Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Again, Trinidad and Tobago. Welcome back to the conversation here on Freedom 106.5 FM, inside the morning Rumble. I am now switching gears very quickly as I get set to chat with a gentleman that is no stranger to us here in Freedom, Mr. Anthony Hopkins III. Good morning to you, sir.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: Good Lord.
Eric Hopkins. Eric.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Eric. I don't know. I seen Anthony. Eric. Eric Hopkins.
Yeah. Anthony's the actor.
All right, all right, all right. It's good to have you.
It's good to have you this morning. And let me just do this very quickly and get that going.
So with that being said this morning, I say good morning to you. You know, I was looking forward for your in studio.
I'm not even sure. Are you in Trinidad?
[00:01:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: All right, so you're right here. Just a little. You're just a little lazy this morning. If you to drive down the road and come and see me this morning, you know, he is normal.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: I was planning to. I was told virtual was an option. So, yes, given. Given the long night I had, I decided to take her up on the option.
[00:01:17] Speaker B: Oh, damn it. I have to. I'll have to pinch Melissa next time, you know, when. When Eric Hopkins is coming in the building.
Let that gentleman come in the building for me, please. Always a pleasure chatting with him. So let's talk a little bit. A long night last night.
We still have no clear results as yet in that internal election. And what is most damning for me is that coming off an international. Not international, sorry, a national election results when the election concludes at 6pm on the national scale on April 28.
Hours later, victory was declared. And this is on a nationalistic scale. This is 100,000 plus voters membership, I would imagine, for the PNM. What is taking so long for us to get a clear, you know, established clear winnings as the seats being held by various candidates who apply for different seats.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: I think it's a great question and it's a question a lot of Trinidadians ask because we're so accustomed to a slightly better, more modernized version of these things. Political parties and elections, I think, are best when done in the more boring, archaic way. Because if you think about it, if elections had machines, electronics and so on, we would all have doubts. If you have pieces of paper, it'll take longer, but when you count the pieces of paper, you can be pretty sure, okay, this is the result. So I understand and empathize. In all of the groups that I'm in, PNM groups, Heliconia constituency groups, we have a group with all the candidates, all of us are discussing the same thing so that it's reasonable for someone to say that first off the bat. Secondly, however, having lost election, we have less access to resources in terms of finances and control of the government purse and so on. All constituencies were told, you need to staff this up yourselves with your internal volunteers and to make it happen. All of the people who are working all of these campaigns are random old men and women, young men and women who were told, hey, can you help us? And said, okay, sure, and volunteered to help. Right? So these aren't any special. These are random people who are doing this mostly for free. They got free food, they maybe get kakada here and there, but it's just not in terms of the effort.
They're not actually being remunerated.
And then for those who actually voted, because not all of your audience would have voted, there's a cover sheet. You get a booklet, a nice little small booklet about the size of a credit card or so. And on each page of the booklet, of which there are 15 or 16 pages, the COVID page, and then 15 pages where you have to go in and put an X or put a stamp on each person when they, when they go, when they're going to count these votes, they have to rip off the COVID page to verify the actual numbers of people because they, they sign each one to say, by the returning officer, I think I forget the technical term for that person.
They have to report each one individually and then count them and then put them in piles and then recount them. And then. Because in some cases the elections are blowed, right? So I, I, I don't think it's 2022. I think the one before 2022, I volunteered and counted votes in Barataria Sawa.
And that process was painful. It was very painful.
And I think then we just had primarily two slates. There were a few positions with more people, but it was primarily two slates.
And in this election, we had 51 different people offer themselves for different PNM posts. So from a party that had a very heartbreaking loss, for 51 different people to say, I believe in this party institution, I believe I have something to offer. And in offer themselves meant the work was only that much harder. So you have to rip off these things, count them, put them in piles, recon them, and the human beings are doing the counting, right? So if I count and I get 1,000 and then I get 200, and everyone in the room says, yeah, I think that's good enough. We don't agree counted, they might say okay. And if they say okay, and the different slates have different people supervising and they go, yes, it's fine, right, then they might stop. But because we have so many people and some of these races are legitimately very competitive, people can say no, count it over. I want to know exactly how many votes we got.
