Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're tuned into the all new freedom 106.5. 106.5.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Dawn, good morning to you, my darling. How is Jamaica?
[00:00:09] Speaker C: Good morning, David. Jamaica is amazing. How are you?
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Well, it's good that you can say that. I mean, we didn't reach the anniversary of the hurricane yet that passed through the island, but you guys are thriving.
Well, rebuilding quite nicely. And I've been monitoring. You know, I don't want to get too saddened by it because I, I saw the, the devastating images. But I'm happy that you're still able to be with us this morning and your friends, families and everybody is in good spirits and all is well.
[00:00:39] Speaker C: Yeah, we are. I give thanks for that. You know, the blessing of being a Jamaican or maybe a Caribbean person is our level of resilience.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Amen.
[00:00:49] Speaker C: And I am absolutely grateful for that. We are a resilient people.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Dawn, the last time we spoke on the rumble, that conversation spilled over into the overdrive that same day one week ago.
And we talked about non negotiables when it comes to boundaries that men fail to set.
This week we're talking about the cost of weak boundaries for men, what that means.
First of all, let's establish what these, what is the expectation of boundaries?
And I talk in broader. I know every man will have their own, but you know, some of the generic boundaries that men ought to set when they get themselves involved in romantic relationships with persons.
[00:01:48] Speaker C: You know, before I even get there, Devi, I just want the listeners to understand that I'm a woman speaking from the knowledge of the men that I would have worked with. I know sometimes persons question how can a woman speak in the space of a man.
So when I speak, it's from the experiences that my clients would have shared with me and from my lived experience, you know, dating and, you know, having male in my family. And so I think one of the biggest thing for men is respect.
And when you don't set clear boundaries as to what respect mean for you, it later haunts you.
That's the biggest cry for many men. They don't feel respected. So whereas women want to feel loved, men want, want to feel respected.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: The difference with a man staying quiet when his respect is being eroded versus a woman who will speak up, who will act out when her, as you mentioned, she wants to that feeling of love that she interprets supposed to be for her, her version of her interpretation of the love without communicating.
She may have had this fantasy in her mind from a movie, a friend, a colleague at work, somebody Talking what love is supposed to be. So she has this whole fictional idea. I don't want to use. I use the word fictional loosely because it could be a real. A reality to her. She has this notion in her mind what this love is supposed to look like. And when she doesn't get it, she acts out and she is seen as. Oh, my gosh, no. Where is the emotional empathy as a man, you know, she's. She's right. She needs this.
But when a man acts out because he is feeling emotionally depressed, emotion, respectfully drained and all these things, he is seen as hard and oppressive. And you feel you, she, Father, you demanding respect and putting on your. You see, father. That is the kind of conversations. Let's identify the differences between both and why it shouldn't be.
And all is on equal playing field.
[00:04:05] Speaker C: All right, let me first start with the space of men. I think our Caribbean culture has nurtured our men not to speak and not to express their emotion because it deems weakness or they're wicked. You know, it's. Men are supposed to just do and be silent. Unfortunately, that is a culture that we bought into.
So many men suppress their emotions. It doesn't even matter what they're feeling. They suppress it. Last week we spoke about why the suicide rate for men are so much higher than women. Because women will talk. We have a space to. We will talk. We will just get up and call our girlfriends. Men were socialized that if you express your vulnerability, it deems you weak. But, David, I hope that we can shift that narrative because it is.
It takes a very strong man to express his vulnerability, knowing very well that he might be ridiculed for it. And so many times that's why men do not express what they're feeling. Now, we do not want you to express in anger. We still want you to express in calm and also in respect and love. Right? So I think sometimes when women retaliate, it's because a man has suppressed for so long that when something is going wrong with him, he just. He just bursts. So it might come out the wrong way. And now it might be he's angry or he's trying, just like you said earlier. Are you my father? It might show up differently. I think one of the things that persons need to do differently now that we're. We have these opportunities, we have these spaces, we have these communities where we're having these conversations is to check where you are in your relationship and listen. How do we change the narrative? How do we change the communication?
People need to start Communicating more and communicating better when you're upset is not the best time to start lashing out. Oh well, I didn't, I felt this way and you didn't do this and no, you wait until there's a sense of calm and you now said, you know what?
I do not like when you do this. I've spoken about it before and nothing is done.
David, if that person love you, she is going to reciprocate. She is going to respond in a loving manner. She is going to lean in to hear exactly what it is and to understand what you're saying.
