FUTURE OF THE UNC

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, Instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5. This time we've got a pretty interesting interview for you. A gentleman, he was actually here in my position a long time ago and he joins us this morning. Let's welcome to our program Dr. Suresh Ratan Ramachan. Dr. Ramachan, good morning to you. Welcome to the program. Your microphone is muted. Dr. Amitabh, we're not hearing you. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Okay. Yes, that's better. [00:00:34] Speaker A: Yes, we're hearing you now. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you, Satish. Good morning, Satish. And good morning to all your callers, all your viewers. And may the new year bring prosperity and blessings to everyone. [00:00:45] Speaker A: Same to you and yours. Thank you so much for being with us here this morning. Interesting comments made that were published recently in the newspaper. We were just having this discussion with Ken Essential about the opposition and why people would be making some of the comments that they're making. When people make comments, it's not that they don't like or they hate or they're against or whatever else. It's because sometimes people want to see better. And it's in that vein that sometimes comments are made. And you made some comments that were published recently. For people who may have missed the article. Remind us some of what you said. [00:01:19] Speaker B: Well, firstly, I don't think that people who are making comments about the UNC are against the unc. I want to agree with you that people are very concerned about the UNC winning the elections and they want the UNC to win the elections. Even people opposed to the UNC who are in the PNM are hoping that the UNC can show a particular face and that they can once more trust the UNC to be to give them the kind of governance that they feel is in the best interests of the country. The point I made essentially to Mrs. Bisesa, it's not a point that I have not made in the past. It's just that the first time I've written it so strongly, if I may use that term in my Facebook. But I've been making comments about the UNC and the manner in which they have been approaching and strategizing for the election. That really, really concerns me. Let me just say before I do that that I am not against the unc. I want to say that categorically, yes, I did join the ONR in 1980 under Carl Hudson Phillips because I felt that we needed to have more of a national party and to remove the race bogey from the elections. I was also part of the NER as You know, and then I was part of the Kamala Prasad BSESA administration. I was also the mayor under Mr. Pandey. So I am not against the UNC. I am for the UNC, but I am for doing the things that will cause the UNC to win the next general elections. And the point I'm making to Mrs. Bisesa is that if you continue to do the same things that you did in the past in the same way, you're not going to win. And I do not think that Mrs. B saysa can win the next general elections if she continues to have the same people around her who have not distinguished themselves in the Parliament nor as members of Parliament representatives in the manner in which she had perceived in 2019, when Mrs. Prasad Bises made the call for a new generation of leaders, that was my term, a new generation of leaders. And I said to her, I am going to be the first one to go on a platform and to declare that I am going to exit the politics to make way for that new generation of leaders. Fouad Khan and Tim Gopi Singh also joined me in that. So we supported her in terms of this new generation of leadership. But what has happened in the intervening years between 2015, 2020 and now, has she got the results that she expected to get? Has she got the support in the Parliament that she expected to get? Have these people been able to win in a manner in which they should win the marginal vote in the six or seven constituencies where it matters? And I believe, and I'm saying this again as I wrote, that Mrs. Bissessa cannot win with the same team. I note though that she has made some important steps. For example, in the choice of the candidate for Lupino seat for San Fernando west, for Sangre Grande. I think those are some important steps she's taking. Divish, Mirage and St. Joseph. It's a good choice, but I hope that he can bring the seat home. So those are some good choices. And if she continues in that vein, getting quality candidates, the UNC is going to stand a better chance. But at the same time, Mrs. BCSA has to be courageous and Dump. Yeah, I'm using the word dump. Dump about six or seven or even more of the persons whom she has around her. Mrs. Prasad's problem is that she's being told what she would like to hear as a leader by this group of people who are around her and they're feeding her ego and her self beliefs without telling her the truth. And that is one of the worst things you can do to a Leader. It is just like in the PNM at this point in time where everybody coalesced not because they like Stuart Young, but for self survival, but for self survival. That is also what is happening in the PNM so quickly for nine people to turn around and everyone saying I'm going to support them. Stuart Young, it's not. It's not just about the party getting together. It is about selfishness and self survival. And you're having a lot of that also by a lot of people now as MPs in the UNC who without the shoulder of Kamala Passabi Chester cannot stand on their own. And that is a reality also. Just think about so these people who cannot stand on their own, they have been with her for a while. Yes, loyalty is important, but isn't winning the election more important? You cannot do anything in any country if you don't have power. When you get power, you have to know to use power. And I think that Mrs. Vizasa needs to stand up with courage and say to her people, listen, you got to step aside and I have to do the right things that need to be done in order for us to get into government. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Who are these people. [00:06:46] Speaker B: I am looking at and I'll name them like I named them in my blog. I do not think Anil Ram, Ravi Rati, Ram Khatijah Amin, Bari Padarat, Vandana Mohit. I do not think that they have cut it in the way that I expected them to cut it. I do not think so at all. And I think the time has come for Mrs. Bisesa to make some judgments about it. I'm not going to deal with the other five who have already been put on the sidelines. I don't think that they have any opportunity to come back, although I think that Mrs. B. Saysa handled that wrong. From the point of view of leadership, you mustn't be afraid of having elements which you call dissidents in your party. That's one of the things that can make you stronger. When you are able to deal with opinions that are not that are at variance with your own opinions and feelings as a leader. You have to look at all opinions and you have to make an assessment of whether these people have a point or don't have a point. If you don't have a point, call them in and tell them that and show them the truth of what you are saying compared to what they are saying or the veracity or the possibility of the outcomes and consequences and so on. But I think that you don't Damage your party like that by putting these people on the sidelines. In addition to that, I think that there are very bright people who are not being brought into the party to do the kind of thinking and preparation that is necessary at this point in time. I may not have all the information. Maybe she's doing that. I don't know. But from what I read and from what I hear and from what I speak to people who have a very deep interest, I think that they have not been brought into the mainstream to do the kind of work that is. That that's necessary to be done to win. [00:08:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Most times when there are conversations about the unc, the conversations gravitate towards individuals and who these individuals are and the role that they play, either good, bad, or indifferent. But there needs to be a conversation as well about the party and about the structures of the party and the reason why. I'm saying that we have a clear example recently where there was great discontent in the pnm. It was visible, it was voiced. You could see it, you could tell it. But as a party, they had the mechanisms to deal with that. And whether the party's stronger or whether they're still divided and they're hiding it or whatever else, the point is that the matter was dealt with in an official capacity. The party, the supporters of the party now are clearer in their minds as to how they should think about a certain thing moving forward. Does the UNC have those mechanisms available and are they functioning? [00:09:52] Speaker B: No, I don't think so. And that's why I'm saying that a lot of things could have been resolved at the level of if the leader was a little more sensitive to what would be the outcomes of the choices she made in how to deal with some of these dissident elements. The problem within the UNC has always been we and they, you and them. And once you. Once you oppose something, you are seen as an enemy of the leader and so on. And that is not what leadership is about. That is not what leadership is about at all. A leader must. Okay, if people are enemies, they're enemies. You deal with that. But at the same time, in politics, you need to keep your enemies closest to you. Sometimes that's what you have to do. Because in a electoral system and in a politic, a couple hundred votes means the difference between winning and losing. You have to manage this thing very, very carefully. Look at what happened in Tanapuna under Ramjak, and we lost that by 300 votes because they took 300 votes. And it's happening all over the place over this series of elections. So you know, the UNC does stand a chance. But are we showing the people that we have the capacity and that we have won their trust? But there's just one more point. It is not that the people don't want to change. You know, race has not always been the fact in elections. You know there's always going to be a base of East Indians supporting the UNC, a base of people of African descent supporting the PNM. But look at what happened in 1981. 