And when that happens, there's no magic to recounting. You have to. I have young children, so I'm always counting with my son driving in a car, you know, from one to a thousand.
It takes a while to get up there in terms of manually counting these sheets. I will take, take it, count it, hand it to the next person, they count it.
That process is a laborious, you know, there's no magic to it and it just simply takes time. So, so I think I want your audience to understand that while we have lots of issues and we'll get to that in terms of the election and I'm sure there's some, you know, stuff, but generally speaking, the counting is not where people are just counting.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: You know, I hear you with that and with the advent of AI and technology, you said that people may not trust AI. Can we trust persons who are counting these ballots? I mean, this is human. Humans can and miscount. You know, I notice you said I count one, pass it to them. How many persons down the chain are to count? That's one, two. And then to get, to get that with AI or with the advent of calculated things, you know, it can be done quicker, generated faster. Now there's no foolproof way to say, well, it's perfection. All right, so we can do the human and have human error. We can do the AI part of it and have that feel as well. So we had to trust something.
All right. And on page seven of our Guardian this morning, one of the things I fell in love with is our Honorable Opposition Leader, Ms. Penelope Beckles stating that the PNM needs modernization, which is in stark contrast to what you're saying is taking place one and two. The fact that she was left to line up, there were nobody ushering her in quickly to cast up, she had to face the line. So she had firsthand experience of the long windedness it took to get to the, to the station to cast a ballot.
So, and then I'm allow you to respond to everything I'm saying as I give it to them very quickly. We have elections committee saying that there were voting irregularities there taking place.
Even Mrs. Penelope beckles herself was quoted as saying that some people on the list. Some people were not on the list, but was allowed to vote. So let's get all of that coming from Eric Hopkins III and of the pnm. Let's talk.
[00:07:38] Speaker A: This is the second. So. So I think it's good that she was made to. To face the line.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: I like when the imperfect systems we all share. Citizens are shared by us equally. Right. That. That's. That's something I. I appreciate.
I always tell people, no, when you go to the post office, we all have to line up. Right. So to me, that there's value in that from an election perspective. I think the election is mostly fair. And as much as we want to make it better, more labor would have helped just simply more people.
But this 51 people was a large number of people. You have to count and then put them in different piles. That whole process took time. And then there are few things that can be. There are things that could be done, but there are a few things that can be done. So it can be made better, but not much better.
And most people who do elections tend to prefer a human being doing the actual counting, because these human beings are young people, and old people have families and they're busy. But you have young people before they have families and old people who are retired who say, yep, sure, I'll help.
And when. Because when you meet them, like, I mean, I'm involved in pnm, and we know these faces, right? So you may not know them, but most people in the constituencies, when you go in, hey, Frank, you know Joan, how are you doing, boy? Pressure here today, boy. And, you know, these human beings, and for all of the flaws of the institution and all of the different things, most people will be able to say, not that if it's one or two votes, people wouldn't feel aggrieved. I'm sure they stole one or two votes. But in terms of, like, massive stealing, it just simply doesn't happen. There are too many people in the room, and you're gonna know somebody in the room who you consider to be someone of integrity. You've known them for a long time.
These are people who you organize bake sales with, cake sales, back to school drives and so on. And so, yeah, back to school drive. You know, if I have a cousin who need a backpack, you know, they'll get one, but nobody, you know, these people aren't people who are massively stealing things left, right, and center to the point where I, as a. As a candidate, you know, don't have faith in the process. And These actual human beings who are doing the process.
But there were issues, though, right? So some of the issues that we encountered was it wasn't clear to me whether or not canvassing was allowed and how. How. Where exactly canvassing was allowed. There were tons of instances where people were given lists, primarily from the. The. The. The 1pm slate, not because they're any more unscrupulous than the rest of us, but they have more money and they're. They're the institutionalized version. So they were able to print slates higher labor, go there and give it to people, right? So I was driving people back and forth to two constituencies in the East Trinity where I'm registered to vote in pnm, and then the.
