WOMEN IN THE LABOUR MOVEMENT

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio freedom 106.5. Good morning again, Trinidad and Tobago. We are switching gears as we are going to chat with the president of the General Aviation Communication and Allied Workers Union, the acawu. And we are chatting with President Wanye Sozano. Good morning to you. [00:00:27] Speaker B: Good morning, Davy. Good morning. Thank you so much for having me. [00:00:31] Speaker A: I am grateful that you are here with us this morning as we're talking about the labor movement in Trinidad and Tobago as it relates to women. Because, you know, normally when you talk labor movement is always a man of the helm and the men, you know, let's. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Is that what you're concerned saying? [00:00:47] Speaker A: But that's the norm. You know, you see data and you know, people tend to believe it's a man, it's a manly thing. It's men take the helm here. So to see you as the president along with your comrade in arms, I, I would imagine the PSA president, Felicia Thomas, you know, champion and pioneering because for workers. Let's talk a little bit about, yes. [00:01:09] Speaker B: Very strong woman as well. [00:01:10] Speaker A: Yes, very, very, very strong woman. I, I just hope that she can let her, you know, her followers members know that even though the media budget review is coming up for debate, it's not the national budget, it's just a media budget where a supplement, supplement allocation of funds is being asked for the next 90 plus days. Just to get us through. What is the consensus now when it relates to the women in labor movements and you know, what is happening on that front? [00:01:46] Speaker B: Well, I would say that we, I could speak specifically towards the Jatum women's movement. We have been doing a lot of work and sending out a lot of educational materials as it relates to women in labor. You know, there's so much that we would like to see happen. There's so much that has happened before, you know, those who have come before us, you know, we are customs talking about, you know, the, as you said, the men in labor and the historical men in labor. But you know, we haven't, you don't really hear so much about Elmer Francois Cotel Walcott and these other strong women who came way before us, you know, and did some amazing work. You know, at this time we, you know, it is a struggle, but we are definitely making some groundbreaking moves. [00:02:51] Speaker A: All right. When you talk about a struggle, you know, let's see if we can reiterate on this a little bit or elaborate a little more in terms of some of these struggles you think women face when they reach the helm. Of a movement such as yours, a union, for that matter, what are some of the struggles you all had? To you, you would think that the labor movement for women had to endure in order to stamp their name and leave an indelible mark in this country? [00:03:20] Speaker B: Well, I would say, I mean, generally, as women, I mean, and I can't paint it with a broad brush, obviously. Right. But you do see where people may assume certain things because you're a woman and may try to push certain things past you what they would not do to a man. Very few. But sometimes it makes a important difference. And I believe as a woman, and I'm not saying that any, we should try to make it easier, but as a woman, you have to be stronger. You have to pull out that masculine energy, you know, to be able to rumble with the guys, because it is a generally, it is a man's world, you know, and so you have to pull out that masculine energy to really rumble and stamp your name and be respected in this space. [00:04:26] Speaker A: Totally, totally understand. I mean, there's a lot of conferences held on women's equality in the workspace and all of these things. You know, as it relates to the media budget, what is your union hoping to see come out of this media budget and what do you anticipate on the national scale going forward later this year? [00:04:47] Speaker B: Well, as you would have said before, it is not the national budget. And so I believe our expectations are a bit tempered. And, you know, we are in a position where we are waiting to see exactly what's going to take place. This is a new government that has come into place and we would like to see what their stance is when it comes to labor. I know there has been a lot of positive talk and it is hopeful and we are hopeful in that regard. But, you know, we wait to see exactly what, you know, putting out a particular stance. [00:05:30] Speaker A: You know, the thing about it is we are hearing much talk about the fact that our economy is not sustainable at the moment. We do not have. The public purse is operating in a deficit. You know, let us talk a little bit about the politically and socially changes you would like to see as a president of a trade union enveloped going forward with this new regime. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Well, we have been hearing that for, I think, with every change of the government, you know, we do hear that there is a deficit, and we understand that that is the position that our country may be in. I do hope to see the current government make use of the proper use of the labor force that we have. I believe that Trinidad and Tobago, the most the best resource that we do have is our people and so be able to use, use the labor force to be able to create proper revenue and proper revenue income streams to be able to assist in that area. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Now I want to get some clarification as to what your union covers. I know it's general aviation and allied workers. Can you shed some light on that for us? [00:06:53] Speaker B: Yes. So we represent the, we are the, we represent the workers of Caribbean Airlines. So we represent the cabin crew, the engineering department, maintenance and engineering, finance and all the other ground departments. [00:07:15] Speaker A: And that is including Allied as well. [00:07:19] Speaker B: Pardon. [00:07:19] Speaker A: And that includes allied workers as well? [00:07:22] Speaker B: No, no, just Caribbean Airlines, that's correct. [00:07:25] Speaker A: So what is allied when we speak? [00:07:27] Speaker B: Allied, as in any other workers that are in conjunction with the aviation industry. So there are other, for example Swiss sports and catering, those types of beautiful. [00:07:46] Speaker A: And I'm happy that you said that because I know Telpa, the pilots, they have a separate union that covers them. So when we look at negotiations on the whole, maybe you can help our listening audience as you are a labor movement union head, understand the dynamics of negotiating. When you go to the negotiating table, more often than not we find ourselves in a position where we negotiate every three years. Right. And then sometimes you find yourself negotiating nine years later you're still trying to negotiate to cover a three year period that has gone six years ago. And then you had to come up and so it goes. Why is it that these negotiations cannot happen in a timely manner every three years or within the three year because you start a new negotiation period. Right. Why is it that it cannot happen within the same time frame that it, it's supposed to happen? [00:08:40] Speaker B: Well, actually that is a very interesting question. The, what I would say is there are a lot of factors not including the, I guess the relationship that the, the company chooses to have with the unions. And I could say for our union in particular. So TALPA has been to the negotiation table since Caribbean Airlines has been in existence. However, AKU has not ACCO has been fought, if I am to use that strong word when it comes to even being able to put something forward onto the negotiation table. Caribbean Airlines chooses not to recognize the AKAWU and neither the other unions. They only recognized DARPA at this point in time, although the Industrial court and the Court of Appeal has ruled that they are the successor company making the, the other unions spelled the RMUs for the Caribbean Airlines. You know, so when it, when I believe that if the, the unions and the, and the company could have a better relationship moving forward, things will Move much smoother, you know. And I could say on our part, we have been definitely reaching out and asking to have that relationship, but we leave it up to the company now to do their part and, you know, do what's best not just for themselves, but, you know, for the company and for the workers at large. Because, as you would know, you know, having a good workforce, a workforce that is comfortable and willing to speak out through their union and be able to have discussions that can only be of great assistance to the company. [00:10:52] Speaker A: One of the things I want to ask you. What would be the ideal circumstances and situations that unions would like to see fostered between union and company? What will be ideal? [00:11:07] Speaker B: Ideal would be being able to have, you know, monthly, weekly or monthly meetings. I must apologize. I. I should have said this at the beginning. I. A new mother. Oh, congratulations and stuff that you're hearing. That's my baby. [00:11:26] Speaker A: How old is. [00:11:26] Speaker B: How old is about 10 days old? [00:11:29] Speaker A: 10 days. [00:11:29] Speaker B: Just about 10 days old? Yeah. [00:11:31] Speaker A: Wow. You. So you still in the sleepless night phases? [00:11:36] Speaker B: I am indeed. [00:11:38] Speaker A: Congratulations on your. On your. Is a boy. A girl. [00:11:42] Speaker B: A girl. [00:11:43] Speaker A: Oh, congratulations. [00:11:44] Speaker B: Thank you so much. [00:11:44] Speaker A: Congratulations. I. Beautiful bouncing baby girl. Congrats. 10 days old. Nice man. And you are here on the job on the radio discussing these very, very pertinent issues. I'm hearing the coin in the background. That's fine. I'm not upset at all about it. [00:12:01] Speaker B: That's the thing, you know, and especially as women in the industry, we feel very passionate about the membership and the workforce. You know, when it is you come, when people come to you and not telling you that they're being treated unfairly, it is very. It's hard to just, you know, leave it and let it go. You know, you feel like it's almost like if they're your children, you know, you want to nurture, you want to make sure that they are, you know, well taken care of. You know, and I think that is what especially women bring to the table when it comes to the labor movement. You know, as much as I was. [00:12:37] Speaker A: Going to ask you, when you look at that whole thing of maternity issues and, you know, sometimes they give you three months, and that three months has to work in with you being pregnant pre delivery and post delivery. [00:12:51] Speaker B: Yes. Sometimes you leave your child at three months, at two and a half months. And it's. Anyone who has had a child before, been