91,000 people were the margins. Look at what happened in 1986 or 1983 in the local government election accommodation. People voted overwhelmingly for the accommodation. Then 1986, 33, 3. Then you come back and they gave Panday the opportunity in 1995 and they came back and they gave Kamala the passad b sister the opportunity 2010. So it's not to say that people don't overwhelmingly want to vote for what they see to be in their interest. People are going to move, people are going to make the change. But it's up to the politicians to convince them that this is the change that is going to be in their interest. I said that we are doing the same things and expecting a different result. It's not going to happen. The one size fit policy is not going to work. You have to segment this population and see what people different needs are and deal with it. And that's not happening. And one of those critical areas is the youth vote bringing people into the mainstream. [00:12:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I've spoken about that on numerous occasions. [00:12:40] Speaker B: But Satishi, the thing is that we have so many bright young people who can use social media to influence the youth vote. But I do not see that happening within the UNC at this point in time. All I advocated it several times to Mrs. Beachesa and others and to rural Munilal. There are a team of young people in the UNC who have the talent. Listen, the UNC has a lot of talent. You know, the UNC has probably better talent than the PNM has five times over. But how are we coalescing all of this talent in the interest of the UNC and in the interest of the country. [00:13:17] Speaker A: The focus of your contribution this morning is interesting because there are two discussions that take place. Actually a couple discussions that take place, but two are more prominent I think. One is Kamala Posabi says it needs to go. That's one discussion you hear. And the other one which is what you're suggesting is that, well, Kamala Basad Beseta don't need to go. But so many people around her need to go. Which is it? [00:13:46] Speaker B: The reality is that Mrs. Bissessa is the best judge at this point in time of her leadership life. And she, in the interest of the country, she herself has to come to a personal decision as to whether she feels she can really lead the team into the next elections and win or whether she needs to say, I'm going to be exiting and you know, please party vote for a leader. I don't. I don't want to tell Kamala Passad Bisesa whether she should go or not to go. I have my own private opinion on that. And out of respect for Mrs. Bisesa, which I've always had, I would. I would not. I would not venture to tell her to leave or not to leave. But I want to say that she has to be the best judge of that at this point in time. And that is why I'm saying that the people around her, her executive, her members of parliament, they need to be more truthful to her. They are the ones who need to be more truthful to her. They are the ones the country. A lot of people in the country are, as you're saying. Yes, Mrs. Kamala Prasad is approaching an age where she needs to go. But Mrs. Kamala Persadises remains a very bright person, you know, a bright politician. I think what she needs to do is to have some people who are political strategists around her. And I think she's missing that as part of her team. And I think that what has happened, she has whittled down her team to just this group of people whom she. She, for some odd reason or other are the ones she trusts. And she has to open up her mind again not to be as mistrusting as perhaps as she has become. [00:15:34] Speaker A: For those of you who may have joined our conversation, we are speaking to Dr. Suraj Ratan Rambachan discussing matters related to the UNC. Let's. Let's encourage a couple calls as well. For those of you who'd like to join the conversation, let's see if we have somebody here. Hello. Good morning. [00:15:48] Speaker C: Morning, satish. And morning, Mr. Ambachan. [00:15:52] Speaker B: Morning. Morning, sir. [00:15:53] Speaker C: My condition is if we had caliber people in past government, why the country is in the state, why? Why? No politician has put this country on a path to economic development yet. It is yet to be done. And we have bright people. What are the bright people doing? Filling their pocket. Well, answer this for me. [00:16:16] Speaker A: All right. Thanks for the question. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Satish, you Know that he is making the assumption that the people's partnership did nothing of substance. The people's partnership, you know, set the stage within the five years for transformation of the country. People's memories are very short, but when you go back into what was done, you would have seen that a lot was being done in order to transform the country. During that time we had one of the best ministers of Agriculture who was making strides in in the agricultural sector, and that's Vasant Barak. We had one of the best ministers who was making strides in terms of social services and the care for people as a whole. In terms of the Ministry of the people, that was Glen Ramada Singh. You had a very, very, very good Minister of Health in Dr. Fouad Khan. And that is why so many of the backlog of surgeries and everything else was reduced and a number of good things were happening. So it's not correct to say that that is not