Oh, gosh, Bonaire West Community center in Lopino area. And as I'm going back and forth, every time I went into the Trinity, one someone, despite going there four or five times, they would give me this piece of paper saying, vote for the one team. Other teams are doing it as well.
But it seems like the version of things that you shouldn't do, that everybody does, right? So anyone who works in an office, you have children, you have your school, says, print 20 of this raffle sheet, whatever it is, and we do those things, right? That technically is stealing from the company, but it's allowed. So I was new to the process. I didn't know that, but everyone I spoke to said, oh, yeah, that happens every year.
And it seemed to be one of the things that people just gave up on. And it was up to you to make sure your people were there as well, giving out the sheets so that people knew how to vote.
So that was something that.
On the margins.
But when you see it, yes, that would have gained you some votes, but I don't think it would have been enough, although it might have been in a few instances to sway the election. There were instances. I think the bigger issue for us, two big issues, was storing the ballots.
So given we kept asking, right? We have teams of lawyers who ask, and the independent candidates have a group where we've been discussing and trying to figure out how to solve some of these problems.
PNM ran this election, how they've run elections before, which is, we're not tfid, we're not doing wrong. These are the rules of how things generally run. Please don't ask us too many questions. Just kind of like, go along, get along. And we're like, well, write the rules down. So we have a process, and I understand where they're coming from, right? Like I worked in credit unions and anyone who's ever worked in any PTA or any committee organization, those groups have elections. Those elections have no rules. Like we come in, we vote and then people say, what are you doing this paper? Or we just raise a new hand and then we decide and then that's what happens, right? That's not written down.
But once it's fair enough, ish, people go along. And I think that's how they were running it. Given how many candidates there were, given how many independent candidates they were, and given the fact that we've had these issues, especially since one man, one vote, two or three cycles now, people have asked me, just write the rules down. We have enough lawyers in PNM where we could have written them down and address a lot of those concerns. And then a big concern that we're going to discuss is the list.
The election was called early. That's a choice, right? That was a choice.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: When was it? Before I go forward, when was it? When was it due? If you said it was called early.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: So technically it's late in terms of Dr. Raleigh had prevented part of the installation of Stewart in terms of the coronation process was to prevent that, that, that okay, election, forcing it into 2025, which is election year. PNM doesn't have elections within an election year. So that was part of that whole thing. Okay. Mind you, I don't know the actual reasons why he didn't do it. Well, part of the grievance is that people believe that that was orchestrated, right? And I'm among those people.
Only Dr. Ollie would know what's in his heart. And people who were in general congress can tell you. And so it is late. But given that it's late, you could decide, hey, we're getting ready for election. We need these many months to prepare, the list isn't ready and then call it, and then we would have been fine. The election gives a bias towards incumbency, gives a bias towards people with more name recognition. And we didn't have, at no point we had any debate on issues on any of the slates.
The one PNM slate had lectures, they had no discussion. None of the videos I've seen, I haven't seen all had any conversation where people were asking questions and feedback and what's your plan? Part of my grievance and the only reason why I ran was I asked several people, what's your plan? And I didn't hear any. None of it did not exist. I did not hear it right. So if you ask People like, what is their plan for this? What is it?
You just said we should modernize. What was your plan? To modernize elections. Right. So you didn't hear that from. From the official slate. Some of the independent meetings that I've been to, where I've met several of my independent candidates, all have to say, including the one slate, it was really nice and heartwarming to meet these people and hear what they had to offer, but I would have preferred, like, more debates. I'm a policy nerd, a policy wonk. I believe in, you know, more participatory democracy where people argue on specifics. And there was very scaffolded. So given that we called the election early, it wasn't prepared. There was a list. People got these two or three days to get physical list, not electronic list. You could share physical lists. You had to get scan and then reprint. That whole process was annoying. It was purposely painful. We didn't. We got names and addresses. No phone numbers, no email addresses, some of which we have. Right. So the part of the modernization that has been going on is that we've been gathering these things in Heliconia, where he used a similar system to track our membership. And I think PNM is going on to that system, kind of online system has these things. And in going from paper and anyone who's done it, lots of companies go from paper to digital. There's tons of errors. And there should have been a longer process to say, hey, this was our first pass at gathering these things electronically. Where did we go wrong? There were entire party groups whose things were missing. And that's easy to explain. Most likely that piece of paper was lost. Right. So those things aren't evil and malicious, but it felt painful. And people who came were hurt by not being able to vote. Especially after you participated in healthy elections. You're like, you know me, I was there. This polling station, I was all polling it, and how could I not be in the list? Ah, right.