around children, they know that at two and a half that the child can't really do anything for themselves. And if it is, you don't have Family members around, you know, have to trust that whomever you get to take care of your child will actually do that to the best of their ability, you know. [00:13:20] Speaker A: So what would be the ideal? [00:13:21] Speaker B: It is very difficult. [00:13:22] Speaker A: So what would be ideal in post pregnancy, you think the ideal time if you was to put a. I mean you're a new mom, so I don't know if this is a fair question to pose towards you as opposed to a person that would have had two or three children prior. What do you think would be ideal as a union head that you would love to see Carl enforced when it comes to their staff becoming pregnant, pre pregnancy and post, what do you think is ideal time frame for a mother, a new mother like yourself, to, to stay away from the job and be compensated for it? [00:14:02] Speaker B: Well, what I would. In Canada, right, they give their mothers one year. All right, which is wonderful. Right. But I understand if it is not something that we cannot facilitate. I believe little, least amount should at least be six months. And then also paternity leave is something that needs to be thought about as well because if it is a mother now has a C section or anything like that, she needs time to recover at this point in time. Usually companies give about three days for men. [00:14:39] Speaker A: Yeah, three days. [00:14:40] Speaker B: And you know, that, that really doesn't do much when it comes to the assistance of, you know, caring for the mother and for the child, you know, because we do need a lot of time to recuperate. I know that Scotiabank, recently they gave, I think it's 14 days to their, to their workers, to their fathers, you know, and so that would be lovely to see Caribbean Airlines implement and, and you know, moving forward. [00:15:15] Speaker A: All right, I think I have a voice note here. Let me see if it's relating to what we discuss. Mr. Davey, good morning. Tell some of your callers and response. All right. Good morning, Davy. All right, so I think we. Let me hear, let me hear my short little topic on football. Those who doing the selection for the night. All right, so that's something not relating to what we discussing. Let me see this one. Good morning, Davey. And, and with that one year of maternity leave in Canada, the mothers get 65% of their salary, but through the National Insurance system. Thank you. All right, so you see, that's good information through the national Insurance system. [00:15:51] Speaker B: Yes, very good information. [00:15:53] Speaker A: That's good information. Thank you very much, caller for sharing the thought. I think one year in my respective opinion. I don't see anybody in Trinidad, any business owner letting you be off the job for one Year, you know. [00:16:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:06] Speaker A: I mean six months is a stretch. I think three months is too little, but six months is a, is a stretch and I definitely think a six month period should be given because it's mom and baby. It's mom and baby. It's all about getting baby to latch on for breastfeeding and all these different things. And I mean when they come out of that, now that three months period. When it comes to the unions representing moms in terms of not having a support system, not every parent is fortunate to have a mommy, a grandparent that is there to take. [00:16:40] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:16:41] Speaker A: Some parents, it's just them and husband or them and boyfriend, them and fiance and in some instances mom and daughter, mom and child alone because mother and father break up during pregnancy or they may have had a situationship and got pregnant and it's them alone to deal with it. You know, what sort of provisions, as a president of a movement you would like to see companies cater to when it comes to these women, women that have to go through this. But before you answer that question. Hello, Good morning. [00:17:10] Speaker C: So I want to find out something here. Does this apply to private industry? And the other thing is three months you get maternity leave and have a. If I have a company running right. Privately, I have three girls, you know, listen, I have three girls, two guests they didn't make born here yet. They about six months on job, they come and get pregnant, they make a baby. What am I to do? So I have to pay you two of you for not on the job that you are pregnant, you hope to get to make a baby and I have to be paying you for next three months and you're not on the job. Is that applied to the private people to. Thanks a lot. [00:17:54] Speaker A: All right. No, no, that was a very good question. I was going to. Because there are business owners who would push back against that saying, listen, my business is a small business, I'm an SME. [00:18:03] Speaker B: And well, the legislation currently is once you're working for a year or more, that is when you get the NIS benefits and you're allowed maternity. Right. So in that, that specific circumstance it does not apply. You know, the person has to be working for at least a year. So they would have brought in some sort of value and income into your company at that point in time, you. [00:18:30] Speaker A: Know, so under a year. Yeah. They're not subjected to your company paying them anything. What about any public, public service? Is that for the