown. They're going to put pressure on. And you know what, maybe not even on the gang that is quote unquote perpetrating it or has it, but here, what this area, everyone locked on until somebody speaks. [00:05:10] Speaker B: And that's the problem. That is why in my poll question I would believe that the police have the ability, resources, skills and know how to retrieve every single one of those guns. They can get it done. Most they can. [00:05:23] Speaker C: And they've gotten 30 something already. [00:05:25] Speaker B: I am hearing it was 6062 to begin with. And then I'm. I got a report unconfirmed, I think it was confirmed. It's over 100 guns. [00:05:35] Speaker C: I, I got on my end, it's been unconfirmed. I'm waiting for that type of confirmation. But it, it could be, it could possibly be and I, I expect most of them to be retrieved because as we be discussing that, that is. That's a difficult product to move a police up. A police gun may not be a hard thing to move. 100 police guns is a. Is very hard to move and gangs are going to be on the lookout because the, all of the weapons will be marked ttmps standing for Trinidad Tobago Municipal Police Service. They'll have a mark on it. [00:06:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:04] Speaker B: And not only that, it made me wonder if they were trying to. If these guns had some kind of linked to trafficking overseas, maybe to take it overseas, put it in a period, get it out of the country, I don't know. And then harder sell even, right. And then speaking with an officer, a car called names. But I spoke to an officer yesterday who shared a slightly different approach on it. He said, davy, I'm being real with you, you can't call my name. But I telling you, I am of the impression when we look at certain things that this was done because some big boy or some police somewhere else in some other jurisdiction trying to cover up something and needed to get something to cover something. So I don't know. I said, but even if that narrative makes sense to what you telling me yesterday afternoon, why kill the woman if it is you just came there to get the arms and ammunition, why kill the police woman? [00:07:01] Speaker C: I would ask this in terms of covering up another. When he said another jurisdiction, he meant locally. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Locally, maybe, yeah. [00:07:08] Speaker C: Again, all of those, all of those guns marked, all them have ballistics on them. It's, it's nobody wrong. [00:07:15] Speaker B: The wrongs. Maybe we could. The wrong. [00:07:17] Speaker C: Okay, so the wrongs. Now I cannot confirm whether or not the Transbago Municipal Police in that, in that station, whether the wrongs were marked or not. I can't confirm that. And it's a matter, well, you know, if things were being stolen to cover up or so again the arms may. I don't know if it was greedy, but the arms would bring a kind of heat that just doesn't make sense. And you're talking about even shipping it somewhere away. If you're talking about that, you're talking about transit costs because crime is a. Crime is a business. So to put to see that it's a High profile heist. You're putting it, you're taking it somewhere else. I just don't see it feasible financially [00:07:56] Speaker B: to do that and I understand that. I have a call coming through. Hello. Good morning. [00:08:00] Speaker D: If you want to get my opinion I believe something bigger already was going to happen and I believe them guns before that Sunday Guyfield certain guns was not counted for when you really check and balance and that woman with a talk that doubt VPC was going to talk and call him. I believe that's my opinion. Hold it down. [00:08:25] Speaker B: The thing about it. Go ahead, Paul. [00:08:28] Speaker C: I would say this can't rule it out. I mean we don't. They don't have evidence as to that. But what the gentleman said is not something that you could necessarily rule out. You, you know, it's a lot of speculative stuff. He would have said something that is. There's no information confirming that. But there's a lot of possibilities and you can't rule out any possibilities right now because there's such a lack of evidence as to what really took place. [00:08:54] Speaker B: The thing about it is that I see it as simple as senseless, baseless, useless. As you said, it's difficult and no criminal enterprise wants that heat. Paul, in me talking to certain persons I was even reliably informed that if some. Let's say you remember they used to have a police vehicle parked up by the tree. If you're going up the bus street heading east by Success Laventille school day. [00:09:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:24] Speaker B: They would have a static what they call a static. Sometimes even. Yeah. Sometimes even by the. Beat them by the. By the gas station all in higher up. They will have a static. [00:09:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:33] Speaker B: And they would. And that static will have two officers in the vehicle at any point. Point in time. Right. And I'm thinking they like sitting ducks. If Batman and criminals so dread out here why not run up to the police blazed up the tail take the weapon and blaze out because they're sending a message and somebody said to me they can't do that. They would not do that. Reason being, reason being. They go on the beat on there and they do that. You remember police have intel and. And some allegiance and alignment. I don't want to use other legions but they have some kind of. They know criminals, they know persons and when the ground started shake and the bad man in the area. Paul hear what