So there are a lot of those. And if you had more time, those people would have known their neighbors are not on the list. And then say, oh, your whole partial group is missing. Then your form was lost, which could happen, these human beings, and then fixed. That didn't happen. So you got a list.
We got a supplementary list on Saturday, Friday, Saturday.
And then on election day itself, which I found was most painful, people came to vote whose names were not on the list, were not on the supplemental list that we got Friday, Saturday before the Sunday election, they would call Balize House.
Balize House would then clear these people to vote.
And I don't know who these people are. Right. So there's this group of people who. And everybody is thief in the election that I've been told.
But if you think about it, there are quite likely instances where something went wrong and it's reasonable. But the sniff of it, of people whose names are not an either list that we verified, which means separate from whether or not they're legitimate, we couldn't canvass these people.
I couldn't go out and tell them, hey, I have a better idea. Vote for me. And these people were allowed to vote and that happened all across Trinidad Tobago. So I'm quite sure. Go ahead.
[00:16:37] Speaker B: So, I mean, you have given us a mouthful, but I am. It would be remiss of me if I didn't ask.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: Could we.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Is it possible?
Two questions. One, does the PNM constitution allow for canvassing to take place on election, eternal election day, and can we say safely call this election none and void?
Set a fresh date because of too many irregularities in it. One stated one, one irregularity you just mentioned.
We did not, we was not allowed to canvass to these people. They showed up, magically, magically disappeared and they were allowed, you know, and then somebody called Balizi House, who in Bali's house, and saying to tell you, well, yes, is it a video call, you know, is it that the PNM has truly lost its way? Can we put this to rest and say, listen, there was too much. We want to do this the right way. We need a further six months. Give us until January 2026. I'm just asking. You have been there a minute now.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: It's a fair question. So there have been several legal letters, several of them on Facebook and so on, where people have asked, right, have these irregularities explained the esc, all of whom are volunteers, manually. I know some of these people personally. They're nice people. So I, I don't believe anybody is.
But from a process perspective, like what I just described to you is ridiculous. There's a list, a secondary list and then other. What is that? That is. That is. It's, it's. It's crazy.
Other than a lawsuit forcing someone's hand and we. I don't think we're going to sue each other. Although for someone who. No, it might happen.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Because I was thinking the same.
[00:18:20] Speaker A: It could happen. Other than that the people to decide internally whether or not they feel comfortable are the people who have now won.
So it's unlikely that self onto self will say, oh yeah, maybe Wait a minute, that's not going to happen. They've done everything in their power to sway the vote in their favor. Calling Italy, all of these things, choosing a slate instead of letting people go up under themselves in terms of hiding behind the coattails of a leader who we've granted unopposed status, all the teams have all made it clear we support the leader. So I don't see the winners voluntarily saying, yes, I agree that. So other than a lawsuit, and you know, that's not impossible, but it's hard to say.
So. Yeah.
[00:18:59] Speaker B: So we basically are now forced to recognize this last election that took place, whatever the results may be, the final results that will be published, I would imagine maybe in mere hours, maybe a day from now, that is what Trinidad and Tobago will have to accept going forward.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: That is the most likely scenario. Yes.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: So in order for us to go back to the polls, more or less, it will, it will. It will take a lawsuit or something, something drastic has to happen for them to call it and say, all right, we have to revisit these polls and do this over.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So there are few situations, right? So we asked many, many, many, many, many, many times, how are we storing the ballots? And we were told repeatedly, there's no process of storing the ballots. We're going to count it tonight.
But a lot, some of these were held in schools. Schools are open today. So that given how long it happened, like it could be situations where you had to move the ballots and in recount in the questions, where were the ballots? Right. So there are tons of issues that we asked that just simply could have been addressed. But the esc, election supervisor committee, the esc, to their credit, they were busy, they didn't have enough time. So it's not that they.