public? It's the same, same. So you have to be working for over a year. So if you're coming. I mean, if you're coming and you're working three months and you get pregnant, a baby is nine months. So. Well, you're almost reaching the year, you know? Yes. [00:18:54] Speaker B: You know, and you. Well, you would. And I mean, and if it is, you do, if some, because some people are afraid to hire pregnant women, you see that happening a lot as well in Trinidad, you know. But I think, well, with that, if it is, the person does come off, it is not, the company does not have to pay them. Right. And they can still, I mean, being thoughtful, understanding that this person is trying to improve their lifestyle and whatnot, and bringing a new person into the world. I would hope that they will keep their job available on their return. But one thing we don't think about a lot is when women have, when women make, when women have children, right. There's something in us that switches and we want to work harder. We want to ensure that we keep a job. You see a lot of women in the same job for years and years and they dedicate themselves and their time to the company, not only because of the love that they have for the company and for the job, but to ensure that they. Because they know they have mouths to feed, you know. So I believe giving them that within that short period, right. It will definitely benefit the company in the long run. The company, the worker, knowing that this company actually does care for me and is assisting me in this particular, have people have women more interested in staying and fighting the battles, even when they get tough with the company. [00:20:36] Speaker A: All right, well said. I can't disagree there. And you know, when we look at these, these, these situations with, with women in the labor movement, I mean, they, they understand what women need, the needs of women, especially on their, on their bad, their off days, and I don't want to use the word off, but their menstrual days, you know, when these things are happening and they are experiencing the cramps, you know, they come to work, but they're not very productive because of, of the discomfort that they're experiencing. How does the labor movement look at that in terms of the employer when dealing with women in the workspace? [00:21:16] Speaker B: So as women, we are very different to men in that men can work on the regular time clock, right? So it doesn't matter. They can wake up 6 o' clock every morning or 5 o' clock every morning, go to the gym and be able to keep that up for years and years and years, right. As women, it's important for us to listen to our biological system, right? And just because on certain days you may not be as productive or it may be more difficult, I shouldn't say that we may not be more productive because I know a lot of women, and I could speak for them, that it does not matter what they are going through and what pain they are facing, they get the job done. Right. But there may be some off days, right. And. But. And they definitely make up for it, you know, in the days that they are being. They are feeling well and they're feeling themselves and they're within the cycle where they are able to. To do the most that they can. [00:22:25] Speaker A: Yeah, indeed. So. Well, you. [00:22:27] Speaker B: You did ask me a question about the support, about what I would love to see companies do right, for women when they do have children. And if it is, you know, I'd love to see that there's a greater support system, almost like an extension, you know, of the family. Because for those who don't have having a play area, having just access to care, even subsidizing care at some point in time, I think that would greatly assist women, especially single mothers who are single mothers, and I could say also single fathers, because, you know, we tend to forget single fathers to be able to care for their children and be focused. Because if it is, you know, that your child is on the compound or close to the compound and has. Is being well taken care of, you can now focus 100% on the work that is in front of you. [00:23:32] Speaker A: Well said. And I want to thank you very much for chatting with us this morning. And again, I want to. I want to allow you to get back to Bibi and again congratulate you on being. Becoming a new mom. [00:23:43] Speaker B: Thank you so much, David. [00:23:44] Speaker A: I do wish you all the best for the balance of the day. Stay dry. And I hope you have the support system that is necessary. I really do. [00:23:51] Speaker B: Thankfully, I do. [00:23:52] Speaker A: Great. Because there is no book. I mean, I don't know if you read any other books on prenatal care, postnatal care, all these things, you know, people write, but there's really no book to parenting except experience, which is the greatest teacher. [00:24:07] Speaker B: Indeed, indeed. [00:24:08] Speaker A: You're gonna experience things with baby that is different to somebody else's experience, you know, but go through it. And I wish you all the best. And thank you so much for taking a minute just to chat with us here on the movement of women in this country, especially as the president of the union that you are currently residing with. Thank you again and enjoy the rest of your day. [00:24:29] Speaker B: Thank you so much, David, for having. [00:24:31] Speaker A: Me all right, Wanye. [00:24:32] Speaker B: Okay, Bye. [00:24:32] Speaker A: Bye bye. The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.