Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: At this point in time, as I said to you, we do have pretty interesting interview speaking on a topic that we've been grappling with for a long period of time in this country. And here to give us some more information, a special guest, a gentleman who's going to speak to us about navigating anti money laundering in the Caribbean, its author, Ronako Debaucher. Good morning to you. Welcome to our program.
[00:00:55] Speaker C: Good morning. Good morning. Hi. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: It's nice to have you with us here this morning. Let's begin by me allowing you the opportunity to familiarize our listeners with you, tell us a bit about yourself and some of the things that you're involved in.
[00:01:09] Speaker C: Okay, no problem. Yeah. My name is Renaco Duroche. I'm accomplished AML expert. I have a degree in insurance and risk management from the University of the West Indies, as well as international diploma in anti money laundering from the international compliance association. That's on the same level as ECamm's, but it's for the UK and Europe. And I am looking to kick the door open, as I would say, to get opportunities in the EML space because I have the world, this education, and then because I don't have the experience, I'm trying to make a way for myself to get more exposure in the ML space and as well as impart my knowledge that I would have studied for over the years.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: We're talking about navigating anti money laundering in the Caribbean.
Let's begin by explaining to people what is money laundering. I mean, it's a topic that's around you. You may take for granted that everybody understands what money laundering is, but there can be many variances in, in how people launder money and who's probably the people involved in this type of illegal activity. So let's explain to people what is money laundering?
[00:02:37] Speaker C: Okay. So I will give you all explanation as to what our money laundering is, and then we can now figure out how people launder money. All right, so money laundering is the, is the way that's. Sorry, I apologize. Money laundering is the converting of illegally gotten gains. So anything that you armed, that you, anything that you derive value from, from illegal activities, and then you try to convert that cash into legal cash, legal tender. So, for example, you sell a set of drugs, right? You have that cash there. You need to clean that money. You need to pass it through the system, right? So what they will do, they'll break it up into smaller amounts, pass it through the system, and then pull it back out.
[00:03:30] Speaker D: Right.
[00:03:31] Speaker C: Or they may set up shell companies, or they may.
They may kidnap somebody. They get that money. Now they have to find a way to make that money clean, because the banks have a lot of regulation as to how you can get that money inside and then get it back out.
[00:03:48] Speaker D: Right.
[00:03:48] Speaker C: So they have legal limits, which is like, let me say, 14,000. They will break it up into small amounts under that 14,000 so as to not raise the red flags. They would pass it through the system, and then they would take that money and then put it back into the. Into the legal.
Legal market and then use that money going forward.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Is it only a case where you have criminal enterprises engaging in money laundering? Or do you have instances where there are people who are involved in other things that see them having this money, but they can't explain where they get from?
Because when we speak of money laundering, I think people think of a lot of money.
[00:04:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: They don't necessarily think about small amounts and all that. They think about huge amounts of money that need to be laundered.
Do we have in this country?
Or rather, the question should be, how big of a problem do we have when it comes to money laundering?
[00:04:58] Speaker C: Okay, so, in Trinidad and Tobago, based on my research that I did, because I did extensive research on the landscapes of Trinidad and Tobago, as well as the Caribbean, Trinidad and Tobago has a major money laundering problem in that our regulations are not there yet. We recently came off the fat of Greeless, as well as Jamaica came off the fat of Greeless maybe about two weeks ago. That is where we made significant increases in our regional. In our regional policies and procedures that we could. We could say that, you know, we are on a global standard, global scale, but don't think we're there yet.
We usually think about large amounts, but money laundering, by its definition, is any gains that came from illegal means.
[00:05:50] Speaker D: Right.
[00:05:50] Speaker C: While you may not be able to explain where you got the money from, like, let's say, yeah, your tantee have, like, a 10,000 that she hides somewhere.
[00:05:59] Speaker D: Right.
[00:06:00] Speaker C: She will have to explain that to the bank. You know, she did numb. She didn't went outside and robbed somebody and take that money. But money laundering, in its essence, is from illegally gotten gains. And in Chennai and Tobago, we view all crime, all crime, as any. Anytime you got, you get money from all crime. That's considered money laundering. But in other countries, they may have certain crimes that will now have money laundering as the predicate crime that's the underlying crime.