I think they could have responded to more emails, but it's not that they would just bad people, Right. There was a lot, 51 different candidates, many of them independent. So it's. Every slate has, you know, a friend who's a lawyer trying to be highly educated now. So you get your friend, hey, send me a letter, you know, asking this, and they have to respond. It would have been a difficult exercise in the days leading up, and then on the day itself, pandemonium, I'm sure.
But those are choices that those, those choices did not have. The same way calling the election early, installing Stewart, all those are choices and those are choices that we didn't have to make. So it begs the question, and it also hampers the healing process. Right? So if you have a process where you had A fulsome debate on. Because what you heard from the one slate was we lost our way. We lost our way. You didn't hear exactly how we lost our way. Right. Because what's going to happen when you lose a war?
Competing generals, you know, logistics, army supplies, Air Force, navy, all going to say it wasn't us, it was somebody else.
There was no fulsome conversation and agreement on what the primary reasons for the loss were. And that matters because depending on what you decide, you fix those things. There was no conversation on not a detailed plan, but a high level plan to fix that. And then having an election that has all these issues marred means that people who offered themselves instead of being heard and then losing a vote legitimately, which happens to all the time within the PNM could feel aggrieved in that I didn't feel I got a fair hearing. I don't feel as though the process was fair and all these things. And that hampers, I think what would have been a nice healing process for us. So all of these things can be issues that we have to deal with.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: Going forward as it relates to modernization of the voting process. In terms of the PNM internal election. Two questions again. One, when is the next election due constitutionally and what are some of your recommendations in terms of modernizing the, this electoral process that the opposition leader is now alluding to?
[00:22:03] Speaker A: So, so the in. In one is four years, one is two years. I think four years is when. So before the next general election we will have P go back to the polls and we will, we will have a referendum on the performance of these people who, who have now most likely won the election.
Easy, easy, easy thing. Write down the rules.
We've done this for a while. We have norms and those norms are not bad norms, mind you. Write them down. In writing them down, what you're going to have is a few things where people say, oh, I actually didn't think that was a norm, I thought the norm was something else.
And you'll get a conversation on what the rules should be. We have four years start now. You know, do a paragraph every month and you'll be finished. And that's something we ask for. Many people beg for because we do have norms. It just had. So I was in constituencies where people who under 18 voted, the people who let them vote legitimately thought they were in the youth league and they were allowed to vote.
And none of these things are evil. Right. So I want to make people understand the person sitting there is a volunteer who on Sunday On a rainy day, could have been home hugging their kids, watching tv, eating popcorn or anything else. They said, sure, I will help, right? And they're also hurting after the loss and they came to help and someone told them they heard somewhere that anyone could vote. Bring your party card, whatever it is. And there were people who voted. We saw a 12 year old vote, we saw a 17 year old vote and a 16 year old vote. Actual people. I think there'll be letters with specifics I'll be sent later on.
So these are things. And when you write these things down, you will clarify what these things are, what some of these norms are. People canvassing, I think that's against the rules. But it's something that's against the rules everyone breaks, apparently. So comparable to photocopying something at your office for your daughter's school. And it's 20 sheets, right?
No one is arguing that stealing toner cartridges is legal. No one is saying that. But we all print things for our children, for their school. That's normal. So the question is it okay? Is it not okay? And what are the rules and what are the norms? And writing the rules down would be the first obvious way to start asking because we have smart people in PNM who would have studied these things. Is there a better way to design the booklet? So counting is easier? So a lot of these things would help.
But to me, writing the rules down would be a place to start and then some of the counting process. I am a big fan of manual counting, but there are ways that that could have been done easier and those kind of things and then just where to store the boxes and so on.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: Well, you have just raised some very, very startling concerns that. I mean, I don't know if at all it will be prudent for the PNM party to, you know, redo this election in a few months time, giving persons more clarity in terms of a better way of voting. Because if people was helping all along. I'm being seen in the constituency. I was at the polling station. I bring chairs, I was packing, which means I support the pnm. All right? I wouldn't expect a MSJ or UNC person to come and pack PNM chairs. That.
