MSJ OUT OF ELECTIONS RACE.

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, Accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5. [00:00:09] Speaker B: We have an interesting interview for you all. Let's welcome to our program MSJ political leader David Abdullah. Good morning to you, Mr. Abdullah, and welcome to our show. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Morning. Morning, Satish. Happy New Year. Our best wishes for the New Year to you and all who are tuned in to Freedom RA Radio 106.5 this morning. Same to you and thanks for having me. [00:00:31] Speaker B: It's nice to have you this morning. Pretty interesting announcement by the MSJ that they're sitting out the 2025 general elections. A number of issues therein. But let's get from you the reason behind this decision. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Yeah, but before that, let me say we made two announcements yesterday. Obviously the one the media has run with was the announcement that we are not going to be contesting the general elections. But the other announcement we made, which was very important, is that we have identified and we introduced to the country via the media conference yesterday, three spokespersons for the MSJ on specific subject areas. This is the first time that we have done that. You know, most times I am the one who speaks on multiple issues. But we now have Ms. Avion Drayton Bailey, who is herself a very highly qualified nurse, first vice president of the Trinidad and Tobago National Nurses Association. She lectures in health issues at University of Trinidad in Tobago and she's going to be our spokesperson on health. We have Mr. Davilan Sinanan, recently retired principal of the Palo Seko Government Secondary School, former president of the Trinidad and Tobago Unified Teachers association, and he will be speaking about and working with us on education matters. And a young attorney, Mr. Runako Gregg. He's been practicing actually here in Trinidad and Tobago and in Ontario, Canada, over the last decade or so. And he will speak on public law matters, constitutional, civil, human rights matters, things like that. So this is, this is a indication of the growth and development of the msj. We will be announcing other spokespersons in the coming weeks, but this is an important start. As we said yesterday, we are really focusing on building the MSJ into a strong party that can challenge, make a serious challenge for government. And challenging for government is not an easy thing given the culture of the politics of Trinidad and Tobago, which culture has been one of ethnic politics as well as money in politics. And to make a serious challenge, we have to build a strong party. We haven't consistently done that. We have done it in spurts. We really want to focus on building the party and the elections would have taken away somewhat from that. Process of party building. And therefore we decided that we would not be contesting the 2025 elections. [00:03:09] Speaker B: This is going to be viewed by various people in various ways. The MSJ has been around for some time. And the MSJ was part of the People's partnership coalition in 2010. Correct. And since then contested, I think, one or two of the local government elections. [00:03:34] Speaker A: We left in 2012, and we contested in a limited way, 2013, 16, 19 and 23 local government elections. So we've contested every local government elections, but in limited ways. In 2019, we actually contested in about five regional corporations. Diego Martin, Sauer, Laventille San Fernando City Corporation, Siparia Regional Corporation, Point 14 Borough Corporation. So 2019 was our biggest foray, if you wish, in terms of candidates and spread in local government elections. And then we contested five seats in the 2020 general elections. [00:04:10] Speaker B: So it's interesting the emphasis that the MSJ is, is placing on strengthening itself, because in the local political landscape, when you throw your hat into the ring, there are certain expectations. People expect you to do certain things. They expect you to hold public meetings. They expect you to contest elections and all these kinds of things. The MSG has not done much of that. When it comes to the usual events like that. Political parties have. I cannot remember. [00:04:48] Speaker A: Well, I. Well, I digress. You know, I want to differ, okay, I beg to differ. For example, after the 2020 general elections, you know, we were in COVID lockdown and we started, I think it was in September of that year, elections was in August, what we call Tuesday talk with the msg. And we have been running Tuesday talk every single Tuesday with the exception of a few Tuesdays that might, you know, like Christmas, New Year's and close to Carnival and so on. So, you know, if we. If we have done 40 something close to 50 programs a year, in 20, in 2020. One, two, three, four, you know, that's 200 Tuesday talks. And we have had many, many different issues addressed. And we share the Tuesday talk with the media. Some media houses carry some of what we have discussed on Tuesday talk, some don't. That's part of the cause. We don't complain. We continue to do what we have to do. And we share that information with a very large number of people who read it or listen to it, as the case may be. So we do that. And so we have consistently had, if not public meetings or in schools and so on, because that takes other kinds of resources which we don't have. But we have had more weekly activities as a political party than any Other political party in the country, the unc. Their month to night meetings has not run consistently from 2020 to now. Sometimes they have a gap and