true. Then you had myself and Minister Ministry of Works. I don't think that this country has ever sat down to evaluate how well I did as a Minister of Works and as a Minister of local government. I remain the only minister who put his telephone number on the billboards on the highway and said if there's a pothole texturaj and people never misuse it and there's a text and written 24 to 48 hours porthole is filled. People tend to forget that the traffic that existed at Valencia was removed in about nine months by the bypass road that was built through all the field. People tend to forget what has happened by Karanee, by the licensing office. And that road was supposed to be cut and go right into Piako. So a lot of things were being done and the quality of work that was being done also was great. After nine years, the M2 Ring Road has not collapsed between Paria Suites and Deb. So, you know, Satish, I can go on and on in other ways and the structure of the economy. Kevin Rabnere, very bright man. He was a very good Minister of Energy. But you know, five years, while it may sound like a long time, is also a very short time because two years of that is really, really spent in, in the learning curve. And what people, what people do not understand is that when you come in as a new government and into a public service in which people have loyalties, it's not. You have to start to win those loyalties in order to get your work done. [00:18:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:55] Speaker B: And that that takes time in building those relationships. Also. I'm not making any defense and by the way, I'm just telling you some of the realities. [00:19:03] Speaker A: Take another call. Hello. Good morning. [00:19:06] Speaker D: Good morning. I called to commend Dr. Ramachani and I fully agree with every single that he would have said. He would have said he's a man who understands and as a matter of fact, he is one of the best advisors to any prime minister in this country. And I believe that he is good at management. And this is something that we should utilize in the last few years that he has in public life. I think we should utilize it well. Many times disagree on what he says, but the fact is that his expertise is unquestionable. And I commend him for the work that he has done in this country. And I hope that he himself can find a way to work with the opposition if they get in government, or whomsoever is in who formed the next government to advise whomsoever with regard to proper governance of the country. Because Satish, I always tell you, irrespective of who is in power, the vulnerable in society are most important to my heart. And I care for these people. [00:20:17] Speaker A: Yeah, Dr. Ramachan is trying to ask you something. [00:20:19] Speaker D: Yeah, doc. [00:20:20] Speaker B: No, I'm not trying to ask him something. I just wanted to say, Satish, I'm not looking for any work. I'm not looking for any ministerial position. Right. But just now you're saying find a way to work. Let me give you two examples. When Ramona Ramdial was in charge of party organization, Ramona Randial asked me to organize as part of a party school, a series of seminars for local government representatives. I organized it and we held three sessions and then it was closed down because Mr. Tancu did not follow through to make sure it continued. And I want to say Mr. Tancou could deny or whatever that, but he is the one who should have ensured within the party that those sessions continued. And then secondly, about two years ago, I offered, when the last local government election I noticed, to train. We held one or two sessions at the party in Chaguanas. And then Katija Khatija Amin closed it down. She shut it down. She's the one who should have continued. But she used to come late to the seminars. Half an hour, hour late. This is fact. So that it's not that I've not tried to help. I want to help. [00:21:41] Speaker D: In a helping manner. [00:21:43] Speaker B: Listen to me, Carony Central, you probably don't know me right now. I'm mentoring a group of about 14 young people who came out of university and they did management studies. And I'm mentoring them to be a bit of a management consultant. And I'm giving to them thousands of dollars of training material because at age 75 I am beginning to dispossess myself of knowledge as well as material. So you're talking to a person who doesn't come out and talk about what he's doing all the time, but you know who is willing to help. But you can only be willing to help and help in an environment which accommodates. Accommodate that kind of philosophy and that kind of intellectual charity. [00:22:28] Speaker D: I hear you and I agree with you. [00:22:33] Speaker A: Thank you so much, Karen. Essential Dr. Amochan, as we wait for another call, you were highlighting the various ministers and the People's Partnership and the good work that they were doing and, and all that was achieved. But it's a conversation that we have on the air all the time. I mean I ask Carony central this, I ask others this all the time when they go back and they highlight all the good work that was done on the People's Partnership. The People's Partnership. Well, they lost the election in 2020, in 2015. And it just don't make sense. If