[00:06:44] Speaker B: Listen, Adon, that was the statement that rattled men friends who I told tap into the program and take a listen. You made mention that and you said it again.
If she loves you, she would tap into that narrative. She would listen not to respond, but to understand.
And when Carlos and I brought it brutally bitter to you about situations, you said, well, clearly she does not love you.
Listen, the amount of phone calls I got after and messages and it's like men got an eye opener that, listen, I've been complaining about this. Does my wife even love me? Boy.
And that had men, some fellow, some brethren's of mine, just in a state of bewilderment because it's like I am by the football field and we're having a discussion and I'm like, wow, this is really, this is really being talked about.
So the price that men pay for going silent to maintain peace in the home, what is that price? What eventually happens when a man goes silent on his negotiables, his barriers, his boundaries, just for the sake of peace? Because if I speak about this, she gets angry. I don't want her to be angry because that anger could last for a week, two weeks, three weeks. And if I do dog and beg and oh gosh, babe, Serena, it ain't coming down.
It a coming down.
Answer me that one first before I give you the next scenario.
[00:08:30] Speaker C: Men lose themselves. Who do you become when you're silent?
Are you being David Murray? Are you acting in your full capacity? Are you acting in your true authentic self when you are silenced?
And you know, David, here's something that I also want to say because I also don't want women to think that I'm beating up on them. I'm a woman and God knows I have suffered at the hands of men. Okay, I will be the first to say, say that now.
For years, for centuries, black women have been put in a position where they have to do it all for themselves.
For, for centuries, black, Black Women have been abused emotionally, sexually, physically, and still have to take care of the children and still have to, you know, do all these things. And it shouldn't be so. It shouldn't be that those traumas have shaped who we are and how we show up in relationship.
But for our men out there that are silenced, I think the question I would like them to ask, why is this woman showing up like this? It is not the, it is not the normal nature of a woman to get up and be bitter and angry. It's not. We are nurturers. God has blessed us Navy Davy with the ability to bring life and to love. So when a woman is not acting in that capacity, what is happening? And so to the women, let us heal those traumas that are hurting us because they are dictating how we are showing up. A lot of women are in defense mode.
They are in defense mode because somebody broke them before and they're not giving anybody else the chance. But being in that mode, you're not living.
You're not living. And so again, it goes back to, let's say two people are married. Now can we get to the place where a man said, honey, what are those things that are truly hurting you? Why do you really show up like this?
And if that woman really, really wants this relationship? Because a lot of time we take it for granted. A lot of time we take it for granted until we get a wake up call. Just couple weeks ago, I think I mentioned it. I was having a conversation with a client and she said to me, black women were not trained how to love a man.
She's at the verge of losing a good man. This is out of her mouth. He's a good man. Good man. I took him for granted. It was always what I want. Every decision has to be based on what she thinks.
Now this man has awakened and he's like, no, you're not going to disrespect me like this anymore. I rather leave and allow somebody who will see my value and treat me the way I ought to be treated. Now she's crying. He doesn't even want therapy anymore because for the last three years he's been in therapy because trying to tell you to see how hurting you are hurting him. She's just being strong. You marry me strong. You know, I was strong and she wouldn't bend. Until now he decides he want her out. Ladies, let that not be our reality.
It's not justification for men to get up and abuse and misuse women. We're saying there are some good Men out there trying to do good. These are the men that I'm saying. Listen to them, hear what he is saying and how can we adjust? I love my children. If something is wrong with them, I am going to go above and beyond to try to make that right. I think we need to start looking at our relationships that way. Are we willing to go above and beyond to make it right?
[00:12:32] Speaker B: Recently I had a conversation with a friend about two days ago and what he was saying is that they have some tension and then it was quelled, they got back in, all was good and then he made a decision. He said he went out, he was supposed to just go down the road and within an hour or two be back.
He told her he stopped by a Breadwin house, now that Brethren house. When he stopped by that man, his kyard playing his vibes, he ain't reaching my hand because he's older. He sit down there, he retired all of them. So his cat playing, you know. So the little half hour stop turned into almost the whole day just there, one game after the next, taking a drink, they eat something, they're going again.
She admitted to her girlfriend she knows from the time he go there to sit down, he ain't coming here. Now she admitted that, however, she got angry at the fact that he didn't come right away. You know, he stayed on there and five, six hours later she called in his phone here, Gayla coming nowhere she's hearing, but he's still there playing deep in her game, playing still. However he reached home and when he reach him now, well, she's upset.