[00:06:34] Speaker B: Right. Okay, I understand what you're saying. So it's two crimes being committed. Number one, you commit a crime to get the money, and then you're committing another crime to wash the money.
We've heard a long period of time that we have an issue with that in this country, and yet still we are not. Even though everybody gets this one involved and that one involved, they tell you off the record, or even in broad terms, we speak of, well, this organization is involved in money laundering. And we forever hear casinos being accused of doing that same in other parts of the world. I don't know about here at home and all those kinds of things, but you said that we don't have the legislation just yet.
[00:07:15] Speaker C: We don't have any legislation just yet. I do think that we reach our level and even international countries around the world.
London is the mecca of money laundering right now, followed by Cayman Islands.
We, as a small country, don't have that level yet. And I don't know if we would ever get to that point. And case in point is if there is. I'm just giving a hypothetical scenario here. If there's $9 billion being laundered around the world, the police, or let's say the people who are now going after the authorities, who are now going after, they would usually find a million dollars. So that you see that disparity there, money laundering, the regimes are not there yet. We need to have people more accepting of the money laundering regimes as we are putting in place. For example, when they do more due diligence with customers, where they ask for more things like, let's say, they ask for your utility address, these are things they are doing due diligence. They're trying to learn you. They can see where you have red flags. And we need to adopt and accept these, um, these changes, because whenever you hear the bank want some new document, people kick off us. But this is the bank trying to learn you and to see where your money is. And then you don't want some fishy happening with your money. You don't want them to flag every single case this way. They would, they could, um. They can now eliminate flagging lower level cases and try to get people who are in the higher level.
[00:08:48] Speaker D: Right.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: So just following the policies and procedures put out by the bank or the financial institutions is a way we as people, just regular people, could go about combating money laundering.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: Well, there are measures in place that frustrate the average individual, because you can't go in bank without a.
With over a certain amount and try to deposit it, you are a full out source of funds declaration and all different kinds of things. And the bank has the authority to say to you, we cannot accept this money.
They can actually say that to you, that we cannot accept this deposit because we don't, or for whatever reason, they don't accept where these sorts of funds come from and all that kind, even though from my understanding, what they supposed to do is they are supposed to take the money and forward the money and forward the documents to whichever organization is responsible for investigating. And if the investigation proves that something is wrong, then the funds are seized and that kind of thing, as opposed to saying, well, here we ain't taking your money. But aside and apart from that, and apart from all the forms that the banks make you fault at this point in time, we have glaring examples where it appears as though the rules apply to everybody. Because we had a man walk in and buy a vehicle in cash for 700 and something thousand dollars.
[00:10:15] Speaker C: That was supposed to be a red flag.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: And then we were told, no, we were told by the authorities that this man was a legitimate businessman.
That's the excuse, well, not the, that's the explanation that we got, that this man was a legitimate businessman. And everybody get up and start, well, what kind of business he in, you know, and all of these kinds of things. And it shows that there are other people who may very well be involved in outright criminality, but they seem to be treated with different rules and regulations when it comes to the financial institutions. And that's something that confuses a lot of people because we have a. I mean, I don't want to go down this road, but we do probably. It's another example. We have an incident where a sitting government minister is accused of depositing money that could not be accounted for, and that the explanation as to where that money came from was debunked and no action was taken against the individual. So apart from these laws and these regulations that you're talking about and all that we have already in place with the financial institutions when it comes to dealing with money laundering, is it a situation where there is individuals who are complicit? Let me put it that way, yeah.
[00:11:37] Speaker C: I see significant deficiencies where that is concerned. Where the top down management, they tend to be a little complicit in doing the wrong things. So that's where we need change from the top.
[00:11:53] Speaker D: Right.
[00:11:53] Speaker C: Um, if the, if the top isn't, um, isn't good, the bottom wouldn't be good either.
[00:11:57] Speaker D: Right.