so on. Of course, UNC has more resources than us. The PNM hardly has public meetings or cottage meetings. Last year we had three or four what we call citizens assemblies. We had one in Presal, we had one in Point Fortin, one in Laventille and one in Pitti Valley. And we have done other things as well. We have campaigns, but our campaigns, because the politics, one of the things that people tend to associate politics with is elections, right, or engagement in the parliament or government and so on. But politics is also really the pursuit of one's interest, the struggling for one's interest, fighting for your interest. And what we have done is to engage in a number of campaigns. We have an ongoing campaign to educate workers who are not in unions about their rights. So we have gone into stores downtown, Port of Spain, San Fernando, parts of Chaguanas, Arima and so on. Samoa, Nkwezi, giving out pamphlets. We have given out thousands of pamphlets to workers in those business places and they're very appreciative of that. We provided them with information about their rights as a worker under the existing legislation. And you know, we say, we say we're doing this. We're not a trade union. We do as a political party, we say who we are and so on. And the workers are very happy to receive it and call our hotline numbers to get advice about problems that they have at the workplace. We did a minor campaign on the TNTEC rate increase and so on. But we have spoken out and had press conferences on a regular, regular basis, as you know, on a variety of issues. So we have been very active as a political party in the public space, but we have not done after the 2020 general elections and because of COVID we really wanted after the local government election of 2019, having contested seats like Picton and, and Saint Barbes and so on in Laventille and places, other parts, Barataria and many other parts of Samo Laventille, we really wanted to consolidate that work by going back into the communities and having cottage meetings and so on. But Covid came in March of 2020 and that frustrated that effort and we really haven't been able to get back to those kinds of activities. But we've been very active. I want to suggest that we've been very active given our resources. [00:08:54] Speaker B: Yeah, the activism is, I'm assuming, appreciated, and the activism goes a long way in ensuring that the Party's message gets to people. Through your activism, you spread as well who the MSJ is and what you're about and all those kinds of things. But the overall goal is to get into office. That has to be the overall goal. What can the public expect from the MSJ? Because sitting on the 2025 elections, you've given your reasons as to why the MSJ has taken this, but when can we expect to see the MSJ taking. I mean, I think it's a legitimate question because you've been around for a long period of time. You were part of the coalition that went into office, swept into office in 2010 and we all know what transpired since then. You've sat. You personally, I think you sat on a government committee as well. [00:09:53] Speaker A: I was a senator from 2010 to 2012 until we left. And in the Senate of course, I sat on two of the parliamentary committees in 2015 after the PNM won the 2015. A member of the Economic Development Advisory Board, which was a non political board, is a professional body. Persons like Dr. Terence Farrell, Dr. Marlee Nats, Dr. Ronald Ramkissoon, Professor Carl Theodore and others were members of that board together with myself. That was pro. We did that work pro bono. It was not a paid board and we offered whatever advice that we could and we were doing work around diversification of the economy fundamentally. But then Dr. Farrell resigned and. And then I did and then the board collapsed. So that has been. I also was a member of what is popularly known as the Lashley Committee, the committee that looked at the restructuring of Petrotrain, which committee did not recommend the closure of Petrotrain. So I sat as a member of that committee nominated by the Oilfield Workers Trade Union because the union was asked to nominate two representatives to that body and that again was completely pro bono public service that I was was doing. Those are the only official responsibilities that I've had since 20 2010. [00:11:17] Speaker B: Yeah, so. So what can the public expect from the MSJ when it comes to seeing the MSJ in the corridors of power? [00:11:26] Speaker A: Right. So we are going to not be quiet because these elections that we're not contesting doesn't mean to say that we're going to sit down and do nothing. We are going to be very active in this period. We had a very good activ meeting on Monday evening that approved the decision not to contest, otherwise we would not have made that announcement yesterday. The three spokespersons had been approved at our activist meeting on the 15th of December so we would have had something to say Yesterday, if our activists had said no, we want to contest. So we are going to be very active. We shared part of our work plan with the activists on Monday evening. We didn't have a lot of time to discuss it because it was a very, a very important discussion that we had around the elections and our strategy at this time. And the activists were virtually unanimous in the position that we should not contest. So we're going to be very active on the ground. We will be continuing our campaign around workers rights. There are one or two other campaigns on issues that affect citizens that we are going to launch shortly. When we launch it, we do it in the full glare of the media and the public. We do it on the streets because we believe that power