going on. You see that shopping is. You do. You got to take the faith they will belch you out and burp you out to the police and let you know you have to. Or they kill Everybody in your family, you didn't want that. So you had to go and sit down in the prison. They got something for you, but you're taking the heat. They're giving up somebody. Somebody in the group had to go because of that stupid thing that took place. And they don't want the enterprise. So the stealing of these weapons and taking it away. I mean, before you. I have a next question to ask you, but let me air this call quickly. Good morning. [00:10:47] Speaker E: Morning, Daisy. [00:10:50] Speaker A: Who in charge are the keys to open the boat? [00:10:53] Speaker E: You can actually guess that? [00:10:54] Speaker B: Well, I was hoping. Okay. I think that was a question I wanted to ask. [00:10:59] Speaker C: Sure. [00:10:59] Speaker B: The next. [00:11:01] Speaker C: But default in the vault in there. [00:11:03] Speaker B: All the. [00:11:03] Speaker C: Well, the strong room. Right. [00:11:04] Speaker B: Or the strong room for the armory. [00:11:06] Speaker C: Yeah, whatever. Yeah, whatever term you want to use. Fit. You know, usually the. So the head would have. Would probably have a key fit, but the person who is issuing the firearms or keep up the whatever whoever is assigned to. To as a custodian of that property on that shift would have keys to access it. So there will be keys in there. Because you don't know the situation in terms of. First of all, there has to be the handover of firearms. And the person who receives the key in the morning has to go through the. Go through the logs and make sure things are accounted for. And they have to issue the firearms also to. In the event there's some type of emergency and officers are called out or so they have to be able to access and issue those firearms quickly. There would be a key assigned to the senior officer on duty at that. At that time. [00:11:53] Speaker B: But it's not a situation like a bank vault where two persons have a key and both all that are pushing together. Right. [00:11:59] Speaker C: Look, David, look, let me read about this. Right. And I'm saying this straight out because not enough to compromise anything, but when I was working for ttps, one of my assigned roles was to inspect their armories and order their armies across the entire country. And I would have seen everything from somebody. Some incredibly secure vaults and doors to a regular wooden door with a. With a key on it or a padlock on it. I would have seen everything in terms of that. So now the San Fernando, I've never checked their vaults. I don't know exactly how they have it stored, but at the same time there has to be accessed it by the officer on duty and somebody is responsible on shift for the keys. Usually it will be either more senior person or somebody assigned it specifically. [00:12:48] Speaker B: Wow, this is incredible. Good morning. Hello. Good morning. All right. Six, two, five two two five seven. Let me check the WhatsApp because a lot of persons trying to get in this morning and share their thoughts. [00:12:59] Speaker F: Morning, Davey. Davey, I, I read an article in the Wall Street Journal yesterday and I think it's still in the newspaper today. [00:13:05] Speaker B: Paul, you. [00:13:06] Speaker F: There's a new gang and it's not really a new gang. They've been around for a while now and it's called the PCC gang and they originated in Brazil and they've grown now. They're the largest transnational drug cartel in the world. And what they're doing is they're not like the drug cartels of Mexico or Colombia. These guys are cocaine militias. They don't have flashy cars or flashy clothes. They don't have big houses. They, they infiltrate foreign governments. They, they can have connections with the police, with real estate developers. [00:13:46] Speaker C: Okay. [00:13:47] Speaker B: I thought you had a question. I was waiting for the question, but. Hello. Good morning. It's just a comment. Good morning. [00:13:52] Speaker A: Good morning, Davy. Quickly morning to Mr. Nahoof. I think that it is early days yet in the investigation, but from what the commissioner of police revealed yesterday, I am looking at this, that there's a possibility that this may have been a crime of passion and perhaps the guns removed in order to cover up what exactly had taken place. If it is true that colleagues of the woman corporal were involved in this, then whatever happened may have not started on Saturday night. It may have started quite some time ago and it's possible, so that guns may have been walking out of there for quite some time and all sorts of things may be happening. I think that there has to be a thorough investigation on this matter to know exactly what took place. And we have to look very carefully as to how we recruit and train even municipal police officers because I don't think they go through the same rigors with at, at sending barracks as the other police officers do. So all of these things have to be taken into consideration. Recruit, train, consistent testing and all of that, because these are persons armed with guns walking on the road. I listen to your comments. [00:15:16] Speaker B: You talk about training, recruitment. [00:15:19] Speaker C: So first, first, first of all, I don't want to go into conspiracy theory. No one is going to. I will say this. It's very unlikely that somebody is going to seal the entire armory for a crime of passion to cover, cover that of that because it was a highly coordinated effort. [00:15:35] Speaker E: Right? [00:15:35] Speaker C: It was a very highly