[00:11:57] Speaker C: As well as if the bottom isn't good either. If there's no solid foundation, there is no arm, there's no top to stand on. Right. But, um. Yes, I see. I see a lot of, um. A lot of instances where. Where that happened.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:13] Speaker C: Um. But what I want to do, right. Is I want to educate people and educate not only, um, the government or the policymakers, right. People in charge to how they can think they can go about. Because something like. Something like somebody buying a kind cash.
[00:12:29] Speaker D: Right.
[00:12:30] Speaker C: That's a red flag. The compliance officer was supposed to flag that with the. With the FIU and do their investigations. But when they reach the FIU, if he paying somebody inside there, this is where we need to have people who are. Who have their hands clean.
[00:12:44] Speaker D: Right.
[00:12:44] Speaker C: And they can do the right thing. The right thing supposed to happen.
[00:12:48] Speaker D: Right.
[00:12:49] Speaker C: And that's what we need in compliance and AML. We need the right people. And that's why you mustn't let the general public know who your compliance officer is. That way they can't be, um. They can't be bribed. That's why they pay compliance officers so high, so they can't be bribed.
[00:13:04] Speaker D: Right.
[00:13:04] Speaker C: So this. These are things that they need to put in place in Trinidad and Tobago. These are the deficiencies I saw that they need to put in place in Trinidad and Tobago to be able to stop these, um. These instances of people bribing these individuals. Because, yeah, we'll have all the rules in place, but then if we have nobody to enforce them, what would happen then?
[00:13:23] Speaker B: Do we have an idea as to how much money is laundered? Or is that something you'll never be able to figure out?
[00:13:30] Speaker C: Money laundering goes really deep. So it's not only money from. From just drugs and smuggling and stuff like that.
[00:13:38] Speaker D: Right.
[00:13:39] Speaker C: There's money from.
From modern day slavery. This is where you take people into different countries, pay them a small amount, something like indentured laborship, and then they would, um. Then they will try to move their money to a different country. They kidnap the people, they keep their arm, their passports, they get them a little bit of money to survive, keep their passports, and then things. So money laundering is entrenched deeply in the criminal activities in Chennai and Tobago. So there's. We can't, um, significantly see how much money is laundered, because if we could detect how much money is laundered, we might as well stop it. You understand? If we get. If we can accurately detect how much money is loaned, that might as well just stop at one time because, yeah.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: We hear those things all the time. Like, people will come up and they'll put forward, well, so much money and this. And I've always thought, if you know how much money stands to reason, you know who doing it as well, because you'd have to have a finger on all these things. Things.
[00:14:36] Speaker C: So even, for example, um, there, we can't even check too much, um, too much on how much the money laundering, because, um, even charitable organizations could be entrenched in money laundering. They tend to pass their money through charities, seeing that those donations. And then it goes to arm Tatars and financing or something else.
You see where I'm coming from. The little man on the street could be working for a drug lord who is selling, um. Who selling hot dogs, per se.
[00:15:05] Speaker D: Right.
[00:15:05] Speaker C: And then they pass in that money through there.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:08] Speaker C: It could be as simple as a raffle sheet.
[00:15:11] Speaker D: Right?
[00:15:11] Speaker C: As a raffle sheet. You're just passing around, you know.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I understand fully what you're saying, and I'll give you a real case here. I know people who work in banks all over the place, and I was having a discussion with a couple of them sometime ago. Are we talking about this very same thing about, you know, people coming with money to the bank and I. And how do you evaluate whether what they're telling you is true or not?
One of the more prevalent.
I don't want to say excuses, but one of the more prevalent reasons given for people having money a large amount and they need to deposit is gambling.
[00:15:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: And when you go to a financial institution, you have set up money because you went to the casino, you went, you play in playwright. Play was a big one. And they go to the teller, and the teller asks, well, where did you get this money?
They say to the teller simply, well, I win our mark.
And I know from, well, speaking to the people in the banking sector who are tellers and all these things, they accept that without any other question.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: Yeah. And then some of the times when they win big earnings, they get a check directly from an LCB. That's a national body. So they wouldn't look at it as money laundering. Another example again, right. Two companies, right. They are owned by the same shadow owner.
[00:16:35] Speaker D: Right.
[00:16:36] Speaker C: One company decides to sue the other. They go to court. They sue.