really lies in the streets of Trinidad and Tobago. So we are going to be very active and there will be other interventions that we will make with respect to the elections, but closer to the election date. We haven't fully worked that out or decided. But in politics, timing is everything in politics. And so we will be making other interventions with respect to the elections closer to the election date. And we will just be focusing a number of key strategic things that we are going to be working on in the coming months and couple of years. Building out our membership because that is an area that has been neglected. So building our membership, strengthening the party structures in the areas and regions. We will be doing a lot of consciousness raising publicly because we think that the country needs what I call a revolution of the mind. If we are to break free of the politics of race and religion and geography and money and so on. We need as well to ramp up our communication. So like our choose a talk which is extremely strong and valuable in terms of information. Not everybody is prepared, particularly younger people going to listen to a program that goes on for an hour, 45 minutes, they want three minutes sound bites. You know, you must be very appreciative of that. So we have to have the resources to do that. We need to have sustainable, transparent financing. That is one of the things that we will be demanding that this Parliament passes the draft. Well, the bill that has been before it for the last four years dealing with campaign finance reform. That bill is known as the Representation of the people Amendment Bill 2020, I think it is, or 2021. We submitted very detailed comments on that bill to the Joint Select Committee of Parliament and it's been sitting in the Joint Select Committee of Parliament doing nothing. Because neither the PNM nor the UNC want to have legislation that makes campaign and party financing transparent. They don't want to know who the financiers are because in our system, the financiers invest money in the parties and then when party A or party B wins, they then get a return on their investment by getting contracts and so on. And many of the financiers have one party card, PIP party in power. So they finance both, you know, so that has to be broken if. Because money then is determining democracy. You see, in the United States perhaps is an extreme example where you have billionaires like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and others and so on who are going to be running the show and not Trump, you know. And here in Trinidad and Tobago, money is beginning more and more to determine the democratic process and that is wrong. So we are going to embark on a process of sustainable, transparent financing. And there are a number of other things that we have work on and that will strengthen us a strong msg. And you know, Satish, you mentioned that we've been around for some time. We were prematurely born in 2010. Right. We had registered the party in April of 20, but it was our intention to do work to build the party and make it known publicly between 2010, well, 2009, which is when we started to meet and decided on the name of the party for the 2012 general elections. But Mr. Manning called elections early. So we jumped into the mix of the partnership, made an important contribution to the partnership. I want to say that. But quite apart from that, it meant that we didn't have a time to build. And then when we left the partnership, we are the only political party that has survived 12, going on 13 years now out of any position in the state apparatus. So we have no persons in parliament, no persons in local government and so on. And, but all the other parties that you know, have not had government positions or local government positions, they disappear right after the election, you know, and I'm pretty certain that after 2025 elections, a number of the so called third parties are going to disappear. Yes, but the MSJ will still be around. [00:17:05] Speaker B: And I. Well, that's. That is to the credit of the MSJ that they've been able to not just survive, but to ensure that their voice remains on the national landscape. I mean, the MSJ still commands significant media coverage. And that's to your credit. When you have a press conference on a Sunday or whatever it is, you get coverage in the news and newspapers and everything else. So it says a lot. You spoke about the challenges that the MSG identified that factored into the decision not to contest the 2025 general elections. The catchphrase now we're in is alliance and amalgamation and people coming together and all those kinds of things. Was that not an option, rather than sitting it out? I mean, the UNC calling for everybody to come and join, and you have Gary Griffith and you have a number of other people coming together. Was that something that the MSJ considered at all as an option rather than sitting it out? [00:18:11] Speaker A: Yeah, we looked at all the options. You know, we examined everything very carefully, and we decided, you know, that it would be better for us to focus on building the party rather than trying to, you know, make it into parliament somehow, you know, in an arrangement that would become problematic or maybe an arrangement that is not realistic either. So we decided that we would sit it out, but we looked at all the options. One of the important things about the msc, and thanks, Satish, for your kind comments about us commanding significant media. And that is true, I think, because we have been relevant in what we're saying. In other words, if we had a press conference and we spoke nonsense every Sunday morning, you guys wouldn't