you have an administration that is doing all this good work, it stands to reason that they'll be given another chance. But that didn't happen. We. Why do you think? [00:23:11] Speaker B: Well, and that is a post mortem that I don't think that the party really did to find why they lost. When the PNM was fighting the election in 2015, Stuart Young in particular, together with Faris Al Raoui were all over the country. Find out from people why the PNM lost so badly in 2010 and they built their strategies around that. You see, Satish, one of my things about politics is people don't remember what you did. They don't remember. I, I am telling you I did a lot to transform chaguanas as a MIA. But even you probably wouldn't remember 20% of the things I did. But. But they are there on the ground. But people don't remember it. What people are concerned about is, is not what you have done in the past. That is history to them. Satish. They see that as an entitlement. But what are the new entitlements that you are. You are going to provide in the future. And that is the point I'm making to Mrs. Bishasa. You have to reveal your plans in a way that people are going to see their interest to be taken care of. And that is very serious. The past is irrelevant to people at this point in time. What you've done in the past is irrelevant, Satish. They want to see what, what the future holds to them. And in that regard, there are different groups of people who have different interests about the future. And that is what we have to find out. And policies have to be modified or policies have to be put in place to show them that, that this is what is going to happen. And that is where you have to also now build trust. And your trust is going to be built by the quality of the team that you bring, also before the electorate. [00:24:46] Speaker A: Let's take another call. Hello. Good morning. Good morning. [00:24:52] Speaker E: Good morning. Good morning to Dr. Rambachan. Dr. Rambachan, I think that you are the most effective minister of works that this country has ever seen by your. By actual works. I agree with most of your assessment with the way the UNC needs to go forward is the people around the leader or the leader or both has to go. Because I looked at Kamala about a week ago and she doesn't look the. She doesn't look the part to fill that job of Prime Minister. I don't think he's capable. I think they should really do some introspection in the party and chart a new way forward with a new leader. And I need that executive. There is a. Is like a anchor on the unc. Thanks a lot. [00:25:51] Speaker B: Thank you very much, Satish. I think, I think that Mrs. Bisesa is struggling. I think she genuinely is struggling with who is going to replace her as leader. I think she's struggling with that. I definitely think so. And when she's looking around and making assessments of the different people around her, the pros and cons are coming up, the pluses and minuses are coming up. And you know, when you are in the leadership shoes like she's in now, and you have really built a party, and let's give her credit, she has built the party. The party has sustained itself over the last 14 years in which she has been there. It is very difficult to want to hand over a party to an entity or group or person whom you don't feel can really carry the boots. But at the same time, that's a fault of the leadership. Because if you are a leader who's thinking about the sustainability of your party into the future, you should have been mentoring and developing leaders to replace you. [00:26:53] Speaker A: But why should that be her decision? If the UNC is a democratic party and you have mechanisms to select a leader that shouldn't be coming up? Asabi Sessa's worry, the membership should decide. [00:27:06] Speaker B: That and you're absolutely right on that point also. But as I'm saying, it becomes very personal at some point in time. And you're right, because just as she's saying that there's a lack of democracy in the PNM where they have not been allowed to vote for a leader. One man, one vote. Well, then she should allow that also in the unc. But the flip side, she has won the leadership vote. [00:27:30] Speaker A: Well, I was about to say that because the flip side is for persons who say that Kamala Prasadi Sessa needs to go, the party's membership does not. [00:27:38] Speaker B: Agree because she's been winning all the time. [00:27:40] Speaker A: Winning all the time, yes, with reduced numbers, but she's been winning. That's the overall. And it's either you subscribe to the democratic process or you don't. [00:27:50] Speaker B: Because then there is a democratic process by which she has stayed. And you're right, therefore, now do respect that democratic process. Now, the other question we have to ask Satish is to what extent is the call for Mrs. Bisesa to go really as broad as people are making out to be? Or is it a couple hundred voices that are saying that? Or is it that there are other people outside of the fold of the UNC who want to vote for the UNC but who want to see a change of leadership? [00:28:22] Speaker A: There are all those destinations, so many different discussions. And we've had them on the program before. And I've often said that people who are not a part of the