SOCIAL MEDIA IN THE WORK PLACE.

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, Instant feedback, Accountability the all new talk radio freedom 106.5 as. [00:00:09] Speaker B: We continue our discussions this morning on a broader scale of topics, we are here with Dr. Steven Shepherd. Good morning to you. Dr. Steven shepherd is electoral a lecturer at Arthur Logjack School of Studies. Good morning to you sir. Good morning and thank you very much for joining us this morning. So much is happening on the world of school and education in Trinidad and Tobago today. I want to kick things off by asking you your thoughts as it relates to social media. Recently it was advocated for teachers to get social media pages, have a social media thumbprint, as it were, to be able to ascertain what their students are doing, get a handle on things. How do you feel about this? As a educated luminary in society? How do you feel about teachers having to do this? [00:01:00] Speaker A: Okay, there are positives and negatives. Social media will be here with us for a long time. It will actually become more sophisticated. It's the world we are living in. And if we have to train our students to live in this world, then social media has to be part of that education. The challenge is responsible use of social media. There are some aspects of social media that are negative, but there are many, many aspects that are extremely positive. So from an education point of view, what we should do is train or teach students to discern the difference. Teach them how to use social media responsibly, teach them how to use social media for their schoolwork. Now the new thing is artificial intelligence. Initially there was a big scare about artificial intelligence and education. In some cases it was banned. Now universities and higher education institutions and schools worldwide are using artificial intelligence in an ethical manner, using it to enhance their education. I saw this week the University of Ohio is mandating that all students will use artificial intelligence in the year of specialty. So we have to embrace the emergent technology, but we have to use it responsibly. If we don't, you know, we'll be left behind. [00:02:25] Speaker B: Now that speaks to the pros and cons of the social media platforms, as it were. AI as it were. But putting that responsibility on lecturers and teachers to have these active presence on the social media platforms. What do you think are the pros and cons of teachers doing this? Especially in a primary school level where some primary school teachers, you know, they're teaching all these subjects and they had to correct, especially like prep 45 where they're dealing with SCA exams, the early form ones up to 5, they know they're dealing with relatively wide amount of Students and covering a wide coverage of the academic, as it were. How is social media monitoring fit into that where they have to monitor? Because most of the things that students want to do they put on social media, they posted on Facebook, on Instagram and these things. How are teachers to get now actively monitoring these things while still having to complete the academic in front of them? [00:03:26] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it's not really up to the teachers to monitor the students social media activity. And that's why I started with the responsibilities of social media. So it starts in the home. Before social media, there were other types of media, there were other ways of communication, and there was always a requirement for parents to teach their children responsibility. Similarly, in the social media environment, you have to teach responsibility. So social media and computers and phones and laptops and iPads and all the other pads have to be incorporated into education. So teachers need to be trained in how to do it and students need to be trained how to use those tools and devices. So one teacher cannot monitor every single thing a child wishes to do on social media. So therefore the onus is always on responsible use, similar to how a teacher cannot monitor what a child will do on the way home in a maxi or walking from, let's say uptown Porters pin to downtown. It's really infusing the responsibility and the rest will take care of itself. [00:04:36] Speaker B: Okay, so as we look at these social media devices, as you just rightfully mentioned, you have been doing this for a number of years. You are a lecturer, you have been in the education space for quite some time and you would have interacted with young adults and at some point in your career, I would imagine you would have chatted with parents. What are your recommendation and thoughts as the children who are caught using these devices for, you know, other things other than school work because you know, it's at their fingertips. Should parents, Are you recommending parents to solely ban children from these devices for extended period of time or should they be monitored thereafter but still be allowed to be on these devices? What are your thoughts on this? [00:05:18] Speaker A: Well, the children need to be taught or explained what is good, what is bad. I don't recommend banning at all. To ban someone from using devices from using social media is similar to going back to the days of the lites in England when machines were first introduced and people protested against machines and they thought the machines will take their job. We are seeing similar types of protests, but if we take that road, we will be going backward. As always, it's really about teaching and training the responsibility, responsibilities. Now there are Some sites who definitely don't want people to go to and organizations and schools use firewalls to prevent access to those sites. The danger in unrestricted use of social