[00:16:40] Speaker D: Right.
[00:16:42] Speaker C: He. He won the money. You'll just sat. They'll just send across the money through the court. And all the human money is now clean, and it's the same owner owned the two companies. Wherever a shadow owner, you see where money laundering can happen. Now on an even larger scale. Yeah. So money laundering in gambling. Now, when you finish gamble and you get this big amount of money in the casino, so you ask them for some paperwork and you take it to the bank easily.
[00:17:07] Speaker D: Right?
[00:17:08] Speaker C: So we have to be able to. And because casinos and they don't have much monitoring where they can see how much money you come in and how much money you leave them with, because they'll just change all the thing. They don't really monitor people because they want to give people their privacy.
That's where the problems come in.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah. For those of you who may have joined our conversation lately, I was speaking with author Renaco de Roche. And we're talking about navigating anti money laundering in the Caribbean. But there are many other ways in which people could launder money. And I know that real estate is a big one.
[00:17:46] Speaker C: Yes, it is.
[00:17:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Tell us a bit about that.
[00:17:48] Speaker C: Okay, so in real estate, what they will do, they'll buy high value properties, put their money into the. Into the property as much as possible.
[00:17:56] Speaker B: And nobody's checking where the money comes from?
[00:17:58] Speaker C: Nobody's checking where the money is coming from.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:00] Speaker C: Because they will have to find a way. Well, usually they will find a way to buy this property, especially if you're buying from another individual as yourself. You'll just give it to them in cash and then they could do their sign off on stuff like that. Um.
Because these are not regulated.
[00:18:15] Speaker D: Right.
[00:18:16] Speaker C: We need more regulation, especially where selling your house is concerned. Maybe if we are, we set up a castle, a house. Unless you have a real estate agent, you know, something like that, that could probably assist, right? Because you could sell your house tomorrow, give somebody a receipt, and then go through, you know, the proper legal gay, a lawyer to write up something, and you're done, right?
No, I think we need more and more regulatory oversight as well.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: Regulatory oversight. But isn't it a situation where if somebody buys a piece of land or they buy a house or they buy any asset, you, as the person receiving that funds, when you go to the bank, they'll ask you, where did you get this money? And you produce your bill of sale or whatever it is, and that basically clears the money.
Nobody goes back to find out. Well, the person who pay you, where did they get that money from? And it's prevalent. It's all over the place.
[00:19:14] Speaker C: That is where enhanced due diligence comes in. Now, that's another step up. And they don't do that.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: And that's something that should happen.
[00:19:23] Speaker C: That's something that should happen. Enhanced due diligence which is continuous.
It is continuous due diligence over a course of time to make sure that all the person's money is legit.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: But with the present systems in place, if. Let's just say I sell a property and I get $2.5 million for it and I get a check, obviously, nobody got me cash for that kind of money. And I get a check, it means that these people would have had to have this money in our bank somewhere. Yeah, because they can't give me a check, and they don't have the funds to honor the check.
[00:19:55] Speaker C: That is because they already did the. The money laundering process.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:19:59] Speaker C: Yeah. For it to be in the bank and for it to be processed. They already did the money laundering process, which is the integration, getting it into the. Into the bank. The layering, which is covering up the trees, and then the no replacement, which is where they get into the bank, the integrated delayer, and where they change up the way the money is coming from. And then the integration, which is integrating it back into the legal. Legal currency. Now they come in to give you that check, that money, even that money go, and now they can buy whatever they want.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:27] Speaker C: Yeah. So that. That's already laundered already.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: Let me ask your opinion on this. In 2019, in December of 2019, this country, its citizens, many of them, were sent into a tailspin because the administration of the day said we needed to change the $100 bill from the cotton notes to polymer. And in that month, two weeks, or whatever it was, we had a lot of things taking place in this country that I don't think up to today, the authorities were able to monitor properly. You had people purchasing land, people buying car and house and this and that, and they're buying all kinds of things.
[00:21:07] Speaker C: With the old notes.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: With the old notes.
And now somebody would have had the authority to take the old notes based on this receipt that they had from somebody and carry to the banks. We were told that that process was intended at weeding out counterfeiters and all of these other things. Did you think it. Do you think it worked? Did it help us or not?