report on it. Right? Or there'll be purely memes about what we said, you know, and we certainly don't engage in the kind of gutter politics that has come to characterize some people in politics in Trinidad and Tobago, because we don't think that that helps to elevate people's consciousness. And conscious people is a powerful people. I really want a powerful people. And nor do we make wild statements, you know, like, I know, controversial. The prime minister went with a statement in Parliament about police stations being locked up and in darkness because they're afraid of criminals and so on. You know, those statements are wild statements. They're not called for, they're not necessary. So we don't engage in that kind of statement. But what we do believe is important is that there is what. Because politics in Trinidad and Tobago is not. Not generally around policies and ideology, if you wish, or philosophy. We think it's necessary to have a political party like the MSJ which has a clear philosophical position. That's one of the reasons why we have stayed alive, why we have, you know, activists who are committed to the party and so on, because of our philosophy of social justice, of challenging the status quo, of wanting to bring about fundamental change in the relations of economic and social and political power so that we don't have an economic system that has come down from colonial days, which is being perpetuated today, where a few people live an obscenely wealthy lifestyle. And others, not a small amount, live extremely comfortably. And then a large number in the middle barely make it from payday to payday. You know, have to go to the credit union, get a loan to survive and so on. And then there's another large section in the society who are scrunting, who are suffering, who can't have money every day to put food on the table for themselves and their family and so on. That's the type of economic structure we have to change that. But to change that we have to challenge the relations of economic power. We have to challenge the relations of political power where decision making is concentrated in the hands of the cabinet, really the Prime Minister, where people are locked out of decision making. So we have to bring about changes there as well. And social relations too. The whole issue of gender based violence and so on, those things have to be tackled in a fundamental way. Discrimination with education where 50% of our children don't pass SCA, 50% of the children writing CSEC don't get five subjects at the first shot. That's a discriminatory education system, it's an elitist education system. So we have to challenge that, our healthcare system where if you have a lot of money, you have the best health care. If you don't have money, then you have to, you know, take your luck in the public hospitals and so on. So we have a philosophical position, we have policies that flow from that philosophical position. And we think it's necessary to maintain, not that we think we are better than anybody else or that we are pure or anything, I don't want to suggest that, but we think it's necessary to maintain our voice of fighting for social justice, challenging status quo in this period. And so if we had gone into alliances and coalitions, that element of progressive politics, what I want to call progressive politics, could have been, I wouldn't say compromise, but we would have had to go with the flow with others on issues. And we think in this period we need to have our voice out there and win over more people as members. I know there are people who have said, you know, they're disappointed because who are they going to vote for? So to those who are disappointed, we will provide some guidance later on about, you know, about this political situation, elections. But if you're disappointed because MSG is not contesting your Eric, join us, join us and help to build the party so next time around we can contest and challenge seriously for government in this country. [00:23:09] Speaker B: Let's take a couple calls. So if you're joining the conversation midway, we're speaking with political leader of the msj. That's David Abdullah. Let's see who's with us. Hello, good morning. [00:23:18] Speaker C: Hello. Pleasant morning to you, Mr. Abdullah. Pleasant morning to you, you and your party members. All right, so we're looking basically Abdul 20 election, basically and that we have any disturbance and we had a call election before so. [00:23:34] Speaker A: Correct. [00:23:34] Speaker C: I want to listen to you and one thing I admire you always updated issues in the country. So let us. So we look into the question basically looking at 2030, basically plus or minus, all things being equal. I'll listen off your right. [00:23:48] Speaker A: Yes, correct caller. And you're correct to say it's 2013 or earlier because you could never tell if we get an early election. But there's also of course, the 2027 local government elections. Local government term of office now is every four years. The last one was last, sorry, not last year, 2023. And so the next one will be 2027. So yes, we have a couple of years to build towards that and I look forward to, you know, many people joining us in this, in this process. [00:24:14] Speaker B: Let's see if we have another call. 625-2257. Hello, good morning. [00:24:21] Speaker D: Good morning. [00:24:22] Speaker A: Good morning. [00:24:22] Speaker D: Mr. Abdullah, greetings to you. [00:24:24] Speaker A: Morning and respect. [00:24:26] Speaker D: Mr. Abdullah, I agree that you don't have to be in power to influence decisions in the country and policies and so on. There's enough evidence to substantiate that. But the question I want