Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: The all new talk radio freedom 106 point.
[00:00:08] Speaker C: Henry, good morning to you and welcome to. Welcome back to freedom 106.5 FM and the morning Rumble. How have you been?
[00:00:15] Speaker A: Good, Good. Good morning to you and to your listeners. I've been good.
[00:00:18] Speaker C: Well, you know, a lot has been happening since we last chatted and I have limited time. So let's get into our conversations as it relates to the latest development that seems to be a great thing for Trinidad and Tobago. I for one had to go back and do some research to ensure that this either never happened before or to confirm that it did. We was able to secure a seat on the Security Council and first and foremost, I realize it's not the first time we did it, but what does that mean for Trinidad and Tobago? It's a temporary seat. I think it's granted for 12 months. So I guess we'll have to revisit it again next year and the anniversary of it.
But what is the significance importance that we get a seat on that council and how will that benefit Trinidad and Tobago in the immediate, not long term, but immediate future?
[00:01:17] Speaker A: Good question. So just to put it in context, it's for two years, it's usually for a two year period for a non permanent seat. And the significance, it is true that it's not the first time that we've been in that space, it's actually the third time. First time was in 1985 with George Chambers under his administration and then in 2002 under Patrick Manning. So this would be the third time Trinidad Tobago has a seat. So to your key question about what are the key benefits of directly to Trinidad and Tobago? Now, first of all, we have to put it in two buckets. One, the seat is part of what we call the Grulac bloc, that's the group of Latin America and Caribbean countries.
So we that group or bloc of countries get two seats on the Security Council. And the benefit of being at the Security Council as small island member states is you have the opportunity to shape language and the resolutions that are intended to solve crises, international crises that can impact migration, that could impact security issues that can impact cost of living issues, et cetera. So from a direct perspective, issues that deal with small arms, right, We've been talking about the crisis that Trinidad and Tobago is having, right? We are in a rolling state of state of emergencies, trying to grapple with criminality. And one of the key issues is smaller arms, the trafficking of arms, the trafficking of people. So Trinidad can have the opportunity to shape resolutions that would bind or provide a strategy for larger countries to participate in solving some of these issues for us in the region. So that's one of the direct benefits and opportunities that that could afford Trinidad and Tobago.
[00:03:22] Speaker C: And for those of you just joining me, we are dealing with the topic of TNT Security Council seat, whether it's historic or not. We are now being told by Amali Henry, who is an executive leadership advisor and a behavioral pollster and very, very much in tune with what takes place current affairs, not just in Trinidad and Tobago, but regionally and by some extension globally. Now, you mentioned some of the benefits for us, our third stint at a seat at this Security Council. Why is it you mentioned. I'm thinking it's 12 months. We have it for, I think it's one year, but it's supposed to be two. Why the constant shift changing?
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Well, it's on a rotational basis, so the permanent. So first of all, number one, the United nations, when it was instituted in 1945, was designed in such a way to have inclusion. In fact, it was a replacement of the League of Nations. The League of Nations was an example of a failure of preventing World War II. So the UN decided, the nations decided, let's come together to be able to work collaboratively to solve pending crises or to avert crises in order to have the P5, which are the nations who have also, namely France, Russia, China, India and the us uk they are the permanent members. In order for them to participate, they would have negotiated privately that they require a veto vote in order to be a part of the United Nations. So the United nations as an instrument was used as that multilateral vehicle to create collaboration, to collaborate efforts globally, to have that type of collective wisdom and to make strategic decisions to avert war to adverse crises. But now we are seeing, you know, as time goes along, right now the very same United nations is pulling through a crisis of cash because the US and China are withdrawing or withholding funding. So right now the UN isn't sure if they're able to pay salaries for employees in the upcoming months. And then there's a crisis of confidence db, whereby Trinidad is entering into the United nations at its lowest ebb. We see that the Donald Trump administration is using alternative means of solving these crises.
He's, you know, bypassing the os, he's bypassing caricom, he created the Shield of the Americas, he's bypassing NATO, he's bypassing a lot of these regional bodies. And he's saying, okay, let's form the Abrahamic Accords and the. And peace deals, that does not include that multilateral type of arrangement. So it's an opportunity for our region.
