Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The best insight, instant feedback, accountability. The all new Talk Radio Freedom 106.5, 22 minutes after 7 o' clock. Owen and Davey in your company until 9 o' clock this morning. And we are getting set to chat with the President of the Chamber of Commerce, Coover Point Lisa's. We have Dhioraj Mahes on the line on zoom here with us this morning. Mr. Mahes, good morning to you.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Yes, good morning. Good morning. Good morning, Trinidad and Tobago.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Well, you are chatting here with David Murray and Owen Gordon.
As we commence with our conversation this morning, we kick things off with the Chamber's perspective when it relates to the business community and how you all are viewing the cost cutting measures being undertaken here by the government of Trinidad and Tobago at this time.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Yes, morning again.
So we have looked at these measures and it's a, it's a step in the right direction because you know, you could channel funds that as the Prime Minister would have mentioned and we have seen any media, you can channel those funds elsewhere at this point in time. Because the key note here is that cost cutting and not stopping, so it seems to be some temporary measures, whereas you can utilize these funds in different areas, you know, to get other measures that you would like to implement going. So we see it as a good initiative and you know, I don't think it's going to have any impact on where the cost cutting has been done.
[00:01:55] Speaker C: Where would you like to see? Good morning, Mr. Mahes, this is Oren Gordon. Where would you like to see the funds reallocated?
[00:02:04] Speaker B: I think that our main issue as we see it here is the crime initiative and I think that that was mentioned that funds are going to be channeled into those areas and of course trying to get some level of stimulation into the economy, businesses and so on need to move forward, especially the SMEs, where as the chambers we Kuva Point Lisa's Chamber, our membership, you know, requires these kinds of stimulation and not just the kuvapoint Lisa's Chamber, but chambers across the country.
We try to be in collaboration and have discussion with the other chambers, such as Ashokwana's, Faizabad, Rima Business association and so on. So it's really to get some level of stimulation going and, you know, to try to get these, these small businesses up and running in a better format than they are now.
[00:03:08] Speaker C: Yeah, it's interesting that you spoke of crime number one and you spoke of collaboration with the other chambers because one thing that's been noticeable over recent years is that the chambers, Chaguanas, the Southern Chambers, the Trinidad and Tobago Chamber of Commerce, they have increasingly sounded off over crime and this is something that their membership is filtering back to them as a really serious concern.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: Yes, yes, definitely. Because, I mean, it has an impact. It has a very serious impact, in fact, because it's not just the activity of crime itself, but how it affects the business. Because we would have seen a lot of businesses closing earlier.
There are some businesses that, I mean, even if you want to expand into other areas and provide some additional services to the community, you may not want to because you are seen as some kind of, you know, a target.
If you show growth, then you become, you know, you're being looked at and so on. So the businesses themselves may not even want to get into additional business because of those activities and those being targeted or being looked at. So by curbing crime itself, by moving drastically to get this area dealt with, you may very well have a level of stimulation for business right there without, as they say, without putting out much money.
Low hanging fruits, as we like to call it.
[00:05:01] Speaker C: How about the high hanging fruit? How else would you like to see the business stimulated and grown?
[00:05:09] Speaker B: There are areas, for example the export industry. And we know we have a vibrant manufacturing export industry in this country.
[00:05:18] Speaker C: Indeed you do. Yes.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: We need to move to. And there have been methods to do this, but there needs to be a bigger outreach.
There are a lot of small businesses who really has the potential, but you need to give them the channels, the opportunities and using areas such as those government agencies like export, tt, Investiti and so on. And there are a lot of programs out there. Yes, but it's getting it across to the smaller businesses and so on and allowing them to exploit those areas so they themselves can grow, earn foreign exchange, which is a critical issue as well these days.
[00:06:11] Speaker C: It is an issue of recurring concern.
You mentioned small business.
What size of business are we talking about? And if I could just add a writer to that question.