UNC shouldn't be allowed to dictate who gets to run the unc. And it seems that way because what you have is you have people who claim to be supporter of some other entity, COP or I'm just using COP because that's what you hear. COP or some third force. They're on defense or whatever else. They are not a part of the unc, you know, but they want to tell the unc, hear what if they don't move this one, if all they don't put that one, I'm not going to vote for you all. And I find that's the tail wagon, the door kind of scenario. The PNM, the business about that. The PNM went ahead with their business. Dr. Raw, he says Stuart Young. Stuart Young who? Vex. Vex who? Vex. Vex. Everybody had to put a tail between the leg and they have to trump and follow suit. [00:29:10] Speaker B: Correct. And that's why I'm saying Mrs. B. Saysa has to be more courageous in some of the decision making if she's to Respond to the population with a team whom the people feel that they can trust and who the people feel can govern the country in a way that is far superior to that of the pnm. Now, what I think people want to see also, Satish, I think people want to see a revelation by the UNC of some of its plans to deal with some of the more critical issues that face the country. And two come to mind, crime and the economy. To me, those are two of the critical issues. And I think the election this time is going to be decided yes on crime, yes on the economy, but yet, yes, also Satish on can we trust the UNC again? [00:29:55] Speaker A: Let's take another call. Hello. Good morning. [00:29:58] Speaker F: Yeah, good morning, satish. Good morning, Dr. Rambachan. Greetings to you, sir. [00:30:02] Speaker B: Greetings. [00:30:03] Speaker F: Greetings, Dr. Ambachan. Lemma add to your listener 100 houses a week. Water mysteriously producing itself in your pipe. Where certain places for years wasn't getting water. All of a sudden it was getting water. [00:30:19] Speaker B: Correct. [00:30:20] Speaker F: The interchange by Grand Bazaar, that was unfinished, it was started by the pnm, but it was finished by the unc. And that was critical because it is the normal procedure for the incoming government to leave all the projects by the previous government, the partnership government did not do that. They pick up the Grand Bazaar interchange and they completed it. Dr. Ambachan, let me ask you a question quickly. This is my main question to you. Do you believe that in Trinidad and Tobago, old talk beats performance? [00:30:51] Speaker B: I think propaganda beats performance. I think that the PNM out propaganda the UNC in 2015 and again in 2020. But, you know, you're talking something important about development. Satish. When we were building the highway to point 14, right? People do not know this, but the highway had already reached Grand Trace. And on the other side, it was cut right up to Guapo. Now, people were looking and seeing us put Styrofoam on the swamp side of the highway, Mosquito Creek, and they were beginning to laugh and say, using styrofoam, this 14 and 10, 10 years now that Styrofoam the highway has been built on it because of the nature of the soil. And nothing has happened. But on the other side, it collapsed. And in two years nothing has happened to put it back into order. That would never have happened under the UNC government. That would have been put back in order already. And today people every day are driving and you would not believe, I suppose, you have driven there the danger to drive on that little piece of road there. Satish, that doesn't even have a shoulder. And we have accepted that in this country from the Ministry of Works. We have accepted that to drive on a highway without a shoulder in on the Mosquito Creek. So that's threatening life. There are regular accidents there, you know. [00:32:10] Speaker A: Yeah, regular accidents there. We see the images of them on social media and let's take another call. Maybe the last of the interview. Heather, good morning. [00:32:20] Speaker G: Good morning, Satis. Good morning Dr. [00:32:25] Speaker B: Money. Money. [00:32:26] Speaker G: Dr. Amazon, I will agree with you that you one of the best minister of work, somebody who is always accessible. You, you go getter, you get the job done. I think comparatively speaking, yourself and Minister Jack were two of the most hard working ministers during that time. Dr. Ambachan, you made a statement that the past is irrelevant. I just want to address that for a few minutes now in relation to the past, how I see it is this, that you must look at it comparatively if you have to select a government. And in terms of deliverables. Now we are looking at the United National Congress against the pnm. If I have to judge the PNM based on their past, I will say that the PNM pass is one of promises never materialized. And they will promise you and they will come in this election again and they'll make promises that will not materialize. You see a trend for the last nine years right now under the People's Partnership led by Karnapasadi Sessa, which you were part of. We have seen, as you saw rightly put there, some of the things that you have identified. So therefore the people has a choice to make based on the United National Congress past history because they only serve in