That's unheard of. So if I am there active and I'm an adult, it means I am a member of the pnm. I am here, you are seeing me and then I show up on polling day to vote and you're telling me I'm not only. Listen, I can't. What you don't know who I am.
That is, that is, that is startling.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: To dozens of people.
[00:25:33] Speaker B: It's very discouraged.
[00:25:35] Speaker A: It's most likely for legitimate flaws in the process. But if you had given yourself more time, which is a choice, right? These aren't.
It's not a hurricane, it's not an earthquake. These aren't things that are forced upon us. You could have chosen to enfranchise your membership by allowing these things to be fixed. Right.
And those things because so on. In looking up in one of the police stations that we were at, someone came. They waited three hours to vote. Their name was not on the list and waiting, right? So they're calling Banji House. I'm sure the people there were doing human service. So you call and call and a million people would have been calling because we know who these people are. We would be calling them. But at a certain point they actually stopped calling everyone. They stopped taking calls from anyone except the designated person at the polling station.
At 5:52 she got approval. Yes, your name is on your list. And had to race to the polling station.
And she got in at 5:58. So two minutes before time, like that's heartbreaking. So like imagine how that person would have felt. So this person got to vote. But I know of cases of people who had similar situations and left. People who were told the name of Nothing list was not aware that there was this magic other list that you could have referenced. We found out that maybe around midday or so, but this person barely got in. And like these are people who like, you know, it's a weird three hours on a Sunday just waiting for like these are. And that's a choice that, that is a natural choice that someone made. Right? So, and those are the things that I think for PNM voters, particularly when you look at the. The Great Stay Home that happened in 2025, where if you keep making the wrong choices, people will let you know. And, and, and that's something that we have, we have to work on because it. We did not have to do that, right. These are choices that we made. And far too often the PNM voters are letting the, the leadership know you were making the wrong choices.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: I like the way you put it across. The Great stay home of 2025. The great stay Home. The thing about it is, I mean one can. One texter is now messaging me. Davy. I'm not surprised about this internal election. It reflected what the preparation was like for the 2025 general election. So why are we surprised about the irregularities taking Place now. All right. And I have another voice note here that I want to share with you quickly.
[00:28:03] Speaker C: I mean I'm here in this interview here and the young man sounds pretty smart and educated guy.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: He is.
[00:28:10] Speaker C: But yet he's in the pnm. I think that's not the place for you young man. I think you should rethink your political allegiance. With all due respect, look at all the problems you going through for this party. You really feel, you really seek your interest nama. So I think you should rethink. With all due respect, that's my opinion. Yeah. Don't take it to heart.
You know the piano.
This is a surprise to me to be very honest with you. I always thought as an individual, a young individual growing up in Nanny, listening to the politics and following the politics of the country.
That PNM was a well oiled machine as propagated by. By the successive leaders.
So to hear this this morning is like a shocker to me. And then them fellas had the goal to stand up in parliament and get on and get done.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:29:03] Speaker C: BNM become the laughingstock of the country. Now why the media not pushing this when UNC had little problems every day headline what happened now see.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: You know we must thank Eric Hopkins III for really sharing the second.
[00:29:21] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:29:22] Speaker B: Why am I keep saying the third is the second?
[00:29:24] Speaker A: Because the second is supposed to be junior. My father in his hubris gave me.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: The second but I have it on my system here as the third. I always refer to you. I have. It's the second.
One stroke and it went here wire. Hello, good morning.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: Morning.
[00:29:38] Speaker D: Very quick.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:29:45] Speaker D: Looking to create a new machinery there. Right. It's starting over them.
To me the first thing I observed was her mistake was bringing back two.
Two guys who lose to pass number parliament who lose and bringing them back now as senators and any more calling throughout the the election going right. So bringing them back to me living a bitter taste in people mouth. And also now which is most important now yesterday, now you're hearing irregularities. If you're starting over that not supposed to happen at all.
[00:30:31] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:30:32] Speaker B: All right, thank you very much. Hello, good morning.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: Press prime time. We want to make some calls. Important issues.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: All right.