coordinated effort. [00:15:38] Speaker B: That. [00:15:38] Speaker C: And as a matter of fact, it's more than like, it's more likely that the murder occurred as a byproduct of the robbery than the other way around. That's, that's 1, 2. I do agree entirely that the municipal police as well as the ttps, this is not just municipal police. Their money is to be looked at. Some of the training as well as the monitoring and such afterwards. There needs to be some type of reform in that. The municipal police do go through a lot of training. They are trained by some of the same officers that train the ttps and they have their own training. I would say they have their own training school for that and they do a very good job of treating them. It's not that they're undertrained, that is not the issue. However, I do think recruitment and monitoring are still very, very important and areas that need to be improved upon. [00:16:25] Speaker B: You know, the thing about it is I remember was chatting with someone on that recruitment people talk about. I don't believe the TTPS will go on bringing corrupt individuals. They normally put out pictures in the public on the papers and they investigate, they investigate. So persons come into the police service, persons come into the armed forces, the ttdf, the coast guard and all these things. As I say, bright eyed and bushy tail, they come in there and they're normal. But somewhere along the lines, as I was speaking to officers yesterday, they get demoral, they feel a sense of demoralization, they don't feel a sense of will to continue the job. Their salaries isn't the best and most attractive in the world. And you know, outside of that I [00:17:11] Speaker C: can't comment on that because several persons that over the course of my career that I know personally would have come and could have recommended would have come and I would have done recommendations for them for ttps, for ttdf, for different organizations. And I'm telling you that I was each person I have recommended. I don't think I've ever recommended someone. I didn't receive a call from a police officer identifying themselves and saying that they're an investigator assigned to ask some questions. And some would ask 10 questions, some would keep on the phone for half hour asking about the person, about how I know them, about how they grew up, different things and to see, to see also too if I actually know the person and you know, I appreciate that level of, of in depth investigation especially for ctps. [00:17:52] Speaker B: Thank you for sharing that. [00:17:53] Speaker C: But I would say I agree with you entirely that somewhere along the line sometimes officers become despondent, some things happen, sometimes they've seen corruption, they can't do anything about it and that's it, you know, it Ends up as a. Monitoring is important. [00:18:06] Speaker B: No, not only that. This is what I was also reliably informed when I asked about. I told the person, I said heavy conversation because they are very avid listeners. Some of the police officers are listening to this program. They want to talk but they can't talk because they're not authorized to speak on behalf of the ttps. And that shows. [00:18:24] Speaker C: Yeah, no, but that shows you that some of them are free to talk because of what they see going on inside. So that shows that these good officers are being constrained in the service. [00:18:31] Speaker B: Listen. And the man said. He said also Davey, while you're talking about I heard you yesterday mention about police service reform. Police reform. And there was this guy who's called every morning. He said what about judge judicial reform? He said Davey, I held a boy in school uniform. He said I went into a school to check on a sibling that the teacher called me. I went in there and while in the school, you know they don't always wear the police uniform so they have like tees with the police logo. But he said while he's in the school treating what I matter with the teacher he's noticing a student a little uneasy because another officer was around and you know everybody just watching here walking his cool just watching the children. And he said this one person stood out to him in the corner of his eye. But he an alarming the student. He said when he go to approach the studio and the student play walking like to the block or something and drop the bag, drop a small bag. He pick up the bag and grab the student identify himself as a police officer and searching the contents of the bag he found 16 packets of compressed marijuana 16 on the school compound and a knife stuck in the boy's waist. He said I can't put handcuffs on him. I have to get an un uniformed police officer to come and deal with it. I have to get an unmarked police car to come in to deal with it. I cannot use. He said I He said Davey, I tick all the boxes. [00:19:57] Speaker C: You have to contact an agency in police. There's a long list. [00:20:01] Speaker B: He said he would went through it. They held the gen. They held the young boy in some support you something he called it where you could arrest them on there but you had to put them right. Yeah, some area is not right. He talked about that and he also [00:20:15] Speaker C: you can't put them with prisoners. With prisoners. There's rules with children. [00:20:18] Speaker B: So it's a long winded process. He right went to court thing. He said Davey and within a week a Few days, maybe two or three days after he went through all of that. Buy the book, he said, buy the book. That child is in school worse than he left him. And now he's in the school, back in school with a pip on his shoulder because