But we, Trinidad and Tobago is stepping in at its lowest ebb when it comes to the United Nations.
[00:06:24] Speaker C: Should we be worried that the leader of the free world able to distance himself from what seems to be the norm, the practices with the UN, NATO, etc. Form the shield of the Americas that our prime minister was invited to recently?
Totally. How dangerous is a move like that where nations form, join with the Americas and, you know, abandoning some of the traditional policies and procedures of the United nations and NATO?
[00:06:58] Speaker A: Well, if you critically look at it, there's a plus and minus in doing such a strategy. I do subscribe that some of these institutions are bureaucratic, they are slow, they are lethargic. Sometimes there's a lot of Malaysia for your listeners. We all know how molasses comes out of bottle, right? So sometimes these organizations have that type of malaise in terms of implementation, its effectiveness. So there is a need to modernize these organizations to be responsive because global crises don't work on a timetable. Today it's here, tomorrow it spins out of control. So there is credit whereby there is a need to modernize a lot of these institutions.
And it's not just caricom, it's not just the O, even NATO and many of these organized multilateral arrangements. However, when, when you, you do not push to do that type of reform and you work outside of it, there isn't buying or participation from other states and countries.
Secondly, there isn't a consideration.
You know, I see the globe as a waterbed. If you press on one end, the other end, there are consequences otherwise. So from that perspective, alternative arrangements may not have the collective wisdom other states and countries may have in contributing to some of the solutions that are required. So that would be downside.
So, for instance, you know, we talk about the Shield of the Americas. We do not know specifically as of today, what are some of the benefits that redound towards Trinidad. The last administration would have attempted to deal with some of the small arms issues. They would have applied through Mexico, as a friend of the court, to conduct lawsuits against gun manufacturers because of this high proliferation of arms into the region that wasn't successful. But when you bypass institutions like caricom, inkpass, which would have certain intelligence and understand the region, and then you create a parallel group, then you still have to coordinate with these other existing groups that are there, so it can become bureaucratic even more on its own.
So these are some of the downsides I think we should be more aware of and be a bit more hesitant and more patient and more considerate in rushing into these alternative arrangements.
[00:09:28] Speaker C: Makes sense. Hello, good morning.
[00:09:32] Speaker D: I really want to know what is the benefit? I'm happy TND gets our seat on the United nations, whatever it is, but I really want to know, I really thought it would have been security. They will help us with crime in this country violating anything like that. So what is the real purpose of this? We were getting our seat. Thanks a lot.
[00:09:51] Speaker C: All right, so again, as I suspected, would have been the general consensus of our listening audience this morning, let's break it down. Mwali. Where the average citizen can thoroughly understand why the what is the significance and benefits again, all right, of having a seat at the UN Security Council.
So I'll leave you to answer that question quickly. Next caller, quickly.
[00:10:17] Speaker D: David, morning. And to your guests, I want to know first, how much money we're going to get from having that position in the United nations and to our economic benefits first, how much money we going to get from anybody? Thank you for Spain.
[00:10:33] Speaker C: All right, so let's get a twofold question going A and a B on this. All right, let me see if there's the same general consensus being sent to me here.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: Morning, Mr. Omawali. My question is, due to our being on the UN Council two times previously, were there any significant changes or impacts made by the contributions of our members for the Caribbean or Latin American countries?
[00:11:04] Speaker C: All right, so the, the clearly that explanation is needed. You'll have to probably revisit the approach as to how you explain it. But what they're asking one thoroughly fine teeth comb kind of vibes, why the what benefits, as I did ask you early earlier on, is for us as it opposed to security for this country.
Another talks about are we going to benefit economically, financially through being having a national security seat, a seat on the National Security UN Council, if we are going to benefit financially in this country. But more importantly, are they going to assist us with our own internal criminal and crime struggles?
[00:11:52] Speaker A: Good question. So let me break it down this way.
Many of your callers talk about the benefits of security, finances, etc. Now, in order for Tran Tobago to achieve its strategic goals, be it national security, in order to achieve economic security or even energy security, we belong in a globe and many of those these issues are coming outside of us.