So at the end of the day we do have these, these inconsistencies that take place when it comes to elections.
Not just on an internal elections for a particular party but also on the general landscape of things as.
And I mean in conclusion this morning, your final thoughts with the PNM going forward.
What do you think is needed to be done at this time in order to secure victory in 2030.
[00:31:13] Speaker A: Sure, sure. First, I'd like to respond to your two callers.
I appreciate the first gentleman alluding to me being smart. I think Toronto and Tobago as a country can be proud that we've educated a generation of young people who are now in a workforce who benefited from gates and dollar for dollar. And both our parties can take credit for that. And that's something that we can be just uniquely proud of. Lots of countries that are middle income countries have not been able to accomplish that to the extent that we did.
People who want to get involved in democratic process in Trinidad and Tobago generally have two choices. No matter how obvious it is to each and every one of us, we all will have friends who will make the wrong choice. In this case, I assume he assumes I made the wrong choice and I respect that view.
I, as we've discussed before, advocate for anyone who wants more from the political process, regardless of the party support. I've chosen PNM for a number of reasons which I can articulate. Regardless of the party's support, I actually don't care if more of us get into the process, PNM or unc, don't start a new party, please. There are people in those, both parties who are waiting for you, go and help them. So I always advocate for that. And I have chosen the PNM for a number of reasons and I'm helping. Right. That's important in terms of being a well oil machine. Anybody who operates in a non profit space is aware that non profits for all of our benefits and so on have a number of issues. And the issues that you see with the PNM are typical of non profits.
The lack of rules. In a nonprofit, we're getting money for kids to go back to school and so on. And we gather the money, we put it in a pan, we write it down and then send it. And then the treasurer is like, oh, how much money you got? Well, about this? And you know, like, why did you write it down better? Like we, because we have friends and family, you know, who are accountants and educated. This could have been done so much better. But this group has been doing it for years and they've over the generations send tons of kids backpacks back to school, but they just never wrote it down properly. Right. And all these non profits, of which PNM is one, are trying to figure out how to modernize and do these things better because there are systems that can do it better. We don't have to do it this way.
And one, there are people who legitimately believe, because part of the philosophy, I think, of the ESC election supervisory committee, which is our, you know, essentially EBC is one, we're not cheating. These are people we know. And most likely I'm going to make it very clear they are not cheating. Right? These are just human errors, but they just refuse to modernize because why are you making such a big fuss? And as your organization grows and becomes bigger, you kind of force to modernize, document some of these things. And that process is never perfect. And within the pnm, what you're seeing is an imperfect way of us modernizing some of these things, writing down these rules, because those norms exist. But as a new person coming in, you're like, this is nonsense. But if someone told you this is what it is, you would be okay with it in many of the instances, right? So those are things that we face in terms of going forward for 2025. Many of us have been on the stump talking to independent candidates, met them. These are great human beings. Many of the people on the one team, I disagree with some of them strongly, very strongly, but many of them are also decent human beings. I mean, I say great for them, but they're decent human beings who mean well.
And many of us are going to stay involved in the organization, stay involved in the modernizing. And in doing that, what's going to happen is that these people are going to help become part of committees in many instances and push some of these agendas forward. The things that we were championing on the stump, it's up to see what the Prime Minister wants to do in terms of welcoming, because she keeps talking about unity in one pnm. This is now her instance to show whether or not what she said on the campaign trail is something she actually means and whether she invites these independent candidates to not just me, but these people are smart people who mean well to contribute to the revitalization of the party, which we all recognize is something that needs to be done. And I think I can probably say up to a man, once she says she's open to it, many of us are willing to join in that effort and help the party modernize and become the party we all want it to be.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: Thank you very much, Eric Hopkins ii, for chatting with us this morning.
It's always a pleasure to have you on the program. And I know in the not too distant future we'll be revisiting some of these very safe arts topics, especially when the election results finally come out. As to who won what seat and whatever, an office within the pnm. So thank you again. Have yourself a safe and productive day and stay dry.
[00:35:21] Speaker A: All right, thanks.
[00:35:22] Speaker B: And that concludes our show for this morning here on the Morning rumble on Freedom 106.5 FM.