media is things like phishing, introducing viruses and malware to networks in schools and organizations. So you don't want unrestricted use to access to any single site. But there are some very useful sites. The common ones, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and so on. They can be used for good, they can be used for bad. So the onus always is let us use it for good. [00:06:38] Speaker B: So the onus is always to teach them. Now, I mean, you have with such a diverse and impactful career, one has to wonder what keeps you inspired every morning when you wake up and get out there to lead, what are some of the inspirations? And I'm only asking you this question as we have other educated luminaries that also listens as well. Maybe you can bestow some information that can keep them that fuel that is necessary to get into those classrooms. [00:07:02] Speaker A: Yeah, so when I teach, and I teach at a master's level right now, and I worry sometimes about what students don't know about Trinidad and Tobago and in class I'll tell them, take out your phone, your laptop, Google this, check this out, listen to it, read what it says. And I incorporate the devices into teaching. Recently, for example, I had to tell a young lady, just Google Jim Crow laws and read to the class what it says. Recently I had to tell a guy, just Google a calypso telco poops for the class. There's a, there's a lot of TR Tobago that people do not know. So let us use the devices in the workplace. For example, you can use social media to solve problems in a very, very short time. There's some problem, youngsters are connected, they'll go onto their social media, whichever platform, send the problem out to their crew and within 5, 10, 15 minutes the answers come back, problem solved. That will normally cost the company 50, $100,000 in consulting. A youngster solves it using his connections on social media anywhere in the world. So there are immense benefits. So I don't support banning it or restricting it at all. I just support the responsible use of the various social media platforms. [00:08:24] Speaker B: Now, when we deal with AI, how as lecturers like yourself, I mean, you just mentioned a very good example. You went back to telco poops. A lot of persons will be questioning right now, what is that? Telco. But it's there. You mentioned the incorporation of AI into the classrooms. Now you teach on a master's level. But I want to bring you back a little bit to the primary and secondary levels. We are experiencing numerous problems. You know, what are some suggestions you can bestow towards tutors like yourself and parents in terms of prepping children for exams that they have to deal with Now? We had the SCA that recently went concluded and of course CXE is currently on the docket right now. Children are actually doing exams. What are some of your recommendations for parents who have to grapple with students that have a sense of indiscipline as it relates to studying and prepping for these exams? [00:09:17] Speaker A: Right, so what I observed is the inappropriate use of generative artificial intelligence. People using artificial intelligence to write their essays and term projects. That is not good. They can and should use artificial intelligence to frame projects, to understand what they are doing, to give them some ideas to lead on, but they should really grapple with the issues themselves to develop their own brains. Similarly, before AI, you had Google and all the other search engines and you could have found anything on the Internet. We have to discern what is good, what is not good. Not everything artificial intelligence gives you is correct. You still need to double check. But what we should do is not use it to pass it off as our own work. That's another form of academic dishonesty or plagiarism was the word used before dishonesty. [00:10:16] Speaker B: And I'm happy you mentioned that. Go ahead. Because I was getting to that. [00:10:19] Speaker A: So let's call this academic dishonesty because it's not your work. All you did is put a prompt in and the thing generated some text and you're passing this off now as your work. So if you get your academic qualifications using that means, when you go out into the workplace, you will not be able to do what your certificate says you've been trained to do. And that's the downfall. [00:10:42] Speaker B: Do you think that we have a serious, serious hindrance here with, especially on a master's level where persons are writing their thesis, they are doing their research work and presenting these things to lecturers and examiners. How are they able to differentiate if this is from the learning individual themselves or not? A replica of something that chat GPT would have spewed out to them if they're not in the capable of putting across this information in their own words? [00:11:11] Speaker A: Well, there is software that checks for the use of artificial intelligence quickly in maybe a second. There's also software that checks for the use of humanizing software, which is software that masks the use of artificial intelligence. So you could use the AI to write something, then you could use a humanizing software to make it appear as if a human being wrote it. They reached that level. So there's software now to check for humanizing software. But at the tertiary level, what is normal now is for pence of your work. So even if somebody writes something, it looks very good, have them speak about it. And if they did not do the work themselves, the deficiencies will quickly appear. Which is why at the PhD level, you have something called an oral defense. An oral defense helps the examiner to determine that this is your authentic work. No one wrote this thesis for you. At the master's level it's also common. Perhaps we