So a lot of the crime issues that Trinidad is facing is happening outside of our shores. A lot of the energy issues like our gas prices, our revenues for energy security that is able to pay for hospitals and to do different programs and to increase employment. All these different things, they are happening. What we see in international relations is happening exogenously outside of us. So we are price takers. We are dealing with all of the threats that are coming to us.
The national, the UN Security Council deals with these effects and how it impacts us, our daily lives.
How do we, how does it impact the quality of our lives?
So from that perspective, Trinidad has an opportunity to engage those questions so that when it comes to security matters, how do we deal with guns that are coming in to our borders and the proliferation of those guns? That is a key question that is before the Security Council in terms of how do we track guns, how do we have a proper database so that we could find where these weapons came from, is there handling of these weapons? What would be the new protocols to understand sale and managing and handling of these types of weapons? So all of these critical questions will be taking place at the Security Council and with Trinidad and Tobago being at that seat, they have an opportunity to shape what those agreements are and how these countries now will do follow up, which is the other key question to follow up on these resolutions so that the implementation will be able to positively impact Trinidad and Tobago to the other questions about the economy and money.
So if you look at the Barbados experience, Barbados has been very nimble in how they navigate international bodies to get grants to deal with climate change, climate action, et cetera. So Trinidad Tobago will be part of that discussion for from a strategic standpoint, how they deal with climate change, how they deal with security matters, of developing new opportunities and industries.
So from that perspective, they will be at the table and from who knows what opportunities, in terms of grant and funding, et cetera, that deals with those types of insecurity matters and climate action and the impacts. And finally, when we talk about energy security, we can't, we can't open a hospital, we can be a public servant with all the money that comes from the consolidated funds, which comes from energy companies who operate outside of our globe, that come into our space.
So matters of energy security, we would have faced that question with the Venezuelan question, we facing that impact with Iran. Presently in 1985, the George Chambers administration would have faced that question as well. Where they had the Iran Iraq war, many of your listeners may not know this, there was a war between Iran and Iraq. They were fighting each other. And then it evolved into the Tanker wars that impacted energy prices, that impacted costs of living globally.
And that was solved through the national, through The UN Security Council under the Patrick Manning administration.
Every time you go into the airport, some of the travel restrictions, the restrictions that happens on the ports evolved because of the 911 experience.
And the Trinidad and Tobago administration at that time sat on the security council in 2002 and had to grapple with the question of, of the effects of 911 and the war in Iraq. So everything that happens in the globe impacts how we live. Many of the legislations that came forth from the 911 experience had to be those questions had to be vigorously debated in the Security Council and it became global policy. And we live in that space because the globe presses in how it impacts the quality of life and what we do every day.
[00:16:42] Speaker C: And that's the harsh reality.
Bin Laden as far as we know, is dead by the authority of the then President of the United States.
Osama Bin Laden.
[00:17:01] Speaker A: President Bush.
[00:17:03] Speaker C: No, it wasn't Bush.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: Barack Obama, the assassination. Correct.
[00:17:08] Speaker C: Barack was the man who catch him.
Barack was at the, at the head of the of the Americas when Osama Bin Laden was allegedly captured and body disposed at at sea.
All right. The thing about it is we must understand when things happen geopolitically and criminally globally, how it impacts our local economy, how it impacts our local franchise, how the stakeholders in any region would have to respond to the war in Iraq tore through this planet. It didn't just had a war on Iraq. You bring back some memories there, boy. You know, we still see remnants. And if you want to understand the gravity of what the war in Iraq did globally, just look at Port of Spain and send your mind back to 1990, July 27, that Friday there are still fragments and remnants of destroyed buildings and empty car parks in Port of Spain. That is a stark reminder of what a war does.
Any uprising. When we look at what is taking place at home, our children are dying in Mali, our children are dying at the hands of criminals. People with ill intent.
Since under the past administration we would have entered into several or our first state of emergency.
How does an SOE through the lens of international investors.
