Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability, the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: On the line with me is the political leader of the PDP out there on the sister isle Tobago and former PSA president Watson Duke. Good morning to you sir.
Good morning to you sir.
[00:00:25] Speaker A: Good morning. Good morning Devi. It's a pleasure to be here on this important talked about subscribe to radio station Freedom 106.5 FM.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: I appreciate the plug.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: How are you this morning?
[00:00:41] Speaker B: I am in good spirits this morning. Good, good spirit is Friday.
It's the final work day for me at this time. I don't have to get up too, too early tomorrow and I look forward to a little our extra sleep tomorrow.
Let's get right into it. The state of affairs in Tobago and I mean the future for you, Watson Duke. Coming out of this general election, this historic general election that we just had on April 28, a couple things happening. You have Fadi Augustine saying that they want to revamp this whole Sandals idea. You have persons saying that it's time for Tobago to govern themselves.
You'll be talking constitutional reform. We would have heard you on the ground with many, many promises and things that you would do should you get into governance. You even went as far to say at one point in time if you got the two seats and you had to become kingmaker, you would want to be the prime minister. And I mean with all those things being said, what does the future holds for you now as political leader? We have Gary Griffith this morning bowing out of politics because of that defeating or crushing loss, I guess getting over 5,000 votes. You know, what is the future as it holds for Watson Duke?
[00:01:55] Speaker A: Right. Let me just begin to say that Watson Duke is consistent.
I'm the same person I was yesterday, today and tomorrow, same person. Insofar as my perspective on life, my perspective has nothing to do with whether I am satisfied or not.
My life mission, my life mission is about people and the people of Tobago and Trinidad. Wherever there is a fight, wherever I think my voice needs to be heard, I will join that fight and I'm loyal to that fight.
So way back in 2007, thereabout, I joined the fight to leave Tobago to go to wasa to represent the WASA workers nationally. As the chairman of the union, I was successful in that.
That fight saw me expelled from the union member union I went to represent, they expelled me. But it also saw me winning the union, getting back my membership and then becoming the president of the psa.
As the president of the psc that Fight saw me in some relos, my executives turning against me.
Also myself being locked up for crimes I never committed but they need to get me out. But it also saw me overcome those trials and form my own political organization.
At that time it was 12 nil in Tobago. The PNM had 12 seats, there was nil in Tobago and that fight saw me going to the lowest low. Fighting, swimming, walking, advocating, even as a lonely voice. But also saw me over five years wiping the pinum out in Tobago.
That is from the tha perspective.
Now my fight is also again for the Tobago people.
People sometimes are very fickle. You will know that from the story of the exodus and Moses taking the people to the promised land. There are times when the people you lead seems like they are not interested in the promised land. Take me back to Egypt where we had pots of meat taken back to Egypt where our burial ground had grave stones and I mean take me back to that place. I don't want the wilderness out here. There is no water, there is no meat. Come on. I need something to see to worship and so they create something. So we have to understand as leaders you have to be made of more sterner stuff than just emotion.
Emotion is part of leadership but you have to have substance. I always say substance over hype any day. For me the question remains unchallenged to be Gunians are not happy with the relationship between Trindale and Tobago and that relationship needs to be addressed in a very meaningful way in a way that represents the wishes and intents and long term desires.
That fight is not yet finished and so I'm still in that zone as.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: A political leader and you have been in the politics for quite a minute now. There's a lot of clarion calls coming out for Tobago's autonomy for Tobago to govern themselves for this and that to happen. Based on your. I mean you've been part of the the for a number of years. You would have had the internal knowings of the financial status and the economic, the economical status of Tobago. Can they sustain themselves and what is needed to in order for Tobago if should it happen where you all become a sovereign. Trinidad is the Republic islands of Trinidad and Tobago. I don't understand why we pushing for a Tobago separate autonomy from Trinidad. I, I don't understand why to me I see Tobago as part of Trinidad in the sense that you have the borough of San Fernando, the borough of Point 14, the Borough of Arima and all these different areas, the borough of Tobago East, Tobago west, these kind of things. I don't understand why Tobago is what, six, not six 12 minute flight away from us. I think we could build a bridge and drive across to Tobago from the furthest point in Toko in Trinidad over to Tobago. So I mean from your economic position and standpoint, looking at the political landscape and affairs, especially when it comes to the state of the economy in Tobago, can it sustain itself and if so, what will Tobago do for money if they pull away from Trinidad? Just saying.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: All right, I think it's a very interesting question that begs a little bit of history and if I could just take about five minutes or more than five minutes.