office twice, right? Once under Pandy and the second time in a coalition type of government where Khamla Prasad BCESA would have led. But Kamna Posad BCESA was not given the opportunity for sufficient time in office to really develop on her on her promises. But she did well and the government did well. So therefore, from that perspective, Dr. Seuss Bambucha, I respect you a lot, but there must be a comparator made a comparative analysis made on the history and the deliverables and the ability to deliver on your promises. Thank you so much. [00:34:30] Speaker B: Okay, but let me, let me make a final point for you because Satish, your time is Renault in 2015. The person who is 17 years in 2020, who was 17 years old in 2020 is now 22 years old, right? That person who is 22 years old. What is that person thinking about what the UNC has done in the past or what the UNC can do for them in the future. And what percentage of the population is made up by that whole new cadre of voters? Because this is generally a youth population, this our country. The person who was 25 years in 2015 is now 34 years old, still a youth. Is that person thinking about the past or is that person thinking about the future? So that's what, that's what I'm saying. People want to hear what you're about. People want to see how their interests are going to be served. You know, you have to treat them as customers. And what are these customers want from you? What it is that the people of this country want that they are not being now given by the pnm, that the UNC should come in and fill this piece? What it is, that's a big question, you know, Satish. What it is that the people of this country want that the PNM is not fulfilling now, that the UNC needs to fill that space. And that's the information that has to be collected and brought back and turned into policies and presented to the people, turn into leadership, leadership strategies. [00:36:00] Speaker A: Let's look to the future in tandem with the conversation. All eyes are on the 2025 general election. I mean, we've had a number of conversations with industry stakeholders from various fields and they've all said that whoever stares the country's future, who holds the reins of power for the next five years, it's going to be important to the country's development, or lack thereof, and how we navigate some of these challenges. [00:36:29] Speaker B: I think it's critical. I think it'll be critical. I think they are absolutely correct, Satish. The reconstruction period is going to be the next three to five years. And if we miss that boat, we are going to be in deep, deep trouble. Because I don't see the windfall coming like Guyana has had a windfall. I don't see the windfall coming like we have had in the past. And unless we can really excite the investment community to come in and engage in the diversification strategies that are required in the country, we are not going to get anywhere. And diversification has to be a cornerstone of any reconstruction of the economy. What bothers me even more, Satish, is the joblessness of graduates. [00:37:11] Speaker A: And that's why we have just a couple minutes again. But I want to get from you straightforward in a minute or 2. Can the UNC win the next election? Do you think so? [00:37:23] Speaker B: The UNC can win the new election, win the next election? I think they can win. I think that they are poised to win. I think only the UNC can give away the next election to the pnm. But as I said, the UNC has to have a way very quickly in order to show that the people can trust the UNC once more. Because the propaganda has been that you cannot trust the unc. The propaganda has been that the UNC is corrupt, X, Y and Z and so on. All of that has to be eradicated. And that can be eradicated by the team that is going to be presented. The quality of the team, the background of the members of the team. And that is why I say that just like myself and Fuat Khan and Tim stepped back in 2020 and said, you know, let a new generation of leaders come forward again. People have to step back voluntarily and move on and let the party move on with a new cadre of people in the next. At the end of the day, Satish, there's going to be a place for each and everyone in politics because if you have a skill, there's going to be a contribution that you need to make. [00:38:29] Speaker A: Yeah, this we're going to have to drop the curtains on our interview this morning. Pretty interesting, straightforward, frank discussion, what you think are some of the issues that need to be addressed. And sometimes these frank discussions rub some people the wrong way because some people can't see the value. They can't. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Let me just say this. I am 75 years old. People don't realize that. And this is not a time for speaking to please anyone. This is a time to speak what is honest, what is truthful and what is good for both the UNC and what will be good for the UNC will be good for the country. And that is something that we need to do. [00:39:06] Speaker A: And that's where we're going to leave it. Dr. Amachan, thank you so much for being with us here this morning. The best insight, instant feedback, accountability, the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.