have to do that at the bachelor's level and who knows, maybe even at a secondary school level from now on or sometime in the future, just to establish authenticity to ensure people can think and present their ideas for themselves. We have to come to that. [00:12:33] Speaker B: I'm happy that you mentioned that. I think it should be incorporated in part of the syllabus and curriculum when it comes to school and examiners, especially within the classroom, because as we rightfully say, they are humanized apps and software out there that will take the AI generated response and put the human touch state, especially in some instances, the language in which you speak. Because as teachers, I would imagine as a lecturer you would be familiar with your students writing pattern, their style, the language that they would say things in. And if you get something that is purportedly different, it can spark AI interference on that level. Now, I know you had some affiliations as well with Tobago tourism and the national development. I mean with your role, it was deeply connected to the future of Tobago's education in the tourism sectors. So how do you see education contributing to sustainable, maybe tourism development and other economic development on or within Trinidad and Tobago? [00:13:37] Speaker A: Well, I keep saying Trinidad and Tobago has the brain power to do literally anything it wants. What we need to do is to harness that brain power and use it in the right way. If you go anywhere in this world, any major corporation, any university, you will find someone from Toronto. Bago, we're not lacking the brain power. What we probably lacking the policies or the ecosystem to put that brain power to work for our own country. And if you can get that going, that's fine. And my other thing we. The other thing I think we have to overcome is the ability or maybe inability to think. So we are well educated, we are well learned, but we still do not think critically, sufficiently. If we do, we will be able to solve lots of our problems. So if it's one recommendation I'd like to make to our education system. Put a little more emphasis on critical thinking. It's already there in many areas, but I just think we need some more. And you'll find in a relatively short time, we'll have a changed society. People who are not doing things by route, but doing things because it makes sense and they've thought it through. And we'll have solutions that fit problems. [00:14:55] Speaker B: Okay, let's take a quick call. Good morning. [00:14:59] Speaker C: Morning, baby. Morning. Day again. I am. I think AI is a wonderful tool. However, any tool could be misused by human beings. For instance, AI models have already started to rewrite their own code and disobey human instructions to shut down. And this is where legislation comes in to produce AI to do something where an inverted command is called alignment, where they do as the humans tell them to do. And Elon Musk warned against OpenAI because he said that there could be catastrophic things. You know, if it's go unchecked, it's going to be horrible for mankind. And is it possible I could get this gentleman's contact number off air? [00:15:54] Speaker B: Certainly. Send me a WhatsApp on 3061065 with your name and so forth, and I will have the gentleman. We'll have that information passed to you. Thank you very much for your call. You know, and he made a very good point about AI and the fact that it has reached a stage where it's thinking. It appears to be thinking for itself. But, you know, I say this to my. I have two sons, and I recently told them that AI. Cause my youngest son, Dr. Shepherd, was worried about AI's intervention in the world on a whole, the machines taking over. I mean, we grew up in the terminator age, where Terminator 2. You remember those with Arnold Schwarzenegger? [00:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. [00:16:35] Speaker B: We grew up in that era where the machines are rising, so to speak. And my youngest son was worried about it, and he mentioned it to me. And I told him I drew a number line and I wrote some numbers and I left out at least three digits. And people don't realize this, that a calculator was the first AI instrument this world knew. One of the prehistoric AI instruments, a calculator, being able to put in numbers or put in an equation and have it spit out an answer to you that is very, very accurate. So I told him, I said, this calculator, the instructions were written and given with digits 1 from 0 to 9. So he said, what about the rest of them? I said, zero to nine will give you Any number you can think about on this planet, zero one straight to nine. In the absence of three, four and six, whatever information you put into the calculator will give you inaccurate information because those numbers are absent. So similarly with artificial intelligence, it is, it basically spits out what human would have written into the software. Let me take this call quick, before we continue. Hello. Good morning. [00:17:49] Speaker D: Good morning, Davy. [00:17:50] Speaker B: Good morning. [00:17:51] Speaker D: And to your honorable guest. How would AI work in situations that are emotional or in a contextual situation? How will that work? Thank you. [00:18:03] Speaker B: All right, Dr. Shepherd. [00:18:05] Speaker A: Well, the thing is, the Chinese especially have already developed robots that can mimic human emotion and human expression because they are so trained. Now remember, as humans, the brightest of us only use maybe 7, 8, 9, 10% of our brains. And these AI, they run on supercomputers that harness they intelligence and the speed at which they work. They can mimic or simulate what a human being is likely to do given this stimulus. So you go to some airports, like recently, a