The previous MP for Mayaro Rushton Parade had said that one of the things that the new government should focus on is growing small businesses and helping small businesses to grow. When you say small, what do you mean a cottage industry kind of thing, Kitchen table kind of business? What do you mean by small business?
Right.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: So I mean small can be anything from those cottage industries. Yes, five to more people.
Some businesses would have. And we have to take this measure from, you know, we experienced the COVID 19 and businesses might be operating at a smaller scale, meaning from home and so on, a lot of online business and things like that. So Small meaning I would say from five persons, but it could be less because you have persons who are doing how to say retail or providing services whereby they bring in items that can supply certain service sectors.
[00:07:32] Speaker C: Basically people who don't have a shop front.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: You have. Yes, that is. And that again as a cost saving measure, some businesses would have acclimatized to that during the the or the aftermath of COVID in trying to keep themselves afloat. So yes, and then we have things like the creative industries, the craft industries and those, those type of businesses. Now yes, we, we can help or put those business out, but we need to move and further develop manufacturing for export as well as local consumption. Because import substitute is an area that should be looked at as well. Because again, you can save foreign exchange by some level of import substitute.
[00:08:23] Speaker A: You know, when we look at small businesses and Owen make a very good point in terms of the size, you know, and I want to clear the issue on that very clear.
What in your respective opinion connotates a small bit business. Let's be very clear. I want the man in the taxi can understand and relate to what we are asking this morning.
[00:08:45] Speaker B: Right.
So as I was calling a figure there and I'm saying small in terms of employees.
But you. Small businesses can even go up to 25, 30 people because there are retail industries there. Let's just say industry that is doing some level of packaging and things like that.
Those can also be considered small business because they are providing a level of intermediate service to the medium business, to the larger manufacturing firms and so on.
So small can vary in terms of the industry.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: And I respect that. I think government needs to be very clear on the mandate as to the maximum in terms of what could be classified as a small.
And from that you move on to medium. Because one, you know, I think the lines are blurred. It's not clear as to what is a small or medium business enterprise. We understand what can be considered as a large conglomerate. But to say small to medium, I think that clarity. There are blurred lines there. And that's why I asked the question from a Chamber's perspective as the president, what you all in your area, in your neck of the woods would classify as a small business. Now there are new laws coming in or on the agenda promised in our last electoral campaign by especially the current government here in terms of stand your ground laws.
How does the Chamber I mean we have businesses we have seen in the over the last eight years, the data has shown how many businesses business owners were attacked, robbed and in some instances murdered. In this country. And here it is, our current Prime Minister and her government is promising to bring legislation to Parliament to stand your ground. What is the Chamber's perspective on that?
[00:10:48] Speaker C: And also easier. Sorry to interrupt, David. And also easier facilitation of procurement of firearms.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Of firearms. What is the Chamber's perspective?
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Yes. So that as well, we see as a good initiative.
It's something that can really provide a level of comfort to the. To the business community and to the population at large. Obviously, there has to be control measures in place because.
[00:11:17] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: You know, and, and I am very certain, because there's a lot of legal persons in the government, especially in this, in this particular government.
[00:11:30] Speaker C: Yeah, there are lots of lawyers in the government.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: I am sure that they would not go out there without having all of these consultations and having proper guidelines in place, because there may be. I'm not a legal expert, but like I said, stand your ground requires certain legal directives and things like that. So it is a good initiative.
We look forward to it in terms of relaxing the FUL procedures and so on. That is definitely and absolutely needed because we see it all the time that persons are taking eight and 10 years and things like that.
Why should we in 2025 be having any measure, any system, whether it's FUL or what, to take years or even months to process? We have all these systems that are in place. Let us activate them and have them working.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: So is it that you're saying fast tracking fuels, do you think that putting these weapons in the hands of business owners more readily, that will bring about a measure of safety and security? Wouldn't that, in your respective opinion, cause more problems? Because it's not as hard as cut and dry as one may think. Remember, when you shoot someone or take someone's life during a home invasion or some robbery, you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that your immediate life or the life of somebody else was in danger. So one has to ask, putting the firearm in the hands of someone with. With mediocre checks such as your mental health, so you don't have no papers from St. Ann's you're mentally stable, as it were. You know, there have been no triggers in the past. You have no criminal records. And we give you. We give you a firearm.