[00:21:30] Speaker C: Well, for me, honestly, when I saw it happening, I was like, this is a haven for money launders.
They could definitely. I could definitely see where people would now see. I had, like, a thousand on my mattress. Somewhere. Over the course of time, they will break it up into smaller pieces and individual family members to go and do it. See, I saw a problematic something that would have happened at that time.
[00:21:57] Speaker D: Right.
[00:21:58] Speaker C: But now with the. With the new note, they say it's a little safer.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: It's not.
[00:22:03] Speaker C: That's what they say.
[00:22:04] Speaker B: Well, that's what they say.
[00:22:05] Speaker C: Because that's what they say.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: I have, I have seen in numerous business places across this country, small more so, because these, where these counterfeiters go, I see real people have these counterfeit bills stick up and they show you that, well, you know, this is what the counterfeit. You really can't tell the difference.
[00:22:28] Speaker C: You can't tell the difference.
[00:22:29] Speaker B: I know a gentleman who has a very, very small little shop at ten by ten, and he sell kind of little thing, umbrella and this and that and the next and the other. And he was forced to go and buy one of these devices that you check with the uv light because he get a number of these counterfeit.
[00:22:46] Speaker C: You have to remember, right. Criminals are always adapted and they are always getting better because all they do is try to find ways to make more money.
[00:22:56] Speaker D: Right.
[00:22:56] Speaker C: We have other things to do. So we wouldn't have the time to come and like, you know, figure out how to counterfeit. Counterfeit a dollar.
[00:23:03] Speaker D: Right.
[00:23:04] Speaker C: They would know they have time. That way they do it and it would take time. And after a while, nothing is. Nothing remains safe.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And the unfortunate thing with the counterfeiting, even though I know this is counterfeiting, I don't know if that's not money laundering, is it? That's something totally different.
[00:23:18] Speaker C: No, that is any money that is derived from illegally gotten gains, any money that is derived. Remember, counterfeiting money is illegal in Trinidad and Tobago.
[00:23:29] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:30] Speaker D: Right.
[00:23:30] Speaker C: So that is money laundering. Now, you have to clean that money. You switch that money for real money, you pay somebody.
[00:23:38] Speaker D: Right.
[00:23:38] Speaker C: They get back change.
[00:23:39] Speaker D: Right.
[00:23:40] Speaker C: So that's real money. And then that person have the illegal money. When they go to the banquet, they gain catch. They don't know where they get the money from.
[00:23:47] Speaker B: A gentleman called this program and said that he got counterfeit money from the bank and he said that he went back to the bank and they just would not accept it because the chain of command after he left, they don't know. What did the banker say? That they can't account for what transpired after he left. But that's a scary thing.
[00:24:06] Speaker C: Yeah, that is.
[00:24:07] Speaker B: We need to take a couple messages. When we come back, we probably could take a couple of calls. One or two. We're talking with our special guest author, Runa Kodino Roche. And we're talking about navigating anti money laundering in the Caribbean. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
[00:24:21] Speaker E: TIC is back the Trade and Investment Convention July 11 to 13th, 2024 at the center of Excellence, McCoy with 300 boots and 150 plus regional and international buyers, including country missions and representatives of large regional distributors. Business days are 11th and 12th. Consumers are welcome on the 13 July pre register for a free entry at www.ttma.com. tic at the door is $50. Kids are allowed on the 13th only and under twelve years old are free. TIC 2024 is sponsored by Ministry of Trade, ex Im Bank, TSTT, Balroops Group, official media partners, Guardian Media Limited and.
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[00:26:40] Speaker B: Welcome back. Let's take a couple of your calls quickly. 625-2257 hello, good morning.
[00:26:49] Speaker G: Morning Satish. Morning Mister Dubush, Mister Bush. In the year 2020, the SIU flagged $27 billion as money is trying to leave, but they do not know where it came from or where it was going, it would appear. Why is it that they weren't able to seize that money? And secondly, could we be dealing with a situation where these persons consider themselves to be in a high risk situation and prefer not to seize it? Because after they do, there would be no one there to protect them from those elements and listen to your comments.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Thank you for your call.