couple years ago, I was in the airport in Dubai. And it's robots everywhere in the airport giving you instructions, telling you what to do. You ask them questions, they answer in any language. So the thing is moving ahead in a really, really quick manner. However, the humans, this is just my belief, I could be totally wrong because of our brain power. We are our brain. Any person is actually better than the best supercomputer because we haven't yet explored the limits of our brain power. So I don't have too much fear, although I know there is quite a lot of concern about where AI is heading. My concern that the first caller is a point about legislation. And in many countries, including San Tobago, our legislation tends to be several years behind the advancement of technology. So we need to speed up the legislative agenda to ensure that we have the laws in place to deal with the technology that is confronting us. And we should be getting somewhere when that happens. But on the issue of emotion, while the AI interface may appear to be giving you an emotional response, remember it's still a contrived emotion. It's not a genuine human being. [00:20:14] Speaker B: When we look at it. I'm very happy that you were able to mention that you was in Dubai and what we see happening in those parts of the world because right here in the Caribbean we find ourselves in a position where AI interface works seamlessly and carries us through under the watchful eye. Of course, I'm talking about the immigration process in countries like Jamaica, Barbados, but we still have to go through a paper process here in Trinidad. So I do understand the circumstances surrounding it. But let me get to this question to you as we quickly get to the top of the hour here. I mean, in your view, how can we better prepare our Caribbean graduate students to become globally competitive leaders in business and education? What are your thoughts on that? [00:20:58] Speaker A: Well, they are already prepared for that. How can we further it? Yeah, as I said earlier, we have some of the best students and the best graduates in the world. Right. But we need to the key and I, I see again, the key is critical thinking. We need to continue our interaction with technology. People need to check the news every day. They need to have. Because the technology now allows interface with people anywhere in the world in real time. So in the primary school, secondary schools, the tertiary education institutions, they need to connect with institutions in other parts of the world. England, Australia, Canada, Russia, European countries. So as students, they are aware of what is happening with their peers in different societies. And we move ahead at the same pace. If we only fall back in any aspect of the technology, any aspect of the learning, any aspect of the thinking, that is where we'll run into problems. But any parent will tell you when their child goes to the US, Canada, England, Australia, they excel for the most part. So I keep saying we do. We are not lacking for brain power. We have the ability, it's just to harness that brain power and use it in the right way. [00:22:15] Speaker B: I know you come up, you are on the bachelor's level or tertiary level when it comes to lectures and education right now, and I must congratulate you on that. But can you share any thoughts to your colleagues on the lower level such as the especially in the secondary forum where they are experiencing a measure of indiscipline when it comes to students and their behavior in schools these days, we see it on the social media. If you are to lend some advice to the educators in these forums, what would you say to them in terms of best practice in treating and dealing with students who are hell bent on being disruptive in the classrooms? [00:23:01] Speaker A: So one of the things schools should mandate is active participation in extracurricular and co curricular activities that goes a long way and helps students to learn the lessons from football, cricket, acting, singing, music, whichever. And once the teachers and the school maintains an environment of discipline, then the students will fall into place. You will still have a couple outliers and there are established processes for treating with them what is needed very much in the secondary school and primary school, the guidance counselors and the social workers in the correct ratios to students. It is near impossible for one guidance Counselor to handle four schools, in fact, you may need two per school or three per school. There is an established ratio of those support professionals to students. So we should really try to ensure that those ratios are established and maintained. And we will find that the disciplinary problems will reduce, they will not disappear. Because we have a lot of issues in homes. We have a society that has some problems. But in spite of those problems, people can succeed if they have the correct support. So I strongly recommend that we re examine how we deploy the support systems within the schools, ensure that the numbers are there so people can study and succeed in spite of whatever personal challenges they may have. [00:24:41] Speaker B: And I want to thank you for that because more oftentimes than not we have one guidance counselor to the school, one dean of discipline on a block. And we have a school that totaling 2,500 students. So I'm very happy to hear you make those recommendations. And that's the thought in which you wish the Ministry to be directed towards. I have a call on the line. Hello, good morning. [00:25:00] Speaker D: Yeah, again to your guest there. I have always advocated social workers, pediatricians, clinical psychologists, nurses in our schools because these children need help. What this lecture is saying, you may