there's a rank to get arrested. And he's now getting reports that the child is even worse in his behavior, his mannerism, as opposed to when he was held with the 16 packet of marijuana. He said that court case is still going on. So the child is, the 16 year old is released as the court case, he's on bail, case going on and he's reoffending continuously. He said when we as police officers whole are criminal, they are more rights than us. And he said when a police go through all of that and then we put evidence and we might forget one little thing, a smart lawyer coming in the judiciary, bam. We get tossed out, we get the case dismissed or the person held, they said the police incompetent. He said, we have so much of a burden to get everything correct. And when we see we jump down in our drain, nearly twist my ankle to hold our man and then he get bail, going back and reoffending. How are you feeling to go and run down them criminals, boy? [00:21:40] Speaker C: So judicial reform, some of it has begun to take place. It needs to take place in a very big way. And one thing they have to have provisions for, make provisions for is that while we understand the, the whole concept and the laws regarding children, the thing is a lot of children are committing adult offenses knowing that their children, their maturity level is not that of your average 14 year old, 13 year old, it's not. They have an adult criminal mindset and it needs to be reformed to deal with the adult criminal mindset and actions of children. So for example, if you just take it to another extreme and go to a country where they are taking child soldiers from 12, 13 years old, you have someone with a rifle shooting and killing people. Exactly. It's a different mentality. And in Trinidad, gangs are actively grabbing these young fellas because he pushing there. You think where he getting our marijuana? You think he growing up in his house? [00:22:41] Speaker B: He ain't growing up. Tell her. [00:22:42] Speaker D: Good morning, Davy. A pleasant good morning once more. [00:22:44] Speaker B: David, quickly. [00:22:44] Speaker D: Yeah. When I said earlier that the two senior officers have the keys and they go together, I spoke about Chagonas Borough Corpor. That's how it's done. So if anybody want to rebut that up to yesterday and before I made this statement this morning, I verify that with a Police corporal, a woman corporal from Shogunas municipal. And the thing is that what I'm hearing here is amazing. So there are no checks and balances when the handing over takes place and so on. I find that very, very strange. But I. [00:23:16] Speaker B: No, no, Karini Central. There are checks and balances. I, I very often at every handover [00:23:22] Speaker E: because I didn't hear that. [00:23:24] Speaker C: I worked in the police service doing that. [00:23:26] Speaker D: Then it should have been identified before that guns were missing. Or is it that all went one time? [00:23:31] Speaker B: All went one time. [00:23:34] Speaker D: Very interesting. [00:23:35] Speaker C: That's it. [00:23:35] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks. Good morning. Hello. [00:23:40] Speaker E: Good morning, Mr. Davey. [00:23:42] Speaker B: Good morning, Princess. [00:23:43] Speaker E: And to your guests, Princess Tong. Good morning listeners. Mr. Devi. First of all, the Prime Minister, when she made her comment about Trinidad and Tobago being lawless and she was under a lot of pressure and so on, I think she must feel a sense of exoneration now. And it is something for us to take note of. Mr. David, this problem. Yes, we are all alarmed and all excited and so on about the municipal in San Fernando. But this is a problem Mr. Davy had been brewing in Trinidad and Tobago for years. Now I have to go back to Dr. Morgan job. [00:24:21] Speaker B: Could you make the point quickly please? Princess Tong, the time is going. You have a question for our guests. [00:24:25] Speaker E: I would like to just ask your guest if he thinks that this matter is beyond constables and Corporal. There is some big fish in this matter we need to get not at the bottom but at the top of it. Okay, thank you. [00:24:38] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:24:39] Speaker C: I, I, I don't, I don't, I. This does not seem like any kind of big fishing. Honestly. This seems like some, some fellas at a lower level got a bright idea that they, well, sorry, an idea they thought was bright, then realized it wasn't bright. And now they're going to have to realize how unbright it really was. I, I would, I would say as well. I don't think the Prime Minister feels exonerated. I think she feels very concerned about what's going on. And this has been. I agreed, yes. It's been a problem for years brewing. I've spoken about it. I've been my, this is my second and I'm telling you from a security perspective, from a borough perspective, now that you know it's a pro, it's an issue. The municipalities needs a type of reform and I'm not going to give out any information or compromise security. But the Diego Martin Borough. The mayor spoke with the ASP of police by us and I have it. I am very reliably, reliably Informed that additional measures along with the TTPS have been taken to make sure they go Martin Borough Corporation Firearms ammunition are fully secured and guarded at all times by an adequate force course. [00:25:40] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:25:40] Speaker C: So. [00:25:40] Speaker B: Hello. Good morning. [00:25:42] Speaker D: When the second balance. Here's the thing. When the check and balance is going on, this is on camera. This inventory stop taking on