[00:27:28] Speaker C: Yeah, that's um, that's a touchy subject there, right? Um, I don't have the answer to as to why they didn't seize the arm, the money, right? But what should have happened is a red flag should have been done, right? And they should have, um, they should have launched on a proper investigation.
[00:27:53] Speaker D: Right.
[00:27:54] Speaker C: And then they usually, these things do ever, they do ever tell us anything. As I would say, that's one of the problems with arm, with authorities. They don't give us enough information and they don't explain to us like what they are doing, why they are doing it and what level of the investigation they reach.
[00:28:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:16] Speaker C: It's always strictly confidential, you know, strange.
[00:28:18] Speaker B: Enough though, one of the whipping boys when it comes to money laundering, our casinos and these members clubs and everybody, they are accused of all different kinds of things. But when we have that changeover of money, the casinos were the ones who sat at central bank with their representatives and were able to justify the funds that they had.
[00:28:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: And we had individuals outside of those who we consider to be, quote unquote, contributors not being able. I passed out. I set a money. And not that I'm saying that they were involved in crime. I'm just showing that you had a mechanic, you had people who plan doing all kinds of things with money that they didn't have a paper trail to necessarily justify, but they had huge sums of money. And it just goes to show that regulating the finances in this country is a real tough job. Let's take another call because we're going to have to wrap up just. Hello, good morning.
[00:29:17] Speaker C: Hello.
[00:29:17] Speaker H: Good morning. Satrification. Good morning.
I listen to you guys when you now start the program and you said that there is no money laundering legislation in the country. I just wanted to clear up that for me that is one and two in terms of FIU, the financial intelligence unit is a unit that basically do analysis and create data. That data is then passed on to the ktps. So basically the powers that they have is very limited.
So if for example, Eric was saying that 27 billion of suspicious transaction, what they usually do, they ask you, they collect data and they ask you to explain your source of income, where you are getting that from. If you cannot justify such, the information is calculated and then send to the tcps who lady charges. So the question is whether or not we have to incorporate a separate unit as the FIU. If them the powers give them more teeth so we can see them being more active in terms of seeing more charges. It's less than 1% of persons in this country. -1% I must say is before the courts for money laundering charges. I'm not.
[00:30:20] Speaker C: Well, that's correct. That's correct.
[00:30:22] Speaker D: All right.
[00:30:22] Speaker C: Yeah. Just to clarify, I didn't say that we have no money laundering legislation in China and Tobago. I said we were lacking. And we were behind. As I said, we came off the fat of grey list recently.
[00:30:36] Speaker D: Right?
[00:30:36] Speaker C: So that means we've made significant improvements in our money laundering efforts. Also, um, there is a separate, um, organization that deals with, um. With. With financial crime. It's called the Financial Intelligence Bureau. It's under the ttps. They have the power term to enact these crimes. And that's why I'm seeing.
Yeah, we always hear in people getting reported for money laundering, but then I. They are being arrested or being charged and stuff like that. You're never hearing about it after, and that's one of the biggest issues. And then money London is very hard to pin down and to track so that you can prove who is, um. Who's actually doing what this is.
[00:31:19] Speaker B: We're gonna have to drop the curtains on our interview. Um, it's. It's. It's huge.
This topic of money laundering. We've just scratched the surface on exactly what exists. And we really don't know how bad the problem is. We've been told of an underground or a black market economy that continues to prop us up in very many instances.
You're an author. Tell us about your book.
[00:31:46] Speaker C: Okay, so my book is EML compass navigated anti money laundering in the Caribbean. My book has a lot of cases, Caribbean based. What happened is I got. When I was doing my studies for money laundering, I couldn't find any literature on the Caribbean, so I decided to write my own. I realized that I couldn't get a job in the market. I decided to kick the door open and write a book and get there myself. So I hope if anybody is hearing out there, you can get my book on Amazon. I'm also organizing within the next couple of weeks to have my books on distributions in different bookstores. So you can get it there.
[00:32:24] Speaker B: We're going to have to leave it here this morning. Thank you for being with us.
[00:32:27] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new talk radio Freedom 106.5.