have your class, but we need to have also you can have a social worker with four primary school and two secondary school. That's impossible. So we have to look now at these things to put in our schools to save our children. And I'm glad the lecturer, this lecturer is making the point again. We need these type of pray in our school to protect our children, to help them to develop. We are not seeing that. We want to put all the blame, jail them, lock them up on all these things. But we got to start there. The Shirani has. Thank you, Mr. Lecter. [00:25:53] Speaker B: Thank you, thank you, thank you very much. I mean you did make that point. And I think he was speaking on the, on the levels as to what our honorable Prime Minister was alluding to in some earlier articles following some debacles that took place at schools where children were absolutely violent, even towards teachers at the secondary schools. And recently we had girls in a pre planned attack against another female student. The Prime Minister act. Well, she. Well, I wouldn't say she lashed out, but she made some very, very stern pronouncements as the plans ahead in terms of expelling students from disrupting classes, which I have no choice but to agree with because these ones are preventing the others that are willing to learn by instilling fear and the bullying. And they are also committing very, very aggressive and violent crimes on Par with what adults are, you know, would quote, unquote, do. So there she did make the mention that. Expel these students, arrest them and prosecute them to the full extent of the law. Now, when we move forward. Dr. Shepherd with you this morning. Let's have another call, but I wanted to ask you about the curriculum. Hello. Good morning. [00:27:10] Speaker C: Good morning. [00:27:11] Speaker B: Good morning. [00:27:12] Speaker C: I'm glad you take my call because I recently joined three programs, but enough to understand where the discussion is going. So I want to. There are limitations where guidance counselors are concerned because you just have a bare amount too with students, and then you leave. But that's our talk. Is it enough to inspire truth and for that student to be always aware that I need to consciously move to change my behavior? What. What are you saying to that student that would really inspire him or her to be different? And it's just a dialogue. It's not a activity, you know. So there are limitations where guidance. Then at what point are these guidance intervene? The latter stages, when it's too late. If you're not there early enough, then you know much of what you're trying to do it can't accomplish because of classroom, of course. Secondly. Secondly, we always advocate for delinquent students to engage in some sort of sport. Right. Now, I've been told that one of the reasons for that is in sport, naturally you enjoy sports and naturally you want to abide by the rules. A lot of indiscipline. A lot of the indiscipline comes from non conformity to rules and regulations. So when you engage in sport, you develop this natural will to want to abide by rules and regulation. So, yeah, don't underestimate the value of the engagement in extracurricular activities. And lastly, Davy, to your guests. We need to reshape our education system from the kindergarten stage. Looking at the finished model, the first year of these happiest countries in the world model, the Japanese model, where we learn basic interaction, we learn life, proper morals and values, mutual respect, honesty, learn how to lose. Learn that just because we have a difference of opinion, neither is right nor wrong. It is just a perspective. Yeah, so I listen to the comments off air. [00:29:49] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:29:49] Speaker B: Thank you. Dr. Shepherd, you wish to respond on anything pertaining to what the caller said? [00:29:54] Speaker A: Well, a couple. One is that we have a different history from many other countries in the world, and therefore we have to develop an education system that takes us forward from where we came from to where we need to be. A danger is adopting a foreign education system that is ill suited to us. The other one is the guidance constant. Social workers are not magicians. They provide support. In many cases, they have to go right into the homes of the students. And I think what the caller went to, he missed a point, but he kind of touched on it as parenting. If we teach parenting from the beginning, a lot of the problems the guidance counselors and social workers have to deal with will not emerge. So people need to learn in a formal way how to be good parents, good mother, father. And you will find that the children will not have those behavioral problems. But the problems that you mentioned that the prime minister responded to are children mimicking what takes place in their environment, what takes place, you know, where they live and maybe what takes place in their homes also. So again, I go back to the parenting. If we do that and we're able to reorder the society, the problems will not disappear, but they'll certainly be reduced. [00:31:25] Speaker B: Yeah, indeed. So let me ask you a question as it relates and I thank you very much for your response. As parents need to take proactive approach and get a handle on their children and not pass that on to the lecturers and teachers at the learned institutions. Let me take this call quickly before I ask my question. Hello. Good morning. All right, so we lost those two calls there. So let me ask you this. When it comes down to the curriculum in schools at the moment, what recommendations or changes do you think are absolutely necessary as we move forward to first world status? Now, the caller was, that last caller was speaking on the issue of other countries. Now