is it on camera. And how they could say the arm always went. One time it already gone. Nobody knew how much gone. [00:25:59] Speaker B: All right. [00:26:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:01] Speaker B: I mean let me tell you something. It's like a security handover. When I come in to take up duty, you have to tell me. You have to write everything in your diary initiation diary about in the book in the armory what you have accepted for the army. Yeah. [00:26:17] Speaker C: And not one officer alone. The officers have to check it. And every month. [00:26:21] Speaker E: Yeah. [00:26:21] Speaker C: It's supposed to be audited and return sent back and such. [00:26:24] Speaker B: That's right. So every handover shift I. I have a. Another police brethren. And it works in the armory. [00:26:29] Speaker C: Let's just say. Let's just say weapons. Weapons were going over time. [00:26:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:33] Speaker C: Let's just say that how the police were armed in San Fernando because the police have to be actively armed. They have a reserve of weapons. But the police have to. It's the police San Fernando City Corporation. The city corporations have a much higher manpower. Now manpower is a massive issue with municipal police and that needs to be addressed. But these city corporations tend to have a high level of manpower compared to anywhere else in terms of municipal policing. [00:26:54] Speaker B: That's good. My final question to you as we wrap the interview this morning. Recently we had a murder that took place, a domestic murder where one person wife took the life of another in self defense after a six hour ordeal of domestic terror allegedly in a house. Now persons were saying on the program that why should a husband and wife both have a firearm, a licensed firearm. And I wanted to know from you, [00:27:22] Speaker C: from your learned position, I didn't realize her husband and wife become Siamese twins and are always together. [00:27:28] Speaker B: Thank you. That's one. [00:27:29] Speaker C: And are always together. [00:27:31] Speaker B: Right. And, and, and what about one person owning multiple. Having multiple firearm users license like two or three guns? [00:27:39] Speaker C: Well in terms of the multiple guns, nothing is wrong with that. They have different guns for different purposes. Some are better suited for home defense. Some are better suited for carry depending on if you're wearing a suit, if you're in a jersey. Some people are competitive shooters as well who have their carry gun, have their competition weapons. Some people hunt as well. So they have their gun for safety and then they have their Gun that you take to hunt. There's a lot of different reasons and if somebody's capable of securing a weapon, they're capable of securing. Securing more more than one weapon. So for you know when there's a, there's a concern about that was all states about well dangerously safety public. Somebody has five, six guns. What's it, you know someone could break in and steal it and is it dangerously public? If it's reasonably secure it's not a problem. As we see 100 guns that were missing from a police station. Right. [00:28:24] Speaker B: Yep, yep. Well said. So with that being said, I mean how long does it take when an incident happens? Now I know it's subjected to the circumstances surrounding the incident but when you have one firearm, one user's license and you, you defend yourself one time with this gun, doesn't the police take away [00:28:41] Speaker C: the gun in majority of the time there's a, there's a level of discretion by ttps however so the pedal division can have. You can allow it to keep the weapon. The police very often take it. Criminals know this as well. And that's another reason for having more than one gun too. And it's not just unique to Trinidad in other jurisdictions and the states. I mean it's easier to get a gun in the states as a solicitor, it's all right. And in the US for example the same thing happens a lot of times where the police will take the gun. I don't think it's entirely necessary and I have written a policy regarding that years ago that wasn't implemented whereby it's not necessary because you have the ballistics if you have the person saying that yes, I shot this person in self defense, I discharged this weapon. The ballistics match. Take a picture of the gun, take a picture of the license and if anything further, if there's no further reason for investigation into homicide and your rules are self defense, I don't see any reason the person's weapon should be taken. [00:29:35] Speaker B: Yeah, because you render the person defenseless when they have a paid their money and applied for this weapon especially business persons and whoever that's an additional threat. That's an additional threat. So that's a reason and I think we need to look at. Paul, I need to speak with you beyond the radio. I'll probably give you a call later on this afternoon and I thank you very much for chatting with me very early this morning. I know you have your coffee yet? I had mine earlier so make sure and get a coffee call. [00:30:02] Speaker C: He called and realized that and he was. He was a little dangerously close to I don't hear and I don't hear [00:30:08] Speaker B: it, but we control it. So thank you so much, Paul, for chatting with me this morning. And we will be in touch. I have your number. I'll give you a call. Thank you again so much. [00:30:15] Speaker C: Have a great again. [00:30:16] Speaker B: Yeah, man. Bye. [00:30:17] Speaker A: Take care. [00:30:18] Speaker C: You're tuned into the all new Freedom 107 6.5 funnel 6.5.