What safety measures can one derive from having that firearm? Because if something goes awry, we know the rhetoric that follows thereafter, the long drawn out process the person. So when the person's firearm is seized by police officers during the investigation, you're without the firearm still. So that's a one time, one off protection. Then you see, these are things that we have to look at. And I'm asking you this morning, as the chamber president, do you all feel safer because you are an ful holder.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Right now?
Remember, as you pointed out there, there are already procedures in place.
They are already procedures. And while it may, it may seem not adequate in some person's views, a lot of what, what is done is fairly stringent.
But remember, they are saying that this, these processes are going to be reviewed and there's a need to review because putting a weapon in anybody's hand is a dangerous thing. Yes.
However, if you review and the measures that are already there, they may need to improve or tweak those measures. Yes. But part of the key in that is training, training and training because you cannot put these, these are very, very, how to say it, I mean, very dangerous.
But training is key.
And awareness because not only handling a fire, but also awareness and the legal aspect of it in terms of what the law requires, all of these things. So it is not just, as you see a cut and dry to just open the door and say here, have a firearm. There's a whole lot of background to take place.
So persons who think that, I mean, it's just going to happen, I don't think that that is, that is going to happen. I don't think that that is what is meant by what the government is saying. All they're saying is that, listen, we are going to review this whole thing, we're going to make it more accessible and so on. But obviously stringent procedural methods, training, awareness and so on will be the key to rule this out.
[00:16:00] Speaker C: You took the words out of my mouth with respect to training.
I've been exposed to firearms. I'm not going to get into how and where and when. But this is in the course of doing reporting. And one, it's a big step to point a lethal weapon at somebody and then make a decision to fire that. But I'm not going to belabor the point because I think that you, you, you made, you made some excellent points with respect to the responsibility that comes with owning and operating a firearm and some of the checks and balances that are going to have to be put in before people are able to procure this. But just to, to put a bow on this particular part of the discussion, you've made the point that it's your membership of all sizes have expressed concern about being targeted, have expressed concern about their safety.
They see the need for the issuing of firearms licenses to be expedited, and they see the need in the first place to get more firearms to protect themselves.
I want to pivot to other aspects of your, of the chambers operation. You advocate for things like tax breaks, like the swifter movement of goods off of the ports.
Are these initiatives that you're going to be banging down the government's door about?
[00:17:47] Speaker B: Absolutely.
And just as we move on, and I know we have a time limit and so on, just to add one thing with regards to the last point on the FUS and so on, obviously there has to be a lot of collaboration with the police service, the various security arms and so on, because it requires that level of, you know, guidance and all that goes with it. So we. I'll just say that to close that point with regards to goods and plans, we need to move.
We need to move on this. Yes.
Because one of the key aspects of this is our customs reform.
And while we note that there are some changes that the government would like to make, we look forward to those changes. We look forward to the strengthening of the bir, as was recently indicated.
And of course, we look forward to customs reform. Customs reform is key. We have a lot of, you know, challenges. Businesses have reported, membership have reported back with a lot of challenges that comes with it. And we recognize that there's a lot of work being done in the background. The service itself, the customs would really put forward things that they're trying to do. There are a lot of changes that have been happening in the area. But in order to further modernize, we are saying that there has to be a deep dive into this.
Not just on the surface, but the Customs act itself.
It is a bit outdated. You need to look at it to see where changes can be made to suit what is happening in today's economy, in today's not only internal but external factors in terms of shipping and logistics and how we could satisfy the local and business community, but within the law of what customs require as well.