[00:06:57] Speaker B: Go ahead.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: To give you the history, Tobago is worlds apart from Trinidad. Historically we, we have changed hands between five European colonies. Well colonizers they are the British, the French, the Dutch, the Colanders and the Spanish. Five of them.
Five. Trinidad only had two. Spain and the British. We have changed hands 33 times making us the most.
Well, well the country in the Caribbean with that has changed hands the most times, meaning from one to the next to the next to the one. Right, that's 33 times. Our closest rival is St. Lucia. They change hands 14 times but again only be two and two with European colonizers. That's the French and I think the English.
So when one come to look at it, Trinidad had only changed hands two times. Historically we're different politically, we are also different.
Way back in 1769 Tobago had established the Tobago House of Assembly which was an elected house was under the old representative system where we had about 14 and it had to be 21 years and over your own land and a number of other stuff.
Trinidad only had voting within the 1900s, some in 1946 around the first election.
Well 1935 that the first election but that still wasn't adult suffrage. So Tobago is more advanced politically. Tobago from a social perspective, Allah one family and there's no liable right.
We are one family one way or the other. Tobago socially from our culturally we are different.
Now bringing us together was a bill by the British Parliament called Trinidad and Tobago act of 1887. First passed in the British Parliament. That was a forced marriage.
Forced marriage. It wasn't done out of economic circumstances but rather out of payback for the slaves in Tobago rebelling or the descendants of slaves rebelling in 1876. So in 1877 they forced us with Trinidad. But the worst part came in 1898 when Tobago was made a ward of Trinidad and Tobago. That continued to be something that is provoking Tobagonians and also allow us to be exploited.
Tobago now is rich, extremely rich. Why would five European colonizers fight for Tobago 33 times? Why? Tobago is strategically located from a military shipping point. Strategically located. And it was the most valuable treasure among these European colonies. Where in the world you hear the colanders, the colonists are part of Russia. You could see coming down to the fight. Never you hear that kind of stuff, right? How come we will find people like the Dutch from the Netherlands coming down to fight? Where did they fight for in the Caribbean? No place in the Caribbean. Maybe somewhere down the ABC islands, thereabout. But down on our side? No, no.
And so we're valuable. But insofar as Tobago has 8, 8 gas fields in Tobago waters. Let me name them for you.
We have on the southwestern side which is towards the point side we have the poinsettia, the hibiscus and. And the chaconia. Yep. Towards the Castara side we have the jasmine, ibis and orchid.
Then we have most those were found in 1975 and those I told you about there, those six were found in 1975. See how long 1975 and the first three I named for you. The Poinsettia, the Zaconia, the Hibiscus. They have been operationalized and monetized in the year 2009 that is being pumped even as we speak via a 40 inch pipeline straight to Point Lisa street non stop now which number? Six years ago they found another one in Castara. It is called the Colibri Gas project in block 22.
And most recently about three years ago they found a deep water gas field of speside that is known as the Calypso gas field. The Calypso gas field is as large as the Dragon field but it's a deep water gas field and therefore exploration is going to be a bit challenging. But they do intend to to exploit that within the next year or two and monetize it. And so is Tobago rich? Yes. Let me go one step further for you sir because this morning is classroom setting.
People are referring to something in the world called rare earth minerals. Rare earth minerals, anything of great value that the earth needs, that people on planet Earth needs. Right. And those spend X amount of money for it. So a diamond, ruby, pearls, all of these things, gold, whatever rare good materials. Tobago has its share of rare earth material.
It is found in the study park quarry.
We refer to it as blue limestone, blue metal stone. People use it here but from since early back in maybe 2000 they're about there. When we try to monetize this thing, Trinidad has prevented us from getting the license to operationalize that. That can only be found in two other places in the world.
None of our Caribbean neighbor has that stool. None. You have to go to Dominican Republic to find that stool and the Anova Scotia in Canada.
That stone, if properly monetized, could bring in US$1 billion per year. US$1 billion per year from trade. Also our gas fields, if they are properly monetized, can bring in 3 trillion TT dollars.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: But with that being said, do you all have the infrastructure to refine those things to drill for it?
[00:14:02] Speaker A: Well, you're making a very good point and I'm coming to that.
You don't have to have a shoe if someone is selling a shoe and you can afford it. The truth is these things pay back for themselves. Around the world there are people who will operate on a share of the slice of cake, so to speak.
And so this is what Tobago is saying. We are not about separatism, we are not about separation, we are not about having our own.