As he described it, crossover. She mouth by the door and cross inside.
But that upsetness persisted for a month.
Even though he was saying, I'm sorry, you know, I wrong. Yeah, sorry, just liming with the boys. Oh gosh, girl, I was stressed out whole week. I was working, ting, ting, ting, get my little blinder. She didn't want to hear him. So guess what happens.
He obviously started getting upset. Now he's now in a state where, look, every time he come from work, it's tension, it's tension, it's tension.
So he's that lime in a little more. Now we just decide, look, you don't. He goes home a little later because it's just like, I finished work, better take a drink. So now she starts complaining to her girlfriend. Yeah, he coming home with him out smelling her beer and her girlfriend sides with her and says, yeah, that's how it is. I keep, I, I just make sure I let the next one Know when you finish up, just come over my. Please. And I'm. And I'm hearing this conversation. I'm saying that your child.
But they're not hearing with each other. You're not creating an environment. They demand to come home.
You say you want him here, he has to. But when he's there, what is the environment like for him to want to be there? Because if he does it to you, you don't want to come neither.
So then why do you think as a person, and I'm not just saying woman, but. Or man, but as an individual, that you create this toxic environment?
[00:15:24] Speaker C: You.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: You are unwilling to accept an apology.
Humble and boil them and let the apology go. Takes it. Take course and the corrective measures happen.
But then when he's there, you speak to the children.
If you have to send a message, you send it through the children.
Go and tell your father. So, so, so, so, so you need rather than you communicate as you probably normally do, but then complain when that man just get fed up and stop showing up.
That's the story. Done. Share some clarity.
[00:16:00] Speaker C: All right.
First thing I want to say to the man, and this is me speaking in the perspective of a woman, Devi.
What he could have done differently is he gets to his brethren.
Just give her a call, babe. I am at so and so. You know, when I'm here, it's gonna be hours.
Get that out of the way.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Did I not tell you that he. She already knew. He told her he stopped there.
[00:16:29] Speaker C: He.
[00:16:30] Speaker B: She called him and said, how far is he Said, well, I just stopped by. So and so. He did tell her that he stopped there.
So she was aware of that.
[00:16:39] Speaker C: Okay, she was aware of that. All right. Okay, fine.
Now, there are many persons that struggle with abandonment because we need to understand why is she angry?
What if she knows where he is?
Why is she so angry?
No, I don't know the couple. I don't have all the information, but I'm going to based on the information that I have.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:09] Speaker C: David, abandonment issues show up in many different ways.
So daddy might have left or mommy might have left.
So every time this person stay too long or take too long, you fear you're going to be abandoned.
And so this is your reaction towards that, whether man or woman.
Whether man or woman.
This is why I keep saying, can we dig into the real reasons for the behaviors? I think what we've been trying is trying to put a band aid over the behavior. So right now we're trying to fix her being mad. But what.
What is the real Cost.
I was talking to a friend of mine and he was sharing with me that he left the children at home. It was his time with the children. He left them at home. They're old enough. Well, there's an older one and he went to the supermarket. Going to the supermarket, kind of like a similar scenario. Run into somebody. It took a little bit longer. So the older daughter was calling him and Daddy, were you. You said you'd be back in an hour. You're not here. And so he said, he says whoa, calm down.
What is the real reason? What are you feeling?
And she says oh Daddy, I was afraid and I thought something happened to you.
She did not communicate that first.
She came on like daddy, you said you would have been back, you'd have been back in an hour. What is the real reason why this woman would have acted in the manner in which she did?
And I think that's something we need to start looking deeper.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: That's a very interesting perspective but the complaint is they have four kids and I have to deal with all the children, you understand? And he's saying but they're not babies. Matter of fact one is a teenager, two of them are 11.
And the 8 year old or 9 year old it's not like you had to clean. They know what they had to do. They could clean the room. They're okay. They're on vacation.
Well, at the time they're okay. So in his mind it's not like four babies are left here. But these are children.
[00:19:37] Speaker C: David. It had nothing to do with the man
[00:19:43] Speaker B: callers. I see you're calling me.
I am lobbying for dawn to be on every Tuesday with me going forward.
Dawn, will I.
[00:19:49] Speaker C: Well, you know we're gonna have to get some fight now. You know Kerry gon kill me Kerry.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Carrie, we gotta. We had a share now let's take a call because the topics are real and I'm getting some messages in some messages here. Dawn, we can't address all today.