How do they view any country, not just Trinidad and Tobago, but any country that repeatedly see the need to keep their, their, their set, their status quo under an SOE through the lens of international investors. I'm not talking tourism here, persons who would look at, who would have had companies in Trinidad, but their base is offshore, it's open overseas.
How do they look at us? How is it beneficial? How is it harmful to us?
What are the thoughts? What are the reality?
[00:19:23] Speaker A: You know, there is a stark Reality when a country undergoes what is called rolling states of emergencies. And I go no further than looking at the Jamaican experience, what the impact of the investment profile when they undergo through a strategy and a political decision of using state of emergencies to deal with crime.
I'll point you to a recent study Cambridge did in March 2024.
And one of the things that Cambridge University who looked at the experience, the SOE experience of resorting to, I think the study's name is resorting to emergency policing to control gang violence in Jamaica.
And the question was, are we making the exception the rule because SOEs to deal with extraordinary exceptional circumstances.
And if you are telling me that we are living in exceptional circumstances as the norm, it will have an investor impact because you are talking to would my assets be secure? Number two, remember, you have people who are investors operating in a space that means they do not have the access to constitutional rights.
So when they looked at the Jamaican experience investors as concern of can I be arbitrarily arrested, can my assets or be seized? All these types of questions. So investors always want to be sure that they have security of tenant, that their assets can be protected, that they will not be exposed to arbitrary questioning or searches or, you know, anything that even though I'm a US citizen or I'm from Antigua or any country and I'm not residing here, do I have confidence of freedom of movement, etc. So the Jamaican question that was answered, whereby it was found that the persistent usage of SOEs reflected and spoke to the international investors community that the state had an incapacity to control violence.
So it was in itself an admission of a place that is out of control.
You know, we could just look up north, the Haitian experience. When a state is not in control, there is no investment, there is a hesitation to invest, there is a sense of wait and see rather than, hey, this is a place that we could build business.
And as you know, whenever there is a consistent state of emergency, it also impacts the local economy. So if our local economy is impacted, there is, you know, less disposable income. So based on the type of business is disposition, their consumerism that will take place. So if local business is able to thrive, how would an international business believe they could come within a local context to be able to access liquidity in the market? So those are some of the key questions from an economic standpoint that an issue can impact. And it also tells another component that they're two investors, that there are structural issues within the country.
Because when you are moving from regular policing to coercive strategies. You're saying that these corrosive strong arm approaches is trying to compensate for structural and ineffective issues within the police service.
So that in itself tells a tale that apprehension and observation would be the state of play for investments.
[00:23:18] Speaker C: Good morning.
[00:23:20] Speaker D: Good morning, Davy.
Just question raised by some callers earlier, what benefit? What monetary gains?
The United nations is an international body.
We benefit from it indirectly in terms of even civil society organizations within the. And I can speak about the disability community.
The UN Convention is a coming together of the minds of everybody.
They have programs that people benefit from, training programs, other programs. It's not just about taking up a billion dollars and handing it to Trinidad and Tobago. This is a global village we're living in. And some of the questions some of the callers are asking, unfortunately, because they do not know or they, you know, ignorant of the facts. I take you back to the year 1948, why the United nations was formed in the first place. And, you know, all of these things. So people have to remember the history, remember the scenarios. And yes, we may not benefit directly right now, but because of cuts in funding to the United nations by one of the biggest power players, but we know that they are there supporting situations in their respective countries. Thank you.
[00:24:41] Speaker C: All right, thank you for that. Hello, good morning.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: Good morning, guest. Now, so I'm really, I'm hearing these things as it's a revelation and a break of good news that something special to happen in Trinidad Tobago, which I am yearning for.
What is the difference between the two?
Whatever vote we had before to this one, that is one.
And the previous caller mentioned something about benefits which would not outline not even one.
Could you tell me, based on the two agreements that were signed before, what did we really achieve? And this one that is being revealed as a big revelation of something new. Tell me the difference between those before and this one now. Thank you.
[00:25:27] Speaker C: That would be my concluding question.
We was on the council before.