All we are saying is that if you're going to have a Trinidad and Tobago, let's redefine the terms. We are not a ward, first of all, we are not a ward of Trinidad and Tobago. You can be a ward of yourself. It's an oxymoron. It's a legal conundrum. It's madness. Be aware of yourself. You can't take care of yourself, right? Anytime you begin to take care of yourself, then you are an individual and no longer war. Now, under the United Nations Charter, self determination is what we speak of. We do not speak of autonomy. Autonomy is one of three forms of political status. We have not chosen autonomy in Tobago. I don't know where the others got that idea from. But for Tobago to choose, it means that all three statuses must be placed before Tobago. Tobago's independence, autonomous relationship or an association that has never been done have only given us autonomy. We don't want that. Now Tobago has the mental acumen to engage Trindal into fair revenue sharing. All we are saying, this can benefit both of us. If we are stronger, we can benefit Trindal as Trindal is benefiting us right now. We need to help those terms of relationship between us properly rewritten and expressed. And mind you, there is no one in Tobago who are now leading anything politically that can best represent this than yours truly. All right, I'm young, my brain is sharp. I have the experience, I have the qualification and I have the information you observe. I've not gone into a book yet. And I've not paused. I could go on and on and lecture you for days on this subject.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: With that being said, I mean, you do have a wealth of knowledge and information on the island.
My main concern this morning when it comes to the autonomy and governing themselves, it was to break away from that, in my respected opinion. I don't think they're ready.
I don't understand why they would. Why Tobagonians would want that when we are a unified Trinidad and Tobago, that's beyond me. But I'm saying if this was to be granted, if constitutional reform was to happen and they was to say, okay, Tobago, elect all your own president, all your prime minister, you govern yourselves, we, Trinidad, have nothing. We will become trading partners, we'd make investments. What then?
The infrastructure is not in place for it to sustain itself on an energy sector level as yet. And then while that is happening, while you're running, you're getting those things sorted out to be Gonians will be starving, so to speak, quote, unquote.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: Why?
[00:17:27] Speaker B: I say that when we look at the economy in Trinidad and Tobago, the wider diaspora on a whole, and we look at where the Dragonfield is, as opposed to the talks about Guyana, Suriname, there's even Grenada, there's infrastructure that is not in place as yet.
So that infrastructure has to. Once those deals are signed and we decide to go in that direction, we then have to put down the pipelines, get the infrastructure in that could see us well over 24 months to finalize. And then once you start piping, there's a process for refining and then to push out. So you're looking at roughly between five to eight years in terms of drilling, exploration, the entire package before the citizenry and the government of the day can benefit and reap its rewards. The similarly to that of Tobago, looking at the landslide victory for the Tobago People's Party. When it comes to the pdp, what is your position going forward for the next general election in 2030 and local government elections that will soon come before that. What is your party's position?
[00:18:34] Speaker A: Well, the party position remains the same. We are here for the long haul. We are not looking for a quick fix. We are not about a flash in a pan experience.
We are not about hype. We have built Tobago's mental capacity and political reasonability, so to speak, to see Tobago differently. And what we have had going on in the last election was a lot of hype, no substance.
And so people today are waking up with buyers remorse.
They are voted for something for individuals that they don't even know what their promise was. And they continue to keep moving the goalpost so to be winners can score. So you're hearing one thing before the elections. Now the elections are over, you're hearing the next thing and then you'll hear the next thing to beg tomorrow. But we always knew the man with the mic speaks the loudest. And those who are in office will always speak louder than those who are not in office. However, there comes a time when Tobago will recognize that those who are currently there are not the ones who have their best interest at that time. When Tobago looks around, we want Tobago to have options available to them. We don't want to find ourselves absent and have to now go in with the groom and the bride. We want to be able to be ready and stay ready. And this is what the progressive democratic patriots symbol, the bamboo and the boulefi, the beliefs were dark. Times like these when people can't see naturally they need issues that needs to be highlighted and will continue to be there for Tobago. This is not about quick fix, this is not about politics.
This is about reasonable and giving Tobago time to come to the position.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: All right, with that being said, we're with you at this time. I don't know what's happening. It's like you're freeze.
Okay, I'm not hearing you clearly so we'll definitely have to circle back and get back to you.
I will call. Something went wrong there and it's frozen and I'm not seeing it. So I will have my producer reach out to you very quickly. We take a quick commercial break and we try to rectify that and then we'll try and see if we can get you to wrap the interviews. So stick around folks. We'll be back.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