to ask you is you are part of the partnership. You hearing me? [00:24:44] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. [00:24:47] Speaker D: Can you give us quickly, what was the reason the call for the disintegration of the partnership? I mean the partnership was a very good concept and so on and people had so much high expectations and hope in the partnership and then all of a sudden everything gets disintegrated. A clear and honest explanation as to why. Thank you. [00:25:13] Speaker A: Thanks. Thanks. Wallow. At the time, in 2010, sorry, 2012, I made three major statements. The first one was an indication that we were concerned as MSJ about the direction of the partnership, that we were not fulfilling the manifesto commitments and the ideals of the Faisalbad Declaration. And I said that in three months time we would make an assessment. And at the end I did make a major statement saying, putting out the reasons why we, we decided to leave now. So essentially it was around the failure of the partnership to implement the fundamental commitments that we made. Labor legislation, reform, constitution reform, changes in governance arrangements and so on. Those are three, if you wish, major issues. Because we joined the partnership, because we thought it was possible to move the ball down the field, which is an American football expression, but to advance the process of change in Trinidad and Tobago, and particularly with 29 seats in the house and with major overwhelming public support, people across the country, you're right, had high expectations for the partnership. And we failed to deliver on that. And that is one of the fundamental reasons. The other thing is that the partnership did not work as a coalition of political parties. In 2011, there was all day session of all the members of parliament of the partnership. And coming out of that, the prime minister asked the chairpersons of the partnership to meet and I was asked to convene that and to come up with a plan for ensuring that the partnership worked as a coalition of parties. And we did that work. Myself, Jacqueline represented the unc, Joseph Tony the cop, Iogoro Ome represented njac and Stanley Baird, the Tobago Organization of the People top. And we did a lot of work. We met and I drafted the report. We agreed on it. And the leaders, we submitted actually to the leaders on the first anniversary of the part of the signing of the Faisal bar Declaration in April 2011. I myself was present and I gave it to the Prime Minister at that time and to the other leaders. And quite honestly, the leaders of the partnership never met to discuss that report. And in spite of the best efforts, and when I indicated that we may be leaving, we tried to have discussions around it. And those discussions, quite honestly, never, never significant, never materialize in any significant way. So unfortunately, it was a coalition government in which the UNC was the dominant partner. But it was not a coalition of parties in a partnership working together. And we propose things like, you know, meetings of the parties coming together, the five parties, the leadership meeting, the second round bodies meeting, having assemblies and so on, so that as party members we could discuss how the government was going and say, well, no, the government is making a mistake here, there and everywhere and so on. All the government is doing well. We have to support the position the government was making. We talked about a party newspaper, we talked about regular, what Satish raised very early on, regular public meetings, you know, interactive public meetings as a partnership. Many recommendations. I remember Jack Warner saying, you know, David, if we, if we implement half of these things, the partnership will for the next 15, 20 years. But we never did so. It did not work as a coalition of parties. [00:28:56] Speaker B: Do you think it was deliberate that those meetings were never held? Was there a genuine attempt or effort or willingness or wanting by the various leaders to keep this thing together or what's Your opinion? [00:29:17] Speaker A: I think that the focus became government and that this view was that once you have a coalition government, in other words, you have members of different parties sitting in the parliament or in the Senate, that that was sufficient and that the utilization of state resources to implement projects and so on would win the support of citizens in subsequent elections. But that was not enough. That was certainly not enough. And that was an important lesson and experience in spite of the efforts of some of us to try to keep it on track. [00:30:04] Speaker B: Let's take another call. Hello. Good morning. [00:30:07] Speaker E: Good morning, Satish. Good morning to your guests. With regard to the economic review committee, I believe that was a step in the right direction. I believe that the participant's heart was in the right place, your good self included. Sir, my question to you is where is that report now? What was the final verdict with regard to that report? 