[00:20:02] Speaker D: Hello, good morning, this is Prime Time by Dog Boys.
Tonight it's midnight.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: You need to understand that this is a balanced product and we speak on various topic not every day we're going to be speaking on politics and PNM and unc. We speak balance. We speak on health, education, social issues, current affairs. Did you not listen to the promo but prime time. This is prime time information.
One texter is saying back in the days I. I went by the vegetable spa stall to guy some to get some vegetables bounce up two partners and boy you talk about Lime. Remember him after Foiding our cell phone in them days. Hello, Good morning.
[00:20:40] Speaker A: Hey morning Davy.
[00:20:41] Speaker D: What's up bro?
[00:20:41] Speaker B: Good morning, sir.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: Davy, I call to commend you and I call a commended guest. Davy, I want to tell you something. You have belly because some of the things that you discussing, people who go on air to discuss it sometimes have to be very wary and very mindful that they're in a relationship. You understand what I trying to say?
So I want to commend you for bringing up the topics that you're bringing up as far as relationships is concerned and you know those the points that lady is bringing forward. I find she have a real in depth knowledge in terms of how it is as I'm wondering in closing if she experiences any difficulties where she has to apply her own knowledge to herself.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: I'll let's know well a lot before dawn jumping. Let me jump in for Dawn. I've been knowing dawn for a minute now. Don't pet grave now, Smith. Dawn has married under my under, under my nose. When I first met dawn, dawn was married all of a sudden. Don Gay HUSBAND Don Hammond Don married. She's a psychologist and the founder of a, of a podcast and a group known as Mentel. Dawn works with men. She spoke about it earlier this morning and she always starts her conversations edifying the public that she's not speaking from an uninformed position. She's speaking up from a position as a professional in the industry, having worked with men who tell her what is happening. And she has also worked with females who on the other side will give their sense of the story. So dawn has a very vast knowledge and perception of what both sides experience and why they experience it. She is a psychologist at heart and by profession qualified at that. And yes, she also spoke and I'm just speaking for you, dawn, because I
[00:22:31] Speaker C: like, I love it. Yeah, I love it.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: She has also cited her personal experiences that she went through. Even this morning she said, yes, I was hurt by men. She did say this morning. And yes, Williams, she does apply her own information in her own personal space. She has also admitted to that on air.
All right. And people like Carlos and they can testify to this woman's ability to carry on these conversations without fear or favor. And so so am I. I'm not a psychiatrist, but I speaking because I've experienced things. We just talk. Men just talk and we tell each other, but we can't tell the wife or the woman, but we tell each other, you know, hello, good morning. Quickly please, as we move on.
[00:23:15] Speaker D: Yes, Mr.
Very Good Topic with this, dawn. And I know Don with her experience and she always talk about her experience. Yes, and her experiences are teacher to many people and you learn so much from her. So keep on Good topic, Devi. And you know, this is the time where we always have balance. Some people in Trinidad here we must also balance on the mental capacity. If everybody starts being mental away, we have greater, greater nation and greater people. Have a good day.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: Thank you for that.
[00:23:44] Speaker E: Morning, Davy.
It don't have Chinese, Venezuelan, Hispanics and. And Indian ladies listening this program.
The person you're talking to there or the woman that speaking, is she, she only black woman. Black woman. Come on.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: Well, I don't. I mean, we, we, we.
Let's be real. Let me let dawn respond there, but quickly. I think persons of different races, they function differently.
All right. Traditionally as well. And I would let dawn respond to that with women before this one.
[00:24:21] Speaker C: And dawn, very, very interesting topic, but as a woman, I wonder if it is insecurity. I'm not sure. I'm just saying.
Have a great day, guys.
[00:24:33] Speaker B: Dawn, let's first respond quickly to the texter who talked that dawn always talking about black women. It have Hispanics, Indian, and let's talk about that quickly.
[00:24:45] Speaker C: Yes, and I'm sorry he feels that way.
I'm a black woman. I can't speak about another culture. You know, I could talk about Caribbean. And I think when I say I'm a black woman in Jamaica, it's. We are a melted pot, you know, so that's not to offend anybody.
I cannot come up here and speak to a Caucasian culture because I don't know. I don't know. I can't share lived experiences from that. So it's not a matter of, you know, singling out.