[00:20:06] Speaker A: All right, Mr. President. Okay, go ahead, continue.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: Yeah, so, so that, that, that level of reform, digitalization and so on. And we know that there are moves to get into these areas, but we need to really move a little faster to get those things in place because there is a lot of challenging business. I mean, you can, if you, if you go out there and you speak to businesses, and a lot of businesses may not want to really comment on the air and put themselves out into, into, you know, the forum. But the fact is there are challenges. There are challenges related to these areas. And I say the Custom area because in order to get access to the cargo to clear from the ports and so on, those are the first stages. And if you have issues and challenges there, you would not be able to get to the point of clearance.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: So have the Chamber of Commerce sought any sort of audience with the incoming Trade and Industry Minister to get at least to bring forward some of these recommendations that you're, you're reiterating on?
[00:21:22] Speaker B: Yes. And, and, and in the, in the, just to add previously we would have sent and we would have advocated for these things.
I would have put a lot of statements out in the media regarding this. And yes, we are in process of, and we have started reaching out to the ministers that are connected with trade, trade and tourism.
Also we are looking at the other ministers who we believe will have an influence and can add some assistance to the business community in terms of for example the transport and finance.
We understand that there's some shifting around of some of the, the entities, for example customs and so on. So we just really looking at where these entities are going to and then we move to get the audience and we understand that there's a transition period here and we are trying our best to work with all these transitions.
We know it will take, you know, sometime a couple of weeks and so on. So we are trying to work with that.
[00:22:38] Speaker C: And as we wind down Mr. Mahaes, that's a point well made. You must like the fact that Mr. Maharaj is one of your own and coming to take over trade and industry. But I can't let an interview with you pass without asking you about the refinery.
How critical is Tobago gets that back up and operational and whether or not it's feasible. And whether or not it's feasible.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Yeah, good. So we think it's an important step and as you speak about feasibility, obviously the due diligence would be done and it may have already been done because it is not something that you will come in and just look at and see this is what is going to happen. I am fairly certain that due diligence would have already been in the making. And it's something that is important is not just about employment but rather about the refinery itself, the operations and processing of the fuel of the products and earning foreign exchange and so on as well.
[00:23:50] Speaker A: All right. Well with that being said this morning.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: I just, if you, if you go.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Ahead, go ahead quickly.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: I just wanted to add to not just not the refinery, but just a small part to let you know that we are actively involved as the Cuvo Chamber in putting forward things or programs or membership. And if you don't mind, I'll just say it.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: Go ahead.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: So we have an up and coming tax and OPR seminar, including information on the Special Economic Zone. We have speakers coming from those areas on May 21 and we are partnering with different entities.
We are speaking to logistics and Supply chain Expo.
We are doing, we're speaking to the Supermarket Association.
These are just some of the things in the background and for the membership and the community that we are moving forward with while we engage the government, the government ministries and so on, we are not just standing by and saying we are with. We are doing what we can in the background as well.
[00:25:02] Speaker C: I'm very tempted to ask Davy whether we should invoice you for that little commercial pitch you did, Mr. Mahes. But that's just, I'm just kidding.
That's very essential information. And as I toss to Davy, best of luck with your activities going forward.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: And have yourself a great and wonderful day.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: And thank you. Thank you all for having me having the Coover Point Visas Chamber on board. We remain, as I like to say, in partnership with you all and the media in general. And we are here to work in a collaborative effort with the government, the ministries or our other chambers to take this country forward.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: And I thank you for that. I'm out of time, more or less. But I wanted to ask you, how difficult was it with you with the Ministry Chamber, rather in engaging the former Trade Minister in terms of getting new initiatives on the ground for the Couva Point, Lisa's Chamber, how engaging was that previous administration.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: We would have had?
It was a good engagement.
We had a reasonable bit of feedback and so on from the previous minister and we.
[00:26:24] Speaker C: This was Paula Gopi's coon.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes, yes. All right.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Mahes. And as I said, all the best. I do keep us informed.
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