1, 2. Also, with the benefit of hindsight, what would you do differently if you were to participate in a coalition government today as opposed to when you first joined the partnership so many years ago? I'll listen up here. Thank you. [00:30:49] Speaker A: Okay, two big questions. I don't know how much time we have. The first one is easier to answer. There was no single report produced by the Economic Development Advisory Board. We produced a number of memoranda which were sent directly to the Prime Minister by the chair. So there was that. And then we were doing ongoing work. We had a foresighting exercise being done. There were consultants that were brought in to help us with that foresighting because we were trying to identify what are the sectors and economic sectors that the country should focus on in terms of diversification. We, for one of the things that we were working on was trying to strengthen the energy services sector because we saw that the production of oil and gas and so on would not be sufficient in terms of earning a foreign exchange given declining output and the volatility of prices. So we thought that the human capacity and physical capacity of our energy services sector would needed to be focused on so that they could go out under, you know, in a coordinated way to, to. To get business in, whether it was West Africa or East Africa or in Latin America, Caribbean and so on. So that was one project we were working on, a steel pan manufacturing project because we saw unlimited potential for the manufacture of quality steel bands, branded Trinidad Tobago steel pans, huge export markets all over the world. So those are just some. But the foresighting exercise is also very, very important. And there were a number of others that don't come to my mind off the top of My head. But we were working on some major diversification projects with respect to what would I have done differently. I'm not too sure. I mean, what do they say that hindsight is 2020 vision. So it's always easy to look back. Certainly. I think that in MSJ, we made the best effort that we could to try to have, which is why that major document of report of the chairs of the political parties was produced for the political leaders. I was not the political leader of the MSG at the time in 2011. I became political leader in 2012. And shortly after that is when we tried to get that document back on the agenda of the political leaders. What happened was that at the same time that we tried to get discussion around that and around the issues of the commitments that the partnership made to the country. In the manifesto and the Kaiserbar Declaration was when there was controversy between the COP and the UNC over the position of mayor of the San Fernando City Corporation, because the mayor was Marlene Coudray, who was supposed to be a cop, but then she switched allegiances and became an executive member of the unc. And the COP felt aggrieved that they had lost not just Balin as an individual, but lost the position of mayor of the city of San Fernando. And that was a very contentious issue for the COP and the unc, particularly for the cop. And that distracted, I think, from the bigger questions of how do we build this coalition of political parties in the partnership and how do we get the government back on track to the commitments that it had made. And so we lost that opportunity to correct that. But I tried my best to bring that to the attention of the other leaders. [00:34:33] Speaker B: Yeah, we don't necessarily. We don't necessarily have time for another call. Looking at our messages sent into our WhatsApp, somebody asking, do you regret leaving the partnership? [00:34:48] Speaker A: In retrospect, no, not at all. I think that many people felt that my walking away. Well, I should know. Just me. MSJ leaving the partnership and my resigning as a senator was an indication that the MSG was prepared to stand on principle and consistent with our philosophy and our policies. Because for us, it is not about office or positions in whatever. It is really about defending the interests of the majority of the people of Trinidad and Tobago in a fundamental way. So I have no regrets whatsoever. [00:35:27] Speaker B: So as we wrap up our interview here this morning, quickly, a minute or two, tell us what's next for the msj. What can people look forward to? [00:35:37] Speaker A: Right, so we are going to be going out visiting our members, planning towards a Party congress later this year. And we will also be having, as I said, our campaigns. We're going to ramp up our campaign of worker education at workplaces that are not unionized. And then we will launch, perhaps before carnival, most likely, a second campaign, national campaign on financial matters, not on finding how you manage your personal finances, but we want to identify the fact that banks are making huge and bigger and bigger profits every year, but people who bank or do have accounts and so on, having to pay more and more in terms of fees and charges and that kind of thing, that is unfair and unjust. Are we going to take up that matter in a very big way? Yeah, I let that out for you, Satish. I was supposed to announce what the CAFE is. So you just got a blind. [00:36:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I appreciate it. And these campaigns are very, very important because I think that as a citizenry, there is so much that we need to learn about how things work and why things happen the way that they do. So you have a greater understand. I want to thank you for being with us here this morning and for giving us an insight into the msj, some of the thought processes, some of what's expected to come and what has happened and why certain things have happened. Thank you once again for being with us here this morning. [00:36:59] Speaker A: Thanks. Satish and I will share with the media the names and contact information for our three spokespersons. Avion, Drake and Bailey on health, Davinan Sinan on education and Runako Greg on public law matters. [00:37:10] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. So. And that's where we drop the caterings. On our interview this morning, ladies and. [00:37:13] Speaker A: Gentlemen, the best insight, Instant feedback, accountability, the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.