we see in Trinidad and Tobago, as opposed to persons in the Japan and Chinese culture, even in the American standard of things, they are more in terms it's a practical. So they teach children from an early age. I saw a training session with people learning to swim and they pick up a baby, a toddler, and throw it in the pool. They show the toddler what to do. The toddler was watching and they throw the child in the pool. No mother in the good sense in Trinidad and doing that. But I saw that on a training session on social media. And guess what? The toddler pulled through. Now, of course, the parent was there, the, the swimming instructor was there and everybody's looking. But they demonstrated it in front of the toddler first while the toddler is watching, and then they throw the child in the pool. I don't think no good parent doing that, but it speaks to the child learning to swim. And I looked at this baby and I was amazed. I had to watch the video about five times. So I'm saying we are hell bent in this Westminster atmosphere of academics. A lot of it is heavy on academics and very, very minuscule when it comes to practicality in the learning institution. What recommendations do you think need to be had at this time in terms of revisiting the curriculum for students starting from infants to the tertiary level part of the education? [00:33:24] Speaker A: Right. So you mentioned Westminster and the challenges that we have adopted this classical British education system and scared to let go of it for whatever reason. So what happens is that we teach people facts and ask them to regurgitate it in examinations. And I go back to the critical thinking. So a couple years ago I was at the University of Toronto and Tobago and I asked a professor who was in charge of education, why do people go to Oxford and Cambridge and study weird things like Greek mythology and music history, and yet they end up being a prime minister and be people in finance and so on? And she said, what you learn in those universities does not matter. It is how you learn that matters. What they primarily teach you to do is think. Yeah. So if we focus more on thinking rather than retaining and regurgitating facts, we will do well. So ask, encourage students to question, why does this happen? Rather than one on one is two two and two is four. And just giving her the answer, why is two on two four? Because why does the sunrise. [00:34:39] Speaker B: That's good, you know, and I hear you, because even the modern way of teaching, I teach my children or my son to spell the word, remember it and go and regurgitate it. [00:34:50] Speaker A: Yeah. That's the old way of doing it. [00:34:51] Speaker B: His mother will teach him to pronounce it and be able to identify it. I have, I've observed her, I have observed her in a different way of teaching our children, our sons. And I realized I couldn't, I, I don't have the patience. One and I, I can't do it that way. I never, I mean, I, I couldn't. [00:35:09] Speaker A: That's how you were taught. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Right. So I will teach him if I like pick him up in his spellings, she said, I will just go through the spellings, learn to spell the word, spell, drive, D, R, I, V, E. Spell it again three times. Okay. Onto the next word, come back, spell that. And they learn to spell it. They remember it and they go to school. But she picked, she's doing it now and she's doing it in a different way to pronounce the different syllables, be able to identify it. And I look back and I say, wow. So even the teaching style is different. So I mean I wonder oftentimes if we need to move away from this, as you mentioned, English style of academic force down the throat with very little practical being taught of. And as you mentioned, critical thinking. Critical thinking, why? Why the Sundis rise? Why when you add two plus two years, get four, you know these type of things. [00:36:01] Speaker A: So you are in that studio, there's a microphone in front of. You have consoles, you have air conditioning with computers. [00:36:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:06] Speaker A: Which one of them was made in Tobago or in the Caribbean? Not one exactly. But they were made in countries where people were taught to think. [00:36:17] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:36:18] Speaker A: So if we teach our students to think those that equipment can be made in our country or in Barbados or Jamaica or Ghana or something like that. And we need to focus going forward. And I said we have the ability on producing items for export that can be transmitted. I'm sure on your phone you have many apps, many. But those apps were not made in Trinidad and Tobago or in Barbados or Grenada or Saint Lucia. But some of them are made by people from Trinidad and Tobago in other countries. And that touchscreen on your phone, if you have a smartphone, was developed by a Trinidad and who went to Fatima College. Wow. He worked. He did. He developed it when he worked at Corning Glass. I know him very well. So I keep saying we have the ability, let us use it, let us focus. If it's one single thing I recommend for the our curriculum and education transformation is to focus it more on critical thinking and we will do well going forward. [00:37:28] Speaker B: You know, I. [00:37:29] Speaker A: Yes, there are some basics to be learned, maths and English and languages and so on, but it doesn't matter what you learn. Infuse critical thinking into every single subject and we will do well. [00:37:41] Speaker B: Dr. Steven Shepherd, I want to thank you very much for chatting with me this morning. [00:37:47] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability, the all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5.