He is alluding to the fact that this big noise being made that, you know, we back, we on the council now. It's really nothing. Let's downplay it because we was there before. So why is it big? According to him, hullabaloo now. Why not what, what, what we get already and what, you know, I disagree with that approach.
But it's not that we're making a hullabaloo about it. It is news.
All right. We haven't been on the council for quite some time.
We were successful this time as the rotation continues. It's a rotated thing. We probably got 12 months, but Molly says it's usually to two years. But what's different this time as opposed to when it was given to us twice under previous administrations, past sorry administrations.
[00:26:25] Speaker A: Well, the first thing is, you know, I would always say, you know, the more things change is the more things stay the same.
If you look at our experience from 1985, 2002 and now we are entering into 2027, that's when we see when we would be sitting on the console, the United nations struggled with the same question Trinidad and Tobago had to answer. So, for instance, the Iran Iraq War in 1985, then you. The Iran Iraq War, 1985, then 2002, there was the Iraq war. And now again, this, this 2027. We're struggling with the question of Iran and how it's impacting our lives. It's impacting right now the. We have in entering into the second session, a new session of Parliament, there's going to be a supplementation, a new supplementation for its budget.
And you would see that because of what's happening globally, it has impacted our revenue, our revenue streams and what can be predicted down in the future.
So when trail sits and has to respond to these key questions, it's critical that we are there as an opportunity to be able to not only seek our interests, but also how does it impact the region?
I'll give one final example. In 1985, George Chambers had to answer the question about apartheid in South Africa.
And some of us will say, okay, South Africa is so far flung. How does it impact us?
Now this question has come around yet again, but in a different form.
Not about racial inequality in terms of access to political power, but not access to money. And Africa is struggling and wrestling with a question about access to money, to its, to its black population.
And do you know, interestingly, that the US Administration is taking an adverse position concerning Angor, which is a trading agreement that South Africa has with the US And President Trump made it open. He said, there's a need for you guys to arrest an emerging party, which is called the eff, its leader because he sees him as a threat to the white minority. Why am I saying this?
If Trinidad and Tobago doesn't have clarity of its diplomatic identity, some of these security questions will come before us. And though some of us may seem. Well, that's a far flung issue. If you would recall, during the pandemic, it was President Ramaphosa, who is the leader of the ANC party, would have lobbied the African Union to get Covid vaccines for Trinidad and Tobago and it was during a time where the US Was not allowing ventilators, wasn't allowing any medical equipment to leave their country and we require emergency assistance and help came from the African continent.
So what I'm saying is this world is so interconnected.
There are direct, real, lived experiences that can impact the quality of life, our ability to earn, our industry or energy security.
However, I would not be part of the team that says it was historic.
It is not because we have been here before. What is historic is that the United nations is at its lowest ebb. One would never have thought that such a multilateral organization that was designed and is designed to deal with global crises now is dealing with Akash crises.
I'm not going to, you know, belabor that point, but I'm just going to say they don't even have the ability to, to pay their staff. You know, President Trump would have withdrawn from the many of its bodies.
They're in a $2 billion deficit.
Toronto Tobago has signed on to many of the US policies. There's no daylight space between it. But interestingly, now we have to sit in an institution that we have directly or indirectly undermined and now we have to wrestle with a lot of those questions. So what's historic is the state of the United nations and what's historic is what decisions Trinidad and Tobago will make. Because thus far its policy has been one of more bilateral relations with the US and not working through the multilateral organizations that are designed to support small island states.
[00:31:09] Speaker C: Mwali, I want to thank you very much for coming out this morning with me, sharing your insights. It's always a pleasure to chat with you and get some little information. Thank you very much. And again, as we continue to navigate these challenging waters and turbulent wind that is blowing across our society in terms of criminals, criminality, even what we are paying attention to on the geopolitical side of things, economics, the industry of energy and our resources. We'll no doubt chat again in the not too distant future.
So I thank you and for accepting the invitation and we'll talk again soon. Have a good one, buddy.
[00:31:47] Speaker A: Thank you so much and have a good day. To all of you listeners, thank you. The best insight, instant feedback, accountability, the
[00:31:56] Speaker B: all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.