But I'm a black woman. I can speak in the space of what we have gone through, what we have experienced as a Caribbean, as a black Caribbean woman.
Do we have Indian people in the Caribbean? Do we have Chinese people in the Caribbean? Then it may be the very same for them, but our experiences are different. A white woman has not experienced slavery and the aftermath of slavery and how that is still showing up in our culture today subconsciously. Devi. So, you know, I'm sorry the caller feels that way, but this is in no way, shape or form trying to offend anyone. I can only speak from my lived experiences and from knowledge.
[00:26:16] Speaker B: All right, thank you for that. Hello, good morning. Quickly, please.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: Good morning. That was David. That question did not have any malice in it. And I want to thank the brother for Asking the question I want to ask Ms. Dunn. Good morning again.
In terms of honesty, you know, men are straightforward, but women have secrets. Women just go to the grave in the secrets. And in terms of solving problems in relationships, how much of a problem you think it is that they are not absolutely honest in terms of what they have in their heart and what really is the problem? Thank you very much. I'll listen.
[00:26:49] Speaker C: There's a man or woman. If two people can't be honest with each other, you are both living a lie.
[00:26:56] Speaker B: I was almost here.
[00:26:58] Speaker C: Love is a beautiful thing.
I've experienced it. I have seen it with other persons that I relate with. Love is a beautiful thing. There is no lie and deception in love. And people just really, really need to be real.
Just be real, you know, be very open with each other, both man and woman. And, you know, you know, he says men are straight talkers. And again, we're not fighting man or woman.
Devi, if you should hear some stories that men have done to women, some levels of the same deception, it would be unfathomed.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: Agreed, I agree. Because when you talk about women calling secrets, let's be honest, sir, this is not a man and a woman issue. This is a human issue and individuals, because there are men that carry secrets to the grave. They are men that lie.
I am not going to tell a tale.
I have lied to women.
We are. I have.
All right, so, I mean, I'm at a stage in my life now and an age where that is not a practice of something I do anymore. But in the past, in my younger years, of course, most men will tell you I lied to a woman. I did tell a woman lie, was a womanizer. You will get those conversations. And some of us, you know, men do carry secrets, so it's not a woman.
The question is who lie better?
Is a conversation that we can have who tells the better lie and not even the better liar who is able to conceive, seal the deceit better men or women? That could be a conversation for the future where stats and statistics can prove certain things. But, dawn, as we mentioned, we didn't see any prejudice in the question with the Hispanic woman, white woman, whatever.
[00:28:52] Speaker C: No, it's a valid question.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: Valid question.
[00:28:54] Speaker C: Of course it's a valid. And I commend the caller for, you know, for stating that it is a valid question.
It's just Devi, I have to speak to the culture that I know and I trust that he can understand that.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: Well, dawn, sad that I have to return you to the overdrive with Carrie v.
I do miss the conversations. But don't hesitate to visit me ever so often, you know, with a morning version of Mentel. But Mentel is heard on a Tuesday. It's a Tuesday. You all do the show every Tuesday?
[00:29:29] Speaker C: Yes, Every Tuesday at 3:23 20.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: Every Tuesday. So you're going to be on with Carrie this evening at 3:20.
[00:29:36] Speaker C: No, next week.
[00:29:38] Speaker B: Carrie Gill.
Donnie had to go on carry. We're doing so next week. Tuesday. Dawn returns. All right. We did have to wrap this conversation. It took it took on a Persona of its own starting from last Tuesday morning. And then when I did the show in the afternoon, I think we talked about it. Was it the afternoon or was the afternoon When I came back Tuesday afternoon, it was Tuesday afternoon. We started the conversation that went into the next morning. When I came to work, I had to deal with it as well because persons were calling me on it. So I take one final voice note on on my system and then we move.
[00:30:13] Speaker E: David, I know.
[00:30:16] Speaker B: Now we cool brethren.
[00:30:18] Speaker E: Jamaican men, you know, they're kind of different too, you know. Then there's one wear purse they want to bleach out itself. They want to look better than the woman. Sometimes they see the woman a little different, you know, they kind of see about themselves more than any woman.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: All right. Thank you very much, caller. Dawn thank you so much, dawn, for chatting with me in another version of Mentel. And Carrie V. She's back with you next week, Tuesday.
Have a good one, Dawn. We'll talk again soon. See you, too.
[00:30:42] Speaker C: Bye bye.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: David, you're tuned into the all new freedom 106.5, 106.5.
